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View Full Version : Fastbreaks: How do they work?



U Zig, I Zag
12-19-2012, 07:01 PM
Because if someone knows, let Few and Co know. This team is, at best, mediocre at fastbreaks. Transition game can be good - we can score quick w/o setting up. But straight-up, 1980's era, NBA-style fastbreaks... that's not our thing.

Pangos nor Bell are great distributors, Stockton is better (takes more chances too... but that comes with being a more aggressive passer) - is that the deal? They just don't know how to play the advantage of 2 on 1, 3 on 2?

90% of the fastbreak plays involving Bell end up with Bell on the ground. Getting to the line? Sure! Take the free throws - but at some point its going to catch up. He can't be on the ground at the end of each play like that and not get beat up physically.

E finishes with a combo of finesse and power, KO seems to do the same. KD has the best hands at the rim. The game where he scored 30 he was doing some incredible things, last second and the rim. Sign of a skilled finisher.

Sort of goes down hill from there...

Of course, it's not the worst thing in the world, but in a tight game being able to finish will be important.

MickMick
12-19-2012, 07:10 PM
I see a repeating pattern with Pangos in "two on one" breaks.


He dishes too early. He must make the defender commit to stopping him before dishing. Pass too early and the defender has time to switch. He should never have the time to switch.

Stockton will drive all the way to the hoop if no one steps in front. A "Meech like" one man fast break. There are times you don't even need to dish.


Dribble until someone steps in front, then dish. If the defender doesn't step in front, take it all the way to the rim and let the trailer clean up misses. Kevin needs to do this.

Baldwinzag
12-19-2012, 07:12 PM
One of the more insightful, original posts I've read in awhile.

Spot on.

I'd rather see us spot up for transition 3's than have GBJ/Pangos/Stocks get clobbered every time they fight their way to the rim, and rarely draw the foul. All are vertically challenged, get swallowed up, or leave the floor when they shouldn't...it leads to TO for the other team while they are picking themselves off the floor and at risk of injury.

The exception is Elias Harris -- who draws the foul or bulls his way to a solid shot attempt. I agree that Kyle Dranginis is the most nifty of our guards.

Of course we work an excellent transition game, its one of our strengths, yet our guards finishing or even getting a decent attempt isn't our strong suit, as UZIZ already eluded to.

I think we need a new plan in certain situations, such as when the guards are leading the breakaway...maybe spot up for perimeter shots(as small teams do), or mid-range jumpers, or just wait for our excellent bigs to cut to the hoop or something.

jazzdelmar
12-19-2012, 07:19 PM
great point but dont count on anything changing --- with the players or the coach...

U Zig, I Zag
12-19-2012, 07:29 PM
great point but dont count on anything changing --- with the players or the coach...

Yah, I have sort of resigned myself to the fact that the fastbreaks will end up 'anti-climatic' - probably not the end of the world. But - Bell hitting the ground like* that can't be good for him (or GU) in the long term.


*I will own up to being a little over indulgent at times describing my Zags... but in this case I am not: GBJ is gonna get hurt one of these times landing on the court like that.

Baldwinzag
12-19-2012, 07:42 PM
case in point:

Dranginis, by far, our best guard in finishing around the rim. its not all that close. as uziz mentioned, soft hands.

he doesn't get the mins vs best teams, yet when he does, he has a knack for finishing in transition, unlike our starting duo.

GBJ's fast break shooting % probably hovers around 5%, unless its a 3pt shot. seems he gets slammed to the floor, draws an offensive, or misses badly. Same with KP, not a knock, just saying our transition should change when those guys our in front of the break.

U Zig, I Zag
12-19-2012, 07:48 PM
5:00 left, Bell - on his own, mind you - missed a layup AND *almost* fell on the ground.

jazzdelmar
12-19-2012, 07:49 PM
5:00 left, Bell - on his own, mind you - missed a layup AND *almost* fell on the ground.

and stocks gets crushed....sad ending to this game by the guards...they played poorly

U Zig, I Zag
12-19-2012, 07:51 PM
Holy ####. Pangos - again way too long with the ball - Edi gets it and then bricks a layup.

It's contagious!

jazzdelmar
12-19-2012, 07:53 PM
guards 7-19. another poor performance...drangs 4-6

Baldwinzag
12-19-2012, 07:54 PM
5:00 left, Bell - on his own, mind you - missed a layup AND *almost* fell on the ground.

he doesn't seem to understand how to draw appropriate contact for a foul...considering it takes space and freedom for him to dunk, I don't understand why he leaves his feet so often...either wait for your trailers, stop & jump shoot, or do a better job drawing contact while on the ground...or pass it to a cutter or kick out for a 3pt give 'n go.

I dunno, but its becoming a trend at how poorly our guards finish around the rim on the break, especially vs BCS teams = no chance.

Just as most 'small' team do...I say stop and shoot the ball, they are sub all 6'1"

Baldwinzag
12-19-2012, 07:56 PM
guards 7-19. another poor performance...drangs 4-6

interestingly, Dranginis hasn't logged more than 8 minutes the last 4 games...yet this coming from a guy who is a big-time fan of his game, guard play, and ability to sneak his way to the rim -- and most importantly, finish -- unlike our other guards at the moment.

jazzdelmar
12-19-2012, 08:00 PM
few not sold on drang, i think

Hoopaholic
12-19-2012, 08:03 PM
Few is sold on winning and we are doing just that

U Zig, I Zag
12-19-2012, 08:06 PM
KD has a knack for the game. I think it's a bit fast for him still. If he is built like Edi you don't take him off the floor. Heck, built like Hart and he is Bouldin 2.0.

Hopefully he can bulk up a bit and get caught up with the speed of the game. Even now though, given that Pangos likes to run off screens and is a decent setup shooter I can see situations where KD is the primary handler, but Pangos still falls back on D if a shot goes up. That would all KD to attack the rim (with a 1 or 2 guard on him) and give Pangos a chance to setup for shots from deep. KD is a decent distributor while moving towards the basket. A little tougher against an Ill. or even Baylor coming up, but against some WCC competition I could see KD having his way.

His D isn't where Edi's is, never will be, but I like his offensive potential more than Edi's.

ZagAddict
12-19-2012, 08:08 PM
few not sold on drang, i think

... I'm not sold on this team. It's a shame that this program perenially lacks a 3 and our guards are regressing as the year has gone on. A frontcourt like the Zags have should be a dream for guards and a 3 on the court.

SteelZag
12-19-2012, 08:11 PM
But I was kinda hoping for GU to be over 25 pts. in second half.

ZagaZags
12-20-2012, 02:36 AM
Yah, I have sort of resigned myself to the fact that the fastbreaks will end up 'anti-climatic' - probably not the end of the world. But - Bell hitting the ground like* that can't be good for him (or GU) in the long term.


*I will own up to being a little over indulgent at times describing my Zags... but in this case I am not: GBJ is gonna get hurt one of these times landing on the court like that.

Gary Bell Jr is hurt.

GeorgiaZagFan
12-20-2012, 07:03 AM
few not sold on drang, i think

KD is not ready for "prime time".... Not against the better teams anyway. There are too many times he appears lost .... both on offense and on defense, unsure of himself, ...but we are just 12 games into his first year of playing and he has all the skills to get much better. I see him gaining confidence and playing time as the year goes on, I trust Few will get it right. He knows how the kid is in practice and will know when he's ready for more.

titopoet
12-20-2012, 07:35 AM
Not really worried about it. In March, most good teams have figured out how to get back on D that is why the NCAA Tourney is more about half court execution and D than any fastbreaks. Name the last fastbreak team in the finals. Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, Bulter, Uconn all got there playing tough D and running great sets. Even Kentucky was more about D and half court sets. MSU is always in the mix because they do both. GU needs to continue to work on it half court sets and keep working on pick and roll D. The more I think about it the only one I can remember is the early nineties Running Rebs.

Fastbreaks are the same to the Long Bomb TD pass in football, fun for fans, but not something you want to stake a team on.

More to the point is working on what has killed GU, the pick and roll D. They are starting to hedge more and less switching which I think on this team is the best. We will see how Delly attacks them and that will show what GU needs to do to have more success in March.

U Zig, I Zag
12-20-2012, 11:41 AM
Fastbreaks are the same to the Long Bomb TD pass in football, fun for fans, but not something you want to stake a team on.

Sort of. One, two (sometimes three) high-level guards should be able to figure out a way to score in a fastbreak scenario. This is pretty basic stuff. D-Rav could do it and purposefully take the contact and still score. I am not talking Phi Slamma Jamma stuff here, I am just talking basic pass, pass, shoot.

Again, the biggest problem in the world? No. But its strange that we can't seem to finish those plays all that well.

bballbeachbum
12-20-2012, 04:36 PM
Fastbreaks are the same to the Long Bomb TD pass in football, fun for fans, but not something you want to stake a team on.

agree generally with your post's ideas.

re. the above quote, I understand it a little differently.

Fastbreaks are the result of defense, also from defensive rebounding if you have a UNLV kind of team, but fast breaks are opportunities created thru defense. Not capitalizing can be deflating to the D, like popping the balloon, and not capitalizing often leads to the fastbreak the other way. So it's not really the bomb to me at all, more like rewards for busting ass on D

bostonzagfan
12-20-2012, 05:20 PM
we should run the 3v2 to 2v1 drill in practice.