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jazzdelmar
12-08-2012, 08:28 PM
kelly was awesome. just sayin'

zagapotomus
12-08-2012, 08:29 PM
and underutilized

Ezag
12-08-2012, 08:29 PM
kelly was awesome. just sayin'

Yes just not enough Kelly. Should have given him or Harris the ball more

Zags11
12-08-2012, 08:30 PM
+100,000. Poor job of using our real strengths.

Birddog
12-08-2012, 08:30 PM
Yes just not enough Kelly. Should have given him or Harris the ball more
True Dat

Das Zagger
12-08-2012, 08:30 PM
7 feet tall, one block and six turnovers.


He makes Lurch from the Addams Family look like AI.


But yeah, other than that, he was stellar.

Martin Centre Mad Man
12-08-2012, 08:37 PM
His turnovers were the one drawback to his play, but he was our best player in every other aspect of the game. I would even argue that at least a couple of those turnovers should have been defensive foul calls. That air ball he forced on Chris Paul that became a shot clock violation was an outstanding hustle play.

In any event, our best plays were the ones where Karnowski, K.O. and Harris touched the ball and K.O. was the most productive of the three. If we had found a way to feed him more often inside of the three-point line between the fifteen-minute mark and the five-minute mark, they might have fouled out the Illini big men with enough time on the clock for that to matter. As it was, by the time those Illini players left the game, it was too late to capitalize.

TM27
12-08-2012, 08:40 PM
Just saying but.... two of those turnovers were absolutely abysmal 3 second calls. Reply shows he clearly re-established

CaliforniaZaggin'
12-08-2012, 08:44 PM
He could be a WCC POY candidate as a senior.

GeorgiaZagFan
12-08-2012, 08:46 PM
kelly was awesome. just sayin'

..and he was credited with 6 TO's ..but I believe at LEAST 4 of them should have been fouls.. On one Off. rebound he was passing it back out and the defender hit arm/ball and they called an over and back. Another time he got a rebound and dribbled out and a defender dropped down and slapped down on him hard and as he fell to the ground they called him for traveling. I thought they let Illinois play much more physical than they let the Zags. PK gets a perfect block ...foul. #13 grabbed arm at least 4 times (twice on GLE) causing TO's and he was called for ONE foul for the entire game.

GeorgiaZagFan
12-08-2012, 08:49 PM
Just saying but.... two of those turnovers were absolutely abysmal 3 second calls. Reply shows he clearly re-established

I watched back on TiVo and one of them was a good call ...the other was not. But both over-and-back calls were bogus ..both were deflected and should have been no calls or fouls against Illinois ...

MDABE80
12-08-2012, 08:55 PM
Kelly has imroved So much. He's trying So hard. He's done a good job. Hope nobody's trying to make a backhanded.............well I hope Kelly continues to excell. He's been a nice surprise.

TM27
12-08-2012, 08:58 PM
I watched back on TiVo and one of them was a good call ...the other was not. But both over-and-back calls were bogus ..both were deflected and should have been no calls or fouls against Illinois ...

Lets agree to disagree... as this had no bearing on the outcome of the game. But the closer of the two calls (the first 3 second call) occurs around 16:30. Pause it at 16:36 and you will see kelly's left foot outside the key, and then he continues to keep it outside. The call is then made 2 seconds later. No bearing on the outcome but if you are going to call 3 seconds it better be closer to 10 seconds than 3 is my thought......hate the 3 second call.

BULLDOG#1
12-08-2012, 09:35 PM
He could be a WCC POY candidate as a senior.

He is a candidate this year.

BTB
12-08-2012, 09:37 PM
He is a candidate this year.

+1

Vanzagger
12-08-2012, 10:45 PM
needs a maroon shirt

Zag79
12-09-2012, 12:57 AM
7 feet tall, one block and six turnovers.


He makes Lurch from the Addams Family look like AI.


But yeah, other than that, he was stellar.

At least half of the turnovers are on the guards, terrible passes skimming on the ground or into double coverage. Need better feeds, and more of them to make this team use it strengths properly.

Martin Centre Mad Man
12-09-2012, 04:12 AM
At least half of the turnovers are on the guards, terrible passes skimming on the ground or into double coverage. Need better feeds, and more of them to make this team use it strengths properly.

When our passers threw the ball high to Karnowski and K.O., so that they could, catch, turn, and shoot without lowering the ball, Illinois absolutely could not stop those plays. When our passers through the ball at waist-level and below, we turned it over.

Zag79
12-11-2012, 09:12 PM
When our passers threw the ball high to Karnowski and K.O., so that they could, catch, turn, and shoot without lowering the ball, Illinois absolutely could not stop those plays. When our passers through the ball at waist-level and below, we turned it over.

Exactly, which is why I still don't understand letting cold shooter fire at will. I don't want Kevin to stop shooting when we need him, but in a game we can clearly win by continuing to dominate the post we need to do so. Kelly has become a force on the floor that would start on almost any team in the county, use him like one.

flytiezag
12-11-2012, 09:56 PM
Kellys 2 three second calls were wrong.He had one foot outside key other foot he cleared. He should probably clear foot more noticably.He was fouled on traveling call and one pass was very low hard to handle we can cut him a little slack on turn overs.

Ziggy
12-11-2012, 10:19 PM
7 feet tall, one block and six turnovers.


He makes Lurch from the Addams Family look like AI.


But yeah, other than that, he was stellar.

House Troll, Just sayin'

SteelCityZag
12-12-2012, 05:37 AM
When our passers threw the ball high to Karnowski and K.O., so that they could, catch, turn, and shoot without lowering the ball, Illinois absolutely could not stop those plays. When our passers through the ball at waist-level and below, we turned it over.

Agreed. Getting the ball to a big in the proper manner (not too low, while the defender is on the big's hip) is known as an entry pass. We're not very good at them as a team. Few has stated that Stockton is our best at it, and he's right. This is the reason we are getting abused by bigger guards (WSU, Illinois). It's the key to beating us and WSU exposed this. Bigger, longer guards deny our entry passes leaving us with no option but to shoot from the outside...usually threes, because our dribble penetration hasn't been much to speak of either. This is how you beat Gonzaga this year. It completely shuts down our offense.

Sure hope they are addressing this in practice because as talented as I think this team is, if we can't run the offense through our bigs, we can be beaten. Entry passes (and running sets that free up our small but talented guards to make them) are the keys to our improvement and any deep run hopes we have in March, imo.

cjm720
12-12-2012, 06:20 AM
He really dedicated his RS year to bulk up and learn post skills. I've always held him in high regard as a player, and his improvement is short of staggering.

Zagdawg
12-12-2012, 06:38 AM
+1

Baldwinzag
12-12-2012, 06:43 AM
KO = WCC POY? It could happen. He's already our best shooter, possibly most skilled, and one of our better rebounding -- an all-around player who won't be stopped in that league.

However, the award has become somewhat of a "WCC Lifetime Achievement" in the last few years, so tough to contend with his teammate Elias Harris or others in conference who will be deserving...

LongIslandZagFan
12-12-2012, 06:50 AM
Ahem... Was saying this before he hit the floor this year. :D

GoZags
12-12-2012, 06:55 AM
Ahem... Was saying this before he hit the floor this year. :D

So was Mark Few ........ so there you have it ..... two great basketball minds, thinking alike.
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Edited to add: E6 (booted it) on my first attempt to add an emicon to the end of my post. The little smilely guy showed up top instead. Someday I'll have this figured out. (At least I didn't hit the upchuck button by accident).

bballbeachbum
12-12-2012, 06:55 AM
he played great.

I won't write off his to's on bogus refs or the guards tho. when the guards are facing that kind of length and pressure, the bigs need to post stronger and better; they have to adjust too, knowing that our smaller guards are up against it; help them. Then they've got to be strong with the ball, both on the catch and with everything after the catch. For example, on the high post entry pass turnover from GBj (which wasn't great) that has this board blaming him for a lazy pass, KO waited for the ball to get to him (which wasn't great either). To me, that TO was on them both. KO earned it.

as the game wore on and Illinois committed to forcing the game to the perimeter with their pressure/collapsing swarming D like they did and took away what had been working, the typical play (if there is no real dribble penetration threat) is to post to get the D scrambling and then kick out to the open guy, not post and take on 2 or three defenders off the bounce (remember Rob?); the Zags needed to make one of those open 3s they were dared to take in the second half...the ball game. It's not Meech out there, the strategy was good, just poor execution on the shots, my opinion

anyway, those difficulties finding the post guys as the game wore on sped the team up, and not just the guards. Forcing the feed to the post would have been fine, but it would have led to an open 3 probably if the Zags executed well vs. that D, not some dominant post up move vs. 2 or 3 swarming defenders, my opinion.

so still would have had to make an open 3, or some tough late FTs after getting hacked. not just throw it in to KO or E and they go off. maybe, but the D seemed stacked to stop that.

and since when did GBj shooting critical shots become an issue? He's made more of those than any Zag on this team, so I've no issue with him shooting the rock in critical situations...none. he missed this time

but I sense most of you think I'm wrong and don't know what I'm talking about. I can live with that :D

GO ZAGS!!!

cjm720
12-12-2012, 07:21 AM
good post,bball. feed the post opens the 3 ball. either way, we have to make our 3s at a higher clip than we did.

LongIslandZagFan
12-12-2012, 07:23 AM
So was Mark Few ........ so there you have it ..... two great basketball minds, thinking alike.
-----------------------------------------
Edited to add: E6 (booted it) on my first attempt to add an emicon to the end of my post. The little smilely guy showed up top instead. Someday I'll have this figured out. (At least I didn't hit the upchuck button by accident).

IMHO, Few is not one given to hyperbole. If he said KO was most improved and the best player in practice last year... It's worth listening to.

ZenZag
12-12-2012, 07:32 AM
another aspect of this.....and another reason to feed him early and often.....he is an excellent free throw shooter.....

Das Zagger
12-12-2012, 08:25 AM
House Troll, Just sayin'

You're pressing a bit here friend, maybe sit the next few posts out?

cjm720
12-12-2012, 09:24 AM
IMHO, Few is not one given to hyperbole. If he said KO was most improved and the best player in practice last year... It's worth listening to.

Same with KD...I want some more.

gamagin
12-12-2012, 09:46 AM
he played great.

I won't write off his to's on bogus refs or the guards tho. when the guards are facing that kind of length and pressure, the bigs need to post stronger and better; they have to adjust too, knowing that our smaller guards are up against it; help them. Then they've got to be strong with the ball, both on the catch and with everything after the catch. For example, on the high post entry pass turnover from GBj (which wasn't great) that has this board blaming him for a lazy pass, KO waited for the ball to get to him (which wasn't great either). To me, that TO was on them both. KO earned it.

as the game wore on and Illinois committed to forcing the game to the perimeter with their pressure/collapsing swarming D like they did and took away what had been working, the typical play (if there is no real dribble penetration threat) is to post to get the D scrambling and then kick out to the open guy, not post and take on 2 or three defenders off the bounce (remember Rob?); the Zags needed to make one of those open 3s they were dared to take in the second half...the ball game. It's not Meech out there, the strategy was good, just poor execution on the shots, my opinion

anyway, those difficulties finding the post guys as the game wore on sped the team up, and not just the guards. Forcing the feed to the post would have been fine, but it would have led to an open 3 probably if the Zags executed well vs. that D, not some dominant post up move vs. 2 or 3 swarming defenders, my opinion.

so still would have had to make an open 3, or some tough late FTs after getting hacked. not just throw it in to KO or E and they go off. maybe, but the D seemed stacked to stop that.

and since when did GBj shooting critical shots become an issue? He's made more of those than any Zag on this team, so I've no issue with him shooting the rock in critical situations...none. he missed this time

but I sense most of you think I'm wrong and don't know what I'm talking about. I can live with that :D

GO ZAGS!!!

Spot on. This is the essence of what Few said. We had our looks, shots and opportunties. One such shot, KP's, was set up during a timeout. He got the open look & took the shot that would have brought us to a one point deficit. MF said something like "it might have been interesting to see what happened if we made it."

The implication being and the answer to the question, imo, being that we were where we needed to be, with the ball in the hands of our best shooter, when we needed to be. What else can we hope to do except to make the shot(s).

It happens.