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GUZagDenver
10-18-2012, 07:09 AM
C - Karnowski
F- Olynyk
F/G - Harris
SG - Bell
PG - Pangos


Just thinking about some of the flexibility and depth that Few could have this year. Not sure if this would ever happen, but man, I think this would be a cool 5 to have on the floor at the same time. Front line of 7'1, 7'0, and 6'8 (all who can run the floor pretty well) and two guards that can handle the ball, knife you from deep, and take you to the hole. Not many teams in the country that could match up with this 5....

Obviously this is contingent on a lot of things: i.e. Harris comfortable/playing well at the 3, Olynyk being able to defend the post, and PK getting playing time and being all we think he is going to be.

sittingon50
10-18-2012, 07:26 AM
5-Karno
4-KO
3-E
2-Barham
1-Draino

That's the largest lineup Zags can put on the floor with guys (IMHO) that are legitimate at those spots. Absolute matchup nightmare on offense. Don't worry about lack of quickness on D. Zone.

BigAppleZag
10-18-2012, 08:10 AM
I have never understood why people suggest Harris play the three. I say this for several reasons:

1) his natural inclination is to play as an undersized 4 (ie in the mold of a carl landry like player). Earlier experiments with Harris at the 3 have shown he is not this kind of player. In his sophomore campaign, I remember several times where harris would start a drive far out from the three point line-defenses had time to react, and they drew numerous charges.
2) As far as defense, if we were to face an opposing team with an athletic slashing 3, we would get burned. Harris is a more of a 4 defender, and lacks the speed to defend someone who starts at the 3 point line and drives in (I don't get the counter argument that this athletic 3 would have to defend harris's post up game. If you already have a 4 and a 5 in there, adding another post up player only clogs the interior. Post players work well with space.)
3) We have numerous players who are more natural at the 3. Barnham, GLE, Dranginis (although a bit undersized), Hart.

If I could pick a lineup, I'd go with this

1: Pangos
2: Bell
3: GLE (dranginis)
4: Harris (Dower)
5: PK (KO)

CDC84
10-18-2012, 08:50 AM
I don't see Elias being a fixture at the three, but he is going to have to play there at times to free up more time for the other three big men. If the defense suffers, so be it - it's a risk they have to take. I think the coaching staff realizes this. If the matchups aren't ideal, you'll see GLE out there or maybe someone else. But he is going to have to play there at times.

To not have Elias play some at the three would be to not have Gonzaga's most talented players consistently on the floor. You just can't do that. In all due respect to GLE, Hart and Dranginis, they are the weak link on a team - talent wise - that doesn't have any glaring weak links. I don't want guys like Olynyk or Dower to be riding the pine just so that Gonzaga can have a more conventional three man in the lineup at all times. The Zags have one of the absolute best frontcourts in the nation. To not fully utilize the full force of that talent would be a waste.

That being said, I am perfectly fine with Elias being this team's starting power forward. Doesn't mean he has to play there at all times.

dnj116
10-18-2012, 08:57 AM
Completely agree, CDC. Couldn't have said it better myself. Again, spot on post, as usual.

zag944
10-18-2012, 09:07 AM
I think that a big part of some people's desire to see Elias at the 3 is that it would likely be his position at the next level should he get drafted.

A lot of how much E (or Kelly) is at the 3 position probably depends on how good Draino and Karno are. The best players will play, and its just a matter of where the logjams are the thickest.

Colbyspapa
10-18-2012, 09:19 AM
Karnowski is a brand new player with no D1 experience entering a complicated offensive scheme. He may start by the end of the year, but there is no way he starts day 1 with the experience we have coming back.

Pangos
Bell
Harris
Dower
Kelly O

Only change may be
Pangos
Bell
GLE
Harris
Dower


Karnowski, Stockton, Draginis and Olynk will see a lot of minutes. Hart will see some minutes, but not every game. I don't see many more in the rotation. Maybe Barnham, but not much more. We have a lot of good experienced players now at every spot. Just don't see anyone but the big guy cracking into the rotation.

jim77
10-18-2012, 09:49 AM
I think this big front court may get David Stockton a few more minutes this year. Go back and watch the 2nd half against Ohio State. To me David is pretty proficient at feeding our bigs...probably more so than anybody else.

However, KP is and should be the starter. I would like to see KP kept fresh for the whole season.....and David would be right at home with our BIGS :).

gamagin
10-18-2012, 10:07 AM
who wants the ball ? Who follows whom and who leads ? The athletes are lined up like never before. But who is going to take charge when MF is NOT out there directing traffic ? I don't know. I do know you can't appoint a leader. Though many coaches have tried. A leader emerges.

I looked up the synonyms for leadership and think this contains a good sample of what is needed. So pick one or two or all and we can look for who develops or becomes the person who wears the hat. I haven't seen it on a regular basis for the past two years, at least.

• administration • authority • capacity • command • conduction • control •

conveyance • direction • directorship • domination • foresight • hegemony •

influence • initiative • management • pilotage • power • preeminence •

primacy • skill • superintendency • superiority • supremacy • sway • • administration • authority •

capacity • command • conduction • control • conveyance • direction • directorship • domination •

foresight • hegemony • influence • initiative • management • pilotage • power • preeminence •

primacy • skill • superintendency • superiority • supremacy • sway •

roxdoc
10-18-2012, 10:34 AM
I agree with most of what you say. However I would say Kelly O is a weaker link than GLE or Dranginis. GLE IMHO was better last year than KO was the year before, and now is being reported "most improved". I really, really hope that KO will have improved his game, but at this juncture the "new" KO is certainly as "unknown" as Dranginis.

In any event there are many permutations to consider as the coaches move the players like chess pieces. Only time will tell who the "weakest links" are.

Exciting times folks!

zag buddy
10-18-2012, 10:44 AM
Do you sit your best defensive guy-Mike Hart.

ZAGGED OUT
10-18-2012, 11:17 AM
Do you sit your best defensive guy-Mike Hart.

Yes, you do. Hands down. GLE is a very capable defender and has quickness to stay with almost any 3. Hart is too much of a liability on the other side of the court with the options we have. I see Hart getting his minutes like this: Opposing 3 is playing well and getting into a rhythm, sit whoever to put Hart there, telling him its ok to pick up 3 fouls in 4 minutes just rattle this guy and get him off his groove, then back to our starter.

zag944
10-18-2012, 11:43 AM
Do you sit your best defensive guy

Gary Bell will play 30+ a game

CDC84
10-18-2012, 11:57 AM
Kelly Olynyk has improved an awful lot during his redshirt year and has added a good deal of muscle weight. We'll see.

All I know is that you simply can't teach someone to be a 7 footer. If he is improved he simply has to play. Karnowski can't play 40 MPG, and Guy, even if Harris sees some time at three, is going to see a lot of time at the three as well. Dranginis can be GBJ's backup and see some spot duty at PG and SF.

I wouldn't play Mike Hart except for defensive emergencies. He's not the kind of guy who needs a lot of PT to stay sharp. He knows the system and provides no offense. They can just put him at any time and let him go.

What the team needs is for Guy to become a defensive force. There is no reason why he shouldn't defend better than Hart. None. He plays hard and is way more athletic.

SteelZag
10-18-2012, 12:05 PM
I couldn't agree more with ZAGGED OUT's post. I appreciate everything Mike Hart has given to GU BB but the Zags have offensively played 4 on 5 for too many of the past seasons.

The 2012-2013 squad would appear very gifted on offense and in my view the choices we have at the 3 in GLE and KD will be sufficient on defense given their offensive skills.

I feel that anytime the opposition tries to double-team anyone this year they will be paying a very high price. The bigs should have a field day. Turnovers have hurt tremendously in the past, trying to feed a double-teamed Sacre or any other post player. I'm hoping for far fewer TO's this season with most being caused by questionable charging fouls. With Pangos and GBJ having a season under their belt and the reported passing skills of both PK (not to mention his soft hands) and Dranginis, I see the Zags having one of the best passing teams in recent memory.

Starting Harris, Pangos and Bell pretty much seems to be a given. Who else starts will be determined by which groups mesh better together as Few has stated "They can all ball".

I'm thirsty right now and I'm going to fix myself a glass of Kool-aid. :D

GUZagDenver
10-18-2012, 12:13 PM
Never said anything about this being the starting line-up, because it shouldn't be. Just thinking that this would be a really cool/interesting line-up if it ever played out like this. Even it happened for 3 minutes. Just pretty rare to see a front line with size like that.

cjm720
10-18-2012, 12:18 PM
Karnowski is a brand new player with no D1 experience entering a complicated offensive scheme. He may start by the end of the year, but there is no way he starts day 1 with the experience we have coming back.

Pangos
Bell
Harris
Dower
Kelly O

Only change may be
Pangos
Bell
GLE
Harris
Dower


Karnowski, Stockton, Draginis and Olynk will see a lot of minutes. Hart will see some minutes, but not every game. I don't see many more in the rotation. Maybe Barnham, but not much more. We have a lot of good experienced players now at every spot. Just don't see anyone but the big guy cracking into the rotation.

This.

Maybe KO starts with Dower first in to lessen the burden on the center position (Dower's more of a PF IMO).

ValencyLovesZagsInAtlanta
10-18-2012, 03:29 PM
Hi,

We are like the Aston Martin One-77 sports car (Its hot). It could also be argued we are a hybrid because the Zags are part luxury muscle car with our front court! Woooohooooo!

I think all our interchangeable pieces will give us the horsepower to get to Atlanta! We just have to respect each opponent and realize in college hoops you live in the moment and everything is earned with hard work.

This year when we get in the Big Dance and get in a close game with 40.8 seconds to go and no timeouts up by 3 with the ball we will remain composed. Strong leadership helps when the refs make a terrible call putting your dreams in jeopardy. With 2.6 seconds to go there is no time for crying! They call it March Madness for a reason! Be tough! This year I love the idea of having a calm cool Steve Nash type player in KP on the floor with EH & possibly GLE.

Warmest
Val

2wiceright
10-19-2012, 12:47 AM
Hi,

This year when we get in the Big Dance and get in a close game with 40.8 seconds to go and no timeouts up by 3 with the ball we will remain composed. Strong leadership helps when the refs make a terrible call putting your dreams in jeopardy. With 2.6 seconds to go there is no time for crying! They call it March Madness for a reason! Be tough! This year I love the idea of having a calm cool Steve Nash type player in KP on the floor with EH & possibly GLE.

Warmest
Val

Well said Val....Couldn't agree more! :cheers:

tinfoilzag
10-19-2012, 12:33 PM
C - Karnowski
F- Olynyk
F/G - Harris
SG - Bell
PG - Pangos


Just thinking about some of the flexibility and depth that Few could have this year. Not sure if this would ever happen, but man, I think this would be a cool 5 to have on the floor at the same time. Front line of 7'1, 7'0, and 6'8 (all who can run the floor pretty well) and two guards that can handle the ball, knife you from deep, and take you to the hole. Not many teams in the country that could match up with this 5....

Obviously this is contingent on a lot of things: i.e. Harris comfortable/playing well at the 3, Olynyk being able to defend the post, and PK getting playing time and being all we think he is going to be.

I posted this on April 14th of this year and they all laughed!

http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?t=39885


Pangos
Bell
Harris
Dower
Karnowski

If you disagree, please explain how one of those guys will not be a starter. This will be (Maybe KO instead of Karn in the first few games) the starting lineup.

Not having 3 guards on the floor will drive Few crazy so I expect substitutions after the first few minutes.

Can Few do it? Can he stand only having two guards on the floor?!? The reason I posted this lineup and stand by it is becuase this gives us the best mix of scoring and defense. E needs to play the 3 for half of the game. Please Mark Few, Go Big!

I will probably go red-in-the-face angry this year everytime Few has KP and Stockon on the floor at the same time.

roxdoc
10-19-2012, 01:12 PM
Are GLE, Dranginis, and Hart now considered guards?

tinfoilzag
10-19-2012, 01:24 PM
Are GLE, Dranginis, and Hart now considered guards?

I'm not sure if you wanted your question answered but 2 of the 3 are considered guards.

3 Kyle Dranginis G 6-5 175 RFr.
10 Guy Landry Edi F 6-6 218 Sr.
30 Michael Hart G 6-6 206 RSr.

I would also consider GLE as a guard as I don't remember GU working him inside.

roxdoc
10-19-2012, 02:56 PM
Personally I am more comfortable with the descriptive system that labels "wings". Agree with Dranginis labeled as a G.

810Suited
10-19-2012, 03:26 PM
Few is going to have the most flexibility he's ever had.

He can as big as Pangos, KD, Elias, Dower, KP or as small as Stockton, Pangos, Bell, Guy/KD and Elias.

I think there will be times Elias is at the 3 or 5 but not very often.

Few is going to have a ton if tinkering to do. Don't understand people thinking of Kelly over Dower tho