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View Full Version : Pangos has either regressed or been exposed



thespywhozaggedme
12-08-2012, 08:21 PM
His basketball IQ is very poor; jacking up random threes, bad shot selection, unable to feed the post and is a sieve on defense. I dunno how Few can fix that.

awberke
12-08-2012, 08:23 PM
By taking him out when he feels it is necessary, but replacing him with stocks isn't always a better option.

zagapotomus
12-08-2012, 08:23 PM
Please please please explain why we don't utilize our strengths (7 footers - like multiple). That was unbelievable

GZag
12-08-2012, 08:24 PM
Pangos is not a PG, he is a shooter.

Ekrub
12-08-2012, 08:25 PM
We win this game if we fed the bigs and didn't F-ing turn it over so much. Very winnable game. Once Paul's bank three went in the first half I had a sneaking suspicion those threes were going to keep coming. But even with that, very winnable. Shame few and co didn't stress feeding the bigs more

Ziggy
12-08-2012, 08:25 PM
pretender alert

zagapotomus
12-08-2012, 08:25 PM
We win this game if we fed the bigs and didn't F-ing turn it over so much. Very winnable game. Once Paul's bank three went in the first half I had a sneaking suspicion those threes were going to keep coming. But even with that, very winnable. Shame few and co didn't stress feeding the bigs more

Unspeakable...best back court in the nation?

Zagnailler
12-08-2012, 08:26 PM
His basketball IQ is very poor; jacking up random threes, bad shot selection, unable to feed the post and is a sieve on defense. I dunno how Few can fix that.

I think you have brown eyes.

Virginia Zags Fan
12-08-2012, 08:26 PM
Illinois did a good job of coming out and pressuring our guards to deny the easy entry passes.

Ezag
12-08-2012, 08:28 PM
Illinois did a good job of coming out and pressuring our guards to deny the easy entry passes.

That and hitting some threes keys to beating us

GZag
12-08-2012, 08:30 PM
Losing hurts. Live with it dude! Pangos is the se person

Zags11
12-08-2012, 08:32 PM
We are good. We didnt use the strengths of post. Game? 75-71, hart offensive board and Pangos clanked it.

Das Zagger
12-08-2012, 08:33 PM
Bardo said he got a ton of exposure learning from Steve Nash on the Canadian national team.


Nash has been wearing a suit all season, how has Kevin's dress skills been this season?

MickMick
12-08-2012, 08:39 PM
1) Mathis Kieta.....6'5" long armed defender would be a senior guard. Senior really means something in this context. Hated to see him go. Hated to see him disenfranchised. Mark Few was looking at the bench to find a guy to match up with Brandon Paul and he found there was no one there.

2) A few fans recently fell in love with a shrimp guard that ended up choosing Penn State instead. Now you know why I was relieved he didn't land here.

3) Kevin's game is offense. He has to deliver with assists and/or points.

4) GU has no one that can match up with Oklahoma State's Marcus Smart and that game is in Stillwater.

5) If GU doesn't remain dedicated, for an entire game, for the entire season, to working the ball inside, they are toast in post season. I'm talking first weekend toast.

6) GU must, absolutely must, get Karnowski up to speed and totally involved well before March.

7) Brandon Paul is a sure fire NBA starter. As good as any player in the country.

8) GU was not going to go undefeated. They have an entire season to minimize weaknesses and maximize strengths. That means not jacking up threes early in the shot clock and working the bigs inside.

9) VCU made a final four with less talent and less size (equivalent size at guard). They got hot at the right time and got some good match ups.

10) Big time kudos to Illinois. This night is about them. Brandon Paul could pull a Carmello Anthony and carry that team to the finish. Very, very impressed.

allnet59
12-08-2012, 08:39 PM
We are good. We didnt use the strengths of post. Game? 75-71, hart offensive board and Pangos clanked it.

I agree with this post. We get it inside put up a two and maybe get fouled and a three point play. Instead chuck it up and were headed down the court the other direction.

CaliforniaZaggin'
12-08-2012, 08:41 PM
His basketball IQ is very poor; jacking up random threes, bad shot selection, unable to feed the post and is a sieve on defense. I dunno how Few can fix that.

Cool story, bro.

zagapotomus
12-08-2012, 08:43 PM
Cool story, bro.

Chapter 1

Martin Centre Mad Man
12-08-2012, 08:43 PM
Pangos is a smart player. He was outplayed by a likely NBA first-rounder. He will learn and play smarter going forward. Something tells me that we will regard this as his worst night of the year by season's end.

Worthington
12-08-2012, 08:48 PM
I don't want to be too hard on him, but he was completely exposed this game. That being said, Brandon Paul is an NBA player without a doubt and the backcourt matchups tonight were brutal for us. I hope Pangos learns a lot from this game. Mainly I hope he can get better at attacking the rim because it is painful to see him just being a jump shooter when he has it in his game to do so much more. It's going to be extremely interesting to see how he bounces back.

MDABE80
12-08-2012, 09:02 PM
Cool story, bro.

lolllllllllllllll

JPtheBeasta
12-08-2012, 09:07 PM
We got to the line and fouled out their bigs by exploiting our inside presence. We shot decently from the field subjectively (I don't recall the final numbers). There was just too much Paul tonight. I've never seen so many strips and tie ups against us- either fast hands or swallowed whistles. Either way, if we take care of the ball it is a ten point game at the half and Illinois is much less confident going into the second.

I thought it was great that our guys didn't give in to tempation and start jacking up threes when Illinois came out hot in the second half. I feel the guys stuck with the game plan. We really had no answer for Paul and were too sloppy on our end.

I was coveting a rangy, athletic guard in this game. We have one one the bench in Dranginis, but I guess he wasn't ready. Stockton and Pangos on the floor at the same time against a team like this is not going to get the job done most times, in my opinion.

Congrats to Illinois. As long as their shots are falling they are going to be a tough team to beat this year.

TM27
12-08-2012, 09:15 PM
We have one one the bench in Dranginis, but I guess he wasn't ready. Stockton and Pangos on the floor at the same time against a team like this is not going to get the job done most times, in my opinion.


It is fun to speculate. I would have liked to see KD play for Hart....Orrr have Hart keep his defender honest by shooting (and making a shot) occasionally.

Rotate the 1 and 2 between our 6 footers based on who can feed the post. As far the O side goes I would have liked to see Karn more as his footwork and post moves would have done a lot more damage to the Illini foul situation. Rotate EH, KO, and PK. Dower's energy level is too low to be depended on ... whether that is flu or effort (although when he brings it, it is another level).

As said in another thread I think losses can be a good thing for a young team and it appears that there is quite a bit to learn from this game.

bostonzagfan
12-08-2012, 09:19 PM
need to get KD ready to play in a game like this.

GLE needs to figure things out.

I wish Hart could shoot.

drnoe
12-08-2012, 09:20 PM
Zags, for the first time in quite a few seasons, have an inside game with guys that can consistently finish. They need to seriously take advantage of that, especially when their 3 balls are falling off the mark. The boys will be all right with some tweaking here & there. As for WCC play, nothing to worry about unless they get complacent. They ran into a team with a superlative perimeter game tonight. Paul was a beast, & they simply couldn't stop him. My biggest concern is the Zags' seemingly inability to effectively deal with teams with athletically superior guard play. The teams with the best guards usually make it to the Final 4. The Zags will learn from this loss, & will figure out why this is a game they should have won.

Pleasant Peninsula
12-08-2012, 09:22 PM
eh... my only ##### is that there were a lot of threes taken that should have been made. big threes. that needed to be made.

and they weren't.

Oregonzagnut
12-08-2012, 09:30 PM
Illinois did a good job of coming out and pressuring our guards to deny the easy entry passes.

Yes they did but we need to keep doing it even if they pressure us. Everyone is going to get pressured. Pangos did so we might as well use the bigs to be taller and closer to the hoop. Few quit on the inside game too quickly, yet he allows our hurried and outmatched back court continue on and on.

Edi needs to be a defender. He is rushing shots. his athleticism needs to be used defensively if we want to win again this month. Dower has to learn to run and run hard on D.

I want to see ball screens, pick and rolls and a post presence on both sides with Karno and Kelly or Karno and Dower.

It is time for Harris to play the 3 spot because we need his size and defensive strength against the bigger guards. If we always put Harris into the 4 no mater what, we lose the power and potential effectiveness of a Karno/Kelly, Kelly/Dower, Dower/Karno front court.

Karno DOMINATED THE PAINT!!!!! 9 minutes on 4/5 shooting!! a point a minute!!

westside-zagfan
12-08-2012, 09:38 PM
Oh my god. One loss and it is world war 3!! Our sophomore PG got taken down by a senior who will be in the NBA in a year, playing not starting. (That sure firer nba starter talk is really foolish by some of you). Let's all settle down and let the immediate emotion of a tough loss go away.

People who are yelling oh we are to small to go anywhere in the tourney!! Yeah because the NCAA is just filled with 6'3 pg's and 6'6 sg's, god i am so affraid to face monmouth in the first round and all their height! Sarcasm. Height is such an arbitrary thing in the game of basketball. i have seen small Pitt teams lead the nation in rebounding with a 6'6 center named dejuan blair. I have watched a gonzaga team with size get taken down by a guard oriented team with no size (Davidson).

Just last week we were talking final 4 or bust now the talk shifts to we wont win a game in march with our midget guards. PLEASE STOP being so foolish guys. Our guards size is fine. We don't need Gibbs back and we don't need Arop or keita back.

It's the NCAA not the NBA not all guards need to be 6'6.

Besides the main point shouldn't be "ohh why are our guards not tall enough" The main point should be to not turn the ball over. I don't care if the PG is 5'2 or 6'9 if you turn the ball over 16 times you aren't gonna beat anyone!

Don't turn the ball over, make free throws, win the game. Our guys can do it even though some of you think they are midgets. Remember these are 18-21 year olds that few is dealing with. Nights like this happen when dealing with 18-21 year olds.

FGZagDad
12-08-2012, 09:42 PM
Paul is good, very good. Pangos is smart and a baller, he will figure it out and learn from this. Can't quite figure folks who abandon ship when the water gets rough. Next up KSU in Seattle. Few will have them ready, hopefully going a bit deeper into his bench. All is not lost, the sky isn't falling...

mainer6
12-08-2012, 09:43 PM
but it makes me feel good to say that it really is pretty meaningless. Hope the team keeps winning as my beer tastes better when they do.

zagzilla
12-08-2012, 10:20 PM
KP is 5-23 his last 2 games.

Ouch

ZZ

Oregonzagnut
12-08-2012, 10:29 PM
No one is abandoning ship. Seriously, some of us people have been here for the Zags over 25 years.

Don't confuse critique, bewilderment and hating to lose with abandoning ship. We get 1 day to ##### and moan, meltdown, and point fingers.

Vanzagger
12-08-2012, 11:12 PM
guards.

I would still take GBJ or Pangos as my starting pg any day of the week. That would also give me one of the best back up pgs in the country.

Put 4 athletic skilled horses around them and we have big time potential.

Keep them confident and let them play

D up baby!

Oregonzagnut
12-08-2012, 11:23 PM
guards.

I would still take GBJ or Pangos as my starting pg any day of the week. That would also give me one of the best back up pgs in the country.

Put 4 athletic skilled horses around them and we have big time potential.

Keep them confident and let them play

D up baby!

That is why I like the physicality and athleticism as a substitution team of Karno, Kelly, Harris, Hart, Bell.

Try Bell at point to be more physical even if we sacrifice a little finesse. We didn't need finesse tonight. We needed power, drives, ball screens and post presence.

Zag79
12-09-2012, 01:10 AM
Oh my god. One loss and it is world war 3!! Our sophomore PG got taken down by a senior who will be in the NBA in a year, playing not starting. (That sure firer nba starter talk is really foolish by some of you). Let's all settle down and let the immediate emotion of a tough loss go away.

People who are yelling oh we are to small to go anywhere in the tourney!! Yeah because the NCAA is just filled with 6'3 pg's and 6'6 sg's, god i am so affraid to face monmouth in the first round and all their height! Sarcasm. Height is such an arbitrary thing in the game of basketball. i have seen small Pitt teams lead the nation in rebounding with a 6'6 center named dejuan blair. I have watched a gonzaga team with size get taken down by a guard oriented team with no size (Davidson).

Just last week we were talking final 4 or bust now the talk shifts to we wont win a game in march with our midget guards. PLEASE STOP being so foolish guys. Our guards size is fine. We don't need Gibbs back and we don't need Arop or keita back.

It's the NCAA not the NBA not all guards need to be 6'6.

Besides the main point shouldn't be "ohh why are our guards not tall enough" The main point should be to not turn the ball over. I don't care if the PG is 5'2 or 6'9 if you turn the ball over 16 times you aren't gonna beat anyone!

Don't turn the ball over, make free throws, win the game. Our guys can do it even though some of you think they are midgets. Remember these are 18-21 year olds that few is dealing with. Nights like this happen when dealing with 18-21 year olds.

Allowing 85 points to a team, one player to go off for 35, and almost 43% from three will be tough to beat even if you hold onto the rock and make a few more free throws. You should never allow 85 at home, I don't care who you play. That loss was on the game plan as much as anything. These players can win big games like this, but they have to be given the best chance to win.

MickMick
12-09-2012, 02:00 AM
I wrote a post roughly a year ago and took a bit of grief for it.

Pangos set the bar too high as a freshman. I expected he would face a situation similar to Harris. I couldn't envision Kevin getting a lot better and remarked he had reached his ceiling early. The only directions he could go was down or remain the same. So far, it looks like his level has gone down.

Kevin is not playing at his freshman level right now. He was better last year. Much better. What is alarming is that I thought Bell had a much higher ceiling and would catch up with Kevin this season. Well...he caught up but it isn't because Gary improved all that much, but rather because of a much lower standard to meet.

I'm tempted to dig up that old thread and link it just to show how much grief I took for writing it. This is quickly becoming "Elias Harris like" sophmore season version two.

cggonzaga
12-09-2012, 02:55 AM
I wrote a post roughly a year ago and took a bit of grief for it.

Pangos set the bar too high as a freshman. I expected he would face a situation similar to Harris. I couldn't envision Kevin getting a lot better and remarked he had reached his ceiling early. The only directions he could go was down or remain the same. So far, it looks like his level has gone down.

Kevin is not playing at his freshman level right now. He was better last year. Much better. What is alarming is that I thought Bell had a much higher ceiling and would catch up with Kevin this season. Well...he caught up but it isn't because Gary improved all that much, but rather because of a much lower standard to meet.

I'm tempted to dig up that old thread and link it just to show how much grief I took for writing it. This is quickly becoming "Elias Harris like" sophmore season version two.


Hahaha. Right because 10 games into his sophomore season makes a career! Good Lord! We seem to forget these 2 guards are 19 year old sophomores still learning this college game. Can they play better? Sure. These 2 kids will have a lot to say before this year is over though!

bartruff1
12-09-2012, 05:48 AM
Illinois did a good job of coming out and pressuring our guards to deny the easy entry passes. I don't believe Bardo or the fans know anything the Coaches don't.... the coaches can only coach and the players can only play as well as their skills allow... Illinois is simply a better team when they hit those 3's....I see the sun coming up here this morning.

JPtheBeasta
12-09-2012, 05:55 AM
I don't believe Bardo or the fans know anything the Coaches don't.... the coaches can only coach and the players can only play as well as their skills allow... Illinois is simply a better team when they hit those 3's....I see the sun coming up here this morning.

Came up here, too

basketballzag
12-09-2012, 06:14 AM
Brandon Paul will be a top 10 NBA pick in 2013. Pangos was outmatched last night but not 100% his fault. Bell Jr is clearly still injured don't know how serious stomach muscle injury is but he is no where near full strength which put more pressure on Pangos both in WsU and Illini game. The added pressure on Pangos appears to be mental right now not a true physical overmatch. Once Bell gets healthy the dynamics of this team change again for the positive.

In many ways I'm okay with this loss bc it takes unneeded pressure off this team which is a good thing.

Brandon Paul reminded me of Chris Paul last night. We won't see another player of his caliber until the tourney. New Orleans scouting staff was very impressed with Brandon last night. The person Paul really frustrated was Elias Harris. Harris needs to work a little more on protecting himself from the defensive pressures.

The Zags will regroup when Bell gets healthy which takes the pressure off of Pangos.

bartruff1
12-09-2012, 06:16 AM
Came up here, too It is the Valley of The Sun !!! Hey Doc...sometimes I think the board has a bi polar disorder.. manic (we will win it all) depressive (we are doomed)... when the reality is that we are normally a top 15 to 30 team and outperform and underperform on occasion....have nice day... the sun will come out tomorrow also...

Baldwinzag
12-09-2012, 06:26 AM
Bell Jr is clearly still injured don't know how serious stomach muscle injury is but he is no where near full strength which put more pressure on Pangos both in WsU and Illini game. The added pressure on Pangos appears to be mental right now not a true physical overmatch. Once Bell gets healthy the dynamics of this team change again for the positive.

The Zags will regroup when Bell gets healthy which takes the pressure off of Pangos.

Good point.

Speaking of, Bell was limping after a couple lay-up/transition attempts, it didn't seem like lower leg stuff, more like hip or groin, so the "stomach muscle" issue is clearly bothering him. He seems to do OK on defense, yet the moment he pushes the dribble-drive and/or jumps for lay-up or rebound, he's visible cringing after those plays.

from my experience, abdominal muscle tears, depending on severity, generally don't heal on their own like other muscle groups in the body, and often times, require a minor surgery to reattach or clean up tissue.

Hopefully, its more strain than anything, and since we have addt'l rest in the next week or so, maybe GBJ can get healthy again -- its affecting the team, esp Pangos.

We need Gary's scoring, slashing, shooting, and defending as much as anyone on this team. In some ways, our most important piece to the puzzle vs NCAA Tourney type teams. See Ohio St last season.

Heal quickly GBJ!

Reborn
12-09-2012, 08:41 AM
The added pressure on Pangos appears to be mental right now not a true physical overmatch. Once Bell gets healthy the dynamics of this team change again for the positive.

The Zags will regroup when Bell gets healthy which takes the pressure off of Pangos.

I really dont understand how Bell's injury (if he has one) affects Pangos. Pangos is the one missing wide open shots. How does his missing wide open shots get blamed on Bell's injury? This is a strange justification for Pangos' inability to shoot this year. He is horrible inside the arc...He did make 3 three's last night yet ended up 3 for 11. all his made shots were 3's.

bballbeachbum
12-09-2012, 08:43 AM
I don't believe Bardo or the fans know anything the Coaches don't.... the coaches can only coach and the players can only play as well as their skills allow... Illinois is simply a better team when they hit those 3's....I see the sun coming up here this morning.

I think you and VirginiaZF are right.

KP's shot is like a set shot, even more susceptible to feeling rushed by quick long guys out there. Just never got comfortable last night, but there were open 3s missed by all the guards, and I saw E turn down an open look at one point too

GLE did not play well, made a rash of poor decisions that hurt. I appreciate what he brings to the table but he struggled last night

once Paul got going, he and the Illini applied the offensive pressure that the Zags wanted to apply the other way, and our guys got a little rattled for a bit looked like to me, and that athleticism became even more effective defensively making backcourt operations in general rushed and stretched

Reborn
12-09-2012, 08:47 AM
I don't believe Bardo or the fans know anything the Coaches don't.... the coaches can only coach and the players can only play as well as their skills allow... Illinois is simply a better team when they hit those 3's....I see the sun coming up here this morning.

As Bardo kept saying as we were beginning to fade, "Why don't the Zags keep feeding the post? Why stop doing what got you the lead when you had it?" Pangos wanted to try to take over the game, and he failed. It was that simple, imo. He missed shots that he could have made. His shooting, outside the Davidson game, has been pretty bad this year.

So the reason I disagree with your premise that Illinois is more talented then the Zags. Hopefully pangos, and Bell to some extent, are having their Sophomore slump and they will return to what we saw last year next year.

Gin N GUice
12-09-2012, 08:57 AM
Illinois is the type of team we need to avoid come march in order to "survive".