PDA

View Full Version : Game Thoughts



Zags11
11-12-2012, 10:22 PM
Wow. The Zags looke really, really good. The Defense stood out to me the most. I know the Mountaineers arent the best shooting team, but holding them to under 30% from the field. Zags held them to under 15% from 3 and Kilicli with just 5 points and 5 boards.

The Defense was a A+.

The offense was really good too. 50% from the field and over 55% from 3 point range. Karnowsi had a below average game but he is a freshman. Bell and pangos and Edi played really well. Hart was Heart for zags like always.
I was happy with the offense overall but free throws were horrid again.

The cons were The Refs...The refs....The refs.......and the refs.

Plus some poor shooting from the line. We need to work on turnovers too but cant complain with a 30+ win.

Everyone else>

TacomaZAG
11-12-2012, 10:25 PM
were the FT shooting and giving up too many offensive rebounds. A great effort and victory for early in the year.

The Kennel Club brought it big time tonight.

Go ZAGS

Birddog
11-12-2012, 10:27 PM
The Refs are really gonna need a long soak in the Whirlpool after that effort.

MDABE80
11-12-2012, 10:30 PM
Karno needs to get in better shape. Struggling for air. His normal elevation is decent but in the 2nd half he barely could jump. Good kid and a very good player ( passing especially) . He needs to lose some weight and go hard. He can be magnificent if he loses 20 lbs. Hard worker. He'll do that.

CDC84
11-12-2012, 10:31 PM
Karnowski has already lost 15 pounds since he's been at GU. He will lose more as the season moves forward. He's making an effort to trim down. A couple of the foul calls on him tonight were absolute lunacy.

Oregonzagnut
11-12-2012, 10:33 PM
We are the real deal. FT's are our only weak spot. I agree TacomaZag, ORB's are not great either but 60% isn't going to cut it at the line!! We still out rebounded them by 5 according to the box.

Plus our guards owned their guards. on both ends.

GonzaGAW
11-12-2012, 10:36 PM
- defense outstanding, to turn wvu over 15 times in the first half!
- pangos and bell, great games.
- edi is relentless, defending the ball everywhere on the court, he is reminding me of mike hart, but with an offensive gave.

- the yeah buts.....rebounding and free throw shooting was terrible. seemed like the guys routinely missed the first and made the second, even pangos.

- as good as the defense was overall, sure looked like wvu had a dozen or more good looks at a 3, but they could not shoot tonight to save their souls. we better have better perimeter defense against our wcc foes and davidson, as it looks like they are the best bet to be in the old spice finals.

- bottom line, great game, its early we can work on the yeah buts and improve.

CDC84
11-12-2012, 10:38 PM
Another thing that needs to get fixed.....Stockton is still way too loose with the basketball. It's a trend that started in the 2nd half of WCC play last year and hasn't been corrected. He had 5 turnovers tonight, and all of them were boneheaded errors. I still get nervous every time he brings the ball up the court against BCS level guards. Few had to have Bell bring the ball up a couple of times to help take the heat off of David.

zagamatic
11-12-2012, 10:43 PM
Huggie bear probably won't intentionally schedule us for some time. Just saying
Also keep in mind that we had Elias in foul trouble with limited production and without KO, who is our "most improved player"

MickMick
11-12-2012, 10:51 PM
About what you would expect for the first big test. It is early.

The Zags are not a well oiled machine yet, but they are chock full of hoops IQ and scoring.

Jackson Stevenett for Southern Utah is the best opposing player I have seen to date. He would start for WVU and I'm not joking either. They really, really need a reliable scorer.

hooter73
11-12-2012, 10:56 PM
for where we are into the season, Im generally satisfied with how were playing. Honestly this was another 3/4 effort to win type game, with some of that effort just trying to stay ina good mental place despite the refs. We're playing well but still start of season sloppy. And we still havent had a real test yet.

KO will change the dynamic and once Drew and the other new guys keep plugging along, they will get more comfortable and better. I think we can already feel bad for the majority of the WCC games as we are going to be fired up and working toward refinement by the time conference play kicks off.

We're not great, but were on the right track.

Oregonzagnut
11-12-2012, 11:01 PM
The Zags are not a well oiled machine yet, but they are chock full of hoops IQ and scoring.

Jackson Stevenett for Southern Utah is the best opposing player I have seen to date. He would start for WVU and I'm not joking either. They really, really need a reliable scorer.

I agree with Stevenette, he shot well. but I do think we are "well oiled". Especially to start the season. IMO. Very tight defensively, and we are familiar with each other and pretty organized and efficient offensively. Maybe not an elite hi performance Formula 1 yet, but we will get some serious conversation this week for averaging a 36 pt margin of victory and starting 2-0.

WVU got 3 votes in the AP poll so they aren't chump change but this is one of the best all around teams we have ever had this early in the season.

At least IMO.

MickMick
11-12-2012, 11:06 PM
I agree with Stevenette, he shot well. but I do think we are "well oiled". Especially to start the season. IMO. Very tight defensively, and we are familiar with each other and pretty organized and efficient offensively. Maybe not an elite hi performance Formula 1 yet, but we will get some serious conversation this week for averaging a 36 pt margin of victory and starting 2-0.

WVU got 3 votes in the AP poll so they aren't chump change but this is one of the best all around teams we have ever had this early in the season.

At least IMO.

Just wait a few games and you will see what a "well oiled machine" really is.

This team is going to blow your mind.

cggonzaga
11-12-2012, 11:09 PM
We're not great, but were on the right track.

Disagree. We'll be top 10 before long. This is a great TEAM! Best we've been maybe ever. I truly believe that. I don't care 2 games or not.

ZagaZags
11-13-2012, 01:21 AM
Huggie bear probably won't intentionally schedule us for some time. Just saying
Also keep in mind that we had Elias in foul trouble with limited production and without KO, who is our "most improved player"

We do play WVU next season at WVU.:starwars:

zagfan24
11-13-2012, 04:37 AM
This team is going to be tough to stop if they continue to demonstrate the offensive balance and unselfishness they showed last night. Multiple players that can create their own shot and almost everybody (except Karno) can hit from long range.

I thought GBJ played incredibly well last night. Stellar defense, great shooting, and even showcased his pg skills on occasion. IMO, his only major area to improve on from last year was assertiveness and he seems to be well on his way.

Areas to fix - TO's, FT shooting, and rebounding. The first two are fairly common early in the season and I am confident will improve over the year. The rebounding issue doesn't seem to be a hustle issue, but a product of poor blocking out and positioning. That can be fixed, but I think it's a dangerous one at this point. A team with good outside shooters can kill you with open 3's resulting from offensive rebounds.

titopoet
11-13-2012, 04:38 AM
What is most impressive for me is that at any time Few can throw out 5 skilled talented players that all have a high Basketball IQ and are unselfish. There are 10 or 11 guys on this team that have such a high IQ. The assists, the lack of turnovers, every guy being where their suppost to be.

This a nightmare team to prepare for. Who do you key on? each player can turn around and burn you and the stars can turn around and do the dirty work.

Collectively, this is a really high IQ team.

TexasZagFan
11-13-2012, 05:01 AM
Another thing that needs to get fixed.....Stockton is still way too loose with the basketball. It's a trend that started in the 2nd half of WCC play last year and hasn't been corrected. He had 5 turnovers tonight, and all of them were boneheaded errors. I still get nervous every time he brings the ball up the court against BCS level guards. Few had to have Bell bring the ball up a couple of times to help take the heat off of David.

+1

Dower was way too passive in the 2nd half. His mug was being downloaded by a few dairies to put on their milk cartons.

Sam's got the talent to be WCC POY, but he disappears for too many minutes.

Oregonzagnut
11-13-2012, 05:18 AM
This a nightmare team to prepare for. Who do you key on? each player can turn around and burn you and the stars can turn around and do the dirty work.

Collectively, this is a really high IQ team.

Exactly and precisely said. They can't really prepare for any one person. Every team that plays us knows they have to come as a team and try to shut down our system and our teamwork game flow. If our opponent can't do that, we will surgically wear them down and our defense is as good as I have seen.

EVERY player is fundamentally sound. No H.S. NBA wanna bes, and no individual attitudes of "me first" We can beat any team filled with those type of guys and I don't care if it is KU! We can hang with KU if Maryland can hand with KU.

mnzag24
11-13-2012, 05:33 AM
Another thing that needs to get fixed.....Stockton is still way too loose with the basketball. It's a trend that started in the 2nd half of WCC play last year and hasn't been corrected. He had 5 turnovers tonight, and all of them were boneheaded errors. I still get nervous every time he brings the ball up the court against BCS level guards. Few had to have Bell bring the ball up a couple of times to help take the heat off of David.

This. I love his intensity but i do not like when he brings the ball up the court--teams will 1-1 full court press him all day. Also, some sloppy passes at the top of the key when trying to get back into the offense. Not just from stockton, but from everyone.

Overall, love what i saw. Even for being "a little out of shape" Karno is smooth and a great passer.

Club Prez
11-13-2012, 05:42 AM
We can hang with KU if Maryland can hand with KU.

When did Maryland hand with Kansas?

JPtheBeasta
11-13-2012, 05:45 AM
When did Maryland hand with Kansas?

The other KU

rijman
11-13-2012, 05:52 AM
I'm not sure I can take too much from this game score. The refs took away the flow of the game calling 52 fouls, including many ticky tack and ghost calls, then VW had a terrible first half, which may be the worst half they play all season. Every season teams play a few games above their norm and few games below it, I think this was one of those games WV played below their norm. I think their norm is likely closer to their second half play, losing to the Zags by 7. I am pleased with the Zags play on offense and defense, they looked good despite the ugly game.

LongIslandZagFan
11-13-2012, 05:53 AM
Splash of cold water here.

First off... WVU's craptastic shooting, IMHO, was not a result of great D on our boys parts. Many of missed shots were open looks.

Rebounding flat out sucked, especially the defensive boards... They got 2 sometimes 3 chances on those horrible shots... A better shooting team would have eaten the Zags alive.

60% at the line just plain unacceptable.

Not to be a negative nancy here, but a middling BCS conference team thumps the Zags last night.

LongIslandZagFan
11-13-2012, 05:55 AM
The other KU

There is only one KU... Which is Kansas. Kentucky is UK.

Zagdawg
11-13-2012, 06:31 AM
West Virginia is a middling BCS team......... and someone else was doing the thumping.



As "bad" as the Zags played-- they make some adjustments and they will be fine.

RenoZag
11-13-2012, 06:31 AM
I like the depth, the hustle, the defensive effort.

I'm a fan of Mike Hart so it's cool to see him making some outside shots on open looks; he was snakebit last year.

bballbeachbum
11-13-2012, 06:45 AM
nice to get a home game like this to start the year. Pretty obvious home court can be a big advantage, especially early in the year when everything is so unknown. The program deserves lots of credit for earning that respect and opportunity to get a West Virginia team to come and play an opener in the Kennel.

nice win too. my only wish is for earlier start times, 9 is past my bed time. Big K looks quicker than I expected, definitley trimmer, very good early signs.

VinnyZag
11-13-2012, 07:23 AM
I think the rebounding issue is at least partly a product of what seems to be a different defensive philosophy by the coaches this year.

GU used to sag, pack the lane, make teams shoot over the top and crash the defensive boards. This team, by contrast, seems committed to applying ball pressure, denying the wings, getting in passing lanes. That forces more turnovers but leaves you vulnerable on the boards because the defenders aren't all packed into the key.

zagitup
11-13-2012, 08:18 AM
Rebounding flat out sucked, especially the defensive boards... They got 2 sometimes 3 chances on those horrible shots... A better shooting team would have eaten the Zags alive.


I guess I wasn't as concerned about most of WVU's offensive boards as I normally would've been, simply because of "those horrible shots". Those shots were clanking so badly that the rebound trajectories were closer to horizontal than they were vertical. Any Zag who gained good position for a rebound usually didn't stand a chance when the ball ended up 15 feet away from the hoop.

Of greater concern was the foul shooting...after being 70+% in the Nazarene exhibition, we've sort of tanked. Also, having Tower of Dower pull a Houdini in the second half was alarming to me...c'mon Sammy...we need you!

combatcorpsmangulaw
11-13-2012, 08:30 AM
I'm happy w/ the performance of the Team -- Zags played nice up-tempo game, spread the ball around unselfishly, and stayed tough the entire game.

On the other hand, the Refs were AWFUL. Some of those calls were ridiculous and destroyed the flow of the game. I don't think there are too many fans that want to see the refs take the game away from the players. That definitely happened last night. 52 Fouls!!!! Come on.

Early fouls can be justified in order to have some control of the game if it appears as though the players are too aggressive. But, the on-going "blow the whistle on every play" mentality is uncalled for and this particular group of refs got continually worse as the game proceeded.

Again, Fans don't come to watch a game in order to see the Refs. Someone should tell that, maybe the NCAA or a Ref supervisor who can see what's happening on the floor.

CDC84
11-13-2012, 08:55 AM
From a defensive standpoint, the GU coaches were more than happy with WVU taking all those wide open shots. They were daring them. Why? Because they can't shoot from a distance. They couldn't last year, and they can't this year. The Mountaineers couldn't get any points in the paint in that game. GU doubled almost everytime, and the Zags were not going to seriously guard the perimeter until their guards/wings started knocking them down.

The rebounding drove me bonkers at times last night...the second and third chances....but that sort of thing is just going to happen at times when you're playing zone defense and the opposing team is missing from distance. Especially when you're up by that many points.

LongIslandZagFan
11-13-2012, 08:57 AM
West Virginia is a middling BCS team......... and someone else was doing the thumping.



As "bad" as the Zags played-- they make some adjustments and they will be fine.

Unless they start playing differently, WVU won't be middling this year... They'll be bottom feeding. I really hope not. Hoping it was just an off night.

Don't get me wrong, I think this Zag team has massive potential... But let's not hype them after that showing... There was just as much stuff to be unhappy about as there was to be happy about. If this was any team that could at least approach hitting the side of the barn it wouldn't have been close to a blow out and the sloppy play would have really bitten the zags badly.

Let's see a bigger body of work before we go off too much.

zagzilla
11-13-2012, 09:08 AM
I was at the game last night and thought we looked pretty solid for early in the season. WV was not as bad as they looked tonight and they will get better as the new players get to know each other.

The stat I was pleased to see in the box score this AM was 17 assists. This was coming off of 18 assists vs SUU.

This team passes very well already and that will only get better.

Besides the FT shooting, I was not happy to see us get blocked at the rim as much as we did. Box score said only 4 blocks for them but it seemed like more. SUU swatted a bunch as well. Need to finish strong at the rim.

Great win.

Go Zags

ZZ

zag69
11-13-2012, 09:49 AM
Did I really see Kilicli unable to fight through a Stockton pick? If so, I'm totally impressed with the kid.

007Zag
11-13-2012, 10:24 AM
You did, but that was more laziness/fatigue than Stockton.

DCZag
11-13-2012, 10:43 AM
The game was difficult to watch because there was never a flow - the refs called 50+ fouls.

We have a deep and talented team and KO didn't play - we are gonna be scary good if they all come together and play to their potential.

My main concerns were horrible FT shooting - you will not win in the tourney shooting below 70%. We allowed too many O rebounds, and we had several really careless TOs that would bite us in the arse against better teams.

Overall though, great effort and proud of my Zags. One thing's for sure, they aren't soft.

Bring on South Dakota!

jim77
11-13-2012, 10:58 AM
The refs really messed up the flow of the game. But, it was nice to know we have a ton of fouls to give if such things happen. Our defense played well...and their inability to hit an open shot also helped. It was a good showing for the Zags but, we might see these same WV Mountaineers in a couple of weeks...and it will probably be a lot closer...good win though.

No matter who we put into the game, it always seems like the starters are in. I think attrition is one of the Zag's biggest weapons this year. The other team may have a nice top 5 but, we can play hard from tip to horn with no let up....we are a dangerous team. As other teams fatique they will foul more...we need to make them pay.

U Zig, I Zag
11-13-2012, 11:26 AM
I thought the Zags played a great, tough game - especially since the flow was so choppy because of the (awful) calls (thankfully they were evenly spread, so that strawman can get tossed).

Edi was a good surprise. I know he has the athleticism that the Zags need, but he also seemed to be playing more "basketball" than he has previously. Watch him off-ball on both sides of the court - he makes the right moves. Backcuts, crawling through screens, etc. He is a huge asset.

The major players from last year did their things. E gets off to a slow start anymore. Not sure what it is, but if he isn't going right out of the gate he seems to get in foul trouble, lose his man, tries to hard to make it happen on offense, etc. Same can be said for Dower, actually. If I was the coaching staff the first bullet on the list would be to get Sam going. If he doesn't start on on the right foot then he tends to get listless and disinterested. Him and Karno have some good chemistry and are willing to feed the ball to each other. This was good to see.

Pangos, Bell, Hart - all played well and did what was expected. The aggressiveness of the WVU guards bothered our kids a bit but they got through it. Karno will be a beast come WCC play (if not sooner). Just the way he positions his hands when he is passing lets you know that he understands the game. Great fundamentals. Going to be exciting watching him develop.

Kyle and Drew looked a little out of place. Drew is bothered by the mask and 'vulnerability' of that whole situation. I don't envy him one bit. He is always fiddling with it (the mask) and in limited action in 3 games he has still managed to take hits to the face. Kyle will be a good role player. He is great vision, especially driving and dishing. He needs about 15lbs though. What he wants to do (mufti-faceted, drive and dish, setup shooter, playing down in the trees) requires a little more bulk (not Bouldin ripped, but closer to that then not).

Stockton is an enigma. More often then not I am glad when he comes in. He brings a little more flair to the court than Pangos does. I am not bothered by some aggressive passing that turns into TO's - they are not all homeruns, but you have to toss the long ball now and again (metaphors: mixed). I AM bothered by that stupid @ss low dribble through a crowd that resulted into silly TO's. Risk that has potential for reward is OK - but silly TO's make me want to scream.

As a team, the D was great. Aggressive for a Zags team, IMHO. Especially this early in the season. Not sitting on our heals = good.

Rebounding seemed bad (eye test). We kept some balls alive and pulled down some boards (obviously) but we butter-fingered and missed a bunch of them. Dower especially. I don't remember his hands being that unsteady - he lost/missed/fumbled the ball a lot :(

I am of the opinion that in some parts of the game WVU would have missed shots and thrown the ball away if Few had tossed out 5 spare tires on the court instead of putting players out there. Still, I like to think the D had something to do with it. ;)

Going to be a good season.

Oregonzagnut
11-13-2012, 03:13 PM
When did Maryland hand with Kansas?

"Hang with UK." Sorry for typing way too fast last night.

ZenZag
11-13-2012, 03:41 PM
I sure would like to see Dower get some fire in his belly. I see so much potential in that kid but I just don't think he plays "hungry" enough. He comes across as a really mellow guy.....which is fine.....but isn't there some way to get him playing a little more angry?

Otherwise.....I am stoked for this season.....esp when KO enters the picture...I have very high hopes for him this year. So much talent and play-making ability on this team.....and the basketball IQ goes deep into the bench....

john montana
11-13-2012, 03:44 PM
KD oozes potential to me, but he is simply too hesitant right now. He's got great skills and vision, lacks a little strength but mostly he just needs experience. He is one of those guys with a great feel for the game. When his confidence is up, I think he'll be a handful for anyone to guard. I just hope he continues to get minutes so he can get reps and confidence.

JPtheBeasta
11-13-2012, 03:51 PM
There is only one KU... Which is Kansas. Kentucky is UK.

But of course. Thanks for the clarification/correction. I have a good buddy from Kansas who would be p!ssed if I ever called Kentucky "KU". I just see Kentucky erroneously referred to as KU a lot.

BobZag
11-13-2012, 03:59 PM
Need a bigger sample size. After the Old Spice Classic, we should all have a better handle on this team. WVU was simply too lousy to gauge much on. I do hope Huggy turns it around and WVU helps our RPI. Lots of quality talent, just needs to gel them into a cohesive squad.

cggonzaga
11-13-2012, 04:12 PM
To add to Kidwell

Pangos played only 18 min.

We just beat a West Virginia team, that beats every team in our league on any given night, by 34 without breaking much of a sweat. Our top 2 players hardly played in the first half and possibly our 3rd best player didn't play period. I just don't get what people are #####ing about and seem to be afraid to recognize this team is the real deal. I honestly don't know if we play a close game in the OOC. Hopefully Baylor and we're both in the top 10 and undefeated at the time.

Kiddwell
11-13-2012, 04:13 PM
*45-18 at the half w/Elias on bench most of that time
*Guy played a consistent game; kept us focused early on
*Over-all performance seemed a bit ragged, yet we win going away
*Gary was great
*Karnivore didn't seem overwhelmed or rattled
*Zags vaporize Mountaineers and haven't even unleashed KO yet
*Refs first game too
*Bet our ranking goes up next Monday


:]

3zagda
11-13-2012, 04:17 PM
Great to see us put a game away so early!
One thing that worries me that we have seen by Zag teams before, a really slow start. Did we really miss 10 of our first 11 shots, as one article said? If we do that against a good rebounding and shooting team, we will be in a big whole. Fortunately WVU could not hit the side of a barn in the first half.
Started slow against SUU as well. With the shooting skills we seem to have, I don't understand it. I guess its nerves.
Maybe GBJ should always take the first 3 shots to get us going!

UberZagFan
11-13-2012, 04:35 PM
Edi was fantastic and will be seriously gunning for that most improved award!


p.s. that WVU team that showed up last night does not beat every other WCC team.

GeorgiaZagFan
11-13-2012, 09:13 PM
....Free Throw shooting. That has to improve. Everything else is a waste of analysis.
They got 15 offensive rebounds....not a big deal as they clanked 23 shots from three that were bouncing all over the place.

They had many wide open looks from 3 ...not a big deal because we were shutting down the inside game knowing they were bad shooters.

Stockton had 5 TO's ....not a big deal cause 4 of them came in the 2nd half when the score was +30 for the Zags. 3 to 1 assist in the first half when it was somewhat meaningful.

Karnowski looked great at times and at other times looked a step behind ...but hard to tell the way the refs were calling it what kind of impact he will have. If they call every little touch foul from him, it will be frustrating.

I thought Edi and Bell both got us going when we needed it ....everything else is just being over-analyzed....will know more after playing a couple of "real" games where we only win by 15-20 :)

gbnyba17
11-13-2012, 10:46 PM
Not to be a negative nancy here, but a middling BCS conference team thumps the Zags last night.

Are you kidding me!? I agree with your later comment that we need to wait for a larger sample size before drawing too many conclusions, but IMHO the above statement is foolish. Regardless of who we played, the Zags played a very good basketball game last night (especially considering it was only their second of the year) and it would have taken a GREAT effort by most teams in the country to beat us.

Take it for what it's worth but just my two cents. I think your comment was far too extreme.

LongIslandZagFan
11-14-2012, 03:41 AM
Are you kidding me!? I agree with your later comment that we need to wait for a larger sample size before drawing too many conclusions, but IMHO the above statement is foolish. Regardless of who we played, the Zags played a very good basketball game last night (especially considering it was only their second of the year) and it would have taken a GREAT effort by most teams in the country to beat us.

Take it for what it's worth but just my two cents. I think your comment was far too extreme.

Just look at the post above yours. Against most other the teams, especially BCS schools.... wide open 3s and getting killed on the defensive boards and sloppy play is a quick path to defeat.

Just ask yourself... at any point during the game did you find yourself getting frustrated with what you were seeing? I know I did. The play was sloppy, the 2nd and 3rd opportunities that they luckily wasted, the stress of just about any Zag going to the line and you wonder if they are going to hit it rather than expect them to. The slow start could have easily translated into a deep deep hole.

I'm happy about the win... there were bright spots... but lets not start to anoint them as NC just yet, especially after that game.

TexasZagFan
11-14-2012, 04:50 AM
Just look at the post above yours. Against most other the teams, especially BCS schools.... wide open 3s and getting killed on the defensive boards and sloppy play is a quick path to defeat.

Just ask yourself... at any point during the game did you find yourself getting frustrated with what you were seeing? I know I did. The play was sloppy, the 2nd and 3rd opportunities that they luckily wasted, the stress of just about any Zag going to the line and you wonder if they are going to hit it rather than expect them to. The slow start could have easily translated into a deep deep hole.

I'm happy about the win... there were bright spots... but lets not start to anoint them as NC just yet, especially after that game.

I always enjoy the OOC season, when everybody has that extra spring in their step. Remember how Pangos was anointed after drilling 9 3's against Wazzu? IIRC, it got really rocky for him as the season wore on.

I'm looking for a bigger sample size, too. We aren't going to hit 60% of our 3's every game, so the sloppy play and turnovers have to be minimized.

This team's got the potential to enjoy a deep run in March, but I'm hoping that the coaching staff will manage the minutes to keep everyone as fresh as possible.

I'm as excited as the rest of you, but there's much more work to be done.

LongIslandZagFan
11-14-2012, 05:51 AM
I always enjoy the OOC season, when everybody has that extra spring in their step. Remember how Pangos was anointed after drilling 9 3's against Wazzu? IIRC, it got really rocky for him as the season wore on.

I'm looking for a bigger sample size, too. We aren't going to hit 60% of our 3's every game, so the sloppy play and turnovers have to be minimized.

This team's got the potential to enjoy a deep run in March, but I'm hoping that the coaching staff will manage the minutes to keep everyone as fresh as possible.

I'm as excited as the rest of you, but there's much more work to be done.

Bingo. +1,000,000

Baldwinzag
11-14-2012, 06:02 AM
I always enjoy the OOC season, when everybody has that extra spring in their step. Remember how Pangos was anointed after drilling 9 3's against Wazzu? IIRC, it got really rocky for him as the season wore on.

I'm looking for a bigger sample size, too. We aren't going to hit 60% of our 3's every game, so the sloppy play and turnovers have to be minimized.

This team's got the potential to enjoy a deep run in March, but I'm hoping that the coaching staff will manage the minutes to keep everyone as fresh as possible.

I'm as excited as the rest of you, but there's much more work to be done.

Yup, and its no coincidence Pangos pretty much shared the same sentiment in post-game interviews and social media.

"it was a nice team win, yet still have work to do. we are always thankful, yet never satisfied".

side note: we are still thin up front(well, until KO returns) & considering Elias & Karnowski were both playing with 4 fouls late in the game, we were pretty fortunate to be up by 30 or it could have become a serious issue vs better team...as of right now, we are an injury or foul trouble away from being exposed in the front court. We have only 4 bigs on our entire roster, yes, those bigs are highly skilled/talented/tall, but they account for every post player we have available. a potential issue down the road, imo.

JPtheBeasta
11-14-2012, 07:15 AM
a potential issue down the road, imo.

+1. It'd be nice to have a red-shirt waiting in the wings, or a Spangler. It's been worse though- do you remember Ira! being used at the four in spurts? That was scary.

007Zag
11-14-2012, 07:29 AM
I'm not concerned about our front court depth. I don't expect much of a challenge from North Dakota and then we get KO back, so that point will be moot. Any other group of four would be plenty deep, it just turns out that all four of ours are really good and we expect them all to play. That doesn't change the fact that there are only so minutes we need to cover, and four is plenty to do it. I'm grateful instead that "covering" the leftover minutes with our fourth big will not be a drop off in any way.

titopoet
11-14-2012, 07:30 AM
Just look at the post above yours. Against most other the teams, especially BCS schools.... wide open 3s and getting killed on the defensive boards and sloppy play is a quick path to defeat.

Just ask yourself... at any point during the game did you find yourself getting frustrated with what you were seeing? I know I did. The play was sloppy, the 2nd and 3rd opportunities that they luckily wasted, the stress of just about any Zag going to the line and you wonder if they are going to hit it rather than expect them to. The slow start could have easily translated into a deep deep hole.

I'm happy about the win... there were bright spots... but lets not start to anoint them as NC just yet, especially after that game.

It seems that was the product of scouting and good coaching. Their shooter (numbering one) never got an open look. Yes others got open looks, and like any good coach, Few said hit if you can prove to me you can, until then I will have guys go for the rebound and release to the basket.
Few also took the time to work on his 2-3 zone.

For those that think the West Virginia was a weak going to lose 20 games type of team, the reality is that will be a good team come march. Top fifty type of team. The had several things working against them. Early season, new guys, late night and on the road to an experienced top 25 team. Not the best place to find out about your team.

On another note, GBJ ran the point for about 5 minutes and looked really good. Having two guys like Pangos and Bell that can run the point is such a luxury for Few. This team will continue to put in much more stuff before the start of WCC, it way ahead of last years team in that regard.

Finally, on a side note, with 6 minutes one of the announcers asked why Few had his starters still in. In reality, the only starters that was in was E and Dower. Sub them out for Hart and Karno would have not been a drop. Drew coming for E would not have happened as Drew had already been in and felt the sting of an elbow to his broken nose. Meaning, that GU is lacking scrubs on the bench that only come in on blowouts.

DixieZag
11-14-2012, 07:35 AM
Just my two cents, for whatever it is worth.

I agree with the commenters that want Sam to get more aggressive and "own" the middle - - as an example of how to do that all he need do is look over at Elias (when Elias is not napping on the court) and his attitude when he decides to really take it to the other team.

I wouldn't go so far to call Sam soft - - but he certainly could be more aggressive, especially defensively.

I also agree with LIZF that the game left one hell of a lot to be desired. Yes, we crushed them, but it is nearly mathematically impossible to not crush a team that shoots 1-13 or whatever they were from the field in the first half. But, most of the sloppiness that I saw was almost inevitable b/c of the lack of flow, fouls and the fact that we played everybody, 10 deep in the first half.

As for WVU - I suspect they will at least be competitive in their conference b/c they have the athletes and Huggins can coach his asteroid off, so I think this win will look alright as the season goes on.

I looked at the SMC board, they would kill for a win against a Tier one conference team. Literally, their 2 "big" OOC games are Utah State (respectable, but not Arizona) and Drexel (same). They "could" wind up playing Cal in Anaheim but that is it for teams we have heard of in their OOC schedule. I just do not understand how our current league champion and very very good team is not out running with the Michigans, Syracuse etc. They would chalk up a loss or two but they would also beat a lot of people with this team which would help the league and us.

As it is, if they lose one or two OOC games, have no real quality wins - then we look bad if (when?) they kick our asteroid in Moraga and no one outside of the WCC knows how damn good they are.

Sorry to change subject, it just really drives me crazy. Delly, love or hate him, has worked so hard for 4 years and is an incredible leader, doesn't he deserve the chance to play in NYC - Atlanta - Charlotte in front of the east coast media and go against the top talent in the country? That (ugly) kid has EARNED the right to play and beat the best. Just. Do. Not. Get. It.

zagitup
11-14-2012, 08:02 AM
I'm not concerned about our front court depth. I don't expect much of a challenge from North Dakota and then we get KO back, so that point will be moot. Any other group of four would be plenty deep, it just turns out that all four of ours are really good and we expect them all to play. That doesn't change the fact that there are only so minutes we need to cover, and four is plenty to do it. I'm grateful instead that "covering" the leftover minutes with our fourth big will not be a drop off in any way.

I think you meant South Dakota....

BTW, we'll be SD's fourth game in 5 days when we play them Sunday; they'll have just finished playing in the Global Sports Showcase tourney in Laramie, WY. Their gonna be one tired bunch of Coyotes when they get to the MAC to play our talented boys.

CDC84
11-14-2012, 08:05 AM
Unfortunately, it's getting more and more difficult to carry a fifth big man on the roster, although GU will have that luxury next season. Those kids want playing time. If your 6-10 and have any kind of ability, you'll start your freshman year at most D-1 schools.

In terms of frontcourt depth, my only concern with this year's team is if either Karnowski or Olynyk were to get hurt for any extended length of time. Gonzaga is in a better position to withstand at injury to either of its power forwards due to Olynyk's versatility.

The thing that I am more worried about is if either one of the team's point guards were to get hurt. It's much more difficult to cover for a missing point guard than a missing power forward in the modern college game (witness Kentucky last night). I continue to be in favor of giving Dranginis PT at point guard during garbage time in case something were to happen. He needs to be prepared to step in if needed.

Baldwinzag
11-14-2012, 08:17 AM
Unfortunately, it's getting more and more difficult to carry a fifth big man on the roster, although GU will have that luxury next season. Those kids want playing time. If your 6-10 and have any kind of ability, you'll start your freshman year at most D-1 schools.

In terms of frontcourt depth, my only concern with this year's team is if either Karnowski or Olynyk were to get hurt for any extended length of time. Gonzaga is in a better position to withstand at injury to either of its power forwards due to Olynyk's versatility.

The thing that I am more worried about is if either one of the team's point guards were to get hurt. It's much more difficult to cover for a missing point guard than a missing power forward in the modern college game (witness Kentucky last night). I continue to be in favor of giving Dranginis PT at point guard during garbage time in case something were to happen. He needs to be prepared to step in if needed.

Good point(s), CDC.

No doubt, we need every "5" man we can get, especially post-season.

Speaking of Dranginis...that kid can ball. He may have only played 10-15 mins every time out this season, yet he gets "it". From swift passes, dribble-drive moves, sweet looking stroke, back-door cuts, and using his length to find the rim has been a breathe of fresh air and somewhat pleasant surprise.

If we want to throw around "X-factor", this guy could be it for us, and may start logging major mins, in WCC especially.

Just as much as Olynyk is 'versatile', so is Kyle. Thus far, he's played PG, SG, W, all with relative ease. Sometimes I don't realize he's in the game, and that's a good thing, b/c he plays like he belongs. like a seasoned starter.

Happy to have him around and predict his 10 mpg are going to make a big difference for us down the road.

zag944
11-14-2012, 08:26 AM
Splash of cold water here.

First off... WVU's craptastic shooting, IMHO, was not a result of great D on our boys parts. Many of missed shots were open looks.

Rebounding flat out sucked, especially the defensive boards... They got 2 sometimes 3 chances on those horrible shots... A better shooting team would have eaten the Zags alive.

60% at the line just plain unacceptable.

Not to be a negative nancy here, but a middling BCS conference team thumps the Zags last night.

agree with the flaws you point out, but completely disagree with the general sentiment of your post (unless you are addressing imaginary and/or crazy people who think we are Duke or Kentucky good right now).

Getting wins against BCS teams (and I would call WV middling) is always something we should be very happy about. There are obvious kinks that need to be worked out, but I think GU fans should be feeling a lot better than most the nation about our team right now. By no means does anyone think there isnt a ton of work to do, but every team has things to work on coming out of the opening gate.

sheps001
11-14-2012, 08:37 AM
It was so good seeing the game in HD. It must have been so exciting being there. The crowd was so stoked. I'm from Chicago and have limited opportunity to see the Zags in person (generally once a year) and then as a miniscule minority at the game. If they win, great! But if they lose and I have been through this twice the drive back is terrible and generally in bad weather (Notre Dame two years ago Illinois at Urbana last year.

Can't imagine what it's like when your in the majority at the Kennel 2. Must be absolutely rockin. We do have a nice Gu Chapter here and this is nice.

CDC84
11-14-2012, 09:06 AM
I wish there were more minutes for Dranginis. What I like to how good of a rebounder he is as a guard and how adept he is at driving the basketball and making plays for others at the same time.

zaguarxj
11-14-2012, 09:13 AM
It was so good seeing the game in HD. It must have been so exciting being there. The crowd was so stoked. I'm from Chicago and have limited opportunity to see the Zags in person (generally once a year) and then as a miniscule minority at the game. If they win, great! But if they lose and I have been through this twice the drive back is terrible and generally in bad weather (Notre Dame two years ago Illinois at Urbana last year.

Can't imagine what it's like when your in the majority at the Kennel 2. Must be absolutely rockin. We do have a nice Gu Chapter here and this is nice.
I need to get myself into a K2 game when the students are in session this year. So far, the only games I've attended are when they're on break. Fun but not the same.

zaguarxj
11-14-2012, 09:20 AM
Just look at the post above yours. Against most other the teams, especially BCS schools.... wide open 3s and getting killed on the defensive boards and sloppy play is a quick path to defeat.

Just ask yourself... at any point during the game did you find yourself getting frustrated with what you were seeing? I know I did. The play was sloppy, the 2nd and 3rd opportunities that they luckily wasted, the stress of just about any Zag going to the line and you wonder if they are going to hit it rather than expect them to. The slow start could have easily translated into a deep deep hole.

I'm happy about the win... there were bright spots... but lets not start to anoint them as NC just yet, especially after that game.If WV hit 10 of the shots they missted and 5 of those were 3's, they'd have ended up 25-55... and still lost.