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View Full Version : The St. Mary's/NCAA investigation question as it pertains to Gonzaga



basketballzag
11-12-2012, 09:24 AM
It is clear the NCAA will impose significant sanctions against the St. Mary's basketball program for illegal recruiting violations. There are rumors at this point that part of the sanctions will include the loss of all games St. Mary won last year. If this is true then would Gonzaga's conference win streak still be in tact?

ZAGGED OUT
11-12-2012, 09:36 AM
Where did you hear anything about possible violations? Just curious as I haven't seen/heard anything since it was first reported

FlyZag
11-12-2012, 09:40 AM
I would rather win on the court!

zag944
11-12-2012, 09:47 AM
I think in college sports accomplishments are generally just taken away. Memphis' wins were vacated a couple years ago, but they dont give every team they beat a win instead of a loss. I dont think they even take the loss away from the losing coach.

Regardless, I hope the punishments arent severe. They should issue a formal apology for Omar since no one likes him, but otherwise hopefully nothing happens.

KStyles
11-12-2012, 10:04 AM
USC beat Oklahoma in the 2005 BCS National Championship game and were declared champions. USC was later forced to vacate that victory. The title of champion didn't default to Oklahoma, there is just now no national champion from the 2004-2005 season. I'd think that a conference championship would be a similar situation, where the punished team is forced to vacate their title, but the title doesn't fall to a runner-up and just remains vacant.

BobZag
11-12-2012, 10:12 AM
I would rather win on the court!

What is your avatar?

webspinnre
11-12-2012, 10:46 AM
The short answer is no. If it was bad enough to force SMC to vacate the title, the title would just be empty. That being said, nothing I've heard has suggested any sort of punishment like this would be remotely reasonable (though you never know, not many details out there).

SLOZag
11-12-2012, 10:52 AM
IRegardless, I hope the punishments arent severe. They should issue a formal apology for Omar since no one likes him, but otherwise hopefully nothing happens.

It's wrong to post a wisecrack like that without first issuing a warning to those of us drinking coffee while we puruse the Board. You've ruined my sinuses and my shirt!

TheOtherGreatOne
11-12-2012, 11:08 AM
you can bet the ncaa will hammer st.marys. they have to try and draw attention away from the duke incident with lance thomas and the north carolina accidemic scandle. they are not going to do anything about either of those issues,so they have to find a way to divert attention away from the darling schools. st.marys could not have picked a worse time to get into trouble with the mighty ncaa.

FlyZag
11-12-2012, 11:10 AM
What is your avatar?

Philosoraptor! The ponderous reptile that asks deep existential questions.

Kiddwell
11-12-2012, 11:20 AM
Regardless, I hope the punishments arent severe. They should issue a formal apology for Omar since no one likes him, but otherwise hopefully nothing happens.

Take it easy on Omar. His "Sanhamwich Shop" franchises are now being traded on Nasdaq.

"More mustard, please!" :drool:


:]

Ezag
11-12-2012, 11:22 AM
How could you not miss this mug?

http://baylorguys.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/OmarSamhan01.jpg

zagitup
11-12-2012, 11:32 AM
Philosoraptor! The ponderous reptile that asks deep existential questions.

This deserves rep.....

:roll:

GoGU
11-12-2012, 11:43 AM
http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/oh-my-god-who-the-hell-cares.jpg

We still lost the games. It wouldn't feel legitimate to me and I'm sure Coach Few would agree.

combatcorpsmangulaw
11-12-2012, 12:20 PM
I hope the reasoning by the NCAA isn't that one of the players on the Team was 11 years old and received a juice box after the game. I realize that violations have to be monitored and dealt with but some of the NCAA rationale for sanctions is absurd.

When universities have to have Compliance dept staffed w/ lawyers or quasi-lawyers to figure out what can and can't be done, something is amiss in the system.

Let the kids play basketball and let the bureaucrats focus on something other than nuances that the NCAA dubs as major offenses that really are trivial. One example, have Edi sit out 8 games while on GU's team when the so-called 'violation' occurred in the junior college WHICH IS OVERSEEN BY THE NCAA when Edi played there.

Let the young people play basketball and forget the nonsense that isn't necessary. Or, let's polygraph the entire booster section and every coach and player before every game -- if the NCAA wants to do it 'right', then let's get out the lie detectors.....

UberZagFan
11-12-2012, 12:32 PM
Uber is pretty sure that it's just vacated title, as others have posted, but Uber just wants to point out that [I]if[I] it was "awarded" to GU, that would be a horrible way to keep the streak alive--which is now dead. Ok, whatever. We play WVU tonight, correct?

MDABE80
11-12-2012, 12:37 PM
We got beat. Simple. Unless there was a reason to think one of the SMC players was illegal when they played us, we STILL got beat!

rijman
11-12-2012, 12:51 PM
Let the young people play basketball and forget the nonsense that isn't necessary. Or, let's polygraph the entire booster section and every coach and player before every game -- if the NCAA wants to do it 'right', then let's get out the lie detectors.....
Don't forget the players families.

This is one of my problems with college football, people outside the schools and teams are now affecting the outcomes. Reggie Bush's parents accept free rent and hold meetings in their own house with agents and for that a school vacates wins? (yes, there was more to it than that, but Reggie's stepdad made that all happen and when Reggie finally rebelled and went with his own agent, rather than one his stepdad was trying to go into business with to create a job for himself, did the whole issue come out from the jilted agents.) There are too many cases where outside influences are affecting college game outcomes rather than having the players, coaches and refs settle the outcome. In college football I almost feel as though at the end of every game instead of announcing the winner they should just announce the score without declaring a winner, which is subject to years of scrutiny on not just the players and coaches and ex coaches (Penn St), but the family members of all the participants. 5 years after the end of each game then an official winner is declared. College basketball is in the same boat with outside influences and family members receiving benefits. Is each school really accountable for every players family? Because if they are then the schools would need to perform periodic occupancy checks and financial audits, not just on parents but siblings, aunts & uncles, cousins, grand parents, girl friends and their families, etc. This is all getting out of hand.

primal23
11-12-2012, 12:53 PM
So got a link to where its shown the NCAA will come down hard on SMC?

jake
11-12-2012, 12:53 PM
Is this based on some inside info or rumors I'm missing? All I've seen is some articles mentioning there is an investigation. How do we have any idea what the outcome is going to be? A lot of people thought Oregon football was going to have major penalties imposed too and that never happened. I'm not saying the outcomes being discussed aren't possible, but what makes us think anything resembling a vacated title is even likely?

MDABE80
11-12-2012, 12:57 PM
BasketballZag knows things.

Bogozags
11-12-2012, 04:30 PM
Don't forget the players families.

This is one of my problems with college football, people outside the schools and teams are now affecting the outcomes. Reggie Bush's parents accept free rent and hold meetings in their own house with agents and for that a school vacates wins? (yes, there was more to it than that, but Reggie's stepdad made that all happen and when Reggie finally rebelled and went with his own agent, rather than one his stepdad was trying to go into business with to create a job for himself, did the whole issue come out from the jilted agents.) There are too many cases where outside influences are affecting college game outcomes rather than having the players, coaches and refs settle the outcome. In college football I almost feel as though at the end of every game instead of announcing the winner they should just announce the score without declaring a winner, which is subject to years of scrutiny on not just the players and coaches and ex coaches (Penn St), but the family members of all the participants. 5 years after the end of each game then an official winner is declared. College basketball is in the same boat with outside influences and family members receiving benefits. Is each school really accountable for every players family? Because if they are then the schools would need to perform periodic occupancy checks and financial audits, not just on parents but siblings, aunts & uncles, cousins, grand parents, girl friends and their families, etc. This is all getting out of hand.

Agree it sure has gotten out of hand...IMO the NCAA has also lost control...money sure has corrupted the system...

It is too bad that the NCAA or USC can't go after Bush and his family and take away his ill-gotten gains...

Student athletes can truly hide things from their universities' athletic departments until much later and then the NCAA goes after the school. I would be willing to bet that Newton might have something in his closet as well...

Gonzdb8
11-12-2012, 04:46 PM
It is clear the NCAA will impose significant sanctions against the St. Mary's basketball program for illegal recruiting violations. There are rumors at this point that part of the sanctions will include the loss of all games St. Mary won last year. If this is true then would Gonzaga's conference win streak still be in tact?


huh? where are you reading this? a link or it didn't happen.

kclubfounder
11-12-2012, 04:51 PM
I hope they are cleared of all wrong-doing.

It would not only be a black mark on SMC, it would be a black mark on the conference.

I believe we are better off with a strong SMC. We are better off with a strong BYU. We are better off with conference brethren that have the respect of the BB nation.

If SMC gets slammed by the NCAA it is NOT a good thing for the WCC, and so it is NOT a good thing for GU.

UberZagFan
11-12-2012, 05:52 PM
I hope they are cleared of all wrong-doing.

It would not only be a black mark on SMC, it would be a black mark on the conference.

I believe we are better off with a strong SMC. We are better off with a strong BYU. We are better off with conference brethren that have the respect of the BB nation.

If SMC gets slammed by the NCAA it is NOT a good thing for the WCC, and so it is NOT a good thing for GU.

Agreed. 100%.

DixieZag
11-12-2012, 06:53 PM
BasketballZag knows things.

Yeah, well, I know things too - - not about Basketball or sanctions, but "stuff" ya know?

But, when I know things that matter to other people, I usually SAY where I am getting that information to avoid the garbage in garbage out problem. I have a big garbage problem.

Maybe BasketballZag is the official NCAA investigator of the SMC situation, but even so, he shouldn't be starting a dire thread like this unless he is ready to state why he "knows" this - - otherwise, it just gets everyone all in dithers, about possibly nothing.

And, not that it matters, but I hope they are cleared of everything. I love beating them as much as anyone (more!) - - but I don't hate them, not like I hate the UW (who is investigating them, btw???, ain't no way the "dub" is cleaner than SMC) - - I at least respect SMC, I hope they are cleared.

kclubfounder
11-12-2012, 07:55 PM
Agreed. 100%.

Dude, your avatar is very distracting.

What did you say?

ZagsGoZags
11-12-2012, 11:11 PM
I just hope for justice
if they cheated big time, let the sanctions roll
if they didn't, no sanctions is right
it they cheated a little, a slap on the wrist

I'd rather see justice done than worry about how it comes down for GU
same for accused doping athletes

GrizZAG
11-13-2012, 06:05 AM
Just read the blog: "Godisagael" and you will see from their own that something big is going down. That is where I saw it some time back.
Doesn't sound good and it is a shame. St. Mary's makes us better and I respect Bennet.

ridgebackzag
11-13-2012, 11:06 AM
All reports we've read, heresay or not, were related to recruiting violations. If those violations helped SMC land recruits that in turn helped them beat us, why is it bad juju to want the W/L reversed? I understand it's a domino effect and that's why they just null the W.

footsteps
11-14-2012, 09:16 PM
All reports we've read, heresay or not, were related to recruiting violations. If those violations helped SMC land recruits that in turn helped them beat us, why is it bad juju to want the W/L reversed? I understand it's a domino effect and that's why they just null the W.


What recruits?? McConnell the highly sought after 5'9 one star HS recruit? The 350 pound Samhan who had no other scholarship offers? Or Dellavedova who they somehow convinced to attend SMC over his lone other offer from University of Pacific? Even Patty Mills had few other options - he intended to sing with Utah but the scholarship offer was pulled at the last minute. Outside of Mills, SMC simply had no reason to intentionally commit recruiting violations because they get recruits who are nobodies. For them to have to vacate wins, they would of had to pull some O.J. Mayo or Reggie Bush type scandal. There would be no point or purpose of taking such a risk. Minor, unintentional violations and a slap on the wrist seem much more likely.

sittingon50
11-14-2012, 09:45 PM
I've forgotten the details footsteps, but it apparently has to do with the former Australian Asst. & his pipeline down under. He subsequently moved to the NBA & got in trouble there.

Don't think anyone believes Randy did anything wrong.

footsteps
11-14-2012, 09:57 PM
I can see violations occurring from the pipeline, I just doubt they would be so severe that wins would be vacated. I don't like the idea of receiving those wins even if we could. Would rather win on the court through some technicality.

Angelo Roncalli
11-14-2012, 10:26 PM
Sometimes it's not the initial violation(s) that result in the hammer coming down, it's what the school does in response . . . ask Ohio State.

bigblahla
11-15-2012, 03:39 AM
Why did GU quit recruiting Austrailia?

Go!! Zags!!!

sullyzag66
11-15-2012, 07:18 AM
Why did GU quit recruiting Austrailia?

Go!! Zags!!!
Tainted?

zagzilla
11-15-2012, 07:20 AM
Hope it turns out to be nothing.

Programs that deal with lots of international recruits are always going to have to be more careful given the differences between the player development infrastructures overseas vs. USA. NCAA rules are made with lots of assumptions about recruits coming up through typical high school & AAU circuit JUCO pipelines vs. clubs and semi pro leagues you see elsewhere. Easy to get on the wrong side of the rules with good intentions. Ask Guy Landry Edi.

If they did something seriously wrong, let the chips fall where they may but I don't want any tainted wins given to GU in the very unlikely event they have to vacate anything. I'll bet Few and Co. feel the same way.

FWIW: Here are the D1 programs with recent sanctions/investigations in MBB I found in a quick web search. SMC barely registers

U Central Florida
UConn
Baylor
Texas Southern
N Carolina-investigations only so far but sounds bad
SW Baptist University
Marquette
Indiana just this week had 2 players suspended as well for improper gifts
Syracuse for ignoring positive drug tests!

At least the Gaels are in good company :-)

Go Zags

ZZ

willandi
11-15-2012, 08:15 AM
Why did GU quit recruiting Austrailia?

Go!! Zags!!!

Where would you rather spend your spring/summer? In Europe, with the trees in bloom, love in the air (with your wife, of course), or in Australia during their winter? Most of the big cities are in the south, so get to take advantage of the cooler weather.

xjzico
11-15-2012, 10:07 AM
Hope it turns out to be nothing.

Programs that deal with lots of international recruits are always going to have to be more careful given the differences between the player development infrastructures overseas vs. USA. NCAA rules are made with lots of assumptions about recruits coming up through typical high school & AAU circuit JUCO pipelines vs. clubs and semi pro leagues you see elsewhere. Easy to get on the wrong side of the rules with good intentions. Ask Guy Landry Edi.

If they did something seriously wrong, let the chips fall where they may but I don't want any tainted wins given to GU in the very unlikely event they have to vacate anything. I'll bet Few and Co. feel the same way.

FWIW: Here are the D1 programs with recent sanctions/investigations in MBB I found in a quick web search. SMC barely registers

U Central Florida
UConn
Baylor
Texas Southern
N Carolina-investigations only so far but sounds bad
SW Baptist University
Marquette
Indiana just this week had 2 players suspended as well for improper gifts
Syracuse for ignoring positive drug tests!

At least the Gaels are in good company :-)

Go Zags

ZZ
Lest we forget Gonzaga had its own brush with the NCAA leading to a few years of probation and the resignation of the AD, a popular former head BB coach.

IMO there should be no satisfaction from this.

zagzilla
11-15-2012, 11:40 AM
True enough and it was over some chickensh*t technicalities well back before 1997.

No pay to play boosters, academic fraud etc... A few dollars in the wrong place and "no evidence those funds were used for NCAA prohibited activities involvring recruiting student athletes or to give the university a competitive edge." per the NCAA report

Still cost a good man his career and reputation.

That's part of the reason I am not going bash SMC without any concrete facts.

RIP Fitz

ZZ

primal23
11-16-2012, 08:38 AM
True enough and it was over some chickensh*t technicalities well back before 1997.

No pay to play boosters, academic fraud etc... A few dollars in the wrong place and "no evidence those funds were used for NCAA prohibited activities involvring recruiting student athletes or to give the university a competitive edge." per the NCAA report

Still cost a good man his career and reputation.

That's part of the reason I am not going bash SMC without any concrete facts.

RIP Fitz

ZZ

I agree, without something all can see, just some kind of hearsay doesn't do much for me. Hope SMC is clean.