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GonzaGAW
09-04-2012, 03:53 PM
first post, been reading board for a few years, gu 78 grad, never played organized basketball, but did ref high school basketball. have no skills in accessing talent (thought heytvelt was a lotto pick and turiaf would not make it in the nba). but i have my opinions just like the rest of you. Those in the coach is a genious camp and those in coach is a dimwit camp...i'm listening, i can be persuaded (more on that later)

please share your thoughts on playing time, how many minutes, why and what does it say about the team. i'll start.

1. pangos 32, stockton 8
2. bell 32, k.d. 8
3. edi 20, harris 8, hart 6, k.d. 6
4. harris 22, dower 12, k.o. 6
5. k.o. 16, karnowski 14, harris 10

yes i have harris with 8 minutes at the 3, i think coach needs to do this to get playing time for the rest of his bigs, and yes only 30 minutes but that is more than he played last year.

bell gets an extra 3 minutes this year and pangos stays the same. bell seemed to get stronger and more comfortable as the year went by, i think he is ready to take on more minutes and more leadership of this team.

i like stockton and hart, they give us depth, but i have their minutes going down from last year. my feeling is the more they play they are taking minutes away from a starter.

as to the two freshman, karnowski and k.d., 14 minutes is just a guess, but 14 is not too shabby for newbies with no 2a college experience. but unlike hart and stockton the more they play, the better, that means they are exceeding expectations and are on the court because they are the better player.

i split minutes for k.o. and dower (its pre season!) my hope is k.o. and dower will be happy with 22 minutes. i would hope so, that is 4 more per game for dower and more like 8 minutes more for k.o. over his last year of playing.

lets have your thoughts on playing time!

jazzdelmar
09-04-2012, 04:28 PM
Seems right. Karno should exceed 14 if Zags are going deep. Pangos and Bell can't play too many minutes for me.

Bouldin4Prez
09-04-2012, 04:32 PM
no way Harris will be playing 40 minutes a game.

bostonzagfan
09-04-2012, 04:34 PM
im guessing you mean the last 10 mins at center go to dower, not harris, otherwise you have harris for 40 mins a game.

i would say

PG: Pangos 32, Stockton 8
SG: Bell 32, Dranginis 8
SF: Edi 24, Dranginis 8, Hart 8
PF: Harris 30, Dower 10
C: KO 20, Karno 12, Dower 8

4/5 spots really tough, but I don't see Harris playing sf at all so someone has to play <15 mins

GonzaGAW
09-04-2012, 05:24 PM
you are correct, at five spot it should read dower 10 minutes, not harris.
in small print is my edit on that typo of mine.

Oregonzagnut
09-04-2012, 05:42 PM
Until I see how Kelly plays in the exhib games, I have trouble judging PT for our frontcourt.

Everyone else I can envision pretty much the same as last year. But who starts and gets the PT at the center position is the million dollar question. Also, I think with the depth of our front court, we may see Harris shift to the #3 spot in rare occasions where Few wants to "go big". I think Few will want to give Harris time in all three spots especially early season games and that, along with any numerous odd combinations, PT will be an interesting adventure.

My hope is that by the time WCC rolls around, we are ranked in the top 5 and our starting 5 is clearly defined and we dominate every statistical category and match-up scenario that is thrown at us.

Bogozags
09-04-2012, 06:15 PM
Until I see how Kelly plays in the exhib games, I have trouble judging PT for our frontcourt.

Everyone else I can envision pretty much the same as last year. But who starts and gets the PT at the center position is the million dollar question. Also, I think with the depth of our front court, we may see Harris shift to the #3 spot in rare occasions where Few wants to "go big". I think Few will want to give Harris time in all three spots especially early season games and that, along with any numerous odd combinations, PT will be an interesting adventure.

My hope is that by the time WCC rolls around, we are ranked in the top 5 and our starting 5 is clearly defined and we dominate every statistical category and match-up scenario that is thrown at us.

I like your optimism with GU in the top five...it is possible so...

I think we will see KO, Karno and Harris on the floor at the same time as both KO and Karno have excellent passing skills...I would like to see us play a zone with SD, KO and EH on the floor at the same time...not sure if we see EH at the "3" again this season unless we play a Zone...

The unknown is KD and how well he can adjust to ball at this level. If he truly is "all that" as has been stated on this board, then he will get more minutes at the "3" and Hart will play less...Hart is the "glue factor" and it is hard to keep him off the court as he does so many things well...Edi will be limited to his foul trouble. He is the most athletic on the team BUT sure gets saddled with fouls pretty darn quickly...much the same way KO did his second year.

Again, SD's time will be predicated on the strength of his wheels, defensive improvement and ability to score as he will get more touches this year than last year...

One other point, we have a total of 20 fouls in the front court, which is a tremendous advantage over everyone else in the WCC and most OOC teams as well...

I just hope we don't need to play with more than one ball to keep everyone happy regarding PT...Don't know when we had this much quality depth as we have IMO 8-9 possible starters...on paper that is...just hope we all stay healthy, wealthy and wise...and we should be in for a heck of a ride!

MickMick
09-04-2012, 08:01 PM
im guessing you mean the last 10 mins at center go to dower, not harris, otherwise you have harris for 40 mins a game.

i would say

PG: Pangos 32, Stockton 8
SG: Bell 32, Dranginis 8
SF: Edi 24, Dranginis 8, Hart 8
PF: Harris 30, Dower 10
C: KO 20, Karno 12, Dower 8

4/5 spots really tough, but I don't see Harris playing sf at all so someone has to play <15 mins

I think this is fairly close to what I would like to see. Doesn't mean Few will play it out that way.

4/5 are interchangeable parts but Harris will definitely get the lions's share. Some folks see Dranginis as strictly a sg, but I like your distribution and would like to see Kyle at sf often.

I'm an Edi fan because of his athleticism and Hart will likely see the floor more than many folks think.

The Zags are stacked and I'm not going to get my panties in a bunch over minutes with the exception of Pangos and Bell. I want to see at least one of them on the floor at all times when the outcome is still in question.

Pargo the Destroyer
09-04-2012, 10:40 PM
Until I see how Kelly plays in the exhib games, I have trouble judging PT for our frontcourt.

Everyone else I can envision pretty much the same as last year. But who starts and gets the PT at the center position is the million dollar question. Also, I think with the depth of our front court, we may see Harris shift to the #3 spot in rare occasions where Few wants to "go big". I think Few will want to give Harris time in all three spots especially early season games and that, along with any numerous odd combinations, PT will be an interesting adventure.

My hope is that by the time WCC rolls around, we are ranked in the top 5 and our starting 5 is clearly defined and we dominate every statistical category and match-up scenario that is thrown at us.

So we're clear. Zags lose Sacre, arguably the zags best interior defensive player, along with being a physical monster and intimidator, with the Euro Karno, an admittedly soft and overweight big who has zero experience in the NCAA and a redshirt junior big man who was a point guard in high school, and you say top 5 by WCC time? They must have koolaid on tap where you're at. So unproven and with the schedule being brutal again, I don't see it. The frontcourt is unathletic, skilled maybe, but very unathletic. Nobody but Harris and Edi plays above the rim. Not a good sign.

Oregonzagnut
09-04-2012, 11:12 PM
I want to see at least one of them on the floor at all times when the outcome is still in question.

I hate to say it but one of Gonzaga's achilles heels is that even if we are over 15 pts ahead, the outcome is still in question.

It is a trap here to say "killer instinct" on this forum. But still, I want to dominate with no regrets and no remorse, AND shake hands and be good sports. I want 40 minutes of total domination. I hope Few wants to dominate each game this season so he can practice putting away his need for gentlemanly sportsmanship banter when our opponents are trying to gouge our eyes out in the tournament. 2006? UCL:vomit-smiley-007: We started clock management way too early. I hate it when Few pulls in the reigns. Our opponents learn that about us.

Some here will say they don't want a Final four if it means we score as much as we can. For me I want to score as much as we can because I respect my opponent. I always believe our opponent can come back. But I guess I am different than some. It is a trap of playing sports to win or playing sports to lean and be gentlemen/women. Why are we here? The answer isn't all the same.

2wiceright
09-04-2012, 11:34 PM
"Nobody but Harris and Edi plays above the rim. Not a good sign." -PTD


At this point it's always pure speculation- killing time. Although with Sacre we lost the best defensive center in the league (who could score when he wasn't being swarmed), it's not like we lost great athleticism or 'above the rim' play with him either.

In losing Rob the biggest loss was his leadership and solid all around defensive skillset. If, big if, Kelley has learned and excels at his new role, or Karnowski is as good as some talking heads have hinted, our 5 will have a different skillset which might better compliment Few's "pass down low" offense.
Seeing the ball passed back out when the low post is swarmed with shooters all around can be a big improvement. At this point though I'd take Rob back in a heartbeat....

If one of three centers can step up and play defense I still think we'll do much better this year. Maturity and growth at the guard positions, Kelly and Drags coming off a redshirt year, Harris and Edi having monster years (plus sudden Sam going off offensively in bunches)- the potential is there to be one of our best offensive teams since Adam's last year that nearly got us past the S16 barrier.

gozagswoohoo
09-05-2012, 06:05 AM
Great first post! And I think you're pretty close with your predictions. I'd love to see Harris get at least 8 at the 3. This is one of the oldest arguments over the last couple years...but I would love to see him get that many minutes there.

godfamilycountryzags
09-05-2012, 06:30 AM
My hope would be that KD can get some time at point. Some here have said that he has the skills to do so and against some teams his size at the 1 would be a difference maker. When Few moves KP over to the 2 and goes with the three guards, I also would rather see KD over DS, again to keep a little size on the floor. With all the talent in the front court I don't see how EH does not see 5-10 min. at the 3 but like every thing, time will tell.

zaguarxj
09-05-2012, 06:49 AM
Nobody thinks Drew Barham will earn playing time?

75Zag
09-05-2012, 07:11 AM
I hope that GU has enough "starting" talent at all positions (with the possible exception of small forward) so that GU can go with a set lineup that does not require platooning players. Once Few has completed his early season experimentation, I hope to read box scores where only 7 or 8 or maybe 9 players played in the entire game, absent injury or garbage time blowouts. My observation is that successful teams at the highest levels of the NCAA play very few players. If you need to plan to use 3 or 4 different players to give you coverage at any one position, it is could be a very long year.

Go Bulldogs!

cjm720
09-05-2012, 08:05 AM
Nobody thinks Drew Barham will earn playing time?

He's definitely the forgotten man. I'm excited to see what he brings, but is he eligible for 2012/2013 or does he have to sit a year?


As for playing time for our squad: tough to tell other than Pangos, Bell, and Harris getting 30+ minutes each, and like Mick Mick's hope, Few will never not have one of those players on the floor (in particular the guards).

KStyles
09-05-2012, 08:12 AM
He's definitely the forgotten man. I'm excited to see what he brings, but is he eligible for 2012/2013 or does he have to sit a year?


Immediately eligible. He graduated from Memphis this summer and enrolled in a graduate program at GU that Memphis didn't offer (Organizational Leadership).

Vanzagger
09-05-2012, 09:47 AM
can't say that word enough. Coach needs to let his horses play through some stuff.

If the 5 he starts in first game are confident in March, we go far.

Vanzagger
09-05-2012, 09:50 AM
Karno and KD should be right in the mix with our starting 6(KP,GBJ,Guy,E,KO,Sam)


There is your core rotation. Don't over think it.

cjm720
09-05-2012, 09:59 AM
Karno and KD should be right in the mix with our starting 6(KP,GBJ,Guy,E,KO,Sam)


There is your core rotation. Don't over think it.

I'm sure Few agrees with you, but you got to get others experience. Rotation usually gets settled by conference time.

UberZagFan
09-05-2012, 10:15 AM
It would be surprising to see KD get those types of minutes over Stocks and/or Hart. Not saying it shouldn't be the case, just would be surprising based upon past practices of the coaching staff.

And it would also be surprising to see that 10 player rotation play out throughout the whole year.

The biggest question mark is definitely the 5 spot. If any 2 of those big 3 step up and demand floor time, then that pushes one to 4 and either forces EH at the 3 or lessens his minutes some. And that will have a trickle down effect on whether Edi/Hart or a 3rd guard (KD, GBJ, or whoever) is a better option at the 3 spot.

KP and GBJ should be playing a consistent 30-32 minutes by WCC time.

zag buddy
09-05-2012, 10:18 AM
Once again don't forgot Mike Hart, the senior with the motor.

MDABE80
09-05-2012, 10:40 AM
Once again don't forgot Mike Hart, the senior with the motor.


THIS!! Part of the problem Buddy is that most of the board has only seen Mike in Games where he doesn't shoot very well. If he ever shoots in games like he does in practice, everything changes. I think he and Gary are our best two defenders. Mike likely prevents 10 ppg from the other team. THAT has got to be worth plenty. Defense wins championships.

Vanzagger
09-05-2012, 11:33 AM
As usual it's going to be near impossible to keep everyone happy.

D1 coaches make the big $ for a reason.