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bballbeachbum
12-31-2012, 05:28 PM
serious dagger, after clanging his previous 2 tries from that same spot and generally struggling all night, getting rolled by his own teammate and going down for a spell.......

then winning time arrives and he delivers a dagger again. Let out the primal scream after that one baby!

ZagLawGrad
12-31-2012, 05:30 PM
Super shot! Especially after that earlier injury scare

Bocco
12-31-2012, 05:30 PM
5 fist pumps

Zagdawg
12-31-2012, 05:31 PM
Both kids are gamers...... We have a great set of guards at Gonzaga.

ZagMan in Philly
12-31-2012, 05:32 PM
:000tens:
i am speechless

VinnyZag
12-31-2012, 05:32 PM
I especially appreciated that after Fraschilla spent the whole game blathering on about how Smart "makes winning plays." Bell's 3 and Pangos' FTs were the winning plays. Smart's missed FT, not so much.

CamarilloZag
12-31-2012, 05:35 PM
For Bell to come back and take that shot without hesitation and with confidence after missing the two prior was huge! Big cojones, my friend!

Reborn
12-31-2012, 05:35 PM
serious dagger, after clanging his previous 2 tries from that same spot and generally struggling all night, getting rolled by his own teammate and going down for a spell.......

Then winning time arrives and he delivers a dagger again. Let out the primal scream after that one baby!

primal scream!!!! Yeah baby

I love that kind of a confident game winner. And to see Smart miss those two free throws at the end of the game was frosting on the cake.

bballbeachbum
12-31-2012, 05:39 PM
primal scream!!!! Yeah baby

like that!

man what a great feeling :)

BTB
12-31-2012, 05:53 PM
I was thinking the same thing, short memory on this kid!

Also, amazing how everyone all of the sudden thinks we have amazing guards, seems it was less than a week ago that our guards were our Achilles heel...

TacomaZAG
12-31-2012, 05:55 PM
Both GBJ and KP have that confidence to take the BIG shot, regardless of what has happened previously. It seemed to me GBJ's knee was a little stiff when he re-entered the game (I was so glad to see him in there, I thought he blew his knee out) but it loosened up as he continued.

Hart's screen really opened GNJ up for that 3, he always does the little things that lead to victory.

Huge win...........

Go ZAGS

Zag4Hire
12-31-2012, 05:55 PM
I am not kidding and it is easy to see in hindsight, when I saw GBJ load up for that 3 ball, I had the fist pump ready and I unleashed a yell that woke up the ville. That victory cigar tasted very sweet. GBJ is a gamer. Put it in stone.

MDABE80
12-31-2012, 05:58 PM
I was thinking the same thing, short memory on this kid!

Also, amazing how everyone all of the sudden thinks we have amazing guards, seems it was less than a week ago that our guards were our Achilles heel...

NONSENSE..........where'd you get this??/ Struggles with shooting but nobody claimed they were terrible. Cmon......

teacher56
12-31-2012, 06:04 PM
Fraschilla was really getting on my nerves by constantly telling the TV audience how inadequate and small our guards are. It was especially sweet to know he is eating crow about now!
Just saying.

BIG WIN...me happy!

TheGonzagaFactor
12-31-2012, 06:12 PM
Fraschilla was really getting on my nerves by constantly telling the TV audience how inadequate and small our guards are. It was especially sweet to know he is eating crow about now!
Just saying.

BIG WIN...me happy!

Coming into the game he had every right to be skeptical. Our guards showed him and everyone else that they are the real deal.

maynard g krebs
12-31-2012, 06:12 PM
Fraschilla was really getting on my nerves by constantly telling the TV audience how inadequate and small our guards are. It was especially sweet to know he is eating crow about now!
Just saying.

BIG WIN...me happy!

Guess you missed the part where he said Stocks, Bell, KP, Harris and KO might be the Zags' best lineup. He didn't say inadequate; you are putting words in his mouth.

I loved hearing that after all the crap I have seen on this board criticizing the 3 guard grouping. It gives up something on D at times, but creates space by putting 2 great shooters on the wings, and then you have 3 good to great passers to get the ball to the bigs on the interior. Not to mention the great interior passing we're seeing btw KO and EH when nobody's able to double/triple team the post.

Big guards with NBA athleticism are this team's achilles heel, but only if they are good 3 pt shooters like those of Illinois. The inside size and depth is good enough to help with slashers who shoot poorly.

Reborn
12-31-2012, 06:14 PM
NONSENSE..........where'd you get this??/ Struggles with shooting but nobody claimed they were terrible. Cmon......

Thanks for posting MDABE: Everyone loves our guards, but yes there was concern with our outside shooting. But as most who responded to that thread said, the guys will work it out. I'm sure Kelly spent time shooting from the 3 pt line during the break. Like is said, "He's a gym rat." Wish Elias would spend some time in the gym working on his outside shot. He is much, much much better from the outside. Something is wrong with his mechanics.

Mantua
12-31-2012, 06:19 PM
Fraschilla was really getting on my nerves by constantly telling the TV audience how inadequate and small our guards are. It was especially sweet to know he is eating crow about now!
Just saying.

BIG WIN...me happy!

No kidding! No one at ESPN was showing enthusiasm for a Zag win going into this game. The announcers seemed hungry for an upset.

Hoopaholic
12-31-2012, 06:20 PM
Constantly talked up smart as nba worthy. Yet pango stat line almost identical and he hit his clutch free throws

maynard g krebs
12-31-2012, 06:21 PM
Thanks for posting MDABE: Everyone loves our guards, but yes there was concern with our outside shooting. But as most who responded to that thread said, the guys will work it out. I'm sure Kelly spent time shooting from the 3 pt line during the break. Like is said, "He's a gym rat." Wish Elias would spend some time in the gym working on his outside shot. He is much, much much better from the outside. Something is wrong with his mechanics.

In the KSU game, EH passed up an open 3 just right of the top of the key when they dared him to shoot. Looked afraid to miss. I think he's lost confidence in the shot. Hope he can get it back, as he's always been a good shooter when open. He's become one dimensional, and defenses are laying back waiting for him to drive, leading to the low fg%'s the last couple games.

Baseline
12-31-2012, 06:23 PM
Stockton was solid on his play and the big guards didn't abuse him, he is very solid.
Dowers defense is scary bad, he doesn't move, its like he is glued to a spot.

Karno needs to start working the boards.

The key guys are great, but we need to get better output from the bench to be top ten.

jazzdelmar
12-31-2012, 06:23 PM
not EH's better games.....IMO, Smart is a talent but nowhere near Paul or Jackson in terms of hops and IQ....

Crusader Rick
12-31-2012, 06:24 PM
Anyone who would even begin to say Fraschilla is anti-Zag hasn't paid much attention the past five years or so. He is the biggest Zag homer out there.

Zag365
12-31-2012, 06:32 PM
Anyone who would even begin to say Fraschilla is anti-Zag hasn't paid much attention the past five years or so. He is the biggest Zag homer out there.

FF loves the Zags. I didn't hear much of today's broadcast, but my guess is that he is such a known Zag-fan that he used every opportunity to give credit to OSU so he wouldn't sound biased to national audience.

SteelZag
12-31-2012, 06:59 PM
Anyone who would even begin to say Fraschilla is anti-Zag hasn't paid much attention the past five years or so. He is the biggest Zag homer out there.

I have to agree. He is just pointing out some areas where the Zags could improve. Instead of trying to deny a shot with help defense maybe they would be better off just trying to guard a proven 3 pt shooter like Forte.

Reborn
12-31-2012, 11:25 PM
I feel that this thread should stay on the first page for a few days because it was one of the really big 3 pt shots by a Zag. The Zags were down by one with like 40 seconds to go in the game. Surely this was a possession the Zags needed to score. Would they drive to the basket and try to get fouled since they were shooting so well from the line? Surely, they would go into Kelly and try to get him another bucket or two foul shots. If not Kelly,then Kevin would try to pull out another hat trick like he did in WASU.

Kevin set up to drive off the pick and roll and began dribbling toward the basket. I was sure he was going to try something special. Suddenly, he flips the ball across his left shoulder to HIS BROTHER who he knew would be there waiting for it. As I saw the ball moving toward Bell, I was pretty tense. I could see he was wide open, but he had just missed three straight shots REALLY BAD. He would surely pass to someone else. But NO. He sets his feet and lifts up into the air and releases the ball and it's ALL NET...And I'm now yelling like a crazy man....I knew you could. I knew you could. I new you could. Oh MY God!!!

But there are still a dozen seconds. Bell's shot to me will never stand by itself, but I'll always see it with the next play by Ok State. Their player of the game, Smart (the kid Few coached in the summer) would surely win the game for Ok State. Smart sets up a pick and roll and the surely Smart gets a match up with Kelly Olynyk one on one. Smart drives to the basket and is fouled by Kelly, who fouls out. Smart steps to the line and misses both free throws. UNBELIEVABLE!!! Do you believe in miracles? Hell yes!!!

Go Zags!!!

SteelZag
01-01-2013, 08:54 AM
Trying to keep on front page.

Birddog
01-01-2013, 09:03 AM
All three of those shots were about 10 feet from where I was seated. When he launched the 3rd one I knew it was in.

Reborn
01-01-2013, 09:38 AM
Birddog! Could you give us a synopsis of the game last night? What was it like being inside that beautiful arena? What were the fans like. What was that game like in person? Were you part of the Zag group I could see sitting behind the team's bench? There was really a lot of orange in that arena.

NotoriousZ
01-01-2013, 09:47 AM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5t5CYruLK5Y/Tc7xS9sVD5I/AAAAAAAAA14/kAKPJ1igFF0/s1600/work.509623.3.flat%252C550x550%252C075%252Cf.jump-for-joy.jpg

bostonzagfan
01-01-2013, 09:49 AM
i'm not worried about gary anymore. not because he made the shot, but because he let it rip with no hesitation.

Reborn
01-01-2013, 09:52 AM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5t5CYruLK5Y/Tc7xS9sVD5I/AAAAAAAAA14/kAKPJ1igFF0/s1600/work.509623.3.flat%252C550x550%252C075%252Cf.jump-for-joy.jpg

Wow! Nice picture. I feel it too. Mmmmmmmm. How sweet it is!

TacomaZAG
01-01-2013, 05:09 PM
Maynard - I just re-watched the 2nd half and, for the record, Fraschilla did not say that the 3-guard grouping (Munchkin Lineup) was the Zags best line-up, or words to that affect. Actually, his broadcast partner said it and Fraschilla half-heartedly agreed, with the immediate qualifier that defense suffers from the lack of size with that lineup.

Also, for the record, we were up 6 (54-48) when the Munchkin Lineup (KP, GBJ, and Stocks) was inserted at the 9:45 mark of the 2nd half. When Stocks went out at the 7:06 mark the score was tied (56-56). So, not only did the defense suffer, again, with the Munchkin Lineup, the offense was poor as well (2 points in over 2-1/2 minutes).

It's a bad line-up, way too many negatives and very few, if any, positives IMHO. This lineup will be OK against the lower tier of the WCC but will continue to get destroyed against good teams.

As usual, it's all about March for the ZAGS, and that line-up will get destroyed in March. Please retire that lineup, NOW...........

Go ZAGS

jazzdelmar
01-01-2013, 06:19 PM
Is there a solid, rational explanation as to why Few plays the smurf backcourt? Serious question.

NEC26
01-01-2013, 06:31 PM
Maynard - I just re-watched the 2nd half and, for the record, Fraschilla did not say that the 3-guard grouping (Munchkin Lineup) was the Zags best line-up, or words to that affect. Actually, his broadcast partner said it and Fraschilla half-heartedly agreed, with the immediate qualifier that defense suffers from the lack of size with that lineup.

Also, for the record, we were up 6 (54-48) when the Munchkin Lineup (KP, GBJ, and Stocks) was inserted at the 9:45 mark of the 2nd half. When Stocks went out at the 7:06 mark the score was tied (56-56). So, not only did the defense suffer, again, with the Munchkin Lineup, the offense was poor as well (2 points in over 2-1/2 minutes).

It's a bad line-up, way too many negatives and very few, if any, positives IMHO. This lineup will be OK against the lower tier of the WCC but will continue to get destroyed against good teams.

As usual, it's all about March for the ZAGS, and that line-up will get destroyed in March. Please retire that lineup, NOW...........

Go ZAGSI would point out that we were down 36-38 when Stocks came in for Bell when he was injured(and we went on a bit of a run when Stocks came in). I would argue that Bell is a little overrated on this board. Not saying he isn't a good player but I have noticed that this team doesn't really seem to suffer like you might think it would when he is out.

TacomaZAG
01-01-2013, 06:33 PM
The only rational explanation I can think of is Coach's potential desire to get more ball handlers in the game when our guards are getting on-ball pressure in the back court. However, the negatives with this approach FAR out weigh any small positives, IMHO.

Also, if the guards are getting on-ball pressure in the back court, why not bring EH or KO up to help out, as both those guys handle the ball more than adequately and will instantly stop the on-ball pressure by taking the ball out of the guard's hands until the ball is over half court. If the reason is on-ball pressure in the half court, the Munchkin Lineup makes it worse, IMHO, as the offensive firepower and match-ups suffer greatly. Not to mention how much the defense suffers with this line-up............

Just my 2 cents, it's the only thing I can think of................

NEC - I have no issue with Stocks being in the game with Gary on the bench, unless Hart is in the game as well. With Stocks and Hart in the game together, the offensive firepower suffers way too much as neither of those guys are scorer's in any way. That being said, they both have very important roles on this team and provide them very well. My gripe is when KP, GBJ, and Stocks are all on the floor at the same time (Munchkin Lineup), as both the offense and defense suffer greatly.

Go ZAGS

primal23
01-01-2013, 06:50 PM
Let out the primal scream after that one baby!

I did scream when he made that shot! :P

NEC26
01-01-2013, 06:54 PM
I agree for the most part. I don't mind Stocks, Pangos, and Hart so much(especially if Olynyk and Harris are out there) but I'm not a big fan of Bell as the three. And I was wanting to point out that perhaps Bell is a little overrated here. Not that he isn't a good player or an important part of this team.

Reborn
01-01-2013, 07:29 PM
Did you say Bell is overrated??????? Wow!!!!

NEC26
01-01-2013, 07:35 PM
Yeah I did. He is a solid player and definitely an important part of our team but the threads about Bell being the best player on our team(at the beginning of this year) are silly.

Reborn
01-01-2013, 07:40 PM
Oh? I guess I missed them. However, from the tone of your post I would say that he's more important to the team than you think. Geeze man. He just hit a game winning 3!

maynard g krebs
01-01-2013, 07:52 PM
Maynard - I just re-watched the 2nd half and, for the record, Fraschilla did not say that the 3-guard grouping (Munchkin Lineup) was the Zags best line-up, or words to that affect. Actually, his broadcast partner said it and Fraschilla half-heartedly agreed, with the immediate qualifier that defense suffers from the lack of size with that lineup.

Also, for the record, we were up 6 (54-48) when the Munchkin Lineup (KP, GBJ, and Stocks) was inserted at the 9:45 mark of the 2nd half. When Stocks went out at the 7:06 mark the score was tied (56-56). So, not only did the defense suffer, again, with the Munchkin Lineup, the offense was poor as well (2 points in over 2-1/2 minutes).

It's a bad line-up, way too many negatives and very few, if any, positives IMHO. This lineup will be OK against the lower tier of the WCC but will continue to get destroyed against good teams.

As usual, it's all about March for the ZAGS, and that line-up will get destroyed in March. Please retire that lineup, NOW...........

Go ZAGS

You're right on the correction, though Fran didn't sound half-hearted to me, but we can spin our interpretations of tone and inflection any way we choose, I guess.

Preceding the segment in question, Stockton and Pangos were in together and that lineup, with Hart at the 3, built that lead. Smart made a long 3 over Harris, so the Bell/Hart sub didn't affect that play. Forte's next 3 was over a late-arriving Stockton, who was in the game during the stretch when the lead was built. If it had been over Bell when Hart might have been coming out to cover the wing, you might have a point.

On the offensive end, there were several good opportunities that didn't result in scores in that stretch- wide open 3 for Harris at top, Harris postup blocked/tied up in a situation where he often scores, Pangos blocked on a driving shot he often scores on.

Coincidence on that end in a very short time span. If you want to think it's a better offensive lineup w/ Hart instead of Bell with the other 4, well, opinions vary.

Funny how many posters think Few and the talented assistants he works with don't make a thoughtful and intelligent analysis of the lineups they put on the floor.

I stated and agreed with the weakness in my initial post, so no need on your part to reiterate it. If it didn't have strengths, this staff is much too smart to use it. Smarter than the posters that object.

Go back over the whole season and do the +- on every time this lineup has been used, and I'll listen. But this is one 2 minute sample, and the defensive issue is mostly about Stocks/KP in together, which they were previously when the lead was built.

bballbeachbum
01-01-2013, 08:09 PM
there's ways to use that lineup effectively I think, depends on the matchups. Sometimes it doesn't work out, but it also has, right? My answer would be it depends. I'd say I don't think the Zags want to rely on it but it's in the quiver

Re. March, if there's some quick penetrating 3 guard offense as the opposing matchup, that lineup might be just the ticket for stretches, for example. The lineup has weaknesses, I think we've all been able to see that, but it's done well at times too

Cheers primal :)

Knotsolucky
01-01-2013, 08:28 PM
Just my two cents on Fraschilla. He's not my favorite announcer. I'm not sure why so many believe he's such a Gonzaga fan. Maybe it's because our kids did a cameo in his son's trick shot video. If someone can tell me why he is so popular, I'd love to show him some respect. So far the only thing I can see is another random talking head. A 'Captain Obvious' if you will.

Remember Elias's lob into the paint that got picked off? He talked about a bad pass and OKS length. He said, "That's what we call sneaky reach." What? I've never heard the term 'sneaky reach' in my life. Later he referred to a sneaky block that Hart set. There were several more sneaky this and that's during the game that really sounded a little like something Ehlo might say.

Sorry everyone, probably like most of you I was pretty nervous last night and Fran's announcing made it worse.

Reborn
01-01-2013, 08:39 PM
Sorry everyone, probably like most of you I was pretty nervous last night and Fran's announcing made it worse.

What I got sick of hearing was how great Smart was. Fran was fixated on him all night long. I would have thought he was the best basketball player in Div 1. He had a good game, but he had mistakes too. And as much as I hate to admit it, I was glad that it was Smart who missed the two foul shots because of how much Fran kept saying that Smart has winning in his dna, and that he was born to win. I am not saying anything against Smart. I think he played very good. My criticism is about Fran F and his overfixaiton on Smart.

TacomaZAG
01-01-2013, 08:39 PM
We can definitely agree to disagree on separate line-ups, etc, as fan analysis is what this board is about. No issue there.........

I'm pretty sure we can agree that we support these kids, this program, and the coaching staff. No one on this board thinks they know more than the coaching staff, so please don't go there to try and validate an opinion. It's fun to follow the team and disect various situations/match-ups/line-ups/etc., as we all want the team to do as well as possible.

I like the fact that we have people on this board who rewatch games, take notes, discuss very specific issues, people who are as fanatical as I am about the ZAGS, otherwise I would worry about my sanity. It would be very boring if we all simply genuflected when we walked into the Kennel, nodded our head at everything that happened, and applauded politely every move made.

I also like the fact that the people on this board are respectful of the players and the coaching staff, regardless of the outcome of each game. I don't happen to like the Munchkin Lineup and some others do. That's OK, I'll still cheer for them the next time they're in there and hope the results contribute to a victory.

Go ZAGS

sittingon50
01-02-2013, 12:03 AM
What board have I been reading?