Harris at the 3

[Oregonzagnut]

At least against opponents like Illinois! It is time to do this in order to match the size and athleticism of bigger, stronger back courts. Man to man, our PG's cannot handle the elite guards. If we want to beat these types of power teams, we have to have a different game plan for these situations. We need our most athletic line-up from top to bottom. and not be forcing our PG always be Pangos and Stockton. If Bell can manage the PG then I say lets step up and try a lineup that utilizes our best size and athleticism at each position and "get by" skill wise at PG.

How about these lineups with Harris at the 3?

5. Karno
4. Olynyk
3. Harris
2. Bell
1. Pangos

Even this.....

5. Karno
4. Kelly
3. Harris
2. Hart
1. Bell

Or this....

Karno
Harris
Kelly
Hart
Bell

Kelly has shown that he can play the 3 IMO.

But Few changed something drastically in the rotation down in Pullman. He continued with it against illinois in spite of what common sense told everyone including or opponent.

These are just ideas and Harris was always considered for the three spot if we needed it. Bell might be a decent PG too. We needed that physicality at the point today.

[CaliforniaZaggin']

I'm not sure I understand. How would playing E at small forward help us guard more athletic guards?

[Oregonzagnut]

I'm not sure I understand. How would playing E at small forward help us guard more athletic guards?

It helps compensate for our lack of and brings Harris closer to their 3. Did you see where Harris is at the 3 that I suggest hart and bell shift down too? We figured we might see Harris at the three this year sometime, and when we run into this type of team, we shift our guys into a larger more athletic lineup so we can use two of our three centers together.

So cali, you would NEVER put Harris at the 3 spot?

[MDABE80]

Those are adjustments that could have been made tonight..........why mess with the starters. It's really just as simple to do the correct substitutions. No worries..all those kids were there and available tonight.

[Oregonzagnut]

Those are adjustments that could have been made tonight..........why mess with the starters. It's really just as simple to do the correct substitutions. No worries..all those kids were there and available tonight.

I'm not suggesting a starting line-up. Sorry I meant bench rotation substitutions to use our depth and bolster our perimeter defense.

Our back court failed, Harris is one of our best defenders, and I think to bring him to the 3 spot occasionally to help the perimeter defense a little bit MAY help. Maybe? Why not try against teams like this?

[Vanzagger]

the bigger line up takes time to perfect. Some of John Cal's teams didn't hit their stride till mid season but he stuck with the concept.

We should have been going big vs the South Dakota Techs of the world getting some confidence. Now it's just reactive and probably too late.

Expectations have been lowered again so no pressure.

[Oregonzagnut]

the bigger line up takes time to perfect. Some of John Cal's teams didn't hit their stride till mid season but he stuck with the concept.

We should have been going big vs the South Dakota Techs of the world getting some confidence. Now it's just reactive and probably too late.

Expectations have been lowered again so no pressure.

Still though, I think Harris at the 3 and rotating our bigs between the 4-5 is something we should try against teams like this. We will see this at Kansas St OKSt and to a lesser extent Baylor and Butler.

It doesn't have to be perfected. It just has to compete. What we did tonight was just plain wrong, IMO. Bell can feed the post, hit the three and defend the perimeter. Harris moving to the SF position brings him out to the perimeter too where his top defense is clearly needed.

Hart is a no brainer at the 2 when we need tough physical play.

I like Karno, Kelly, Harris, Hart and Bell if we are going t try and match our most physical backcourt opposition.

[ValencyLovesZagsInAtlanta]

So Now the Fun Starts...

At least against opponents like Illinois! It is time to do this in order to match the size and athleticism of bigger, stronger back courts. Man to man, our PG's cannot handle the elite guards. If we want to beat these types of power teams, we have to have a different game plan for these situations. We need our most athletic line-up from top to bottom. and not be forcing our PG always be Pangos and Stockton. If Bell can manage the PG then I say lets step up and try a lineup that utilizes our best size and athleticism at each position and "get by" skill wise at PG.

How about these lineups with Harris at the 3?

5. Karno
4. Olynyk
3. Harris
2. Bell
1. Pangos

Even this.....

5. Karno
4. Kelly
3. Harris
2. Hart
1. Bell

Or this....

Karno
Harris
Kelly
Hart
Bell

Kelly has shown that he can play the 3 IMO.

But Few changed something drastically in the rotation down in Pullman. He continued with it against illinois in spite of what common sense told everyone including or opponent.

These are just ideas and Harris was always considered for the three spot if we needed it. Bell might be a decent PG too. We needed that physicality at the point today.

On our journey to the ATL????

I agree with you that the mind game is most important OZN and will make the difference in a winning performance against 4**** and 5***** teams. RISK, confidence, strategy, tactics and decision making come to the forefront after you get beat and adjustments are needed. The last college hoops team that didn't have to recover from a loss was Indiana's Bobby Knight team before I was born in 1976 with a starting lineup of Benson, May. Wilkerson, Buckner and Abernathy!

Thinking ahead and measuring or remembering this loss to Illinois should help devise strategy based on a winning formulae. Playing championship caliber basketball takes time. Sure it is great to "blow the opposition away" but this does not happen easily and if it doesn't happen are you ready and able to work yourself into a winning position? That is what makes your post so beautiful! Most of the time it takes time and patience. I understand precedent has been set in previous years on strategy ect ect... but this is a new year and a new team and a new beginning! We will share this joyous ride together even if we have the occasional learning experience. This is our year I know it!

Zags self belief is essential. If you don't think you can win championships then you probably won't. Confidence is powerful and a strong attribute of a champion. Part of this mind set is to predict what the opponent will do next. Run a few scenarios through your head and come up with a definite plan… be prepared to take RISK if the reward is great (VALUE) but equally important is RESPECT for the opponents skill. This is not a weakness but a strength in your understanding and maturity as a player and team.

Everything is a chess match and I also have some strategies relating to personnel and tactics! Just don't want to bore anyone or interfere with the negative Nellies or Doubting Thomas's.

I love reading your analytical posts and fans like you deserve to reach the top of the mountain as fans. One step at a time. There are always ways to get the message across in the world I live in.

Warmest Always
Vxo

[MickMick]

Does Harris at three stop Brandon Paul?


Nope.


A solution looking for a problem.

[Chicken Ball]

Quickness

Size on the perimeter was only part of the problem. Quickness was even more of a problem. Harris at the three exacerbates our quickness deficit.

[Oregonzagnut]

Size on the perimeter was only part of the problem. Quickness was even more of a problem. Harris at the three exacerbates our quickness deficit.

Harris at the three and putting hart at 2 and Bell at the point bolsters our quickness IMO.

[BTB]

I don't think Harris is quick enough to guard an athletic 3 or quick enough to drive on an athletic 3, both of which would hurt us big time. Hart also seems to match up better with 3s than 2s to me. I wouldn't mind seeing Bell play the point though.

[Oregonzagnut]

I don't think Harris is quick enough to guard an athletic 3 or quick enough to drive on an athletic 3, both of which would hurt us big time. Hart also seems to match up better with 3s than 2s to me. I wouldn't mind seeing Bell play the point though.

I'm also trying to get Karno and Kelly in to dominate the inside. that means either Kelly or Harris has to be a the three. Hart may guard the three better but I am talking about coming up with a plan where we hit a team like Illinois. No the normal 3 that Hart defends. If Hart is one of our best defender then he must shift to guard the most critical spots and their Paul Abrahms and Richardson killed us. Period. If you don't throw our best defenders (Bell Hart Harris) at guys like that, they will do what they did again.

But at least if our bigger back court gets beat, we would have a front court that could score at a 65% clip and stop drives by blocking their slashers.

I fail to see how shifting Harris to the three spot makes us that much slower when we were getting beat all night and had no answer for their 45% 3 pt shooting.

Oh wait......how about 65% shooting from the paint. Karno was 80%, 4/5 in 9 minutes. Keep Karno in, keep Olynyk in, keep Harris in, Keep Hart in, Keep Bell in. Then rotate like crazy to keep the defensive legs in the game while feeding the bigs and rebounding.

Seems like you have to have that lineup at some point against the toughest teams in the nation.

BTW I am not saying it is THE solution and yes there are problems but I see it as something they should attempt to deal with far over matched guards like Illinois has.

Plus Bell, Hart and Harris have all shown to hit the 3 ball so I'm not worried there. Kelly can hit apparently too.

[Reborn]

I do agree that changes need to be made. It will be interesting to see what happens. I don't like Edi starting,and in fact I don't like him playing at all. And I don't like Stockton playing as much as he does, nor Dower. Dower plays absolutely no defense.

I would try to build Kyle Dranginis's confidence up. He is 6' 5", and if he is given the playing time I think he can develop into a good 3 by the end of the season. I think it's the best chance we have. Dranginis will not gain confidence in the role he is now in. It's very similar to other Zags we have lost in the past because of Few: Arop and Gibbs are two that come to mind. I felt that after Dranginis had that great game that Few would reward him, and yet he didn't. He kept him in the same role.

I like Mike Hart for a sub who plays in a situaltional role. He is getting too many minutes in a game like last night's.

Karnowski also need more minutes. I agree with everyone that he played great last night. to move Karnowski in, would mean to move either Harris or Olynyk to the 3. We would have to play Zone....Honestly, I don't know why Few never tried the match up zone in the second half...I thought it looked better than our man to man looked.

Knowing Few, I DO NOT EXPECT any changes. I think he's waiting for Coleman to be the 3 next year. Maybe Few is content with just winning one game in the NCAA tournament.

[BTB]

Maybe Few is content with just winning one game in the NCAA tournament.

I don't get why people keep saying stuff like this.. do we really think that we want to win more than Few or the players want to??