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combatcorpsmangulaw
12-27-2012, 03:27 PM
Watching Okla State vs. Tenn Tech today, it seems to me that Marcus Smart, 6'4" Guard is going to be a hand full for our Guards. Smart is smart. He plays defense, runs the court like a sprinter, and seems to have excellent court vision and generalship. And, he's a Freshman!

If we don't contain him, we're going to be wondering why Okla State keeps scoring 3's while our big men keep scoring 2's.

This was the only time I've seen Marcus Smart, so there is always a possibility that since Tenn Tech is a weaker team; he looked better than he really is or will be against a team like the Zags. But, I wouldn't bet on it. This kid can really get up and down the court, is a quick as a cat, plays defense and can bury the 3.

Lastly, we play in Stillwater --- We better bring our Helmets!!!

cjm720
12-27-2012, 03:53 PM
Smart and Nash will be a handful, no doubt. #nervousformyzags

Zagdawg
12-27-2012, 04:04 PM
Shall I jinx us...........


"Thank goodness they shoot like 26% from three between the two of them".



There .....now they should hit about 60% of their 3's.

MDABE80
12-27-2012, 04:04 PM
St Marys, Baylor, Ok State, Butler, and others in the WCC have superior guards out front.
Ours have slumped. Ours need to shed the jinx and turn into what they can be.....good defenders and excellent shooters. If they don't it'll be a rocky road for the rest of the season.

bartruff1
12-27-2012, 04:17 PM
Smart and Nash will be a handful, no doubt. #nervousformyzags Smart has been one of if not the top freshman all year....Tee Boone is bringing 4000 of his closest friends....will be a upset IMHO if we win that game.

Angelo Roncalli
12-27-2012, 04:37 PM
This thread looks like it is the final submissions of contestants in the 2012 handwringing championship.

rennis
12-27-2012, 05:23 PM
This thread looks like it is the final submissions of contestants in the 2012 handwringing championship.

Lol


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

combatcorpsmangulaw
12-27-2012, 05:27 PM
Well, let's be honest: Our Guards can't shoot! That's what causes 'hand wringing'. Stated another way: If our Guards can't handle Marcus Smart -- it will be a long night. So, between our inability to hit 3'pointers and our 6' guards defending a 6'4" guard w/ ALL THE TOOLS --- hand wringing may be in order.

Illinois game showed that, at times, the players can't stop taller, speedy, determined guards, even on our home court.

Personally, I'd like to see Edi guard Smart --- they're both incredibly fast but only one of them plays under control. Guess who?

maynard g krebs
12-27-2012, 05:58 PM
Well, let's be honest: Our Guards can't shoot! That's what causes 'hand wringing'.

If you want to be honest, you have to start by using facts as a basis. GU is 88th in 3 pt shooting at a respectable 36.3%; Okie St. is 31.8% for 236th. Smart shoots an anemic .275.

bartruff1
12-27-2012, 06:31 PM
Our guards can shoot.... players like Paul and Smart are headed to the NBA and very very few teams can handle them....eg....Paul got 42 against Ohio State... no hand wringing here at all ...they are just unreal. If we play Oklahoma State in the Kennell, we likely win....it is very difficult to win on the road against a team of comparable skill.

Beat Baylor...

Bogozags
12-27-2012, 06:38 PM
If you want to be honest, you have to start by using facts as a basis. GU is 88th in 3 pt shooting at a respectable 36.3%; Okie St. is 31.8% for 236th. Smart shoots an anemic .275.


The numbers are correct so let's just hope we have no less than an average shooting night...

Martin Centre Mad Man
12-27-2012, 06:45 PM
Watching Okla State vs. Tenn Tech today, it seems to me that Marcus Smart, 6'4" Guard is going to be a hand full for our Guards. Smart is smart. He plays defense, runs the court like a sprinter, and seems to have excellent court vision and generalship. And, he's a Freshman!

If we don't contain him, we're going to be wondering why Okla State keeps scoring 3's while our big men keep scoring 2's.

This was the only time I've seen Marcus Smart, so there is always a possibility that since Tenn Tech is a weaker team; he looked better than he really is or will be against a team like the Zags. But, I wouldn't bet on it. This kid can really get up and down the court, is a quick as a cat, plays defense and can bury the 3.

Lastly, we play in Stillwater --- We better bring our Helmets!!!

I've watched them a couple of times. Smart is really, really good. He is incredibly athletic, has a great motor, and has shown remarkable maturity. He is one of those rare freshmen who steps onto campus and instantly becomes THE leader of a quality team. He will be one of the toughest individual matchups our guards face all year.

MDABE80
12-27-2012, 06:56 PM
Abe= handwringer in chief. Justified.

CDC84
12-27-2012, 08:32 PM
Billy Donovan said after coaching him this summer that Marcus Smart was the greatest natural born leader he has ever coached on a basketball floor, anywhere. Smart's stats don't tell the whole story.

Section 116
12-27-2012, 09:44 PM
GU offers Cowboys huge home test:

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-state-mens-basketball-no.-13-gonzaga-offers-cowboys-huge-home-test/article/3741054?custom_click=rss

Baldwinzag
12-28-2012, 06:42 AM
I've seen OSU a handful of times this season; watched them demolish then #6 NC State, lose on the road vs a hot-shooting VT team, and absolutely crush Tennessee.

They are Top-20, 10-1, and think their guard play is fantastic, especially defensively.

We don't want to hear this, yet their guards go 6'3", 6'4", & 6'7". All 200+ lbs. All long, strong, and aggressive.

Personally, I think they'd smack around Illinois. Overall, Okie St is a better team top to bottom than any we've faced thus far, unanimously picked Top-3 in the Big 12 for good reason (we have yet to face a Big 12 team picked above 6th in preseason).

Without a doubt, OSU is an outside-inside team, not necessarily shooting a lot of 3's, more dribble-drive, mid-range, draw fouls, get to the hoop kinda team.

They rank Top-40 in nearly every defensive category as well, including giving up less than 60 ppg on average. I liken them to K-State on Steroids, meaning they are just as good defensively, yet can also shoot and score from most every position, KSU could not.

Many talking heads have said Marcus Smart is THE best Freshman in the nation this season. 6'4", 225lbs, can play the 1, 2, or 3, even some 4 in games I've seen. Averaging 13 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 5.1 apg is ridiculous. He was ranked Top-10 by every recruiting service and is a Top-10 pick this season as well. He's the type of player, including Le'Bryan Nash who could go off for 30+ vs us if we let 'em.

Okie St features several 5-star kids on their team and most play like it. A very explosive, strong, athletic, and pretty sound team. Coach Ford has reeled his recruits in, in a good way. By far the most pressing match-up for our guards. They haven't seen anything from positions 1 through 3, like they'll see on NYE. Yes, llinois had Brandon Paul, yet OSU has two of "them".

Having said that, OSU can be beat. They are not an elite shooting team or passing team, save Smart. They average less than 13 apg, mostly due to their one-on-one advantages and iso-based offense. Smart, Nash, and Co are all terrific at dribble-drive, break down a defense type of players and will play so-called "City Ball" to score many many buckets. The Cowboys are a solid rebounding club b/c every player crashes the boards on every shot.

As always, the key will be our guards just managing the game, not allowing them to MIS-manage it. This is not the type of game for Pangos to launch 13-14 shots. Continue to bang it inside, score easy buckets, stay in front of their guards(if they can), and play smart bball in the half-court. Okie St likes to get out in transition, yet can be broken down in the paint. Sometimes we can play out of control in either 1. close games 2. on the road. Guys like Elias Kelly Karnowski will need to play hard-nosed and in control, even take control. I also hope GLE plays inspired and fast for once.

It will be a tough game. Let's just say, we need a win vs Baylor tonight, because Okie St -- at their place -- their strengths vs our literal weaknesses...not a good match-up for us.

A long shot, imo, and a big upset if we can pull out a win.

Zagdawg
12-28-2012, 07:45 AM
So what your saying is there is a chance............


The Zags play well as the underdogs-- hopefully the shots fall for us and OSU players can't keep the after game new years party plans out of their heads. :)

GrizZAG
12-28-2012, 08:47 AM
Early on we were saying this year we had inside presence with the outside threat and a deep bench. The outside threat has waned of late and our guards need to step up and generate the offense we saw early on. That balance is going to determine our success IMO. Weak offense / defense from guards will kill us. Time to show

Martin Centre Mad Man
12-28-2012, 08:50 AM
OK State will be a great test to see what coaching adjustments Coach Few and Co. made in response to the Illinois loss. Can this team stop a really big athletic guard who attacks the rim and can pull up for a mid-range stop? Can they cut off the driving lanes on a pick and roll?

Baldwinzag
12-29-2012, 08:18 AM
After last night's game, all eyes will be on Pangos again...thus, we must take advantage and ride our bigs consistently.

Pangos will have more than his work cut out for him vs 2 lottery NBA guards in LeBryan Nash and Marcus Smart. these two are tremendous defenders as well as unbelievable playmakers. I think the best backcourt duo, Mizzou pretty good too, in College hoops. Just in terms of explosiveness, strength, all-around play...nearly every pundit believes Smart has been the best overall freshman guard in NCAA this season, along the same lines as Shabazz for UCLA. So versatile, strong for their age, and sure-fire NBA talent.

also, look to keep GBJ involved as we did last night. he was aggressive when called upon and played a nice all around game -- our best passer last night. Made terrific decisions.

This is just not the game nor match-up to "shoot to get hot"....b/c we won't be able to afford many missed opportunities, on the road no less.

Every Big-12 analyst predicted Okie St > Baylor before the season even started and we saw the type of talent they featured, so OSU is up next. Their lone loss was on the road vs ACC team who played their best game to date. They have destroyed the competition at home, because much like our front court, their backcourt is relentless at 'coming at you', non-stop, every possession, they challenge the isolations, one-on one, dribble-drive with their size and athleticism. Our guards will not be able to consistently contain, thus our bigs have to be dialed in as well --- don't foul, make good reads, help the weak side, etc etc.

If we're late on protecting the rim or helping on Nash & Smart flying through the lane, they'll all foul out or get dunked on.

On the other side, we have to pound it, because Okie St is a terrific defensive team from what I've seen and read. They shut down opposing guards. They swarm on the perimeter, "muscle" you up, hound the ball pressure, blow through ball screens because their guards are all b/w 200-230 lbs.

They sometimes play a version of a 4 guard attack, so Dower & Olynyk will have to take advantage at the 4. Must move quickly and attack smart because again, their guards are so adept at stealing the ball and helping underneath.

When you watch Okie St, they look, play, defend, and have the swagger of a Top-5 type of team, yet can be taken advantage of on rebounds, foul trouble, and scoring in the post.

Basically, its our only chance. I've said all pre-season and season, this isn't the best match-up for us, esp our guards on the road, who play in runs away from Spokane...hesistant than pressing, lose composure, then TO or dumb shot attempt.

As mentioned earlier, Olynyk, Harris, Karnowski must play in control and take control or else it will be a blow-out and yes, I'm talking 20+ pt loss, if not.

combatcorpsmangulaw
12-29-2012, 10:14 AM
I'm tired of all the nonsense about how 'weak' the WCC is according to many of the sportswriters, especially those east of the Mississippi.

Santa Clara looks as good as any team Duke as played this year - including Louisville, Kansas, Ohio State, Kentucky.

Gonzaga has certainly demonstrated the ability to hold so-called 'great' team's feet to the fire. Davidson, Kansas State, Baylor are some pretty good teams -- Illinois is a very good team.

Duke is No. 1 in the nation currently and Santa Clara doesn't look the least bit intimidated or out-classed by the self-anointed 'creme d' la creme'.

Gonzaga, St. Mary's, BYU, Santa Clara, and perhaps San Francisco could compete in any league in the country.

WCC isn't the Rodney Dangerfield of mens basketball anymore regardless of what clowns like Digger Phelps and 'the diaper dandy' moron say on TV.

raise the zag
12-29-2012, 02:35 PM
this thread should *totally* be merged with Reborn's 'Predictions & Thoughts' thread re: Oklahoma St game.

I realize it may be a different thread title, yet essentially the same topic above. It'd be a disservice not to include these posts above...a lot of good stuff about the upcoming match-up.

Please consider.

Baldwinzag
01-01-2013, 07:54 AM
A very good-looking prospect/player.

Personally, I'd draft him over Brandon Paul, Pierre Jackson, Isaiah Austin, et al.

Looked very Derrick Rose-ish to me.

Yes, he missed the two FT's at the end, and Pangos hit his -- difference b/w a Frosh & Soph right there.

However, both Coach Donovan and Coach Few said he was the best natural leader, on and off the court, they've been around in a very long time.

Good enough for me.

He's strong, smooth, athletic, high IQ, composed, can hit tough shots(the double fake!? what!), a future All-Star capable combo-guard.

Not to mention, a very hard-nosed, fundamentally sound defender.

Hope he sticks around at Okie St, yet easily a Lottery Pick, if not Top-5 type if he tears up the Big-12 and I believe he will.

They call him "Smartacus" for a reason.

Looked as good as advertised.

zaguarxj
01-01-2013, 09:27 AM
Smart's shot-block in the 2nd half was out-of-this-world. Where the heck did he come from?

bballbeachbum
01-01-2013, 12:36 PM
STUD

will enjoy watching him play against Kansas, Kansas St., Baylor and the Big 12ers. 5-0 vs. that conference and players like Smart. That's pretty good

zaguarxj
01-02-2013, 10:05 AM
Upon further review, I take back my remark about Smart's shot-block. It should have been called goaltending.

Baldwinzag
01-02-2013, 10:16 AM
Upon further review, I take back my remark about Smart's shot-block. It should have been called goaltending.

Speaking of watching replays, while we shot more FT's than OSU, we should/could have shot WAY more, imo.

Okie St was the team settling for shots, fade aways, and such. We pounded it down low or took it in the lane more often, not to mention our offensive rebounds.

Kelly didn't receive a single foul on his put-back attempts...at least 3 of those should have been "and 1's". First viewing didn't even think about the officiating, yet after another look, I found myself thinking "WTH" is going on?

I thought we received the short end of the stick given how aggressive we were to the rim/around the basket/on rebounds throughout the entire game.

Our guys were flat out malled and rarely called, unless it was Olynyk or Elias getting held or slammed hard in the 2nd half...our guards never received a foul call, yet theirs did whenever they made a move.

not complaining, because I know WCC will be a joke-fest in terms of contact, favoritism, and phantom calls, yet after watching the game 2 more times, the refs swallowed their whistles on most of our players, unless it was blatant. And when I mean blatant, I'm stating the ball didn't even make it to the basket because an arm was grabbed or worse. You should have seen some times Elias took it to the hoop, or Pangos, or GBJ, and no call. Hard fouls too.

I guess you call it home court officiating or Big 12 rugby, so not much to take issue with considering we won the game...well...on FT's, yet I came away *shocked* the first time all season after watching some of those non-calls vs us. Then a couple of those calls on Marcus Smart, as great of player he is, was perfect defense on our part and virtually no contact whatsoever. Compared to how they called it on our end, Okie St's guard were rewarded far too often.

Just sayin'. Not being petty, only an observation.

rennis
01-02-2013, 10:28 AM
Upon further review, I take back my remark about Smart's shot-block. It should have been called goaltending.

without a doubt, and you didn't need a replay to see it either.

Birddog
01-02-2013, 10:35 AM
Speaking of watching replays, while we shot more FT's than OSU, we should/could have shot WAY more, imo.
People see things in different ways. Your view is in direct contrast to the guy who was sitting behind me who thought every touch from Olynyk or Harris should have been called. He was clearly an expert too as he said things like "He's elbowing" or "He's hooking his arm he has to, He's a stiff" You woulda' thought he was a Zebra, but he was wearing orange.

My take was that at halftime the refs decided to tighten things up and not let so much go. They were whistle happy in the first few minutes of the 2nd.

Baldwinzag
01-02-2013, 10:45 AM
People see things in different ways. Your view is in direct contrast to the guy who was sitting behind me who thought every touch from Olynyk or Harris should have been called. He was clearly an expert too as he said things like "He's elbowing" or "He's hooking his arm he has to, He's a stiff" You woulda' thought he was a Zebra, but he was wearing orange.


:lmao:

very true, indeed.

also, considering I viewed the game 2 more times since, paralysis by analysis probably occurs concerning officiating...

ZagsGoZags
01-02-2013, 10:56 AM
and several posts on Ok St.'s board are bitterly complaining how the officiating favored GU ....

Baldwinzag
01-02-2013, 11:07 AM
and several posts on Ok St.'s board are bitterly complaining how the officiating favored GU ....

if you just look at the box score of FT's attempted, maybe they have a point.

yet considering we out-rebounded them 33-18, had 5 more offensive boards, and are an inside-out team, while they are outside-in, they don't have much to go on...

Talking and/or complaining about officiating is such a lose-lose conversation.

I don't prefer to ever mention it, as no matter the justification or explanation, it sounds petty and shallow.

I just meant to point out our guys were hammered on numerous occasions with no calls, it is what it is.

I'm just happy we pulled it out.

The only time mentioning officiating worthwhile or justified, is when Dave Libbey is involved. He makes his own rules on the court and training his WCC officials. By far, the worst move this conference has ever made, there is a reason he is the lowest reviewed official anywhere and black listed by several conferences not named the Pac-10, Big West, or WCC.

Mantua
01-02-2013, 01:13 PM
:)Where can you find out if a ref is blacklisted?
Is that really possible?
CAN FANS DO IT?