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Reborn
12-27-2012, 09:47 AM
I am so shocked by how poorly our guards have been shooting this year, and if there is a concern that I have about this Zag team it is the poor shooting of our guards this year, not only from the 3 point line but also from the foul line. Going into the season, our backcourt was considered to be one of the better backcourts in the country, and they haven't even come close to living up to that so far. And unfortunately our guards coming off the bench are not helping at all. Stockton is shooting 41% from the foul line and Drangis 50%, and Dranginis is shooting 27% from the 3 pt line.

After watching our game with Illinois, it became obvious how they beat us. They beat us with a 2-3 zone in the second half, and our guards could not respond to it. They shot 27.8% from beyong the 3. They also missed some key ft's down the stretch. I guess what has be so stumped is that we shot the ball from the outside so well last year.

Baylor plays a 2-3 zone and I am really hoping (and praying) that the Zag guards can get their Ninja shooting touch back. The Zags will need them. We will need to make 6 or 7 three's tomorrow to beat Baylor. Hopefully, the break has helped them.

what are your thoughts on why our guards are shooting so poorly?

aflac4life
12-27-2012, 10:24 AM
Six foot guards have to be crafty, both passing and scoring, and so far only Stockton has shown that. Other teams now have lots of film and due to the size of our front court their only option is to disrupt our back court. "The season goes as Pangos" as someone so aptly said.......

dnj116
12-27-2012, 10:28 AM
I'm not too worried. Call it the perennial "sophomore slump" that has also plagued Harris, and others. We know what they are capable of, they just need to get some of their shots falling again.

Bell, Pangos, and Stockton are undersized guards that were obviously rattled a bit by Illinois' athletic guards. However, Clemson, Oklahoma, and West Viginia also had very big and athletic guards, and they did well against them.

Part of the slump could be attributed to the fact that Pangos and Bell are no longer unknown commodities. Defenses key on them, and know that they can make outside shots.

Nothing wrong with how we're playing, based off the results in the win column, but I agree that the weakest aspect of this team thus far -- if we're nit-picking -- is our guard play. They'll get it back, hopefully we'll be hitting on all cylinders come March...

BobZag
12-27-2012, 10:40 AM
Ever since marijuana was legalized....... Hmmmm...

cjm720
12-27-2012, 10:45 AM
It's a mystery to me, Reborn. With our bigs doing so well, I figured that would help open things up for Bell and Pangos. If I had one suggestion, I'd say they need to be more agressive and try to get shots at the foul line or someplace other than beyond the arc to keep defenses honest (and hopefully get hot).

Those long, athletic teams will continue to scare me all year until our backcourt responds better.

titopoet
12-27-2012, 10:48 AM
Against Illinois they did not show patience. Kelly or a big at at the freethow line in the weak spot of that zone always led to easy baskets. But for a seven minute period in the second half, they did not get it there.

More to the point was the pick and roll D. It was better against K-state. It was non-existence in Illinois. St Mary with Delly, is very good pick and roll team. Baylor is too. Tighten up that, and GU will be okay. And the worse part of the P&R D was the bigs. They switched when they should have hedged and vice versa. They look lost as Paul and other continued to get to the rack at will because they were not on the same page.

rennis
12-27-2012, 10:55 AM
Let's not forget the simple fact that our offense is not continually designed around getting the guards free for open looks from deep. I'm no strategy expert, but it looks to me like the offense is clearly built around freeing-up passing lanes to get the ball into the post early and often in the shot clock.

The Zag teams of yore ran constant flex offensive sets that set multiple screens for the guards to get open. If we ran an entire game like that, GBJ and Pangos would get many more looks and score off screens with the kind of consistency we would like.

I just don't think that's what you're going to see from this team this year. And thusly their stats are bound to tumble...even if they were both 6'3" I don't think it would matter.

gamagin
12-27-2012, 11:06 AM
it's another." - mom, RIP

jazzdelmar
12-27-2012, 11:07 AM
"reborn: what are your thoughts on why our guards are shooting so poorly?[/QUOTE]


what part of 6-0 do you not understand? it matters.

Reborn
12-27-2012, 11:11 AM
I have been really hoping that Dranginis would be the answer to our 3 pt shooting woes, but he has not shown yet that he has the confidence to shoot well from the outside against the better teams. Yes! He scored 31 points against a weaker Div I team (or was it a Div II team), and yes he is a great penetrator and can get to the line. But at the foul line he is only 50%. That is mind blowing to me. At the beginning of this season, out off all the new Zag players, I was really excited to see Dranginis play, and I felt that he would be a great 3 pt shooter coming off the bench, which was something we did not have last year.

I believe the key to outside shooting is first to take open shot, shots that you know you can make. If you are rushing your shot, then you will miss it. In reviewing the games so far this season, I see the Zags missing way too many outside shots where they are open, and shots they SHOULD MAKE. Shooting is all about confidence, and Gonzaga does have Ninja gunners who are very good outside shooters and they need to remember that about themselves.

When I played at the collegiate level, I would always take the time to remind myself that I was a good outside shooter in highschool, and even though I was playing at a higher level, an open shot is an open shot, and that I was quite able to knock those down. I would try to stay relaxed and just focus on my release and follow through.

Reborn
12-27-2012, 11:30 AM
Sorry, gamagin, but I believe my concern is legitimate. I love our guards. I have Pangos' pic in my Avatar box. I believe our guards are really good outside shooters, but have not been playing up to the standards that I believe that they can.

Any guard will have shooting slumps. I had mine. When I got in one, I had to spend extra time in the gym after practice in order to fix whatever was wrong. Shooting is all about mechanics, and sometimes the mechanics of the shot are not right. When I was in one of my worst shooting slumps, and while I was in the gym after practice shooting, my coach noticed that when I was shooting my elbow was not directly under my shooting hand and was lined up too far to the outside. This is a common thing and easy to fix. Another common thing that happens is that the release of the ball is too flat and does not have enough arc to make it through the rim.

Whatever the problems are for our guards, I believe that they must spend some time in the gym shooting and shooting until their shot is corrected. Like I said, we have some darn good shooters on our team and I totally believe that they can get their shots back if they spend time doing it. I started this thread to try to find out what some of you thought, or if some of you had any ideas, as I know there are some pretty knowledgeable people who write here. This thread was not intended to criticize or gripe or complain as someone said. I felt like having a nice conversation about what others thought, and what they thought might be the solution. If you don't think we are having problems with outside shooting, then I would say that this thread is for you.

Reborn
12-27-2012, 11:35 AM
Go Zags!

sittingon50
12-27-2012, 11:40 AM
are they a disgrace to the uniform?

ZenZag
12-27-2012, 12:04 PM
something they were doing a lot more of, which it seems to me they are now not: dribble penetration! this leading to A) a nice floater, B) a dish to a big or C) a kick-out for a good look from outside. I just haven't seen this happening lately.....anyone else??

GoZags
12-27-2012, 12:50 PM
Doomed

Zaga
12-27-2012, 01:24 PM
The reason we lost to the Illini is we quit going to our bigs the last 7 minutes or so of the game. IMHO

JPtheBeasta
12-27-2012, 01:54 PM
I am one who would definitely like to see our guards getting into the lane and getting to the foul line more than they have been. Baylor's short backcourt would seem to be a decent medicine for what ails them, though- at least from what I can tell on paper.

maynard g krebs
12-27-2012, 01:58 PM
I think Rennis is right about how the offense is structured. And it's working. The 4 bigs are 196/299 on 2 pt fg attempts, which is 65.5%. Pretty phenomenal; would probably be a record for a group of 4 guys if such records were kept.

The downside is that you're not going to have the opportunities as an outside shooter to get as much rhythm and confidence in this kind of system.

But looking at the numbers, it's more KP that is struggling than GB. KP is at 38% overall; GB is 45% overall and 38% on 3's. Last year GB was 40% on 3's before the new year, so at 18-47, one more made 3 and he'd actually be at a higher % now than at this point last year. In a similar thread recently, I posted that GB's 3 pt % was almost 15% higher from January on than Nov/Dec his sr yr of hs, and 13% higher from Jan. on last year. So history says GB will heat up when conf play starts, and he's been even better in the tournaments both years.

As to ft's Bell is now at .765. I think he started out 0-4 or something and must have made 13 straight since, as he is now 13-17. Pangos is at .769, down from last year but still pretty good. Hard to fathom Stockton's struggles though. He started out something like 29-31 from the line as a fr, so it's not lack of ability. Hope a professional is working on the mental aspect of it with him.

jpwils
12-27-2012, 02:19 PM
I would inject a bit of competition for Pangos if he does not perform better- how bout Dranginis getting mo minutes??

Bell seems about the same as last year- but in BOTH cases teams are going to play off them til they prove them wrong- may actually help Pangos....no need to panic- just beat Baylor next!

Pangos has proven competent in the past year or so- I think he will straighten out soon.

Some better screens would also help- Olynyk sets good ones normally , as does Karno- other bigs need to study how those two do it.

Baylor should be a great test! Go Zags!!

rennis
12-27-2012, 02:19 PM
The downside is that you're not going to have the opportunities as an outside shooter to get as much rhythm and confidence in this kind of system.


exactly. With the exception of that play called out of timeout that set Kevin up for the three against Illinois that went in/out, I can't think of a lot of missed opportunities for the guards on plays designed for them. For the most part they are just playing within the system, and this year's version of the system is feeding the post by all means necessary.

the rest is just rhythm, as MGK stated. Taking rushed shots near ends of shot clocks or out of rhythm for any reason doesn't work so well.

Ziggy
12-27-2012, 02:40 PM
Ever since marijuana was legalized....... Hmmmm...

Thanks alot Bob, I just snorted my IPA all over the key board. Merry prankster to you, too !

mgadfly
12-27-2012, 03:37 PM
I don't think they are doing that bad. From an efficiency stand-point:

GBJ: 113.1 ORtg vs 115.8 (2012)
He still has the easier part of the schedule to go and very easily could be more efficient this season than last.

Pangos: 114.9 vs 119.0 (2012)
He is still being effective despite being asked to do less this season. I think he will pick it up and finish close to his last season efficiency numbers.

Stockton: 93.5 vs 93.7 (2012)
As a freshman Stocton's 110 ORtg gave us another effective offensive player off the bench. Since then, he has been a little worse than Foster and Meech.

Dranginis: 119.0
That is very good. He is shooting 71% from 2 point range and 28% from three point distance. I imagine one will fall and the other will come up. If he is a 110 or better efficiency player over the entire season then he is a quality reserve guard.

Edi: 104.3 vs 102.6 (2012)
Basically the same this year. Shooting much better from deep and the freethrow line but missing the closer-in shots at an alarming rate lately.

Hart: 180.9 vs 105.8 (2012)
He hasn't taken enough shots to be statistically significant but he has made the most of his opportunities.


As far as outside shooting goes, I think the biggest drop in efficiency has been Harris who finished at 41.4% last year and is off to an incredibly slow start of 21.4%. Additionally, last season Dower was 8 for 20 (40%) helping numbers. He is 50% this season but has only taken 2 shots.

This team wants to dump the ball inside and work around the rim. I wonder if playing that style takes a toll on Harris? As for the guards, I think they are fine. It is a little tougher staying in rhythm when you are dumping it down low more often.

SteelZag
12-27-2012, 04:01 PM
exactly. With the exception of that play called out of timeout that set Kevin up for the three against Illinois that went in/out, I can't think of a lot of missed opportunities for the guards on plays designed for them. For the most part they are just playing within the system, and this year's version of the system is feeding the post by all means necessary.

the rest is just rhythm, as MGK stated. Taking rushed shots near ends of shot clocks or out of rhythm for any reason doesn't work so well.

3pt %-
Brandon Paul 36%, D.J. Richardson 33%, Tracy Abrams 27%, Pierre Jackson 36%, Brady Heslip 37%, A.J. Walton 31%, Trey Burke 36%, Tim Hardaway Jr. 35%, Gary Bell 38%, Kevin Pangos 36%.

Last years shooting %'s may have led to unrealistic goals. Pangos and Bell are taking fewer 3pt shots this year in an attempt to get the ball inside. They never shoot enough to get hot enough to raise their %'s in my opinion.

Pangos is between a rock and a hard spot. He is averaging about 5 3pt attempts per game. If he goes 2-5 and shoots a 6th one and makes it he is a hero and if he misses it he goes 2-6 and all we read is he shouldn't have shot the ball as much.

As for slumps, I've found in the past that the more a slump is talked about, the deeper it becomes. I coached a lttle bit of college golf. I remember one golfer who was having putting problems. After every round I would have to listen to "If I wouldn't have three-putted 4 times." I finally convinced him to not utter a word about putting for a couple of weeks. His putting soon returned to normal and remained that way for years afterword.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Pangos
Shoot when you're hot. Shoot to get hot.

maynard g krebs
12-27-2012, 05:26 PM
To further illustrate the degree to which the Zags are going inside:

Statsheet.com lists the leading scorers per 40 minutes.

1) CJ McCollum 31.2
2)Doug McDermott 30.5

22)Przemek Karnowski 25.6
40)Kelly Olynyk 24.3
72)Elias Harris 23.1

Dower is just over 17 pts per 40.

There are a little over 4000 players in D1, so Karnowski and Olynyk are in the top 1% in points scored per minute, and Harris in the top 2%.

Gives some perspective on scoring opportunities for the guards.

bartruff1
12-27-2012, 06:33 PM
11-1

Reborn
12-27-2012, 07:15 PM
I'd like to thank some of you for your knowledge and perspective.

teacher56
12-27-2012, 07:49 PM
I feel your frustration, Reborn...me too!
I remember these two last year when they were freshmen and we were all excited about their upside.
I really liked the way KP has been playing the last 2-3 games, discounting a couple uncharacteristically lazy passes. To me he as been concentrating on playing like a passing point guard rather than a shooting/scoring point guard. He'll get his shot back and we'll all feel better. I like both of our starting guards. Both are playing hard nosed defense. Let us not forget that they now have targets on their backs after such outstanding years as freshmen. They are still playing hard and learning. I, for one, can't ask any more than that.

Reborn
12-27-2012, 07:52 PM
thanks,teacher56. Appreciate your insight. You should post more.

Let's go Zags!

DixieZag
12-27-2012, 08:04 PM
I have faith that they will both be back in force and I have faith that they will do it this year - the only thing that I wonder about is if Gary will be healthy enough and Kevin be confident enough so that they return to form before some real damage is done. We all know that we need the right seed to challenge for a final four and this next 5 game swing will go a long way to determine our seed.

Why do I have faith in them?

Because they are both too mature beyond their years (think of Gary as a freshman against Ohio State or Kevin's second game of his career) and they both are gym rats that will "work" their way back into their prime. I know that the definition of a Zag is one willing to work hard at their game and these two are the epitome of "Zag." Lastly, they are both very smart and learn quickly, they are learning to play effectively even if they don't have their A game that night - you can see it in Gary playing even harder on defense and Kevin will start getting back to the foul line.

No time like Baylor to get it started. It will be tough to turn around bad mojo on the road.

bartruff1
12-27-2012, 08:47 PM
Kevin Pangos.....Gonzaga ...nominated for ...The Collegiate Point Guard of the Year Award. for.....Leadership......Determination......Teamwor k

Reborn
12-27-2012, 09:01 PM
Kevin Pangos.....Gonzaga ...nominated for ...The Collegiate Point Guard of the Year Award. for.....Leadership......Determination......Teamwor k

I am not questioning how Kevin played last year. I have his picture in my Avator box. He had a fantastic year last year, at least in the McCarthy Center. I'm wondering what has happened this year.

GodZaga76
12-27-2012, 11:15 PM
So thats why I saw Kingma walking around campus last week, ah it all makes sense now. Like Bobzag said its all about those dang weeds being legal now.

DADoZAG
12-28-2012, 08:48 AM
MGK and Rennis have presented some great information to prove there’s really nothing wrong with our guards. Still production is not what we’re used to and is not what I believe is possible.

So, what’s going on?

I watched the first half of the Illini game again yesterday afternoon while home sick. The ZAGS were up 31-20 at about the 8:00 minute mark of the first half. I don’t think they scored more than one more field goal before half, but ended up with 10 or so turnovers by half. Nearly all of those turnovers were in the paint due to trying to force a pass or by a big trying to drive through a double or triple team.

Going eight minutes with one field goal shouldn’t be acceptable by staff, especially when your opponent is allowed to score 21 points (score 41-41 at half, thank goodness ZAG free throws went in).

There was an article after the game where BPaul told his team at half something to the effect of, Hey, we’re playing badly but we’re in this thing, let’s crush these guys.

I can’t get to stats to prove it, but my gut tells me if the turnovers in the paint from forcing were eliminated (or even cut in half) and instead were quick kick outs to the guards, the ZAGS would be 12-0, there’d be an additional 4 or 5 made threes per game, and this thread wouldn’t exist.

Go ZAGS!

Zagdawg
12-28-2012, 09:13 AM
We must have been watching a different game with the Illinois game--

Our Bigs were hitting 70% of their shots and our guards were hitting 27% from the three-- does it make sense to keep feeding the guys shooting 27% or the guys shooting 70%? On the 30% of the shots they missed--they were getting fouled by the Illinois bigs and fouled out both of their starting bigs.

The coaching staff and team agree they went away from the plan of pounding it inside (i.e. the could not feed the post in the 2nd half--- credit Illinois for taking this away).

Our strength is our Bigs-- if our guards can keep the other teams honest -- we will be fine.

hooter73
12-28-2012, 09:51 AM
i rewatched the Kansas St game yesterday and the guards just plain dont get the opportunities to shoot in some games. Hitting that one random shot per half isnt necessarily tough, or too much pressure, but it is different when you only get one or two good or open looks. The whole game plan is to pound it low right now, im sure we'll start to see some more kick outs and set plays, but probably not until the guards, including Kyle (I agree with the above of him needing to get the ball in the bucket more) get back to their consistent ways.

I watched old film on Morrison, Bankhead, Steppe, and Ravio and they just shot at a different level and different style of play than our guards currently do.

combatcorpsmangulaw
12-28-2012, 10:27 AM
The game is played ON THE COURT. Statistics are fine and have consumed sports like baseball w/ the OBP being 'the key metric' when deciding which free agent to sign for an outrageous salary.

Unfortunately, 18-22 year old kids aren't professional athletes yet so statistics become more of an academic exercise. Consistency is much more important -- so that statistical measure is more meaningful imo.

Home court seems to be an advantage so I guess the number of fans screaming at the top of their lungs behind or across from the opponents bench during home games should be factored into the statistical measurements used to evaluate players and teams at the college level.

Lastly, get Bernoulli's principle involved to suck out the oxygen available to opposing coaches like air moving across the top of a chimney. Hopefully, that deprivation will result in poor coaching decision in the 2nd half of the game. Then, we can all enjoy reading the comprehensive statistical guide to why teams that play poorly should be playing better and those that are playing well should watch out for statistical indicia of a looming future.

J/K

bballbeachbum
12-28-2012, 10:49 AM
I watched the first half of the Illini game again yesterday afternoon while home sick. The ZAGS were up 31-20 at about the 8:00 minute mark of the first half. I don’t think they scored more than one more field goal before half, but ended up with 10 or so turnovers by half. Nearly all of those turnovers were in the paint due to trying to force a pass or by a big trying to drive through a double or triple team.

I remember something like this too. And on the KState zone, it was a matchup zone wasn't it? That's what let them try to handle our bigs 1v1 in the paint, which failed. Illinois double teamed the post and sagged defensivley to make entry passes tougher, their adjustment to what the Zags did to open the lead, that's what I remember seeing. KState never tried that to my recollection, or if they did, it was a short-lived idea. Instead, they matched up with our bigs mano a mano, and got beat doing so.

will be interesting to see if Baylor tries to contain the paint with more straight up defenses like KState, or whether they look to double the post (especially off the bounce which is what Illinois did) and force GU to pass out and execute on the perimeter

as big a task for KP/GBj/David will be keeping the Baylor guards out of the paint on D

Hoopaholic
12-28-2012, 11:07 AM
so those who feel our guards are not playing up to "expectations"....can I ask what your expectations are for our guards? Specifics please because to be honest I am absolutely BAFFLED by this position.....

11-1, top 25 team in the majority of the offensive categories, top 25 team in many of the defensive categories, each guard has increased or improved the personal stats over last year to date with the sole exception of shooting percentage and to be honest the difference between last years shooting percentage and this years is about 3 or 4 made baskets.....all in what is shaping up to be one of the more difficult out of conference schedules in america............

I am beginning to think that some of the issues facing some of our fans is the past years expectations and roles of guards at Gonzaga and this years guards are not the forefront, not the "go to" players, plays anot specifically designed for them and some may find this confusing and equating it to "down year" for guards....

11-1

hooter73
12-28-2012, 11:25 AM
I still miss Stockton rainbowing threes in like he was two years ago.

cjm720
12-28-2012, 11:40 AM
Let us not forget that they now have targets on their backs after such outstanding years as freshmen. They are still playing hard and learning. I, for one, can't ask any more than that.

This...

gamagin
12-28-2012, 11:45 AM
I still miss Stockton rainbowing threes in like he was two years ago.

I think his game has devolved (or evolved depending on what is required) to becoming the floor general and thus much of his distance shooting has involved firing in order to beat the clock. Or shooting because the first three plays broke down .

In any event, it too often doesn't appear to be main purpose of the play, but, rather, the last option. Not sure what mental gyrations one has to go through over and over to run the plays as practiced, then switch gears and shoot. But it shows, imo.

cjm720
12-28-2012, 11:48 AM
so those who feel our guards are not playing up to "expectations"....can I ask what your expectations are for our guards? Specifics please because to be honest I am absolutely BAFFLED by this position.....

11-1, top 25 team in the majority of the offensive categories, top 25 team in many of the defensive categories, each guard has increased or improved the personal stats over last year to date with the sole exception of shooting percentage and to be honest the difference between last years shooting percentage and this years is about 3 or 4 made baskets.....all in what is shaping up to be one of the more difficult out of conference schedules in america............

I am beginning to think that some of the issues facing some of our fans is the past years expectations and roles of guards at Gonzaga and this years guards are not the forefront, not the "go to" players, plays anot specifically designed for them and some may find this confusing and equating it to "down year" for guards....

11-1

Pangos shot is way off since Davidson, but his overall game is improved...rebounding and assisting at a much better, consistent clip.

We are undefeated if Pangos plays average, so I guess I'm partially down on him because of that. Still worried about his ability to drive by defenders and defend more athletic, quicker players.

Bell only needs to be more agressive.

75Zag
12-28-2012, 12:06 PM
Out of the 80 - 90 players that GU has faced in their opening 12 games, only ONE PLAYER was remarkably better than GU's players playing as a team. The guy from Illinois cleaned our clock, but otherwise GU did what needed to be done.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And my corollary, if we are winning, put your green eyeshades, calculator and statistical analysis books under your couch, pour yourself an adult beverage or two or six and enjoy the game.

Go Bulldogs!

gonzagabasketball
12-28-2012, 12:07 PM
Hoopaholic: "....can I ask what your expectations are for our guards?"

For Pangos, its shooting less, but more accurately and assisting at a much better, consistent clip. And for these assists to come about as a result of getting into the paint on the dribble and distributing.

For Bell, it would be to have him more assertive on offense with his shot selection and getting to the foul line more frequently.

But these are more wishes than an expectations.

GU will be fine if these two make no adjustments or improvements. I dont happen to believe that this will occur.

BULLDOG#1
12-28-2012, 12:51 PM
Out of the 80 - 90 players that GU has faced in their opening 12 games, only ONE PLAYER was remarkably better than GU's players playing as a team. The guy from Illinois cleaned our clock, but otherwise GU did what needed to be done.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And my corollary, if we are winning, put your green eyeshades, calculator and statistical analysis books under your couch, pour yourself an adult beverage or two or six and enjoy the game.

Go Bulldogs!

couldn't agree more.

maynard g krebs
12-28-2012, 06:05 PM
The game is played ON THE COURT. Statistics are fine and have consumed sports like baseball w/ the OBP being 'the key metric' when deciding which free agent to sign for an outrageous salary.

Unfortunately, 18-22 year old kids aren't professional athletes yet so statistics become more of an academic exercise. Consistency is much more important -- so that statistical measure is more meaningful imo.

Home court seems to be an advantage so I guess the number of fans screaming at the top of their lungs behind or across from the opponents bench during home games should be factored into the statistical measurements used to evaluate players and teams at the college level.

Lastly, get Bernoulli's principle involved to suck out the oxygen available to opposing coaches like air moving across the top of a chimney. Hopefully, that deprivation will result in poor coaching decision in the 2nd half of the game. Then, we can all enjoy reading the comprehensive statistical guide to why teams that play poorly should be playing better and those that are playing well should watch out for statistical indicia of a looming future.

J/K

Statistics in baseball and basketball are two different things. The reason is that baseball is more of an individual sport, with teamwork playing a significantly lesser role than in basketball.

Yes, the game is played ON THE COURT, as you say. But I believe you can, after watching the game, use stats to provide insight and context for what you have seen. Guard play and inside play are not separated events, like the at bats of the leadoff and cleanup hitters, but occur in relationship to each other. And numbers can be presented to illustrate and explain what we see.

maynard g krebs
12-28-2012, 06:33 PM
More useless statistics: GU is 30th in assists per game, 16.4. And 34th in assist/turnover ratio at 1.27/1.

Couple that with the 65%+ that the bigs are shooting from inside the arc, and the team's 52% fg shooting overall (3rd in D1), and all that looks like solid empirical evidence that the backcourt is playing at a very high level (at least on the offensive end), with the exceptions of KP's shooting slump and DS' ft shooting.

Shooting % this high by the bigs only happens if they are consistently getting easy shots. And that happens with high level guard play on the offensive end.

All that said, I agree that to make a deep run in march, the Zags will need some hot shooting from the guards, and I would like to see more balanced scoring.

RenoZag
12-28-2012, 06:52 PM
All that said, I agree that to make a deep run in march, the Zags will need some hot shooting from the guards, and I would like to see more balanced scoring.

Hope tonight is the start of a trend

Oregonzagnut
12-28-2012, 07:31 PM
Thats what is up with our guards. It is time to go 5-0 against Big 12 teams this year!

12-1

Reborn
12-28-2012, 07:34 PM
Again I would like to thank you who posted knowledgeable posts with insights. I enjoyed what yu had to say. It was sure good seeing Kevin Shooting the way he did last year from the outside and inside. He just had a great game, almost as good as Paul's, and that's saying alot. If Kevin had made a few of those free throws at the end he may have tied Paul.

zaguarxj
12-28-2012, 07:45 PM
My son and I had a lot of fun pretending to be insane Zag fans yelling at Pangos for his mistakes at the end of the game. "Get that bum off the court! He missed a free-throw!!!"

SteelZag
12-28-2012, 08:23 PM
Mrs. Reborn, Mrs. Reborn, can Kevin come out to play?

Mrs. Reborn you know...........

Zaglaw
12-28-2012, 08:26 PM
:clap:

SteelZag
12-28-2012, 09:03 PM
It's is weird how averages are made out of a couple of different numbers.

bartruff1
12-28-2012, 09:59 PM
by calculating the Coefficient of Variation... that is the ratio of the Standard Deviation to the Mean, as opposed to the average.....in any case, anthing over 40% is good stuff.

Reborn
12-28-2012, 10:02 PM
I'd say that that's the Kevin Pangos I like best.
GBJ was only 1-4 from the 3. Elias, 0-2. But Kevin made enough to cover the whole team. I felt we needed at least 7 three's to win, and that we would need good shooting from our guards...Dang Kevin responded at the perfect time.

Zag79
12-28-2012, 11:55 PM
Nothing is wrong. GBJ could be a tad more assertive if you will, but the guards are fantastic. So are the bigs. This team is stacked, and I can't wait to watch the rest of the season unfold. Go Zags!

willandi
01-03-2013, 08:37 AM
Ever since marijuana was legalized....... Hmmmm...

So, you think they Coug'ed it?