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maynard g krebs
01-05-2013, 09:50 PM
Is what we saw tonight in a tough road game against a quality team. Only Dower and Stockton with significant minutes off the bench. Edi deep in the doghouse, and Hart playing starter's minutes.

Much has been made of GU's depth, and rightly so imo. Wondering if people think we'll see more of the same against good teams and at tourney time. Dranginis and Edi are understandable imo. Four minutes for Karnowski is a head-scratcher. And I think this team will need a contribution from Edi at tourney time.

Oregonzagnut
01-05-2013, 09:57 PM
I must say I didn't like this rotation back when Few started it at WSU and against Illinois. We had to get some kinks out and Kelly has gotten even better since then. But without Kelly, I still don't like it that much. Dower gets 15 minutes and flounders while Karno plays decent and holds his own. Where is Karno failing or where is Dower succeeding? I still don't fully get the rotation and not using our depth more. But we won, and so I shouldn't look back so much I guess.

Dower 15 minutes.
Karno 4 minutes? Am I missing something?

Baldwinzag
01-05-2013, 09:59 PM
more Karnowski please.

gotta think game by game to win Conference Titles, yet honestly, we could go 8-6 in the rest of the way and arguably make the Dance, so we should start thinking about rotations...well, long-term...

tonight's 7-man rotation isn't going to cut it past 2nd Round. only time this season we've gone just 7 deep, yet it was needed, that said...

We need guys such as Karnowski, Guy-Landry, Dranginis to provide meaningful contributions in limited minutes off the bench, but just 4 minutes for the "best Freshman in the Country" -- stated by ESPN...probably isn't the best idea down the road or in future match-ups.

rijman
01-05-2013, 10:09 PM
I'd like to see more Karnowski too, but I don't want to see less KO, who played 35 minutes tonight.

1000th post!

Don't worry, I still have a lot more useless information to dispense.

HenneZag
01-05-2013, 10:10 PM
Yeah bench was shortened tonight for sure. Edi did come in the game for a very short stent. I hate to say it, but he has not had any real impact other then the first cpl games of the season. Hart has my nod to start at the 3, and I would rather see KD at this point over EDI. KD needs to gain some confidence, his potential is evident.

Karn didn't get many minutes either, kinda hard to get minutes when KO/EH/SD are doing their thing.

It's tough to distribute minutes with this depth in a tight game. You just go with what's working, and our veteran guys were doing just that. I am very eager to see more KD and Karn...these our the 2 guys that I believe will be difference makers down the stretch.

Kiddwell
01-05-2013, 10:12 PM
Wish Dranginis would look for his shot more often. He needs to be reminded that he scored 30 in a game recently. He's got a nice floater (runner) around the basket.

:]

UberZagFan
01-06-2013, 12:20 AM
Oh, here's where's the 8th man thread. Uber will just agree that tonight's rotation will not cut it come March.

Reborn
01-06-2013, 09:48 AM
Mark Few in past years seems to prefer a 8 man rotation when it comes to the tougher games, including the NCAA tournament. It should be noted that most teams do that. The standard is a 7 or 8 man rotation. The Zags do have a good bench and so in games that are somewhat easier (pepperdine) you should see Few playing his bench more.

LIke many of you I was very surprised to see how many minutes Few gave to Dower last night. I think you all know how I feel about Sam. IMHO he is not as good as PK. PK defends better and helps the team on defense more and is a good rebounder.

What I don't get is playing Elias Harris 26 minutes. He wasn't in foul trouble last night and set there on the bench for a pretty long period in the second half. He came back in and was totally ineffective down the stretch. That was Few's biggest mistake last night I would say. If Few extinguises Elias' fire out of him, in the long run it will be a mistake, imo.

HillBillyZag
01-06-2013, 11:22 AM
As much as as I love Elias, I have to think that he has an injury or physical ailment that he has just learned to play through? Notice that at times he can be brilliant?, but sometimes just disappears? Then again, I've also appreciated the steadiness and leadership he has displayed thus far, another glue guy, in his own way.

Baseline
01-06-2013, 11:26 AM
When Harris takes a rest, Kelly should go to the 4 and Karno take the 5, this will give a look at next years most likely usage.
When Kelly takes a break, Karno again.

Sam's defense and lack of hustle should should keep him on the bench until these characteristics change. Sam could be very good, but he just seems to want to shoot and nothing else.

ValencyLovesZagsInAtlanta
01-06-2013, 11:49 AM
Mark Few in past years seems to prefer a 8 man rotation when it comes to the tougher games, including the NCAA tournament. It should be noted that most teams do that. The standard is a 7 or 8 man rotation. The Zags do have a good bench and so in games that are somewhat easier (pepperdine) you should see Few playing his bench more.

LIke many of you I was very surprised to see how many minutes Few gave to Dower last night. I think you all know how I feel about Sam. IMHO he is not as good as PK. PK defends better and helps the team on defense more and is a good rebounder.

What I don't get is playing Elias Harris 26 minutes. He wasn't in foul trouble last night and set there on the bench for a pretty long period in the second half. He came back in and was totally ineffective down the stretch. That was Few's biggest mistake last night I would say. If Few extinguises Elias' fire out of him, in the long run it will be a mistake, imo.

Well in all fairness to coach Few he probably decided to play Sam because last year he was player of the game against SCU both at the Kennel and at SCU last year. His #'s were 17 pts, 6 rebs @ the Kennel and 18 pts, 7 rebs on the road at SCU. Both wins of course. So history may have dictated some of his decision making based on match ups. Not so unreasonable especially considering Sam will have to be a key contributor for Gonzaga to reach the top of the mountain. PK also needs to become an indispensable piece to this championship puzzle. We have room for more growth and that is the exciting thing about this team.

We are off to an amazing start to the season and Kelly Olynyk if he continues to play unselfish while putting up these type of #'s should start to be considered for some National Player of the Year awards such as Associated Press National Player of the Year, NABC Player of the Year and Naismith. It is real early though and Gonzaga will have to keep winning for individual awards to pile up for the whole team including coach Few.

All JMHO...

Have a blessed day!

Val

Zag Man
01-06-2013, 03:23 PM
We are off to an amazing start to the season and Kelly Olynyk if he continues to play unselfish while putting up these type of #'s should start to be considered for some National Player of the Year awards such as Associated Press National Player of the Year, NABC Player of the Year and Naismith. It is real early though and Gonzaga will have to keep winning for individual awards to pile up for the whole team including coach Few.

All JMHO...



Kelly’s transformation has been nothing short of amazing. I had thought the red-shirt year would be beneficial for him, but I really am blown away by the player he has become! People are talking about WCC Player of the Year and even All-American awards, which would have been unheard of after Kelly’s sophomore year. Right at this time, I believe he is the WCC Player of the Year and, if he stays another year at Gonzaga, I believe he would be a preseason All-American candidate. Let’s give all the credit to Kelly for his willingness to change and his hard work to become the great player he has become!

Some people on this post have been hard on Elias and Sam Dower. Last night, I thought Elias Harris was terrific and has become a tremendous team player. Elias rebounds so well and his passing into the post is a thing of beauty. His play has made Kelly a much better player. They seem so effective and unstoppable when they are both on the court. I also thought Sam Dower played beautifully as well. Sam rebounded and passed the ball very well last night. He can come into the game for either Kelly or Elias and is effective at either position. Sam has such a sweet shot and he’s become a great free throw shooter. In fact, I believe all of our post players are super at the charity stripe! I was surprised that they did not get the ball to Kelly or Elias at the end of the game, since both of them are “money” at the line!

Congrats to the team for a great win! It’s really been great fun for Zag fans throughout the country watching the kids play this season!

Oregonzagnut
01-06-2013, 03:56 PM
Well in all fairness to coach Few he probably decided to play Sam because last year he was player of the game against SCU both at the Kennel and at SCU last year. His #'s were 17 pts, 6 rebs @ the Kennel and 18 pts, 7 rebs on the road at SCU. Both wins of course. So history may have dictated some of his decision making based on match ups. Not so unreasonable especially considering Sam will have to be a key contributor for Gonzaga to reach the top of the mountain.

Good perspective on that history Val. Not only has Sam done well against SCU in the past but it is possible Few assumes Sam will snap out of his shell and find that sweet smooth shooting touch we all have seen in him. It is in there somewhere and he has to find it again.

I know one thing, although Few must cut minutes and play the best performers, he will never give up on anyone. I also agree with Val that Dower (and also Edi) must find his game because they will be needed for "Gonzaga to reach the top of the mountain". Our wing (3 spot) depth is possibly our biggest weakness and it also translates to a window of opportunity for our opponents in breaking our defense and getting to the hoop.

Given the Illinois experience/lesson, I am more confident that Few and our team have found a way to collectively handle that elite dominant back court. And that is the rotations we are seeing e.g WSU, Illinois, OK St and SCU. We cant afford to have Dower and Edi not show up anymore. IMO, Kelly can play either the 3-4-or 5 spots with success. This is a match-up nightmare for our opposition and we have 6-7 different teams we can throw out there and win with.

:horse: I still am waiting to see Karno, Kelly, Harris, Hart and Bell out there for our best athletic and all-defensive team IMO.

maynard g krebs
01-06-2013, 04:12 PM
LIke many of you I was very surprised to see how many minutes Few gave to Dower last night. I think you all know how I feel about Sam. IMHO he is not as good as PK. PK defends better and helps the team on defense more and is a good rebounder.



PK is statistically a poor rebounder for a huge guy; 2.6 in 12.9 minutes. Sam is slightly better; 3.9 in 18.1.

Neither is good there; both well behind KO and EH. But one rebound every 5 minutes is lousy for a guy PK's size.

Reborn
01-06-2013, 04:55 PM
thanks for your perspectives. They make sense.

bostonzagfan
01-06-2013, 07:39 PM
both pk and dower need some time. pk to develop, sam to find his groove.

EDIT: would also like to see KD get some time in there to develop, and i don't just mean in blowouts. give him a short 4-5 minute stint in the first half. would give gary/hart fresh legs in second half, and give kd meaningful experience when outcome is not already decided.

TheBunnieRancher
01-06-2013, 11:35 PM
Kelly showed some of this potential playing for the Canadian National Team during past summers (ie - 19 points 12 rebounds against Argentina I believe). I wonder if we did not see much from Kelly his first two seasons because he was committed to playing the part of a role player and was not counted on as one of the main scoring options. I know he needed to adjust to his sudden growth but I did wonder what would happen once he became a primary offensive weapon for this team. In the past, others have remarked that he had good rebound and points per minutes averages during his earlier seasons.