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Ekrub
12-10-2012, 12:40 PM
We started out too fast and made too many free throws. People on this board have been demanding that these things happen, and look what happened when they got their way: we lost.

primal23
12-10-2012, 12:42 PM
We started out to fast and made too many free throws. People on this board have been demanding that these things happen, and look what happened when they got there way: we lost.

:roll:

Never thought I would have wished for a slow start and good finish, but alas that would have been nice. Felt like we couged that game.

northsidezagfan
12-10-2012, 01:01 PM
Starting too fast is not usually a good thing. It seems like nothing can go wrong, but it's tough to maintain that frantic pace for more than a couple of minutes, which can lead to some frustration. Usually it is better to start slowly and build up to an explosive finish. Less gnashing of teeth and "gloom and doom" afterwards. It will come with experience. Wait I'm on the wrong forum.

TheOtherGreatOne
12-10-2012, 02:07 PM
i didnt understand the 2nd half stratgy.we have 2 players that illinois cant guard. in the second half karnowski did not play and they didnt give olynyck the ball, WHY?

Zag 77
12-10-2012, 02:13 PM
We stopped getting the passes into the paint because Illinois' guards were all over our guards and not letting them make the passes that they wanted.

sittingon50
12-10-2012, 02:16 PM
Hey, don't hijack this epic thread!

Rub, how long have you been a member of Mensa?

;)

Reborn
12-10-2012, 02:19 PM
We stopped getting the passes into the paint because Illinois' guards were all over our guards and not letting them make the passes that they wanted.

This isnt true. You need to watch the game again. We missed wide open 3's in the last 3 minutes. The guards did not look to go inside, but they did have good shots. If they had made those shots, or even half of them we'd be saying very different things. We'd be talking about team balance. It didn't work out that way 'cause those shots were missed.

Ekrub
12-10-2012, 04:41 PM
i didnt understand the 2nd half stratgy.we have 2 players that illinois cant guard. in the second half karnowski did not play and they didnt give olynyck the ball, WHY?

Part of Few's plot. Karnowski is the worst free throw shooter on the team. Missed free throws = victory. I really don't see any other explanation.


Hey, don't hijack this epic thread!

Rub, how long have you been a member of Mensa?

;)

OBGYN tested me when I was still in the womb. Been a member ever since.

Oregonzagnut
12-10-2012, 04:50 PM
We stopped getting the passes into the paint because Illinois' guards were all over our guards and not letting them make the passes that they wanted.

Thats why you become an alley oop threat and learn to pass high and low. Both Karno and Kelly had 4-5 inches on the entire team and entry passes do not have to be threading the needle like Stockton and Pangos try to do.

After watching the game 3 times now, I can see the real issue was speed at every point for our backcourt. They were kinda swarmed. I only saw 3 passes that I could legitimately say were due to their guards making plays, we caused the others. We were hurried and caused our own mistakes. But having guys on both ends able to make the play helps too.

Free Karnoski!! Few will let him loose on Saturday I promise. Karno may foul out or not be in the game the last 5 minutes but he will get his 18-20 minutes. AND his 18-20 pts.

Ezag
12-10-2012, 06:20 PM
We started out too fast and made too many free throws. People on this board have been demanding that these things happen, and look what happened when they got their way: we lost.

How true, back to slow starts and 53% from the line boys....

SteelZag
12-10-2012, 08:53 PM
I do remember something about a "Tortoise and the Hare".

I would like to see KO, PK and Harris on the court at the same time. I don't care what the defensive liabilities might be. Having KO at the top of the key being able to pass into Harris and PK would lead to scores on 75% our possessions. If we just traded basket for basket the opposing team would have to shoot at least 50% from three.

Now, some would say that doesn't take into account TO and fouls but at least I think it is a start.

I am an Econ major but I can only work with small statistical models. Anyone that wants to critique my obsevations and provide more statistical insight is more than welcome.

Oregonzagnut
12-11-2012, 12:00 AM
I do remember something about a "Tortoise and the Hare".

I would like to see KO, PK and Harris on the court at the same time. I don't care what the defensive liabilities might be. Having KO at the top of the key being able to pass into Harris and PK would lead to scores on 75% our possessions. If we just traded basket for basket the opposing team would have to shoot at least 50% from three.

Now, some would say that doesn't take into account TO and fouls but at least I think it is a start.

I am an Econ major but I can only work with small statistical models. Anyone that wants to critique my obsevations and provide more statistical insight is more than welcome.

I agree Steel!! This is exactly my entire thread that suggests it is time to try Harris at the 3 spot, go as athletic as we can and see how that goes. I'm not asking for a start necesarily, but why not start PK, KO, EH, GBJ and KP? It beefs up our perimeter AND beefs up in the paint. I think Harris will do just fine at SF, especially if Kelly is in because Kelly plays like he doesn't want to be at center and we get great ball movement with either Pango or Stockton in at PG.

SteelZag
12-11-2012, 12:20 AM
Ditto!

bballbeachbum
12-11-2012, 10:42 AM
This isnt true. You need to watch the game again. We missed wide open 3's in the last 3 minutes. The guards did not look to go inside, but they did have good shots. If they had made those shots, or even half of them we'd be saying very different things. We'd be talking about team balance. It didn't work out that way 'cause those shots were missed.

agreed about the last 3 minutes, seemed a little desperation crept into the Zags

But in discussing the minutes before the last 3 minutes, I think it was different. the push inside was pretty continuous, the thrust of the offense. It was not abondoned but it was made much more difficult, both on the perimeter through pressure and then in the paint at both the high post or low post thru swarming D if the entry pass connected; KO had 6 turnovers because of that swarming collapsing D they played on both him and E (E had 3 turnovers). As you intimated, the open 3s needed to go to make Illinois pay for that D and they didn't unfortunately.

bballbeachbum
12-11-2012, 10:51 AM
Free Karnoski!! Few will let him loose on Saturday I promise. Karno may foul out or not be in the game the last 5 minutes but he will get his 18-20 minutes. AND his 18-20 pts.

The issue with playing the big Pole is that folks have already learned that they can hack-a-K, so it's flirting with a turnover basically until he gets that fixed (going 0-2 from the line = TO). Not saying he won't be freed, OK? but there are issues with that approach. I see you wrote he might not make the floor at the end of the game (also because of his defensive liabilities at this point), I agree, making establishing him and his rhythm even more of crap shoot during the game because he cannot be relied upon at the end to close...yet. But I agree he may see more action next game. He fixes his FT issues and he could be a big time closer for this team

ZagnetitForce
12-11-2012, 11:08 AM
In today's Spokesman Review there is a tidbit about how hard Karno has been working lately on his free throws. He was a 60% shooter previously. Not great and he admited that, but a lot better than what he is doing now. Staff has made some tweaks....just like changing your golf swing....you usually get a little worse before better.

JPtheBeasta
12-11-2012, 01:51 PM
agreed about the last 3 minutes, seemed a little desperation crept into the Zags

But in discussing the minutes before the last 3 minutes, I think it was different. the push inside was pretty continuous, the thrust of the offense. It was not abondoned but it was made much more difficult, both on the perimeter through pressure and then in the paint at both the high post or low post thru swarming D if the entry pass connected; KO had 6 turnovers because of that swarming collapsing D they played on both him and E (E had 3 turnovers). As you intimated, the open 3s needed to go to make Illinois pay for that D and they didn't unfortunately.

I think your points are being overlooked by many on the board. I remember thinking at some point during the first half that our guards needed to get something going or our bigs were going to keep getting mugged. GBJ was bad from the perimter (1-5 from 3, or something close). Many, many open 3's were passed up on throughout the game, and this is hard to do when the other team is jacking them up at the clip they were.