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sittingon50
09-07-2012, 06:12 PM
I'm old. Can someone please explain why this country bothers with soccer?

I would prefer curling.

asoc
09-08-2012, 12:36 AM
I'm old. Can someone please explain why this country bothers with soccer?

I would prefer curling.

Don't watch it and don't ##### about it if you don't like it.

Thankfully people like you are a dieing breed. By people like you, I mean close minded ignorant individuals (within the sports landscape) who go out of their way to talk #### about a sport they don't care for.

Vancouver at Seattle earlier this year. Sounders will average 42k plus per game this regular season. That is more fans coming to watch the Sounders than attend Seahawks games. I also believe Sounders fans are on par with the seahawks when it comes to merchandise sales.
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/5459/vswhitecaps014.jpg

You should get to a Sounders or Timbers game sometime. You might enjoy it provided you don't mind standing and people around you actually making noise in support of their team.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9WxHJLqZc0

sittingon50
09-08-2012, 09:57 AM
I don't believe I ##### or ####, but thanks for your well measured response.

Close minded & ignorant? Why are you so dismissive of curling.

asoc
09-08-2012, 04:58 PM
I don't believe I ##### or ####, but thanks for your well measured response.

Close minded & ignorant? Why are you so dismissive of curling.

I actually like watching curling:-)

Thanks for the GREAT content in your OP. It is so enlightening.

If you don't want to get called out for being a ####ing jackass then don't be a jackass.

So why did you go out of your way to start this thread and post what you did in your op?

Keep your ignorant statements to yourself if you don't want to get called out. I say ignorant because you have no clue what you are talking about.

If you want to have an actual discussion about the game in your thread title I am more than willing to discuss it with you. But I get the feeling you didn't even watch it.

If you want to discuss the state of the sport in this Country I am more than willing to do that as well. But you are going to have to not start the conversation with condescending posts like you did in your OP.

sittingon50
09-08-2012, 07:56 PM
Well, though I am not as enlightened as you (obviously) I will attempt to clarify my "op."

With the amount of money & the amount of bodies that the U.S. has dedicated to soccer it seems to me that the effort/cost over the past 30+ years has failed to produce much in the way of tangible results.

I suppose to be more accurate, I should say that it appears to this untrained & "ignorant" eye that this is a U.S. Men problem & not a U.S. Women problem.

Thank you, in advance, for bringing the knowledge.

KStyles
09-08-2012, 08:43 PM
Sounders will average 42k plus per game this regular season. That is more fans coming to watch the Sounders than attend Seahawks games.

Considering they have 22 more (MLS) games, doesn't seem tough to do (taking total attendance). As far as per game, the Hawks average 66,000, far more than the Sounders.

asoc
09-08-2012, 10:02 PM
Considering they have 22 more (MLS) games, doesn't seem tough to do (taking total attendance). As far as per game, the Hawks average 66,000, far more than the Sounders.
Understood. But 42k average actually puts the Sounders among the best attended teams in the world.

And 17 regular season home games is only roughly twice as many home games as the hawks play in the regular season.

And the Sounders outdrew the Mariners each time they have both had home games at the same time.

I am not saying the Sounders are more popular than the Seahawks, or the Mariners. But they are on the same level as those teams when it comes to the level of fan support within the greater Seattle area.


Well, though I am not as enlightened as you (obviously) I will attempt to clarify my "op."

With the amount of money & the amount of bodies that the U.S. has dedicated to soccer it seems to me that the effort/cost over the past 30+ years has failed to produce much in the way of tangible results.

I suppose to be more accurate, I should say that it appears to this untrained & "ignorant" eye that this is a U.S. Men problem & not a U.S. Women problem.

Thank you, in advance, for bringing the knowledge.

The amount of bodies and money that the US has dedicated to the sport is still behind the top Countries. I think that is reflected in our level of play actually. Our National team is right around the level of the Mexican team. But Mexico has better players across the board from top to bottom. They have a better professional league as well. They have just been doing it longer and better and spending more money than us on it.

There is also the larger cultural issue. As a culture we don't have the knowledge and experience in Soccer that is needed.

Specifically regarding experience, you can read in Soccernomics about the effect "experience" has for National teams. It is a very real and measurable effect.

You can read a pretty good article/essay about youth development in the US http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/soccer/09/07/development-academies-high-school/index.html

Basically, youth development in the US has sucked for years and only in the past 10 years have things really started to change on that front.

Sure, we have hordes of kids out there playing the game, but the knowledge of the game of the coaches and their parents isn't that great. Get to high school and the coaching is mostly terrible. Also add in that Soccer was hard to watch on tv just 10 years ago. So its hard for these Soccer players to watch professionals and learn from immersing themselves and observing the game played at the highest levels.

Then the College rules are all F'd up. They play a short season with their games crammed into a short time period as well as playing by non standard rules. They should be playing by the rules set out by the IFAB. What this all comes out to is that the College system is no that great for developing players. It could be a great system if there was some major reform. Don't get me wrong, there are some good programs and coaches in the College ranks. But there are serious problems there.

MLS's mandate for every team to create youth academies and push for increased youth development has been a huge step forward. But that is only a recent development.

And MLS and its teams haven't had the money to do that until just recently.

And to tie this back to your last statement regarding the Women's team.

Title IX was great for Women's Soccer. It gave us a huge leg up in Women's Soccer.

But lets make no mistake. The Women's game wasn't that developed back then either. Women were frowned upon from playing Soccer in Countries around the world. And now that you see that stigma lifted you see the rest of the world catching up.

Hope Solo is right about saying how the level of play has increased since the time Chastain has played. It has evolved and become much more competitive.

And there really aren't that many leagues for Women to play in at a high level. The professional leagues that keep popping up in the US keep failing and the women's leagues elsewhere are funded largely by the Men's leagues. Similar to the WNBA being propped up by the NBA.

MLS wasn't and really still isn't at a point where they can do that for the Women's game here in the US. Throw into the mix the arrogance of many in that golden generation of US women's Soccer and how they talked trash about MLS and how it was beneath them. But look what league is still standing and now doing well and growing year after year.

You really can't compare Men's Soccer and Women's Soccer. We actually support Women's Soccer at a high level compared to the rest of the world. We don't do that for Men's Soccer though.

But that is slowly changing.

And the result against Jamaica, while it is a poor result, the US has NEVER beat Jamaica in Jamaica. I think the US played like crap and we SHOULD HAVE won. But there were factors that played a part in how we played. Klinsman's tactics and starting lineup, some key players being injured(Donovan and Bradley), the heat and humidity and the quality of the field. I think we still should have won considering all those factors. But sometimes you have a bad day and lose. It happens and that was only the first game of World Cup Qualifying. We have a long road ahead and its not like the rest of CONCACAF is sitting still as we try to get better. There are bound to be some bumps along the way. Spain's Olympic team didn't even make it out of the group stage losing to Honduras and Japan.

And the US has steadily been improving.

Where the improvement needs to start at is with the youth. From our kids rec leagues on up. And that is something that just takes time. The sport has reached a tipping point already where it isn't going anywhere and will only continue to grow in popularity. Nothing will stop it now.

And as each generation of Soccer lovers starts having their own kids they will spread their knowledge on to their kids who will take that, learn more, and then pass it on.

And we have made huge strides in the past 30 years.

If you want an interesting read regarding the issues you bring up. Read Soccernomics. It talks about what factors go into determining how successful National Teams are.

KStyles
09-08-2012, 10:17 PM
Understood. But 42k average actually puts the Sounders among the best attended teams in the world.

And 17 regular season home games is only roughly twice as many home games as the hawks play in the regular season.

And the Sounders outdrew the Mariners each time they have both had home games at the same time.

I am not saying the Sounders are more popular than the Seahawks, or the Mariners. But they are on the same level as those teams when it comes to the level of fan support within the greater Seattle area.

Totally agree, while they both have great support, I was just outlining the fact that while both teams fill the stands at 99-100%, the Hawks average more fans (more people go to see the Hawks than the Sounders, per game).

BobZag
09-09-2012, 10:58 AM
The NFL is an American game. Invented in America and dwarfs baseball, basketball, everything. Marquee soccer games sellout large stadiums but it isn't an American sport like NFL. Curling, pickleball, cricket, lacrosse, well, that's just being facetious and I am that way at times, too.

USA played very poorly. Jamaica played great and beat the USA for the first time in their history. Jamaican fans poured onto the field like a court storming. Good for them. They have athletes there, and not just sprinters. Other small countries (some islands) have very good teams, ie, Costa Rica, Honduras, Panama... England, Wales, Ireland, Scotland, all tiny countries, are very good.

USA has a chance at payback Tuesday in Ohio vs Jamaica. I think we grab 3 points in that one.

The USA always wants to be the best, or among the best, in all things. That is this country's nature. From the Space Race to the moon to sports, we strive to be first. No different in soccer. It's a long journey. Countries like Brazil live and breathe soccer. It'll be very hard but I don't see USA giving up.

sittingon50
09-09-2012, 09:33 PM
Thanks for the response, asoc. Very informative & no name-calling.

Appreciated.

asoc
09-09-2012, 11:31 PM
A couple weekends ago I was visiting my family back in Spokane.

Was just sitting around watching tv and the HBO documentary came up on George H.W. Bush.

He was the captain of Harvard's Soccer team.

Other interesting facts.

The ball originally used to play basketball was a Soccer ball.

The ball that was used in what is historically cited as the first American Football game is/was in the US Soccer hall of fame. I say was because I believe it closed and its contents moved elsewhere.

If you want to read a good book about the history of the sport in the US, read Soccer in a Football World.
http://books.google.com/books?id=1mK2xw1E6dAC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

Seriously, just begin reading whats there in that link. Pretty interesting if you are interested in the history of sports in this Country.