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View Full Version : Overreact much?



cggonzaga
12-09-2012, 01:02 AM
I'm not defending the team or the coaching staff. Some of the criticisms are deserved. But come on, it's one loss! We played poorly, undisciplined, not a lot of energy coming off an emotionally draining rivalry game on Wednesday. Despite that we were within 4 with 3 minutes to play against the 13th ranked team in the country with an exceptional player playing the game of his career. Tonight sucked but I guarantee we get better because of it. The sky is still the limit for this team!

ZagaZags
12-09-2012, 01:13 AM
I'm not defending the team or the coaching staff. Some of the criticisms are deserved. But come on, it's one loss! We played poorly, undisciplined, not a lot of energy coming off an emotionally draining rivalry game on Wednesday. Despite that we were within 4 with 3 minutes to play against the 13th ranked team in the country with an exceptional player playing the game of his career. Tonight sucked but I guarantee we get better because of it. The sky is still the limit for this team!

This loss moves us down the food chain for seeding in March Madness.

cggonzaga
12-09-2012, 01:33 AM
Not if we beat Baylor, K-State, Butler and Okie St. Not if it's one of 3 or less losses. I'm still confident we don't lose more than 3.

BULLDOG#1
12-09-2012, 10:18 AM
I agree that there's a lot of overreacting going on...

Most of us didn't expect the zags to go undefeated. Yes, it sucks that they didn't bring their best effort last night at a home game and some of the critizism is valid (play to our strengths, Pangos' shot selection, guarding physical guards... blah, blah).

But fans that have watched this team know that there's something a different about this squad and it's not just about talent. I am looking forward to see how they react after a home loss.

The status of this team is pretty good:

- KO is absolutely killing it!
- Harris is as good if not better than most expected.
- Dranginis and Karnowski are solid.
- Team unity is incredibly strong.

OK, so...

- Pangos has regressed a bit.
- Bell should be better than we've seen.
- Dower is under-performing.

Let's keep it real... this team is 9-1 and looks to be the team that can break out of the first weekend of the tourney and advance to Sweet-19 or Elite-8. We're either really spoiled or have unreal expectations to be #####ing and nit-picking a team that's 9-1.

BTW: if Paul plays like that and the rest of the Illini shoot that well, they'll pretty much down any team. No disrespect, because Paul is a heck of a player and they played a great game last night, but odds will catch up with them. We could have played them better, sure, but catching them on a hot shooting night was sort of the luck of the draw...

RenoZag
12-09-2012, 10:20 AM
So my Zag dreams of a perfect December W-L record have fallen by the wayside. A very good team rode a stellar performance of a great player on the Zags' homecourt to a convincing victory.

It's disappointing, sure, but as El Voce often reminded us, sports are the toy department of life. It's a pass-time activity, not life & death.

30-something times a season I get a couple of hours to watch my alma mater play basketball. I yell, cheer, celebrate, agonize, pray, curse, wonder, and exult in their wins and losses.

And then I return to what they use to call on TV "your regularly scheduled programming."

Based on some of the reactions I have read on the MBB today, some members of this on-line community have regularly scheduled programming that values the toy department more than the living.

Two thirds of the season remain, plenty of chances to reach into the toy box.

gonwick
12-09-2012, 10:32 AM
So my Zag dreams of a perfect December W-L record have fallen by the wayside. A very good team rode a stellar performance of a great player on the Zags' homecourt to a convincing victory.

It's disappointing, sure, but as El Voce often reminded us, sports are the toy department of life. It's a pass-time activity, not life & death.

30-something times a season I get a couple of hours to watch my alma mater play basketball. I yell, cheer, celebrate, agonize, pray, curse, wonder, and exult in their wins and losses.

And then I return to what they use to call on TV "your regularly scheduled programming."

Based on some of the reactions I have read on the MBB today, some members of this on-line community have regularly scheduled programming that values the toy department more than the living.

Two thirds of the season remain, plenty of chances to reach into the toy box.

Hey, wait a second, don't bring perspective to my craziness. Doggone it.

gamagin
12-09-2012, 10:35 AM
with a bucket of of sh!t

But the band played on . . .

HenneZag
12-09-2012, 10:38 AM
Obviously a big dissapointment but not the end of the world. If I am this broken down from a loss I can't imagine what the players feel.

Our gameplan last night was pretty friggin terrible first and foremost, no real need to go into that because we all understand that.

Bottom line though is that we still had an opportunity to win or keep the game close, and we just couldn't hit the shots to answer...this happend multiple times last night. The one that sticks out the most is the missed free throw kick out to Pangos where he missed one of many 3 pt attempts that would have ultimately made it a one possesion game. Illinois answered every run we attempted and we just couldn't hit shots in crucial times.

Would have loved to see more Karn last night because he was playing very well, and Drang over Hart especially when we need to score! I love Hart as a player but this was not the type of game where he sees major minutes...I think he shot the ball once in 20 some odd minutes of play...head scratching to me

Saying all that, we have been here before...We have a K State/Ok St/Baylor/Butler...if we can rattle off wins in these games we our right back in the thick of things.

DixieZag
12-09-2012, 10:38 AM
There are some really good points being made, but the only ones that are worth addressing by the TEAM are ones that were valid yesterday afternoon as well as today.

I am not going to rehash all the hair yanking, the ONE thing that is concerning to me, presents itself as both the problem and solution. We really are not all that physically or mentally tough. We wilted in the face of a tough team.

That is a problem.

Here is part of the solution. PShmek IS tough, very tough. I was lucky enough to be at the game - don't know how it transfered across TV. PK LIFTED the team with his offense and his physicallness on defense. PK actually shoved back and dove to the floor, went up over guys. And the guys rallied to his example.

The problem is that this example is our true freshman and it should be Elias Harris and Pangos who is setting that tone. Honestly, I thought several times that all it would take to turn things around last night in the second half is ONE shove back, one jaw-yapping about "get off me" instead of looking at the refs constantly, the refs weren't going to call it, they had to police themselves. Had there been one big scrum, some push backs, the intensity would have picked up, heat up on Illini, etc.

PART of the solution is letting the big Frosh take more and more of the team, he is EARNING it, more PT, more looks. He stood his ground last night with his chin in the air when others looked away.

To me, this demonstrates clearly both the problem (most Zags did not respond to the challenge) and the immediate solution, follow the big fellows example and hand him more responsibility. . . at least he is fighting for it.

siliconzag
12-09-2012, 10:58 AM
are the outlets for over reactors. We are having a group melt down, and it is partly justified, because we muffed a chance to make a big statement last night, and revisionism while tempting, is hardly going to take the sting away.

Brandon Paul did have a career night, and others will too, as long as our defense is as pathetic as it was last night. Stops were few and far between, and the four point play sealed our fate.

I am not sure how many times we will lose, but I think the prospects for a 3 loss season are slim. Kind of depends on how feeble the weak sisters in our conference really are. Paul is a great player and he is going to give other teams fits all year, but the supporting cast for the Illini isn't at the same level of an Indiana or a Duke.

If we delude ourselves into thinking we are a FF team, we are bound to get our knickers in a twist over a performance like last night's. OTH if we get back to the old GU fan's mantra, "Gee it's great to be here, hope we can keep it close," we would be less prone to hyperbolic over reaction.

For myself, last night was far less painful than other disappointments, precisely because my expectations were more realistic. Remember when we were happy to be mentioned in the top 20 for part of the year? Just part of the Cinderella conversation?

HOOTER
12-09-2012, 11:00 AM
Here is part of the solution. PShmek IS tough, very tough. I was lucky enough to be at the game - don't know how it transfered across TV. PK LIFTED the team with his offense and his physicallness on defense. PK actually shoved back and dove to the floor, went up over guys. And the guys rallied to his example.


And yet he sat out most of the game. He played 9 minutes. The only guys that played less were Dranginis and Dower. In that time he managed 9 points (4-5 shooting), 2 rebounds, an assist and a block, and no turnovers. Not bad for 9 minutes really. He only had 2 fouls so that can't be why he spent 31 minutes on the bench. I don't get it.

jim77
12-09-2012, 11:01 AM
Few said at the begining that he was concearned about our toughness....I can now see what the coach meant. When a team that has the size and depth as ours gets worked by 4 guards...its a problem. Remember when JP Batista used to set some stiff picks on guys? When's the last time we saw one of those? Some of our big guys need to come out and show the defense that it might get a little dangerous guarding so close. Zags need to toughen up or they'll drop an egg in Seattle too. How many times this year has a (much) smaller guy yanked Karno to the floor? Karno needs to quit worrying about clobbering somebody and play PHYSICAL. He should OWN the paint.

No this team is not the 99 team. There wasn't a team in college basketball that could intimidate or out muscle them.....Casey cavalry and co. might have lost a few but, you always knew he was there. The 99 team was as tough as they come. Sorry to sound so harsh but, that 2nd half was the best version of "standing around watching Brandon school me" I've ever seen.

The Zags came out this year and played some of the hardest I've seen them ever play.....then all of a sudden their playing "not to lose" Whats up with that?

Did anybody get Brandon's autograph?

spike_jr
12-09-2012, 11:15 AM
I am not overreacting. It is the same reaction I have had numerous times. We lose a game that we could have, should have won by letting one guy go off while we don't adjust to their adjustments. We did not adjust our defense to shore up the three point defense (what we did was obviously not working, so plan B was.....?), nor did we adjust our offense to continue getting the ball inside.

MDABE80
12-09-2012, 12:04 PM
In term of meltdowns....this one isn't much by older standards. We did lose one.
We'll lose more if things go as always. It's not the loss though...not for me. It's HOW we lost. I'm still puzzled as to how we got SO cold and why 1 guy made a big number of shots...some circus, some not.

Meawhile.this is over now. We have lots of big team to prepare for . Few saw what we saw. He'll fix it. Might be that the kids were just as tired from testing.
First time this season they were slow to the ball . Illinois was quicker and seemingly full of energy.

Surely it's a disappointment to not have that perfect record available now. might be good to float back to earth. Now comes the work. The kids know they can get beat and I'm sure they'll be seeing film and hearing about it. Let's move on. We have some HUGE national TV games coming this month. We win most, "we'll be back in the high life again" ( Stevie Winwood) . No worries. We're very good this year. After WSU and Illinois, I just don't know how good. We'll soon see.

stmikezag
12-09-2012, 12:06 PM
I can't imagine the pressures these very young men are under when they hit the floor at McCarthy. I can only thank them for the best they had to offer on that particular night. We had no one who could put a lid on Paul. I think that everyone on the squad had a crack at it. Oh shades of Currey and Jimmer. The thing that bothered me most were the turnovers and the number of times toward the end of the game that several players turned down open shots. I think their confidence was shot by then. If I were a 18 or 19 year old I'd think twice and of course by that time the shot is gone. I am looking forward to the day these same kids will be screaming for the ball under the same circumstances.i would even settle for a bashful Kobe!

siliconzag
12-09-2012, 12:11 PM
I can't imagine the pressures these very young men are under when they hit the floor at McCarthy. I can only thank them for the best they had to offer on that particular night. We had no one who could put a lid on Paul. I think that everyone on the squad had a crack at it"


Very nicely said, St. Mike.

Sili

ID ZAGFAN
12-09-2012, 12:22 PM
I can't imagine the pressures these very young men are under when they hit the floor at McCarthy. I can only thank them for the best they had to offer on that particular night. We had no one who could put a lid on Paul. I think that everyone on the squad had a crack at it. Oh shades of Currey and Jimmer. The thing that bothered me most were the turnovers and the number of times toward the end of the game that several players turned down open shots. I think their confidence was shot by then. If I were a 18 or 19 year old I'd think twice and of course by that time the shot is gone. I am looking forward to the day these same kids will be screaming for the ball under the same circumstances.i would even settle for a bashful Kobe!





Great post!

ZaGranny

Reborn
12-09-2012, 01:13 PM
A good thread with some good points for both sides of the emotional spectrum. I am one who did not like THAT loss, and it's a game, imo the Zags should have won. I find it to be very disappointing that we didn't. I disagree with some as to how good Illinois is. Teams in the Big 10 will be able to defend Paul, and they will take advantage of their post players in ways that Gonzaga failed to do in the latter part of the second half. I think Illinois will finish 4th or 5th in their conference.

Gonzaga totally dominated the inside with our post players, as most of us figured they would. What surprised me is that we went away from them in the most important parts of the game and the guards wanted to be the heros. Most analysts felt that the way for GU to win this game was with our front court and for 2 thirds of the game we did just that. We had their post players in foul trouble throughout the game and kept Griffey, one of their premier shooters, on the bench for most of the game. I thought we could do that and I believed it would be how we would win. I think he got 4 points, and Eqwu, their center, just 2.

My biggest complaint about the Zags is that Pangos wants to be the go to guy, and this is not the first time he's tried to take a game over at the end and it backfired. This is his second game in a row that he has played horrible. If anyone needs a wake up call it's him. Our go to guy or guys should be Harris or Olynyk.

Sure, you can feel sorry for the "poor" boys because they are under so much stress. But that doesn't solve the problem. The attitude of "the poor boys, so stressed because of school" just doesn't fly with me. These are athletes, just like Illinois' are. The best thing about losses is it forces coaches to examine what's going on, and there are problems on the team that need fixed. We can not excuse these problems, nor ignor them and hope we'll "get 'em the next game." Problems do not go away. Change is needed.

I disagee with those fans who believe that this is as good as it gets, and that the Zags can not be one of the best Zag teams ever. They have the talent to be that kind of team, but as of right now, they lack the toughness and heart. But that can change. The Zags, imo, are a better team than Illinois, but they failed to play like it in the latter part of the second half. They didnot play like champions, but played selfish. I guess that's why I'mso disappointed. I expected them to be better,and I still think they are. I think that they did not play their best game at a time that they needed to. If I felt like some fans do, that the Zags will always be a good team but never a great team, I would feel good today too. But I was let down, and I am glad I feel that way because I do feel the Zags will make the changes that HAVE to be made. I won't stop believing in this team.

In my opinion, the Zags got away from playing as a team at the end, and fell into playing one on one for themselves. That is a temptation the Zags sometimes sucuum too, and when they do they loose. This game was not the Zags' best effort, imo. I've seen them play much better, and I've seen them play defense much better. This is not the first game that I"ve seen Pangos play poor defensively. It is becoming a problem I think. Last year he played with passion and played like awarrior. This year I have not seen that. He is weak.

I thought Stockton was in there to be an assist man. Where was that. He looked like he wanted to be an offensive star last night, trying to be a scorer time after time. Ha ha Yeah, that needs to be changed imo.

And what about the turnovers? Our lack of focus at times in that first half with taking care of the ball is becoming a problem that Few needs to pay attention to and fix. It was an example of the "lackadaisical" attitude that I saw prevelent among the team last night. And this certainly is not the first time I've seen it. Yes, there are a lot more games, and a lot more tough ones, and if things don't get different the Zags will lose more.

Oregonzagnut
12-09-2012, 02:06 PM
We all know its a game.
We all know there are human crisis in Sudan.
We are 9-1.
We all love the Zags

But some here do not accept the spectrum of opinion, logic and emotion that each one has here on GUBoards and they choose to instead demean those who are critical of Mark Fews game plan and player choices. We also now the players and staff are more upset than anyone here. so we are all in the same boat. But I will not tolerate being called a d.ou.ch.e noodle and have it be posted as a sticky note by the admins or mods. This type of public rude name-calling cannot be promoted. Admins, Mods... Be objective and professional. If you cannot stay neutral then maybe you cannot referee this board. if there are several posters who have gone overboard, then PM them or suspend them for a week. Don't put a sticky note saying that everyone who doesn't have the same opinion as the mod or PTD is a d.ou.che.

I personally see the same reaction of anger and criticism that many here are commenting about other members, than they are about this "GAME". hypocrites.

If this is a game, and some take it too seriously, then how stupid is it that those people are taking so seriously the fact that others take it too seriously and demean them for it. Now I come on and am grossly offended by how seriously some stuff shirted VIP members and admins are treating their members and using more names to call their own members than any comment said about the game.

The several who are commenting and ripping all the members here have acted far more wrongly, intolerantly and personally degrading than ANY one has posted regarding the players or staffs choices in the game, or suggestions as an armchair coach on what should have been done or could be done in the future.

Section 116
12-09-2012, 08:57 PM
Great post Reno, we surely miss the"Voice of Reason" in circumstances such as these. ElVoce used to tell me he stayed away from the board for two or three days after a loss like Illinois. He knew what would be posted and he wanted no part of it. And there were, and are posters whom he never read...too much negativity!