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jazzdelmar
12-06-2012, 04:28 AM
To me, it feels like we lost. This was a game Gonzaga neither deserved to lose nor win. The gap between those players who played well and those who played poorly was as wide as I have seen. I thought Few was masterful in picking a winning combo and sticking with it.

Free throw shooting is not the teams biggest deficiency.. It's the lack of a lights out, knock down three point gunner who can get his own shot. Few needs to designate one. Threes from Harris, Kelly even Hart are manna from heaven; our guards are too small to get their shot, and Bell turns it down seven out of ten times.

Still, this was the type of game an earlier Zags team would have lost. If this was a tourney game, you channel Valvano and survive and advance. But as an object lesson from the regular season one thing is clear. We need a Kyle Bankhead.

JAGzag
12-06-2012, 04:49 AM
I know I would like to dominate every game and win by 20, but it's just not going to happen. I think this was a great win - it showed we could play a close fought game in a true road environment. It showed how deep our bench is and how many options Few can throw at a team. These are the wins that pay dividends in March, not the 50 point blowouts to Cal Tech School for the Gifted.

Go Zags!

GoZags
12-06-2012, 04:55 AM
I always say (and said early yesterday) I'll take a hard fought gut wrenching 1 or 2 point win any time down in Pullman.

It's a rivalry game.

I know it's a different sport, but here's an analogy. Heavily favored Washington led WSU 28-6 in the 4th quarter of the Apple Cup (rivalry game) and lost in overtime. It was a REALLY "Black Friday" for the Huskies.

In my mind, last night was a GREAT win for Gonzaga. It certainly beats the alternative.

Birddog
12-06-2012, 04:56 AM
I think if a few of those shot that rattled in and out had fallen, then the Zags would have been on a roll with confidence building. That one "3" from Pangos in particular was hard to take. I think that ball was tickling the nylon before it jumped back out. As bad as all those in and outs were, the most egregious play was all the really bad passes to phantom GU players. I need to look at the boxscore, I'll probably throw up.

bigblahla
12-06-2012, 05:03 AM
To me, it feels like we lost. This was a game Gonzaga neither deserved to lose nor win. The gap between those players who played well and those who played poorly was as wide as I have seen. Free throw shooting is not the teams biggest deficiency.. It's the lack of a lights out, knock down three point gunner who can get his own shot. Few needs to designate one. Threes from Harris, Kelly even Hart are manna from heaven; our guards are too small to get their shot, and Bell turns it down seven out of ten times. Still, this was the type of game an earlier Zags team would have lost. If this was a tourney game, you channel Valvano and survive and advance. But as an object lesson from the regular season one thing is clear. We need a Kyle Bankhead.

Who would have posted anything else? The endless critique of jazzdelmar.

Kyle missed a few in his time Jazz or has it been so long ago your selective memory has erased those shots.

2002-03

Maui:
Loss to Indiana Kyle 0-4 from 3.
Loss to U of K Kyle 1-5 from 3.

Peach classic - Loss to U of G Kyle 3-5 from 3.

Pete Newell Classic - Loss to Stanford Kyle 2-6 from 3.

The first 4 losses I looked at Kyle was 6-20 from 3 that's 30% from 3 pt land.

GBJ and Pangos both can hit the 3 but sometimes they just don't fall.

You really need to do something about that darn rain cloud you seem to live under. You're a great fan Jazz but always the pessimist.

Just my opinion

Go!! Zags!!!

ZagMan in Philly
12-06-2012, 05:08 AM
Jazz,
Pangos is our designated 3 pt specialist without a doubt, the shots just did not fall for him last night. I am more than ok for him to shoot whenever he is open. We took their best shots, and still won under hostile environments. This will go a long way. Enjoy the win my friend.

jazzdelmar
12-06-2012, 05:12 AM
just some critical and to my mind constructive thinking, but i am sorry to offend. it was a pulsating, Meechian win that will enlarge as the week goes on. I still think we need a three pt option from the wing.

DCZag
12-06-2012, 05:20 AM
Loss - aaahhhhh, no....winning feels good, even if it was ugly. Losing sucks, period. And we didn't....

GoZags
12-06-2012, 05:24 AM
just some critical and to my mind constructive thinking, but i am sorry to offend. it was a pulsating, Meechian win that will enlarge as the week goes on. I still think we need a three pt option from the wing.

Or thoughts from someone who truly does not understand or comprehend what GU v WSU is all about.

jazzdelmar
12-06-2012, 05:25 AM
"Who would have posted anything else? The endless critique of jazzdelmar.
Kyle missed a few in his time Jazz or has it been so long ago your selective memory has erased those shots."


Blah, why do u feel the need to knock a great Zag in order to knock me? Oh, youre just making a point. I get it. :)

bartruff1
12-06-2012, 05:48 AM
Jazz,
Pangos is our designated 3 pt specialist without a doubt, the shots just did not fall for him last night. I am more than ok for him to shoot whenever he is open. We took their best shots, and still won under hostile environments. This will go a long way. Enjoy the win my friend.

Huge win... (it would have been a gut wrenching loss) I never saw Kevin take a bad shot....I am positive Few wants him to take the shot when it is there ... it is simply a fact that he won the game with a very skilled and confident drive at the end....

webspinnre
12-06-2012, 05:56 AM
I still think we need a three pt option from the wing.

I think KD is going to be that guy, but as a RS freshman he's not quit there yet.

BTB
12-06-2012, 05:58 AM
Kevin looked very confident in his shot tonight, I loved it. They just weren't falling for him. Everyone is saying he can't shoot on the road, I'm not buying it. Few believes he can shoot on the road, otherwise he wouldn't let him. His teammates believe he can shoot on the road, otherwise they wouldn't give him the ball (notice they gave it to him at the end of the game). Most importantly, HE believes he can shoot on the road, otherwise he wouldn't be jacking them up with no hesitation.

If all of them believe he can shoot on the road, I believe he can shoot on the road.

Sidenote: Anyone else LOVE how much confidence Hart showed on that 3 ball? No hesitation out of him. Also, Olynyk seems to have a thing for hitting big shots, anyone else remember that trey to help beat Baylor?

bigblahla
12-06-2012, 05:59 AM
"Who would have posted anything else? The endless critique of jazzdelmar.
Kyle missed a few in his time Jazz or has it been so long ago your selective memory has erased those shots."


Blah, why do u feel the need to knock a great Zag in order to knock me? Oh, youre just making a point. I get it. :)

Per my PM Jazz we both agree Kyle was a great Zag and one heck of a player walk-on or not. To me it's just the game sometimes the basket is as big as an Ocean and other times you can't throw a marble through it.

I think the hardest thing to remember as a fan is these young men aren't perfect and never will be. We just hope when they hit the floor for a game that their best on that day is good enough and if it isn't know that they feel much worse in defeat than any of us ever will as fans.

The endless critique comment was probably over the top and for that I do apologize but we got to work on that rain cloud. :)

Go!! Zags!!!

cjm720
12-06-2012, 06:06 AM
Great, gutsy win. Coach and the team didnt back down.

jazzdelmar
12-06-2012, 06:19 AM
The endless critique comment was probably over the top and for that I do apologize but we got to work on that rain cloud.


no prb, blah...sunny and dry here, as ever :)

CaliforniaZaggin'
12-06-2012, 06:27 AM
Rivalry games have to be looked at in a bubble. The underdog frequently plays up a notch, even more so at home. Personally, I take nothing negative out of last night's game. Elias and Kelly were outstanding. GBJ helped keep the Zags in the game during the first half. Mike Hart was the exact spark we needed off the bench. While Kevin struggled, he redeemed himself late and I maintain confidence in his game.

Let's let the wins feel like wins. Rest assured, we'll have the opportunity to lament over losses (unfortunately).

TacomaZAG
12-06-2012, 06:33 AM
Good teams find a way to win, even on the road when not playing particularly well. As said earlier in this thread, this would have been a loss in many previous years.

Also, I agree with the "rivalry games" comments. This was the biggest game of the year in Pullman, except for maybe the Fusky visit. Get out of the Palouse with a W, even an ugly, sloppy W.

There are no bad wins, especially on the road in a "rivalry game".

Go ZAGS

Pargo the Destroyer
12-06-2012, 06:34 AM
The endless critique comment was probably over the top and for that I do apologize but we got to work on that rain cloud.


no prb, blah...sunny and dry here, as ever :)

I had the same feelings as you as well Jazz, kept saying how in the hell are they still in the game, time and time again. Wazzu played with grit and guts. Hats off to them. Hats off to Few for finding the right mix of guys. It was a brawl in there.

GrizZAG
12-06-2012, 06:39 AM
Anybody here Golf much? Those of us that are avid golfers know that some days you just are off but you also know you will have it another day. KP is no different and as mentioned his final chip shot was a winner.
They could have folded like teams in the past but they gutted this one out.
We knew this kind of game was coming and it may be a godsend when we play Illi and K State. Our men know they will have to bring it.
I say wow, impressive win considering KP off night and a hostile environment. Go men!

Birddog
12-06-2012, 06:47 AM
Anybody here Golf much? Those of us that are avid golfers know that some days you just are off but you also know you will have it another day.
Well if you want to use the golf analogy, it was more like a 5 man scramble and Pangos finally contributed with a putt from the froghairs on 18. It sorta reminds me of my golf game, such as it is. In a scramble, I'm usually good for one shot that I pull out of my arse.

zaguarxj
12-06-2012, 06:54 AM
Not even close. In fact, I'd say it's the sweetest-tasting victory of the year. Usually, when another team outworks the Zags and gets themselves and the crowd all worked up by hitting a bunch of 3's, the Zags lose. This team never folded and found a way to win. The look of disbelief on Motum's face at the end of the game was priceless.

rennis
12-06-2012, 06:54 AM
I side with Jazz a little bit on this one. From my perspective it was a terrible game for GU's guards, but I'm darn thankful they came out with a W.

They need to do something about Kevin's shooting woes on the road. I love the kid, but damnit, he's too good of a shooter to run ice cold like that in road situations. It's a mental hurdle.

(not to mention missing that freakin' 1-1 FT... RAGE!!!!!!)

rijman
12-06-2012, 07:03 AM
A win is a win, especially a road rivalry game. I see the glass is half full here, Kelly had a great 2nd half, Harris had another solid game, Hart played a great game and Pangos had an off night but it wasn't as though he was throwing up bricks, he had a few balls go in and out. Using a golf analogy, Pangos was having one of those days where you putt well but you have a bunch of lip outs. This was a good road test for the Zags and they pulled out the W.

Psychozag
12-06-2012, 07:18 AM
It certaintly doesn't feel like a loss; that's probably just you choosing to wear your crap-colored glasses. But I do agree that scoring from the backcourt is a must. We saw that in action when Kevin went off in the second half against Davidson, and we won with some breathing room. We also saw it last year when Kevin couldn't hit from outside consistently against Ohio State and we lost a close one. He needs to find the consistency away that he shows at home. Without it, we will see a loss like USF last year. But then again, if he goes 2-12 and is always 100% on the game winners, then I am okay with that.

SwainZag
12-06-2012, 07:29 AM
I think a game like this is what keeps myself and I'm sure other fans grounded. It's nice being 8-0 and looking ahead to the likes of Illinois and Oklahoma St. later this year, but it's a game like this where several players struggle and the team reaches down and finds a way to win on the road that makes me enjoy the other wins that much more.

Hoopaholic
12-06-2012, 07:32 AM
Thank goodness basketball is a TEAM sport, for we are blessed to have multiple ferraris in the garage ( Team hopped into a Chevy pickup for a while tonight) to drive the team because sometimes cars get flat tires or dead batteries...but we are driving to the dance as a team...no win can ever feel like a loss to me

Robzagnut
12-06-2012, 07:40 AM
The Good – the coming out party for KO. He just dominated the 2nd half. He is so much stronger, and he still has the vision to make that critical pass.

Hart saved the day on so many occasions. Miles Austin kept saying, “Glue guy.” Every time Hart made a play and they were critical.


The Bad – when Pangos is off he is really off. He was so close to being THE goat. 1-11 from the field and missing the front end of the 1-and-1. He sucked last night. He needs to show leadership and talk to Bell and let Bell know that he needs to step up and take more shots, when he’s cold.

Stockton is still a turn over machine. He’s getting irritating to watch.

Martin Centre Mad Man
12-06-2012, 07:41 AM
Good teams find a way to win, even on the road when not playing particularly well. As said earlier in this thread, this would have been a loss in many previous years.

Also, I agree with the "rivalry games" comments. This was the biggest game of the year in Pullman, except for maybe the Fusky visit. Get out of the Palouse with a W, even an ugly, sloppy W.

There are no bad wins, especially on the road in a "rivalry game".

Go ZAGS

Both teams had several opportunities to get down on themselves following big plays by the opposition but neither team did. Both teams kept fighting on every possession until the buzzer sounded. Our kids found a way to make one or two more plays down the stretch and it was just enough to win. This was the first game where our kids absolutely had to make plays in the closing seconds and I'm thrilled that they made them. This was a good learning experience in a hostile environment.

CDC84
12-06-2012, 07:42 AM
The Zags shot 51% from the floor and 44% from the 3 point line. Aside from some of the 16 turnovers, the offense was fine. Even with the poor foul shooting.

The problem was allowing WSU - a pretty limited offensive team - to shoot 45% from the floor and connect on double digit threes at a 37% clip. The Zags also didn't contain the ball well near the late stages of the 2nd half.

Also, Few shouldn't need to bring in Mike Hart to rescue a team that is not getting to loose balls and crashing the glass.

Birddog
12-06-2012, 07:48 AM
Pangos' floater last night was horrible. His jump shot didn't look so bad most were in and out. I wanted him to keep shooting when he was open.
The Zags didn't just have too many TO's, they resulted in real momentum killers at critical junctures of the game. Several times it looked for all the world like the Zags had their foot on the accelerator and knew what to do then they just threw it away.

vandalzag
12-06-2012, 07:57 AM
The lack of another 3 point shooter is going to come up this season, especially in a game were Pangos is not hitting. I had hoped that the Barham would step into that role, especially as weak side threat to make teams think twice about double teaming the post.

Few pulled all the right moves in figuring out which kids showed up to play. As CDC said Hart should not have had to play the savior, but like the closer in baseball he fits a role on this team and last night showed his impact in that role.

Now the feels like a loss comment is foolish and really takes away from valid points being made, but it does give jazz attention so I guess it serves a purpose.

NotoriousZ
12-06-2012, 07:59 AM
It started out sloppy and fustrating, but it turned into another great rivarly game for both schools, and an emotional win for the Zags.

Pangos is our go-to guy when we need a bucket, nothing has changed that. This is a win that will lead to other wins later on.

titopoet
12-06-2012, 08:06 AM
Looks like a win, feels like a win, in the win column. 9-0. Winning a tight game when the Zags not firing on all cylinders in a hostile environment.

Feels like a good win. One to be used going forward.

Zagsker
12-06-2012, 08:08 AM
If only all losses felt this good

JPtheBeasta
12-06-2012, 08:10 AM
Motum and Lacey hit a lot of questionable shots, and Pangos rattled out several that were almost halfwaty down. There's a 15-20 point swing in there. Like was said before, we are always lucky to get out of Pullman with a W, so I'll take it.

gamagin
12-06-2012, 08:47 AM
To me, it feels like we lost. This was a game Gonzaga neither deserved to lose nor win. The gap between those players who played well and those who played poorly was as wide as I have seen. I thought Few was masterful in picking a winning combo and sticking with it.

Free throw shooting is not the teams biggest deficiency.. It's the lack of a lights out, knock down three point gunner who can get his own shot. Few needs to designate one. Threes from Harris, Kelly even Hart are manna from heaven; our guards are too small to get their shot, and Bell turns it down seven out of ten times.

Still, this was the type of game an earlier Zags team would have lost. If this was a tourney game, you channel Valvano and survive and advance. But as an object lesson from the regular season one thing is clear. We need a Kyle Bankhead.

you are sitting in the relative warmth of San Diego, looking down your (I imagine) sunburned nose at what is a genuine rivalry and refusing to consider that common sense is not common when it comes to these two teams.

The Apple Cup football game between WSU & U of W is similar. You can just throw out what would be the logical outcome because everyone shows up with their hair on fire. Particularly the underdog.

The game seems to have some sort of redemptive quality to it, also. A win during an average to poor season can kindle the fire for the rest of the season. A loss can put a fire out. Or save or cost a coach his job. This has happened. A lot. Much of this could just be fuel for the rabid fans of both sides, but the game you saw gives you some idea that it is real.

How Motum kept shooting like he did, and how WSU made four straight trays from up top with the pressure of the WSU world, and this game, on their shoulders, was simply an out of body experience for both sides to behold.

It was raw willpower at work. And damned good luck. They went kamikaze on us because it was there only chance. We had this game in the bag. The announcers were discussing the MVP (Hart). It almost worked. There's a history of kamikaze games and after last night, I believe the tradition and the rivalry is alive and well. Expect more. Forget the tale of the tape. Nobody cares that they are supposed to win or lose. It's about who wants to win more in the moment. Play by play.

But to get anything out of it beyond discovering year to year who is the hungriest, and wants to win "this one" the worst, well we all have to wait and see how we wind up for the whole season. And that depends on a lot of things happening that have little, if anything, to do with this particular game. Other than it's motivational & entertainment value.

For e.g., much as I like Bankhead, I think KP will wind up as the better player in the GU annals. He's still young and he's already played a ton. And, as he showed us this go round, even on a bad night, he is still dangerous and only needs a split second to change the outcome of a game.

rennis
12-06-2012, 08:52 AM
^ Well said Gamagin. It's hard not to feel a little perturbed by their performance in certain ways, but a rivarly win should be apreciated no matter how it goes down.


And, to paraphrase and manipulate a comment made by Jay Bilas years ago comparing two POY candidates (one from GU, one from Duke)

"Kevin Pangos can score in ways that Kyle Bankhead can only dream about"

like the shot he took with 4 tics left last night.

gonstu
12-06-2012, 09:23 AM
Thank goodness basketball is a TEAM sport, for we are blessed to have multiple ferraris in the garage ( Team hopped into a Chevy pickup for a while tonight) to drive the team because sometimes cars get flat tires or dead batteries...but we are driving to the dance as a team...no win can ever feel like a loss to me

Agree with this - in our family our favorite zag descriptor (especially after a win or during a blow out) is " TOO MANY WEAPONS " - We have used that for years, though this year is seems more accurate than ever. Tonight a perfect example: KP is cold but Olynyk puts in 20+....I love this team!

Oregonzagnut
12-06-2012, 09:39 AM
I only agree with his sentiment and "devils advocate" attitude. It doesn't feel like a loss to me. But I know it was for 30 minutes because they were beating us with a dual smack in the mouth of intensity and consistency. Our losses again were at the free throw line and it was a loss of all around solid tight offense and defense. Both sputtered and it was a purely even game statistically for both teams.

We have a great "Bankhead" in Hart, period. We have true heart all down the bench, and we won. Whatever true and real losses we had until the final 8 seconds were wiped away. To say we need a "Bankead" is true for any team. Who doesn't need a Bankhead? So I am not going to take it as a cut on Hart. Everyone needs a Bankhead.

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, so since we didn't die, EVERY "loss" we had in that game statistically, technically or emotionally made us stronger, and that makes it 100% a win. Both in the W/L column and our ability to win in the closest of games that can possibly be.

No one can say "It is too early to worry about FT shooting yet." If I hear that, someone is blind and ignorant. FT's would have iced that game. We will need that and FT's are all fundamental AND mental. So "FEWSTON, we have a problem."

Reborn
12-06-2012, 10:28 AM
Great thread as usual, Jazz. I love how you challenge us to think. I always look forward to your threads. I like what one poster said, "if losses could only always feel this good." Made me lmao!

if anyone needed a wake up call, it is me. I really got carried away when I thought GU would win by twenty. What I didn't know was that Lacy was going to play, and to play that well after a two week recovery period from a knee injury and that he only practiced one day before the game. I'm surprised that more hasn't been said about how awesome he played. The "old timers" kept reminding us that it would be the kind of game it was. Hats off to the old timers. I will listen to you more, and especially next year when GU plays WSU. Even last year when Pangos played as brilliantly as he did the Cougars almost came back at the end of the game and almost beat us in K2.

In the end a two point victory is just as good as a twenty point victory. And for me I enjoy them a lot more. I thought it was pretty cool how Pangos won the game for us after having such a horrible night. Talk about the Zag Spirit of never giving up.

Now about Mike Hart. I was so happy to see him get to play so much last night. We haven't seen him as much the last few games because he was not needed. But as we have all said, he was needed last night, and came through big time. My oldest son, whose now 39, keeps saying how Hart is what it means to be a Zag. I have to agree with him. I agree with you Jazz that I prefer a team that can shoot from the outside from both wings. But what makes this team work is that we do have guys like Harris, Olynyk and Hart who can make threes from the outside to make up for that deficit at one of our wings.

Personally, I would like to see Mike Hart start and become a steady influence on this team. I think the Zags need him in there, and I believe that they are better when he is on the floor. Bankhead didn't start until he was a senior. And he was definitely a weapon. I think Hart can also be a weapon. And even the announcers were saying he was the player of the game. He is such a great example of how someone can be a great player and not be a scorer. My younger son was like that. And he always contributed to the teams that he played on.

golfmania
12-06-2012, 11:12 AM
Anybody here Golf much? Those of us that are avid golfers know that some days you just are off but you also know you will have it another day. KP is no different and as mentioned his final chip shot was a winner.
They could have folded like teams in the past but they gutted this one out.
We knew this kind of game was coming and it may be a godsend when we play Illi and K State. Our men know they will have to bring it.
I say wow, impressive win considering KP off night and a hostile environment. Go men!
grizzag, you are spot on! some days you hit the ball great and score like crap, other days you couldn't hit your way out of a paper sack and score great, or like this game, you hit it so-so and pull out a match play win because you are wirey, and refuse to lose to your best friend(rival!). We will take the win and move on to Illinois, and try to hit it like Rory Mcilroy! Go Zags!

zagco
12-06-2012, 12:05 PM
When you are ranked, especially high, people are giving you their best shots. When you are on the road at an in-state rivalry game, you might be getting the best shot your opponent is going to give anyone all year. Wazzu looked frenetic at times. We looked good, but far less frenetic.

The one thing that pleases Zagco this year is that he has honestly not noticed one of our posts having balls knocked away from his hands. That was DRIVING HIM CRAZY these past four years with Sacre. OMG!!!!!

Virginia Zags Fan
12-06-2012, 02:50 PM
Great thread Jazz. I saw this today and have given it some thought. In short, we won. We were the better team, we expected to win, and so did everyone else.

With that said, WSU far exceeded the expectations of many of their fans and certainly our fans. They won a moral victory. Even though they lost. It is kind of like 4 years ago when Goodson, Gray, Bouldin, Harris, and Sacre took on MSU in Lansing and almost pulled off the huge upset. We lost, but in a way we won. The Cougs lost on the scoreboard, but in a way, they won that game in Pullman. Conversely, we won, but we lost.

What I can say is that this game was a catharsis for so many GU fans. Get out hustled. Increase the intensity. Come back to take the lead. Let the Cougs back in it and lose the lead. Regain the lead and finally win it on Kevin's sweet flip shot off the glass. So much emotion for a game many predicted the Zags would win by 20! When you are used to winning by 20, that game deflated much of our Zag Final Four giddiness and brought us back to earth with a crash. Not because our guys lost..... they won. Our expectations lost. It was the realization that we could have lost. Almost lost to a team not as good as the one that we will face on Saturday. The realization that our guys will face those exact types of opposing efforts at SMC, USF, SCU, BYU, USD, etc. Six of nine WCC teams will not make it to the Big Dance this year. But, if one of those six teams beat Gonzaga, their season was a success. And their fans will rush the court......

The good news is that I think our team truly is the most talented team in the WCC and probably in the top 3 in the West. I also really liked how our guys really turned up the intensity and took it to the Cougs in the 2nd half. I am reminded of a quote by Dick Vermeil who led the 2000 RAMS to victory in Super Bowl 34. He was asked if he ever doubted the Rams could get to the Super Bowl, let alone win it. He said he was never in doubt. He said he knew the St. Louis Rams were the most talented team in the NFL and the only team that could beat the St. Louis Rams was the St. Louis Rams.

I believe the Zags are more talented than any team on our schedule this year. I believe the only team that can beat the 2012-13 Zags are the 2013 Zags. If the Zags come out with the same intensity that they displayed in the 2nd half against the Cougs, clean up the turnovers, and cut down on the defensive lapses, Illinois will wonder what kind of buzz saw that they ran into in Spokane.

Now, I did not predict a blow out as I know how rivalry games can go. However, for those who predicted a 20 point win, I believe your score predictions were actually very, very close to being right on. Less than an inch off. At one point we were up by 11 with the ball. Kevin took an open shot for 3. A good shot that I am glad he took and would want him to take 10 out of 10 times. It went in and out. The Cougs came back, drained a three, turned Stockton over and got the Oop. It returned the Coug's belief and will. Had Kevin's shot gone down, we would have won by 20+ and we would all be giddy about the Final Four.

Peace,
VZF

ID ZAGFAN
12-06-2012, 06:14 PM
To me, it feels like we lost. This was a game Gonzaga neither deserved to lose nor win. The gap between those players who played well and those who played poorly was as wide as I have seen. I thought Few was masterful in picking a winning combo and sticking with it.

Free throw shooting is not the teams biggest deficiency.. It's the lack of a lights out, knock down three point gunner who can get his own shot. Few needs to designate one. Threes from Harris, Kelly even Hart are manna from heaven; our guards are too small to get their shot, and Bell turns it down seven out of ten times.

Still, this was the type of game an earlier Zags team would have lost. If this was a tourney game, you channel Valvano and survive and advance. But as an object lesson from the regular season one thing is clear. We need a Kyle Bankhead.



So if you were a WSU fan, would you be posting "It feels like we won"?

Just askin'

ZaGranny

awberke
12-06-2012, 06:25 PM
Good teams don't always blow out the opponent, good teams win games. I thought last night was everything we could hope for in the kind of environment that they were in.

WSU raining down every three they hucked up, hostile away environment, poor nights for several of our players, and we won. That's what good teams do.

Sometimes i wonder if you even believe the things you say or if you just like to stir the p0t. Either way i'm fine with it.

ZagsGoZags
12-06-2012, 06:50 PM
Keep up the good work Jazz
give your opinion like you see it, because you give your reasons
and I don't care if it is different

ignore those who would stigmatize you
and feel the need to put you down ...


this game was close and could have gone either way,
I thought K0's defense on Motum (sp?) was letting them back in
but his offensive production in the last few minutes, under extreme pressure
was fabulous

go Zags

WallaWallaZag
12-06-2012, 06:55 PM
It's the lack of a lights out, knock down three point gunner who can get his own shot. Few needs to designate one. Threes from Harris, Kelly even Hart are manna from heaven; our guards are too small to get their shot, and Bell turns it down seven out of ten times.

But as an object lesson from the regular season one thing is clear. We need a Kyle Bankhead.

jazz - also a big fan of bankhead but i think you are living in the past and gonzaga / coach few has evolved... i think there is now a realization that athleticism/defense/rebounding may be more important at the 3 spot if you have final four aspirations. obviously, it would be ideal to package that with an offensive threat, but...can't always have it all. also think that the lack of an offensive weapon at the 3 spot wouldn't be an issue if bell would assert himself more.

ZagLawGrad
12-06-2012, 07:06 PM
jazz - also a big fan of bankhead but i think you are living in the past and gonzaga / coach few has evolved... i think there is now a realization that athleticism/defense/rebounding may be more important at the 3 spot if you have final four aspirations. obviously, it would be ideal to package that with an offensive threat, but...can't always have it all. also think that the lack of an offensive weapon at the 3 spot wouldn't be an issue if bell would assert himself more.

Good points Walla2

Rbo
12-06-2012, 07:44 PM
Huge win... (it would have been a gut wrenching loss) I never saw Kevin take a bad shot....I am positive Few wants him to take the shot when it is there ... it is simply a fact that he won the game with a very skilled and confident drive at the end....

Right on. Pangos had a terrible shooting game, but his looks were good. Hart and KO stepped up big time. Motem was a beast. Lacey was awesome. It was all of what college basketball is supposed to be about. And it was a "W." I loved it ... but my wife didn't. She was afraid I would wake up or scare the neighbors.

jim77
12-06-2012, 08:11 PM
Feels like a loss? Feels like a "W" to me. We beat an athletic determined team on their court.....better luck next year Cougs...on to the Illini.

MickMick
12-06-2012, 08:19 PM
It feels like the first time.

It feels like the very first time.

Oregonzagnut
12-06-2012, 08:43 PM
So if you were a WSU fan, would you be posting "It feels like we won"?

Just askin'

ZaGranny

No but some are calling it a "Moral victory". I think we know what it means when people say it though.

So then was our win really a "Moral Loss"? Most fans expectations were crushed. Most WSU fans expectations were raised. Both are good for each team. Except our big fat "W" is only good for us. and that is the fact.

Gonzaga got the victory and the moral victory, IMO.

ZagaZags
12-06-2012, 10:29 PM
To me, it feels like we lost. This was a game Gonzaga neither deserved to lose nor win. The gap between those players who played well and those who played poorly was as wide as I have seen. I thought Few was masterful in picking a winning combo and sticking with it.

Free throw shooting is not the teams biggest deficiency.. It's the lack of a lights out, knock down three point gunner who can get his own shot. Few needs to designate one. Threes from Harris, Kelly even Hart are manna from heaven; our guards are too small to get their shot, and Bell turns it down seven out of ten times.

Still, this was the type of game an earlier Zags team would have lost. If this was a tourney game, you channel Valvano and survive and advance. But as an object lesson from the regular season one thing is clear. We need a Kyle Bankhead.

Great teams find a way to win close games. Every top 10 team will have off nights. The elite teams find a way to win.
This team is so deep they may have a different player every night with the hot hand.

bigblahla
12-07-2012, 04:38 AM
When I first read this thread my initial reaction wasn't too kind and for that I have publicly apologized to Jazz on this forum.

The comment we didn't deserve to win after watching our coach masterfully willing the 6 who played in the 2nd half to give everything they have and they gut checked and pulled out a win is just wrong. It was a hard fought victory and it was deserved.

I cheer for our team the one that's on the floor not some team I want them to be but who they are.

My comments on Kyle were about perspective as everyone, you , me, the young men in GU unis we all have off days or nights. In basketball there are two teams competing and our Zags aren't the only team wanting to win.

Kyle went something like 16-44 from 3 in the losses of the 2002-03 squad, doesn't mean I didn't like him. How could I not? He's a Zag.

We have our Bankhead, our Stepp, our Calvary, they look different but they are all our guys and when they have an off night they are still our guys.

Not one thread on this board celebrated the fact we won. There is something wrong with the idea that we didn't beat the Cougs by enough so the fans on this board are let down and disappointed, poor us.

Call me a homer, call me optimistic but most of all call me a Zag fan and win or lose I support the young men on this team for who they are, not who I want them to be between my left ear and my right ear.

Just my opinion.

Go!! Zags!!!

Zag4Hire
12-07-2012, 04:53 AM
To me, it feels like we lost. This was a game Gonzaga neither deserved to lose nor win. The gap between those players who played well and those who played poorly was as wide as I have seen. I thought Few was masterful in picking a winning combo and sticking with it.

Free throw shooting is not the teams biggest deficiency.. It's the lack of a lights out, knock down three point gunner who can get his own shot. Few needs to designate one. Threes from Harris, Kelly even Hart are manna from heaven; our guards are too small to get their shot, and Bell turns it down seven out of ten times.

Still, this was the type of game an earlier Zags team would have lost. If this was a tourney game, you channel Valvano and survive and advance. But as an object lesson from the regular season one thing is clear. We need a Kyle Bankhead.

Big time rival, in their house, for the first true road test of the season, and you win? Hardly. Trust me there is no thin line between a win and a loss. The hard pill to swallow on those Pyrrhic victories is when any player gets hurt where they will miss extended time.

primal23
12-07-2012, 09:23 AM
Having rewatched all but the last 30 minutes of the game last night, a lot of Pangos' shots were going in then spun out. There was a bunch of GU shots that did this, and a bunch of WSU shots that went in that normally wouldn't. Some games just happen this way. To win, when this happens is impressive. And as stated earlier, TO's and rebounding were a HUGE problem on Wed. Illinois will eat us alive if we don't clean that up, and hit FT's.

Zag79
12-07-2012, 07:10 PM
Having rewatched all but the last 30 minutes of the game last night, a lot of Pangos' shots were going in then spun out. There was a bunch of GU shots that did this, and a bunch of WSU shots that went in that normally wouldn't. Some games just happen this way. To win, when this happens is impressive. And as stated earlier, TO's and rebounding were a HUGE problem on Wed. Illinois will eat us alive if we don't clean that up, and hit FT's.

Some games it does happen that way. As a three point shooter myself, I totally get the feeling of the "down and outs". It's the most frustrating thing, especially when the shot feels pure like when your draino. My only concern is that Pangos is starting to have a Blake Stepp like quality to him (not "bad"by any means). A guy who is the best player on the court more times than not, but all too often goes ice cold in games.

Everyone has tough nights, but to be either completely hot or ice cold is definintly starting to be his MO. That's when I would like to see GBJ take more shots, especially because he is usually more consistent. Nice problem to have, I know. As far as the game feeling like a loss, it was anything but that to this guy.

Baldwinzag
12-07-2012, 07:16 PM
gawd, gary should shoot more. way more.

needs to happen, will it happen. he can get open.