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Radbooks
08-23-2012, 05:47 AM
Jay has a column about 5 college hoops teams that could surprise and lists GU first. I know that Andy Katz usually likes us, but I never think of Jay as being super positive about us. He even mentions Kelly and PK! :) Anyway, it's a nice little blurb and there is a picture of some of the guys at the ESPN site (http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/bilas_jay/id/8292175/five-college-hoops-teams-make-march-madness-noise-season-ncb).


It seems as if Mark Few's Zags are in this position often. Gonzaga has won in the West Coast Conference like UCLA did in the John Wooden era, yet it has not been able to crack the Elite Eight barrier since 1999. Gonzaga has been good enough but has always seemed to come up against the toughest draws and seeds, not to mention a couple of tough game locations.

This year, I like Few's crew and the Zags' chances to be special. Young guards Kevin Pangos, Gary Bell and David Stockton are gamers, and Pangos and Bell each hit more than 50 3-point field goals last season. Elias Harris is the best player, rebounder and scorer, and he had a really nice performance at the LeBron James Skills Academy in Las Vegas. Lefty Sam Dower has improved every year, and bigs Kelly Olynyk and Przemek Karnowski provide size and skill. Remember, this team pounded West Virginia and played Ohio State tough in the NCAA tournament with a young backcourt last season.

gu03alum
08-23-2012, 06:17 AM
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/0725/ncb_u_zags_sy_576.jpg

omahazag
08-23-2012, 06:18 AM
Jay has a column about 5 college hoops teams that could surprise and lists GU first. I know that Andy Katz usually likes us, but I never think of Jay as being super positive about us. He even mentions Kelly and PK! :) Anyway, it's a nice little blurb and there is a picture of some of the guys at the ESPN site (http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/bilas_jay/id/8292175/five-college-hoops-teams-make-march-madness-noise-season-ncb).

Thanks Rad -- curious as to the other teams Bilas listed?

bartruff1
08-23-2012, 06:24 AM
Not to be snarky but Jay tends to focus on the eastern third of the country. Seems like a well thought out and fair article.

No koolaid here. I am in a wait and see mode on the big guys and how they play defense.... you don't go far in March, without defense....IMHO of course..

bullzag23
08-23-2012, 07:29 AM
Not to be snarky but Jay tends to focus on the eastern third of the country. Seems like a well thought out and fair article.

No koolaid here. I am in a wait and see mode on the big guys and how they play defense.... you don't go far in March, without defense....IMHO of course..

Strangely enough I feel like our perimeter D will be stronger than our interior D this year.....

hooter73
08-23-2012, 07:29 AM
At least someone besides us is finally realizing we get screwed seeds every year.

bullzag23
08-23-2012, 07:30 AM
Not to be snarky but Jay tends to focus on the eastern third of the country. Seems like a well thought out and fair article.

No koolaid here. I am in a wait and see mode on the big guys and how they play defense.... you don't go far in March, without defense....IMHO of course..

Also I just checked the article. I agree with your statement on Bilas but the other teams were (surprise!) Stanford, UNLV, Creighton and San Diego State. Only 1 eastern(kind of) team out of the bunch.

Vanzagger
08-23-2012, 09:27 AM
At least someone besides us is finally realizing we get screwed seeds every year.

of business in the regular season. Don't get cute just because you can. Step on somebody's throat.

Vanzagger
08-23-2012, 09:32 AM
please don't take that last part literally. I don't want Bounty Gate II showing up on our doorstep.

What a joke

Vanzagger
08-23-2012, 09:42 AM
throw in Stanford too, are all looking to fill a void that we have been unable to fill.... A west coast team looking to kick down some doors.

Because of the diamonds in the ruff and the KC the window remains open. It won't forever.

Win in March yesterday!

bartruff1
08-23-2012, 09:48 AM
Strangely enough I feel like our perimeter D will be stronger than our interior D this year..... I sure hope your right, I am no coach or expert of any kind, but I though Sacre was the key to every facet of our defense including the perimeter and the press.. he was the backstop for the wild pitches...and he could actually be effective on the perimeter...in certain situations and against certain players... I love that guy.

bartruff1
08-23-2012, 09:50 AM
Also I just checked the article. I agree with your statement on Bilas but the other teams were (surprise!) Stanford, UNLV, Creighton and San Diego State. Only 1 eastern(kind of) team out of the bunch. Yes, that was what was so surprising... I didn't think he could see across the wide Missouri..

Oregonzagnut
08-23-2012, 10:17 AM
the fact that western teams will surprise people supports his east coast bias. There are no east coast teams that will surprise anyone is what he could be basically thinking. So Bilas is still Bilas. I lost much respect for him due to this: http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/bilas_jay/id/7578744/murray-state-deserves-the-ncaa-tournament-regardless-automatic-bids-ncb

But when Bilas says this: "Remember, this team pounded West Virginia and played Ohio State tough in the NCAA tournament with a young backcourt last season." I also remember what Pangos and Bell did as frosh was impressive.

And I agree with bullzag23,
"Strangely enough I feel like our perimeter D will be stronger than our interior D this year....."

If Kelly and Karno can surprise us with better than average D, we will have on of our most balanced teams on "O" and "D" EVER. At least IMO. We can't really say that Ammo's 2006 team was very balanced, it was a scoring machine. Yet

ZagNative
08-23-2012, 10:54 AM
I don't understand the Bilas bashing. He's long been a good friend to Mark Few and to the Gonzaga program, and he's supported Coach Few's efforts in Coaches v. Cancer.

I posted the following quote from a Jay Bilas column in 2007, in this thread: (http://www.guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?p=83572#post83572)
The Next Gonzaga

Whenever a school from a non-BCS conference has success, I am always asked whether that school can be the "next Gonzaga". Last season, I was asked that question about George Mason. Earlier this week, I was asked that question about Davidson. A bunch of coaches on the mid-major level have gotten fired over that question, and the fact is because it is a silly one. The question is the same as asking whether a player could be the "next Jordan". Gonzaga has done something that is almost impossible to duplicate elsewhere, for which there is no blueprint. The Zags have a good tradition, great continuity in coaches and mind-blowing support. Gonzaga was doing it their way and the right way -- and well before any of us caught on -- when Dan Monson and the Zags made their run to the Elite Eight in 1999. In less than 10 years, what Gonzaga has accomplished in Spokane has been nothing short of incredible, with conference titles, NCAA appearances, and a reputation that requires a "storming of the court" if you beat them.

But, it is folly to suggest that we should expect that sort of success from other programs in similar conferences. What Gonzaga has done with its limited size and resources has never really been done before, and may never be done again. When Gonzaga burst onto the scene and stayed there, which school did we compare it to? Gonzaga was the next & who? The answer is nobody, because no team from the mid-major level had ever done it in the modern game. The program that has come the closest to Gonzaga's success over the past decade has been Southern Illinois. The Salukis have been consistent winners in the Missouri Valley Conference, have had great support and a great consistency of coaches. I cannot wait to get to Carbondale this season to see the Salukis, or the "closest thing to Gonzaga". Lighten up on my man Jay. He's by far my favorite analyst.

bartruff1
08-23-2012, 11:21 AM
Please post this everytime some moron criticizes Few and the progam for not meeting their bat####crazy expectations and doesn't see what has happened here...bart

Oregonzagnut
08-23-2012, 11:36 AM
I don't understand the Bilas bashing. He's long been a good friend to Mark Few and to the Gonzaga program, and he's supported Coach Few's efforts in Coaches v. Cancer.

I posted the following quote from him in 2007, in this thread: (http://www.guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?p=83572#post83572)Lighten up on my man Jay. He's by far my favorite analyst.

That is exactly why, like you, I liked Jay originally and for a very long time. He jumped on the Gonzaga train back in the Dickau days and has since been supportive. But his opinion (and he has held on to it FAR TOO LONG) is that automatic bids should go away, in favor of the top 64 RPI/ranked teams.

So let me clarify my opinion on that I have lost "much respect" for Jay. As a person and supporter of CAC, he is a standup guy. He has done a lot for the sport, for ESPN and fans everywhere. My criticism is not of him as a person or "friend to Few". Like I said my "turning" on Jay stems from his opinion that automatic bids should be stopped! Jay "turned" on the heart of college basketball. If Jay had his way back in 1997, Gonzaga might not have gotten where we are today without automatic bids. Jay is a friend of "Purist Hoops" and he has lost touch with the majority of fans, players, and the fact that the tournament is exciting because ANYONE can be champion if they can win their final 9 games of the season. He probably formulated this junk, when Duke beat Arkansas Pine-Bluff by 40 points in the first round and figured his beloved shouldn't have to deal with such an indignity. Ask Gonzaga, George Mason, Hampton, Richmond if automatic bids are the blood of their entire seasons!!!!

To take away the hopes and dreams of all but the perennial top 50 ranked teams and the 4-5 best conferences, is catamount to cutting the heart oout of the entire sport. the rich sould get richer and the poor get poorer. It would kill the hopes of 80% of the athletes, 80% of the programs, every future cinderella story, every mid major who just needs to get a few wins in the Dance to create the NEXT GONZAGA!! If Jay is such a purist that he wants to only see the best basketball, maybe he should write about the NBA.

College athletics is Far FAR FAR more about just X's and O's. It is about teaching, learning, and knowing that all throughout life if you keep trying till "the fat lady sings" you can win it all.

If we kill that, we kill what is the best tournament on the planet for the best sport on the planet, and it makes his analysis seem phony and hypocritical in retrospect.

And that is why I have lost much (not all) respect for Jay Bilas.

bartruff1
08-23-2012, 11:42 AM
To me the automatic bids are the soul of march madness... the only madness in march madness...those upsets of the 1-4 seeds are the only reason I watch the games that don't envolve Gonzaga.

CDC84
08-23-2012, 11:45 AM
I think the issue that some people have with Bilas is that he strongly believes Gonzaga is a mid major program and can never be anything but a mid major program, no matter how unique they might be. He acknowledges Gonzaga's uniqueness, but he refuses to re-label them. He won't even refer to them as a "fringe major." They are mid major forever unless they move to a BCS league, period. There's no middle ground. It's a permanent tag. They can have more games on the ESPN channels than any BCS team besides Duke, but they're still mid major.

In short, he's stuck in the football paradigm. But he isn't alone.


The question is the same as asking whether a player could be the "next Jordan". Gonzaga has done something that is almost impossible to duplicate elsewhere, for which there is no blueprint.

If it's impossible to duplicate, then why not give them a new label? It's like taking a Ford, taking out most of its parts and replacing them with parts from another car brand, and then still calling it a Ford. It's not the same car it was once was. By continuing to refer to Gonzaga as a mid major program, it dupes many non-BCS athletic directors into believing that they can do the same thing. Bilas acknowledges himself that they can't.

Other than that, I have always liked Bilas, both as a person and as an analyst. I disagree with him on occasion, but I usually respect his take. Unlike Digger Phelps, he's usually somewhat informed.

ZagNative
08-23-2012, 11:50 AM
Bilas is always thought-provoking and sometimes aggravating, but I always pay attention to what he writes. However, I laugh at myself when I remember an angry call I made to ESPN to cancel my subscription after he criticized Adam Morrison during the run-up to the 2006 NBA draft, when he said "Adam Morrison couldn't guard a Brinks truck."

Man, I was mad at him for saying what turned out to be all-too-true.

titopoet
08-23-2012, 12:02 PM
Actually it is not hard to see why all this good press. This team has all of the elements for great season: experience, speed, shooting, quickness, balance, rebounding,. depth, athletic. There is no hole in this team. This is the most complete team since the Morrison's last year. Saying this, having all of the elements does not mean they will all blend, the strangeness of life.

(for those that think I am slighting a team form the past. I am not. Last years had a weakness in backcourt experience. The great 2008 team had two players, Daye and Heytvelt playing out of position with Bouldin being that team's best post. It was short one center.)

Does that mean anything in the future regarding this team will be a foregone conclusion? Does this mean team will join the other Zag teams. No one knows the future, Having the elements does not mean certain glory. Dickau's last team end in disaster in New Mexico. There was the sadness of UCLA.

But hope, Zag fans as the pieces are there.

Oregonzagnut
08-23-2012, 12:15 PM
and a lawyer.


To me the automatic bids are the soul of march madness... the only madness in march madness...those upsets of the 1-4 seeds are the only reason I watch the games that don't envolve Gonzaga.

The article Bilas wrote in 2007 was 3 years before he published his opinion about losing the auto bids and that article ZN posted IS EXACTLY why I liked Bilas for many years. He seemed to support small school success. But if he gets rid of auto bids, it makes all those statements seem like lip service. He likes the end results and rewards of the "feel good" cinderella story, but has no real love for the system and infrastructure that made it possible.

Its like he says about Gonzaga: "Wow, I love my shiny new sexy car, but I want to shut down all the car factories because they are a burden and ugly."

I probably shouldn't single out Bilas, TBH. It is a symptom of our media and the nature of "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer". But either he is disconnected from the heart of the tournament or he succumbed to big money to promote such an idea.

Since that article I call him East Coast Bilas. But he is an "expert" and it is true he is usually spot on in an unemotional objective sense. And that is where I think Bilas has lost his "heart". he tends to be an emotionless commentator and someone like Vitale is ALL emotion.

Sorry ZN, I'm done, Bilas bashing is over. (for now) :)

bartruff1
08-23-2012, 12:22 PM
I think they should expand the automatic bids to include the Conference Season and Tourney Champions if they are different... but that is just me, and others see that as to much... it would weaken the field... they have a point and a good one... I just hate to see a team win the Conference and stumble in a one and done tourney especially because of something like the flu or a blister or bad call.

MDABE80
08-23-2012, 12:34 PM
Breaking it all down, here is the botto line: WE NEED AND MUST HAVE AN ADDITIONAL WEEKEND ON TV.
How they classify us after that is up to them. We ust show we are BCS with a march toward the championship.

It didn't used to be that way. We were that "cute little engine that could" back then. Then we elevated our status to "most feared". Now, we must join the Elite to be regarded as this crazy artificial BCS type program. It likely can only be done with that additional weekend. Not just one either.

Our path is more difficult not having a BCS football program. Once basketball season is over, we fade from notice and get little press. BUT if we take that next step, things will change. People will say something like this: They might only play basketball but they do it as well as anyone else".

We need consistently deeper runs. Nothing else will do. After that, I don't care about these artificial classifications. We win big games in the NCAA we rise. And that's that.

Oregonzagnut
08-23-2012, 01:18 PM
We need consistently deeper runs. Nothing else will do. After that, I don't care about these artificial classifications. We win big games in the NCAA. And that's that.

Bingo. That extra Sweet 16 /E8 weekend is the greatest thing for any mid major to be a part of, Dark horse or not. Those 5 days of national interviews and analysis between the 2nd and 3rd rounds can help carry the conversation through the entire off-season. That momentum helps recruiting and can keep a fan base going.

tobizag
08-23-2012, 08:26 PM
I think the issue that some people have with Bilas is that he strongly believes Gonzaga is a mid major program and can never be anything but a mid major program, no matter how unique they might be. He acknowledges Gonzaga's uniqueness, but he refuses to re-label them. He won't even refer to them as a "fringe major." They are mid major forever unless they move to a BCS league, period. There's no middle ground. It's a permanent tag. They can have more games on the ESPN channels than any BCS team besides Duke, but they're still mid major.

In short, he's stuck in the football paradigm. But he isn't alone.



If it's impossible to duplicate, then why not give them a new label? It's like taking a Ford, taking out most of its parts and replacing them with parts from another car brand, and then still calling it a Ford. It's not the same car it was once was. By continuing to refer to Gonzaga as a mid major program, it dupes many non-BCS athletic directors into believing that they can do the same thing. Bilas acknowledges himself that they can't.

Other than that, I have always liked Bilas, both as a person and as an analyst. I disagree with him on occasion, but I usually respect his take. Unlike Digger Phelps, he's usually somewhat informed.

CDC: that car you're mentioning that has a ford badge but parts from other cars...it's still sold as a ford. hence the badge. bilas is trying to simply be accurate and consistent. the definition of those major/mid/low terms is inherently tied to conference. it is not a term used to describe quality, but rather $$$ and power.

CDC84
08-23-2012, 09:41 PM
the definition of those major/mid/low terms is inherently tied to conference. it is not a term used to describe quality, but rather $$$ and power.

Mississippi, Iowa State and South Florida, despite being BCS teams and having football money, would kill to have Gonzaga's television and media exposure in basketball. It's not just the fact that Gonzaga wins a lot of games and goes to a lot of NCAA tournaments. It has turned into something else. It's the power they have as a basketball brand name beyond their conference affiliation. That power gives them advantages that the coach at Cal State Northridge or South Alabama will never see through no fault of his own. Coach Few is going to beat those programs for a player not just because his program wins more games, but because his team flies everywhere in a chartered jet, his team's games are constantly on ESPN, he gets BCS programs like Michigan State and Notre Dame to play him on campus, etc. It goes beyond just "quality." Gonzaga has more "power" than Jay Bilas thinks.

I wish we would just get rid of all these labels - especially when it comes to college basketball. But if people insist upon using them, there has to be a way of distinguishing the Zags with their own label, whether you call them major, fringe major, whatever. If you don't do this, coaches get fired because they are grouped with a program they can't possibly emulate. That's unfair. It would be like firing Coach Few because he doesn't get to as many final fours as Kansas does. I don't measure success at Gonzaga by what Kansas is doing, because they simply have advantages that GU will never have. At the same time, most college basketball analysts (well, besides maybe Bilas) would tell you that Gonzaga operates as a basketball program more like Kansas than Sam Houston State. That has to be acknowledged. The mid major tag at this point has become dishonest. This program has more power and resources right now than some of its fans think. It's something I am very grateful for.

bigblahla
08-23-2012, 10:08 PM
Mississippi, Iowa State and South Florida, despite being BCS teams and having football money, would kill to have Gonzaga's television and media exposure in basketball. It's not just the fact that Gonzaga wins a lot of games and goes to a lot of NCAA tournaments. It has turned into something else. It's the power they have as a basketball brand name beyond their conference affiliation. That power gives them advantages that the coach at Cal State Northridge or South Alabama will never see through no fault of his own. Coach Few is going to beat those programs for a player not just because his program wins more games, but because his team flies everywhere in a chartered jet, his team's games are constantly on ESPN, he gets BCS programs like Michigan State and Notre Dame to play him on campus, etc. It goes beyond just "quality." Gonzaga has more "power" than Jay Bilas thinks.

I wish we would just get rid of all these labels - especially when it comes to college basketball. But if people insist upon using them, there has to be a way of distinguishing the Zags with their own label, whether you call them major, fringe major, whatever. If you don't do this, coaches get fired because they are grouped with a program they can't possibly emulate. That's unfair. It would be like firing Coach Few because he doesn't get to as many final fours as Kansas does. I don't measure success at Gonzaga by what Kansas is doing, because they simply have advantages that GU will never have. At the same time, most college basketball analysts (well, besides maybe Bilas) would tell you that Gonzaga operates as a basketball program more like Kansas than Sam Houston State. That has to be acknowledged. The mid major tag at this point has become dishonest. This program has more power and resources right now than some of its fans think. It's something I am very grateful for.

Great post!

"The mid-major tag at this point is dishonest". Have to agree.

Go!! Zags!!!

MDABE80
08-23-2012, 10:38 PM
Not that it matters but why allow being labeled
mid" or "less than" because of value given to a sport we don't play?
Might be a nice gimmick for the big conferences to maintain power they don't want to give up but it also makes the big media feel comfortable. Moreover, since more of these pundits went to the big conference schools, it lightens their load as well. Give them an artificial reason to feel somehow like an authority looking down their collective noses. Structure they themselves are part of makes them feel better. It how the brains of these "joiners" work.

So, we elevate our game and find our way to S16's, E 8's and a FF ....multiple times. We're not that far from that anyway. We have a very unique chance to rewrite history by ignoring it. Something about that concept makes me smile. For those of you who know my work, it's how I've lived. It works. Harvard said "no", I said " "yes"....... but I don't care what you think". Our group won. Dedicate yourself to a higher purpose and you always win. And so it goes.......
Go Zags!

Oregonzagnut
08-23-2012, 11:21 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-major

Why does "mid-major" still offend so many? I went through the phase where I took it as an insult as did Mark Few and probably all fans at one point or another. But we defy all previous definitions as Bilas said. We just have to accept that the new nationally recognized term for what we are is, "GONZAGA". And if we are the lone member of that category, and every "mid-major school" seeks to be the "Next Gonzaga", then I wear that honor proudly!

LOOK FOLKS if you go to the "Mid Major Top 25" you see BYU in at #13!!

Think how BYU feels. The 1984 National Champion in football!! Almost 35K students! And they are a mid major? If they aren't a "major" then we aren't. Gonzaga has little to complain about if BYU is comfortable in their skin being a mid-major.

Robzagnut
08-24-2012, 07:01 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-major

Why does "mid-major" still offend so many? I went through the phase where I took it as an insult as did Mark Few and probably all fans at one point or another. But we defy all previous definitions as Bilas said. We just have to accept that the new nationally recognized term for what we are is, "GONZAGA". And if we are the lone member of that category, and every "mid-major school" seeks to be the "Next Gonzaga", then I wear that honor proudly!

LOOK FOLKS if you go to the "Mid Major Top 25" you see BYU in at #13!!

Think how BYU feels. The 1984 National Champion in football!! Almost 35K students! And they are a mid major? If they aren't a "major" then we aren't. Gonzaga has little to complain about if BYU is comfortable in their skin being a mid-major.


I agree 100%. There is nothing wrong with being a mid-major. Until GU plays in the Pac-10 or the WCC gets upgraded, they are a mid-major school. GU plays in a mid-major conference. What else do you expect everyone else in the country besides GU fans to call them?

To not like Bilas because he refers to GU as a mid-major is silly.

"They are who we thought they were."

JPtheBeasta
08-24-2012, 07:27 AM
This (http://www.guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?p=692264&highlight=mid-major#post692264) is post from a ways back when I was trying to figure out what it was to be a "mid-major".


http://www.guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?p=692264&highlight=mid-major#post692264

bullzag23
08-24-2012, 07:29 AM
I think they should expand the automatic bids to include the Conference Season and Tourney Champions if they are different... but that is just me, and others see that as to much... it would weaken the field... they have a point and a good one... I just hate to see a team win the Conference and stumble in a one and done tourney especially because of something like the flu or a blister or bad call.

I disagree on this point, simply because if this had been implemented than UW would have been in the NCAA last year, and not the NIT. :D

Ezag
08-24-2012, 08:34 AM
all this talk and hype...yada, yada, yada....I am as excited about this team as anyone, now they just need to go out there an make some noise....

cjm720
08-24-2012, 08:47 AM
I think they should expand the automatic bids to include the Conference Season and Tourney Champions if they are different... but that is just me, and others see that as to much... it would weaken the field... they have a point and a good one... I just hate to see a team win the Conference and stumble in a one and done tourney especially because of something like the flu or a blister or bad call.

The conference choses how teams automotically qualify, not the NCAA. As I understand it, for example, a conference can chose the 5th place team as the auto bid. Of course that makes no sense, but the conferences have chosen who they select for a reason (i.e., conference tourney champs, typically, and it's for money).

ZagNative
08-24-2012, 09:18 AM
The conference choses how teams automotically qualify, not the NCAA. As I understand it, for example, a conference can chose the 5th place team as the auto bid. Of course that makes no sense, but the conferences have chosen who they select for a reason (i.e., conference tourney champs, typically, and it's for money).Where did you get that idea? Are you being tongue-in-cheek?

The winner of the conference tournament is entitled to the autobid, unless the conference doesn't have a tournament (i.e., the Ivy League), in which case the regular season champion gets the autobid.

KStyles
08-24-2012, 10:11 AM
The conference choses how teams automotically qualify, not the NCAA.

This part of the statement is definitely correct. However, the conference champion is the team that receives the auto-bid, and the NCAA really only gives each conference two options of how to determine that. "Conference competition must be conducted in the applicable sport and the conference champion in that sport must be determined not later than the date on which participants are selected for the NCAA championship, either by regular in-season conference competition or a conference meet or tournament, as indicated at the time of application."

It doesn't really seem possible to award an autobid to a fifth-place team, mainly because the champion inherently finishes in first-place. Usually the conference ranks teams by descending number of wins (if they use the regular season) or descending order of tournament finish (if they use a conference tourney). I suppose, in an extremely bizarre situation, its possible a conference could name the champion the squad that finishes closest to 5th place in the regular-season standings to be the champion, but again, that team would still be first-place (the best) at finishing 5th in the standings.

cjm720
08-24-2012, 12:20 PM
This part of the statement is definitely correct. However, the conference champion is the team that receives the auto-bid, and the NCAA really only gives each conference two options of how to determine that. "Conference competition must be conducted in the applicable sport and the conference champion in that sport must be determined not later than the date on which participants are selected for the NCAA championship, either by regular in-season conference competition or a conference meet or tournament, as indicated at the time of application."

It doesn't really seem possible to award an autobid to a fifth-place team, mainly because the champion inherently finishes in first-place. Usually the conference ranks teams by descending number of wins (if they use the regular season) or descending order of tournament finish (if they use a conference tourney). I suppose, in an extremely bizarre situation, its possible a conference could name the champion the squad that finishes closest to 5th place in the regular-season standings to be the champion, but again, that team would still be first-place (the best) at finishing 5th in the standings.

Based on your past insightful and well researched posts, I'll defer to you on this.

But I thought I read that somewhere and a similar example was used (but maybe it was how you presented it).

Kiddwell
08-25-2012, 12:22 PM
Back to the origin subject: This year's edition of Zags Men's Basketball looks like a goodie. A real goodie. Nice to see the pundits at :espn: noting as much. Seeing how the new-and-improved KO plays (read: redshirted KO) is key. He needs to be big, authoritative, and intimidating. Secondarily, this fan is really, really looking forward to the contributions of the Idahoan and the Pole. If those guys come through, Holy Cow.

Folks, Bilas et al like us. That's worth at least one frosty root beer. :cheers:

:]

MickMick
08-25-2012, 02:10 PM
The argument over the mid major label gets tiresome.

GU has a national following, gets plenty of national press, plays plenty of big games, recruits players from anywhere, gets on plenty of nationally televised broadcasts.

Until they make a bigger splash than what they have already achieved, I really don't see why there would be cause for concern over being called a mid major. In fact, it is the underdog, cinderella image that has given GU more attention than if they were in a BCS conference. I kind of think it is an advantage from a perception standpoint. They perpetually have that underdog feel. In the end, it makes for a better story than if they were perceived as a factory school.

I'm fine with it. Mid majors are invited to the NCAA tournament and often do well. If it was an exclusive post season like the BCS football games, then the label would be much more important.

There are money pressures that inherently push for post season expansion as opposed to being more exclusive. Because of that, GU is in a great position well in to the future.

Oregonzagnut
08-25-2012, 07:41 PM
To not like Bilas because he refers to GU as a mid-major is silly.

"They are who we thought they were."

Silly indeed. Yet some get real upset we are called mid-major.

I don't like Bilas because he wants to get rid of automatic bids in the NCAA. Not just conference tournament bids, ALL automatic bids if you are not ranked top 64.