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View Full Version : How do we integrate Olynyk?



Baldwinzag
11-20-2012, 02:16 PM
Sincere question, curious on your answers.

How will the minutes and/or positions change with KO's return?

What happens to Sammy D and does he maintain his starting role or not?

Does Kelly Olynyk man the Center position and Sam back-up Elias at PF(his natural position)?

Isn't Karnowski our leading scorer at the moment playing reserve Center and will he start at the 5?

Shouldn't Sam play more PF and Karnowski & Kelly more C? Wait, Does Elias play more at SF to utilize the talent of our bigs in the front court?

If so or if not, why shift or change what isn't broken?

Bottomline, How do we manage 5 talented posts who all arguably deserve to start or play significant mins at their respective positions?

A lot to consider...Please advise.

:cool:

zagfan1970
11-20-2012, 02:29 PM
good questions! A great problem to have, though.

I would assume matchups will play a big factor and Few has used so many different combinations already. He has played PK, SD, and EH at the same time this season. I would love to see KO, PK, and EH together owning the paint. We have the size, athleticism, and unselfishness to do just about anything and the depth to play aggressive without fear of foul trouble.

I am eager to see what happens in Florida. Although, I wouldn't be surprised to see plentiful changes throughout the year. I also believe KO will atleast come off the pine the first couple of games and earn the starting nod by the time we host Illinois.

MickMick
11-20-2012, 02:37 PM
Whatever the answer is, the #3 position is extremely productive as is. Last outing, Hart picked up 9 rebounds in 15 minutes and Edi is very productive on both ends of the court. In other words, don't attempt to slip Harris in there, out of position. Both are better wings than Harris who is much more of an inside, put back, rebounding, enforcer.

Dower/Harris at #4, PK, KO at #5, All other positions remain as is.

That is how I would do it.

Mantua
11-20-2012, 02:40 PM
Whatever the answer is, the #3 position is extremely productive as is. Last outing, Hart picked up 9 rebounds in 15 minutes and Edi is very productive on both ends of the court. In other words, don't attempt to slip Harris in there, out of position. Both are better wings than Harris who is much more of an inside, put back, rebounding, enforcer.

Dower/Harris at #4, PK, KO at #5, All other positions remain as is.

That is how I would do it.

+1

dnj116
11-20-2012, 02:45 PM
Good questions, indeed. However, you're a bit off here:


Bottomline, How do we manage 5 talented posts who all arguably deserve to start or play significant mins at their respective positions?


Four bigs we're working with, here. That sic aside, I think now is the time we may see Few start to integrate Elias into the 3 spot. However, the minutes that Elias plays at the three will likely be limited, so with the emergence of Olynyk, there is going to be some shake-ups in the minutes.

What I foresee happening is short shifts rotating in-and-out, similar to hockey line changes. Keep those players fresh and wear down oposing bigs both physically and by racking up fouls. Certainly, all of our four bigs could log meaningful minutes at other schools, so we have to utilize our talent effectively. In my opinion, at this point, all of our four bigs are fairly equal talent-wise -- meaning, no one should be logging 30+ minutes per game.

With such talent and depth at the 4 and 5, it will be hard to get all these players the time they each deserve. WOW, what a problem to have! In a few years, when we don't have this kind of depth or talent in the front court, we will certainly be lamenting at how great this group was! I'm content to just sit back, relax, and enjoy the ride!

zag944
11-20-2012, 02:49 PM
From what I've heard about his redshirt year, what I saw from him his first two seasons, and what Ive seen from the three bigs we have had these first three games.....

I wouldnt be shocked if he is the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th best big man on the team.

Itll be very interesting indeed to see how Coach Few manages his lineup.

dnj116
11-20-2012, 02:54 PM
Here's another way to look at it:

We have 40 min./game at the 4, and 40 min./game at the 5. Meaning, 80 min. total between the four players.

Currently, here are the averages of minutes:
Big K: 18.7 min.
Harris: 23.3 min.
Dower: 25.3 min.

That means Hart or Edi have played some minutes at the 4 spot. With Olynyk into the mix, I think we can remain fairly consistent by giving each big roughly 20 minutes per game. There may not be that much of shake up in minutes played using the games already played as a bench-mark. . .

rennis
11-20-2012, 02:58 PM
The only way we see EH play much at the 3 spot is if the opposing team plays a similar style of kid in the same position. EH doesn't have the speed or lateral agility on D to match up with a 3 guard in a lot of situations.

I also don't see how PK doesn't start to pick up a lot of minutes as the season wears on. The only things slowing down PK is PK...

By the middle of the season I think KO & SD will be fighting for minutes behind PK, no matter who starts the game at the 5 spot, and EH will continue to play 30+ MPG at the 4.

That said, even if Harris plays 30 mpg at the 4, that still leaves 50 minutes of 4/5 spot time between KO/PK/SD. I wouldn't be surprised if they share that pretty equally.

edit: myself and dnj^ think alike.

roxdoc
11-20-2012, 03:07 PM
I agree totally with MickMick. We have 4 bigs, 2 at each position, various permutations at mixing and matching, although probably the 7 footers at C. No matter how good Kelly has become I see him being slowly worked into the mix at Orlando.

Refuse to get caught up in the hand wrining about PT. Yes any of these guys could start and play 40 minutes at some D-1 school somewhere. So what? They are not somewhere else, they are here. Undoubtedly they are quite happy (regardless of their minutes) to be part of a team like we have this year. With our high octane offense they will all need to be spelled from time to time, not to mention potential foul problems.

Final rant: For gosh sakes leave the 3 position alone! We have 2, maybe 3 players that can play the 3 better than Harris. Bad choice just to try to make a starting place for Kelly.

CDC84
11-20-2012, 03:20 PM
Olynyk is likely to be eased in slowly. No matter how much improvement he's made, he's been away from D-1 ball for what seems like forever, and he'll be facing teams that aren't exactly Southern Utah. Plus, the team has been clicking well without him.

It's just too hard to tell right now how the rotation will work out. The only thing I am fairly certain of is that we will less of Stockton and Pangos playing together, and that at some point Harris and Dower won't be in the starting lineup together. It doesn't make sense to do the latter with both 7 footers now available.

sittingon50
11-20-2012, 03:33 PM
Give him a path to citizenship?

gamagin
11-20-2012, 04:03 PM
there is a Zag on this team who has more big time p.t. in big time games than KO. I doubt he's forgotten those experiences.

And now that he is older and wiser, and reportedly stronger and faster, I expect he is ready for a leadership role.

The opportunity is there and his for the taking. I hope he takes it. We'll see soon enough.

Angelo Roncalli
11-20-2012, 04:08 PM
Busing.

75Zag
11-20-2012, 04:16 PM
KO has been practicing with this team for the past 16 + months, right?

Not sure that integrating him is going to be a big deal. He has been here all along!

Go Bulldogs!

CDC84
11-20-2012, 04:18 PM
With Kelly's outside shooting touch, I wonder if the 4 is a better spot for him than the 5? I know that he's a legit 7 footer, but I see him as more of a Dirk than a Howard.

Power forward might be a better spot for him, but there is no playing time there. That's the number one reason why he redshirted. He was never going to supplant Harris in the starting lineup, and although Kelly has perimeter skills, he has nowhere near the shooting touch that Dower does as a stretch 4 man.

Zag365
11-20-2012, 04:25 PM
as the most clever answers, I think this expresses my view the best:


Whatever the answer is, the #3 position is extremely productive as is. Last outing, Hart picked up 9 rebounds in 15 minutes and Edi is very productive on both ends of the court. In other words, don't attempt to slip Harris in there, out of position. Both are better wings than Harris who is much more of an inside, put back, rebounding, enforcer.

Dower/Harris at #4, PK, KO at #5, All other positions remain as is.

That is how I would do it.

I think who starts and who plays how many minutes at the #4 (SD/EH) and #5 (PK/KO) will depend on match-ups, injuries, who's feeling it on a given night, and how each of these players develops/improves over the season. The nice thing is no team can totally prepare for us if all four are healthy/good to go. Also, we can improvise combinations to neutralize other teams front lines, give up necessary fouls as needed, go to the hot hand or best match up in a particular game, etc. The #3 is pretty close to the same set up with GLE/MH.

CDC84
11-20-2012, 04:25 PM
so is KO underappreciated?

I think what Kelly has been is a player who is much more gifted than what we have seen thus far. People forget that he was a guard in high school. I think his decision to redshirt was perfect. I can't wait to see him in action.

bostonzagfan
11-20-2012, 04:51 PM
eventually, we will see

harris 30 min

ko/pk/dower 15 min each

last 5 mins of the game goes to which of the three played the best/matchups!

DixieZag
11-20-2012, 04:56 PM
His redshirt was meant, in part, to let him learn to play as a 7 footer. And Few has said that he improved more than anyone.

I would, for now, play him exclusively as a 5. Let Elias start at 4, Sam is his rotation partner, leave PK and KO to share minutes exclusively at the 5.

gbnyba17
11-20-2012, 05:06 PM
The way i see it: bottom line is one of the 4 is going to be dissapointed with their PT on any given night. Harris is our guy and is too good and active on the boards to not get 30+ minutes a night. Also, he cannot play the 3 for long stretches. That leaves roughly 50 minutes a night for the other guys (PK, Dower, KO). Given the opponent and who has the hot hand should decide those minutes, but i imagine/hope it will be 20/15/15ish minutes for the other guys.

I cant see it any other way: play EH 30+, dont play him at the 3, play the hot hand of the remaining 3 guys, and if one of them proves more valuable to the success of the team then they should see a greater share of that 50 mins.

Can it be done any other way?

BMAN
11-20-2012, 05:50 PM
First of all, after the last game Tommy Lloyd talked about this on the radio. He said Kelly is good enough to be a starter. He said they have 4 starters for the 3 front line positions so they may have to rotate the starters each game. I believe the 4 are Dower, Harris , Kelly and Landry. Big K is a freshman so I guess he is not ready to start yet. That tells me that there are going to be games where Landry does not start and one of the other three starts at the 3

Also Few said on his tv show that they have run sets in practice with a big at the 3. He said it might not always work where the other team goes small as the big would have to guard the perimeter, but they are working on that.

So I assume we are going to see some minutes with one of the bigs (I assume Harris) playing the 3 spot.

My guess is that they take some minutes from Hart and Kyle.

2wiceright
11-20-2012, 05:52 PM
His redshirt was meant, in part, to let him learn to play as a 7 footer. And Few has said that he improved more than anyone.

I would, for now, play him exclusively as a 5. Let Elias start at 4, Sam is his rotation partner, leave PK and KO to share minutes exclusively at the 5.

+1 I also heard Few say after the South Dakota game (?) that right now Kelly is our best big man. He also said Kelly is ready to start playing "now"(but for the suspension) and he will be seeing a lot of playing time starting in this OSC tourney. I don't know what that means in terms of minutes but it bodes well for him (form what Few said) in terms of overall playing time.

It sounded to me like Kelly has already earned his minutes in practice and they're his to lose in games(depending how he plays under the lights). My prediction is Sam will eventually become a spark off the bench as Karno keeps improving over the year and those two (Kelly and Karno) will dominate the 5 spot (depending on lineups each game).

I love Sam and hope he doesn't get the short end of playing time, but if Kelly really plays as good as Few hints he will, I think Sam is more of a 4 this year or an occasional 5 if we go small or if Kelly gets into foul trouble early in games (until/if Karno can consistently run the floor and do a much better job rebounding). It's still very early in the season and I'm just speculating....My 2 cents!

El Zag
11-20-2012, 06:04 PM
I'd like to see Kelly get a shot at the 4. At 6'9 , he played guard in high
school. The last season that he played for the Zags , after we had lost half
of the first ten games , the Zags (sans Romeo in the second half) beat an undefeated (7-0) top ten Baylor team. Kelly contributed significantly in the second half . He drained a 3 towards the end that put us ahead to stay and
got some important rebounds.

Zagdawg
11-20-2012, 06:41 PM
Who earns the starting nod during the week in practice and matchups against our opponents will decide how the rotation works.

The good thing -- it sounds like they understand the team aspect -- and all want the team to succeed.

The cream rises to the top----they will be fine.

cggonzaga
11-20-2012, 07:10 PM
Nobody around here wants to hear it but Hart will be losing minutes once KO gets a few games under him. Harris will play minutes at the 3. We will play our top players. I'd love to see a rotation of KO/Harris to start with Karnowski/Dower coming off the bench. Harris then spells Edi after a little rest. Hart will get minutes but only at the 3 from now on and quite frankly there won't be minutes there.

cjm720
11-21-2012, 06:37 AM
Great OP. It's the magic question.

You have to think that Kanrasty and Dower's minute will decline but maybe coach is more comfortable going a big line-up at times.

Bottom line, it's a great problem to have.

SteelZag
11-21-2012, 07:12 AM
I like PK coming off the bench as a talented 7 footer. I doubt we will encounter many teams where their second unit has a big as skilled. Playing against a second unit or when their starters' are gassed="taking candy from a baby" for PK. Both Sam and PK can light it up in a hurry and as big men may actually be more comfortable playing fewer minutes than they have been.

Ultimately I thlink the lineup will be decided by matchups and who has the hot hand. Ride 'em hard and put 'em away wet! See which bigs play together the best, rebound hard and play some D and all should be well.:clap:

ZagsGoZags
11-21-2012, 07:19 AM
Gray's Anatomy said:

"With Kelly's outside shooting touch, I wonder if the 4 is a better spot for him than the 5? I know that he's a legit 7 footer, but I see him as more of a Dirk than a Howard. "

+1

HillBillyZag
11-21-2012, 02:27 PM
I'm going to cheer like hell for whomever is on the floor and leave the rest to Mark Few.

IrishZagFan
11-21-2012, 02:39 PM
I'm going to cheer like hell for whomever is on the floor and leave the rest to Mark Few.

Awesome! :cheers:

CDC84
11-21-2012, 02:59 PM
I think we all need to remind ourselves what a good problem this is to have.

Malastein
11-21-2012, 03:21 PM
I have a feeling he'll come out of the gate very strong. Just a hunch.

UberZagFan
11-21-2012, 03:32 PM
I'm going to cheer like hell for whomever is on the floor and leave the rest to Mark Few.

Agreed.


I think we all need to remind ourselves what a good problem this is to have.

Agreed.


caveat: as long as everyone accepts his role.

Baldwinzag
11-21-2012, 03:35 PM
I think we all need to remind ourselves what a good problem this is to have.

couldn't agree more, yet intrigued at how Sam & others(KO) will accept their newly respective roles...

Did anyone else notice how Karnowski was screaming at the guards to "get him the ball" last game? As much as I adore this mentality...can't help but think mins could be minimized going forward and "Shem" is already demanding the ball and taking shots when given every opportunity.

edit to add: just noticed uber eluded to the same thing.

NotoriousZ
11-21-2012, 05:27 PM
I think we all need to remind ourselves what a good problem this is to have.

Lovin' it, I'm not too worried about foul trouble these days. If I was Few, Kelly starts right away. For whatever reason, Sam just hasn't started the games well. Dower can still play his usual number of minutes, but he could be more effective off the bench.

I've never liked Harris at the three. He's a blue chip college four, and we've got some really nice options at the small forward spot anyway.

My only question is this--who's our best free throw shooting center? Kelly wasn't the best if I recall correctly, maybe he's better now? Shem seems like he can do well at the line, maybe a little freshman jitters?

MickMick
11-21-2012, 05:35 PM
I don't know how you keep Karnowski out of the lineup.

In my opinion, he is about 400 minutes of game experience away from not only being the best "big" on this team, but the best GU big of all time as well.

How can a super sized Batista be held back? I don't think he can.

SteelZag
11-22-2012, 05:05 AM
I don't know how you keep Karnowski out of the lineup.

In my opinion, he is about 400 minutes of game experience away from not only being the best "big" on this team, but the best GU big of all time as well.

How can a super sized Batista be held back? I don't think he can.

I can pretty much agree but have to wonder just how many minutes he can effectively play. If reports are accurate and KO starts, the second unit looks really strong with PK and Dower. One thing is for certain, once the ball gets into the post it ain't coming back out! Also, offensive rebounding shouldn't be much of a priority.