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cjm720
10-28-2012, 07:17 AM
First team execution was awful.

It wasn't until we got a couple easy buckets and starting running before we clicked. That's no going to cut it against better opponents. We have to throw the first punch. I didn't see much chemistry until Stocks got on the floor and to be honest that's a bit concerning.

Edi looked great. Elias needs to be more aggressive.

At the ten minute mark in the second half we went from having three good centers to one freshman center...Shrek is unbelievable! His first half high low pass was a thing of beauty. His overall feel and touch indicates an advanced player for his years.

Draginis needs to be on the floor; sorry Hart and I'd say Stocks too but looks like Coach will continue to go with him because of trust. Not a fan of that honestly.

All and all, a bit worried about our toughness and execution.

BobZag
10-28-2012, 09:06 AM
I guess so. Thought they did fine for first game exhibition. A rough start and got better as time passed. :starwars:

GZag
10-28-2012, 09:22 AM
I agree with Bob. Slow start. Which is probably a lucky thing for NWN. Otherwise, we would have had 130 points. It is pretty clear that NWN only had 7 points during that slow time. It started off looking like a PAC 10 grinder.

DixieZag
10-28-2012, 09:29 AM
I just have a hard time blaming anyone out there for being a little complacent. The last game the starters played was the second round of the NCAAs and almost upsetting big bad Ohio State. It seems like the subs who are battling for playing time were definitely playing with total effort -with reason.

I think that our super secret "we could tell you but then we'd have to kill you" practice game against Texas will bring out a better effort b/c our starters will want to know how they match up against good D1 competition and hopefully by the start of the season they will be running on all cylinders, it would be hard NOT to be pumped up for some of those early big home games.

BTW - the starters weren't the only ones a little "off" their game last night, in all honesty, I spent much more time watching ND v. OU than the GU game and I LIVE for GU BB.

CDC84
10-28-2012, 09:55 AM
I don't like Dower and Harris playing together. Doesn't work for me at either end. Sam needs to have one of the 7 footers paired with him.

Harris is not near 100% health wise. He only recently started practicing again.

GZag
10-28-2012, 10:17 AM
I don't like Dower and Harris playing together. Doesn't work for me at either end.

Sam needs to have one of the 7 footers paired with him.

I have not seen KO play for two years. Can he be that man? I worry about relying on KO in the spring, but I don't know what he did.

Was that the plan with Harris at the 3? I saw some get-e-up in Harris's drive from the top of they key. This team is looking deeper all the time.

Sam played great D though

roxdoc
10-28-2012, 10:27 AM
First game of season and an exhibition at that. Everybody trying to get their sea legs. Second set for the first team they really got it going - 19 points in a row. Everybody will have their personal challenges, including the coaches, but things are going to be just fine. Too early for nit pic concerns - sit back and enjoy the growth and success to come.

JPtheBeasta
10-28-2012, 10:45 AM
I don't like Dower and Harris playing together. Doesn't work for me at either end. Sam needs to have one of the 7 footers paired with him.

Harris is not near 100% health wise. He only recently started practicing again.

+1

I like Dranginis' game a lot. He went to his left a couple of times and his 3/4 court outlet pass was a thing of beauty. A 3 guard line up on occasion seems very doable at this point.

Coptrdr
10-28-2012, 11:27 AM
I liked PK in this game, was good to see his off ball movement as well as his soft hands. Kid is strong too! Drag also impressed me, has a great move to the bucket and I would like to see more of him.
One thing that appears to be overlooked by some is the play of Mike Hart. Yes this was an exhibition but in 16 minutes he put up 10 pts and pulled down 9 rebounds, 7 of which were offensive. Yes..that is correct, 7 offensive boards. Only two played less minutes and his production was better than anyone on the floor.
As I said, I like the big guy and seeing the redshirts play and I'm dying to see KO, but obviously the nondescript Hart is one of those that does things without alot of fanfare. I may get alot of flak but I think he deserves a spot at tipoff.

Baldwinzag
10-28-2012, 11:34 AM
+1

I like Dranginis' game a lot. He went to his left a couple of times and his 3/4 court outlet pass was a thing of beauty. A 3 guard line up on occasion seems very doable at this point.

I concur and agree completely, except for the fact our primary 3-guard lineup/attack consists of Pangos, Gary Bell, & Stockton. Coach Few made it apparent in the 2nd half this is his preferred back-court when teams speed it up, spread it out, or go small. I'm fine with this, yet I with you on Dranginis' innate feel for the game, his length, height, and sweet looking stroke. It may change, but our 3-guard attack is those former 3, for now...

Baldwinzag
10-28-2012, 11:39 AM
I don't like Dower and Harris playing together. Doesn't work for me at either end. Sam needs to have one of the 7 footers paired with him.

Harris is not near 100% health wise. He only recently started practicing again.

Couldn't agree more...

We need to accommodate Dower's obvious and consistent shortcomings on defense...he'll always be a stud on offense, is dynamic, long, and can put the ball in the hoop, but he's lost on defense and his #1 weakness was exposed even vs NW Nazarene. His body looks stronger, he gives good effort, and love his upside in all areas, but Sam will be our 6th man off the bench until it improves...its just a matter of time before the space-eating, skyscraper in Karnowski overtakes him underneath or when Olynyk returns, who hustles his butt off underneath(although lacked quickness prior to RS season).

I love Sam, have propped him for many years and cont. to do so, yet until he rounds out his game and it may take all 4 years, I don't see him as starting Center material, not yet. Major minutes, big-time rotational post guy, yes, but just too much of a liability on ball screens, one-on-one match ups -- although, seems OK in zone scenarios.

JPtheBeasta
10-28-2012, 12:04 PM
I concur and agree completely, except for the fact our primary 3-guard lineup/attack consists of Pangos, Gary Bell, & Stockton. Coach Few made it apparent in the 2nd half this is his preferred back-court when teams speed it up, spread it out, or go small. I'm fine with this, yet I with you on Dranginis' innate feel for the game, his length, height, and sweet looking stroke. It may change, but our 3-guard attack is those former 3, for now...

Very true. That seemed to be the case last year, too. I was hoping it was out of necessity. I thought we sacrificed some on the defensive end with that lineup. I just really like the extra length Dragon provides. In Few I Trust, though. At the very least, it looks like we have an upgrade from 2nd-Year-Carter for that 4th guard spot.

DADoZAG
10-28-2012, 02:12 PM
I guess so. Thought they did fine for first game exhibition. A rough start and got better as time passed. :starwars:

Yeah.

Obviously itís early, but a couple of pretty nice stretches on both ends of the court.

Game legs will come.

Karn was pretty much as expected, I have the sunglasses ready for late year or maybe next year.

Expectations exceeded by the D on both platoons, except when it was ugly of course.

Knock Down was one three point shot and a missed defensive assignment or two away from stardom (but is that a flare with the left hand?).

Not exactly in the same way, but Gary Bell Jr. brings as much to this team as Steven Gray did as a SENIOR (No put down to Steven in any way shape or form, GB2 is a special talent).

REALLY SUCKS ABOUT KO, makes the K2 version of WVU tighter, delays being ready for the Old Spice, but approve of closing the thread Ďcause Student Life happens.

Harris looked really good all things considered, and hopefully the refs are that generous on walking all year.

Guy must be working hard on slowing the game on the offensive end, and it showed well, except when it didnít of course.

Pangosí jumper is a work in progress, hope itís not too distractive for him, but he does need a pull up from the elbows as does KD.

Just as, if not even more, GIDDY.

Go ZAGS!

ZagaZags
10-28-2012, 04:24 PM
Why did GC not play? I know he has to sit out 1 year but this game does not count.

ID ZAGFAN
10-28-2012, 04:51 PM
Why did GC not play? I know he has to sit out 1 year but this game does not count.

He told me at K in the K autograph session that he wouldn't be able to play until next fall.

I think that redshirts like Kyle and Kelly have played in the exhibition game, but not transfer redshirts.

ZaGranny

ZagaZags
10-28-2012, 06:02 PM
He told me at K in the K autograph session that he wouldn't be able to play until next fall.

I think that redshirts like Kyle and Kelly have played in the exhibition game, but not transfer redshirts.

ZaGranny

Good news is, he will be able to play vs Texas. Bad news is we don't get to see it.

ZagaZags
10-28-2012, 06:06 PM
TY ID ZAGFAN = )
Can GC play in the secret scrimmage next week?

KStyles
10-28-2012, 06:13 PM
TY ID ZAGFAN = )
Can GC play in the secret scrimmage next week?

Short answer, no.

If you're really curious, these are the relevant NCAA rules, which can be found in the NCAA D-I Manual (http://www.ncaapublications.com/DownloadPublication.aspx?download=D113.pdf).

Yesterday's game, as well as the UT scrimmage, counts as intercollegiate competition (NCAA 14.02.7), which a four-year college transfer cannot participate in until that player completes his/her one academic year-in-residence at the new school (NCAA 14.5.5.1).

It's a bit different than, say, Kyle D. playing in last year's exhibition (and presumably scrimmage), because in a player's first year at a school (Kyle was a freshman), he is allowed to participate in just the preseason exhibitions & scrimmages without using a year of eligibility (NCAA 14.2.3.1.3).

The second rule doesn't apply to Gerard because he's already prohibited from participating in intercollegiate competition as a four-year transfer.

ZagaZags
10-28-2012, 09:29 PM
I can't wait to see this guy next season. Most people say he was King of kraziness in the kennel. Wish i could have seen him. Perfect timing with this being GLE's last season. Next season will have an awesome team as well.
2013-2014
PG Pangos
SG Bell
SF Coleman
PF Dower/Olynyk
C Dower/Karnowski

BULLDOG#1
10-29-2012, 07:22 AM
I think the starting unit did fine. rough start, but came back strong. They really pushed the tempo, which Few must have stressed. It is really hard to tell against a D2 team and when Bell and Harris are banged up.

The question I have with the first unit is Dower. Looks lost. He defense was terrible. He's playing stiff and slow... even on offense, he doesn't seem to have the fluidity that we've seen in the past.

I cringe at the thought of him guarding a quality big.

One observation: our best rebounders are Hart and Edi. I sure hope Dower and Harris come alive on the glass.

TacomaZAG
10-29-2012, 08:36 AM
to be talking about lineups, etc. (official games haven't even started yet), but since the seal has been broken on this year's ZAGS, here goes.

Heister and the guys mentioned the GU big six (Karno, KO, Sam, Elias, KP, and GBJ) as being locks for major minutes. I agree...... IMHO, that leaves Stocks, GLE, Hart, and Draino in the 7-10 slots.

The big six doesn't contain a true 3, although Elias and even KO have been talked about in that spot for a long time (mostly for short stints or in special matchup situations). IMHO, both KP and GBJ need to be on the floor for 32+ minutes a game for the ZAGS to be at their best, so where does that leave the rotation???

For me, since 4 of the 5 starting spots are locked in (Sam, Elias, KP, GBJ) the rotation should be cut down to 7-8 guys ASAP for floor chemistry and familiarity. That means very little playing time for Stocks and Draino (3-5 minutes per game each to spell KP and GBJ, with KP and Stocks NEVER on the floor together at the same time (similar skill set, similar weaknesses). If a 3-guard lineup is ever used, it should be KP, GBJ, and Draino, as Draino could guard a bigger man due to his size and brings much more scoring punch than Stocks.

The 3 is a more difficult challenge for me. Both GLE and Hart bring things to the floor, and both could be/have been effective in limited roles and for specific matchups. Elias and/or KO at the 3 is an ongoing experiment (some would say a failed one from years past), but this is a new year and a new team. Too bad KO will remain an unknown commodity for a few more weeks.

There is very little still to be learned about the guys in practice, as all who will be battling for minutes (except Karno) have been in the program for at least a year.

For me, start Karno, Dower, Elias, KP, and GBJ. Add KO to the big rotation to keep each guy fresh, with Stocks, Draino, GLE, and Hart in limited/speciality roles. It's so early, but never too early for conjecture and speculation. Karno needs a lot of minutes early on to get hsi feet wet and adjust to the speed of the D1 game. It will be fun to see how it all plays out...........

I'm excited to hear Dr. Krause's take on all this Thursday night.

Go ZAGS

rennis
10-29-2012, 08:52 AM
I still think we are going to see a lot of PT @ the 3 spot by GLE and Hart. GLE by all accounts SHOULD start at the 3 given his size and skillset. No doubt Few will tinker endlessly with the starting lineup in the first 6 weeks, but my "wishlist" starting 5 would be

KP
GB
GLE
EH
PK/KO

I just don't see EH (or anyone else in the "BIG" category) getting much time at the 3 position.

zag944
10-29-2012, 08:54 AM
Heister and the guys mentioned the GU big six (Karno, KO, Sam, Elias, KP, and GBJ) as being locks for major minutes. I agree...... IMHO, that leaves Stocks, GLE, Hart, and Draino in the 7-10 slots.

The big six doesn't contain a true 3, although Elias and even KO have been talked about in that spot for a long time (mostly for short stints or in special matchup situations). IMHO, both KP and GBJ need to be on the floor for 32+ minutes a game for the ZAGS to be at their best, so where does that leave the rotation???



It has sounded like KO and Edi are the people that have shown the most significant improvement. Edi looked really good in the NWN game too. I think he will see more minutes than at least one player in Heister's big six (likely one or more of the bigs that isnt Harris).

Mr Vulture
10-29-2012, 02:58 PM
Regardless of what Heister has to say, I don't think the Edi is removed from the starting lineup when Olynyk returns. I also don't think he plays much less than Harris, Dower, Olynyk, or Karnowski. In fact, my thinking is that he plays more than Karnowski does. It really isn't about overall talent level or ceiling, it's about positions and matchups. To me, Edi is a very good defender/slasher that compliments the starting lineup well.

From what I saw, I don't think that Karnowski would be able to play more than 20 minutes a game on average from a conditioning and foul standpoint. With that said, I think he is going to get better and better as the season progresses. I was very surprised to see that he wasn't your typical college 7' center as he is much more athletic and instinctual than most. He is going to be a star, as many have predicted, I just don't think it will be consistently this year.

I think you will see Pangos/Bell/Harris playing 30+ minutes a game. I think that Dower/Edi/Olynyk/Karnowski will be in the 20-25 minute range. After those 7 guys it will vary depending on the situation, matchups, needs, and how a player is going IMO. Some games Stockton will play alot, some he may barely see the floor. Same goes for Draginis, Barham, and Hart. That isn't taking anything away from their ability...its just a matter of depth and what is needed.

MississppiZag
10-29-2012, 03:23 PM
One observation: our best rebounders are Hart and Edi. I sure hope Dower and Harris come alive on the glass.

Harris avg 8.5 Rebs last yr. He's the best rebounder, IMO. Dower definitely needs to get better, though.

MickMick
10-29-2012, 05:14 PM
Bell, Pangos, Edi, Harris, and Dower will likely be the early season starting five with Karnowski or Olynyk pushing hard for a starting spot.

Hart, Dranginis, and Stockton will also see the floor often.

We saw "platooning" of five players at a time in the exhibition. Few can actually afford to do this. He will stress "up tempo" and will likely platoon more than we have ever seen in the past. With Pangos and Stockton both very capable of pushing the ball up court, you will see the Zags run more than you ever have.

I also expect to see more full court press than ever. Few is going to use his depth to wear teams down. SMC and Dellavedova will try to slow the GU pace down and they might succeed. If BYU tries to run with GU, they will get blown off the court. Carlino will not dictate tempo.

Zags run 11 deep (with Barham) and the second platoon isn't a major drop off. Few wants both teams gasping for air because he like his bench.

SteelZag
10-29-2012, 06:21 PM
I too would like to see the Zags run other teams off the court. If Coach Few decides to go 10-11 deep I have no problem with a 3-guard lineup as long as Dranginis is the third guard to give the back court some hieght.

If Few decides to tighten up the rotation to 8 players I would have to go with KP, Bell and Harris getting 30 minutes each and KD, KO, PK, Dower and GLE fighting it out for the rest of the minutes. Of course, that would put either Dranginis or Bell at the point which I believe can be done.

On the other hand I believe both Stockton and Hart can contribute so I guess I'm glad I don't have to make the choices like Coach Few. Experiment a little and see which groups mesh and go from there.

007Zag
11-01-2012, 03:46 PM
The observation that jumps out at me is how much I hate the gap between the exhibition game and the start of the season. I always forget how tough it is to be teased with Gonzaga basketball, only to have it taken back for a couple weeks. 8 days!

Zagdawg
11-01-2012, 03:58 PM
They fit in the Texas game in Denver during the off time. See what they can work on and improve before they step into ring against another team.

It is not as nice on the fans-- but it helps the team out a great deal from what I understand.

zag67
11-01-2012, 05:25 PM
I think that the starters will be:
Pangos
Bell
EDI
Harris
KO

2nd platoon:
Stockton
Dranginis
Hart/Barham
Dower
PK

Now I think that if these guys play as Few is hoping, then the first set will be averaging 25 and the second unit about 15. They will be playing at full speed, knowing that the other group will be in if they get tired. I do not see many teams that these groups cannot run the other team off the floor. This keeps your team chemistry at a high since everyone is playing major minutes. Now, if the game is close after the first 10 minutes of the second half, then you will not see a total second unit come in, but subbing like you normally would be doing.

Against the "super" teams, that you may cut down your rotation, I still think that everyone will see some action during the first half. Then the second half would have a reduced set of subs and their minutes dictated by matchups and how they looked in the first half.. They also would be playing depending on what they have shown in practice.