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View Full Version : GU Elite Eight Team vs. This current team



JPtheBeasta
07-12-2012, 11:30 AM
There has been much ado about Kobe's recent comments (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/olympics-fourth-place-medal/kobe-bryant-team-usa-2012-played-dream-team-163639708--oly.html)about the present olympic team being better than the Dream Team with Magic, Bird, Barkley, et al. As it is the summer down time, I am curious if anyone else has pondered whether the Elite Eight GU team would beat/is better/would beat in a best of seven (however you want to look at it) any of our teams that have come along since.

Mark Few has said, and I tend to agree more and more, that as time goes on that Elite 8 team gets better and better. They had something special that has not been replicated. Perhaps this was a little luck, but I give them a lot of credit for the level of talent on the team and their chemistry and competitive spirit.

If anyone would like to opine, it might be an entertaining endeavor. Mike Ditka and taco jokes are allowed, as far as I'm concerned.

CDC84
07-12-2012, 11:54 AM
I cannot speak for this year's team since I haven't seen them play yet, but I'd place good money on the 2008/09, 2003/04 and 2005/06 Gonzaga teams beating the elite 8 team in a best of 7 series. If it were a one game playoff, different story. Anything could happen.

That elite 8 team - as special as they were - was the beneficiary of a perfect draw with perfect game locations. They wouldn't have come close to making the NCAA tournament if they had not won the WCC tourney at a time when the WCC wasn't nearly as good as it is now. The program had zero stature back then, and every team they played in the dance had to of underestimated them....except maybe the decimated Minnesota team they faced in the 1st round. There is no surprise factor with Gonzaga anymore.

As a side note....I disagree with Kobe's take. The Dream Team had the two greatest point guards in the history of the game on the same team. I think that alone makes them better. With all star teams, the point guard is crucially important when it comes to directing the offense due to all of the egos involved.
Also, I would pick any team to win that had Michael Jordan on its roster.

webspinnre
07-12-2012, 12:08 PM
As a side note....I disagree with Kobe's take. The Dream Team had the two greatest point guards in the history of the game on the same team. I think that alone makes them better. With all star teams, the point guard is crucially important when it comes to directing the offense due to all of the egos involved.
Also, I would pick any team to win that had Michael Jordan on its roster.

Completely agree regarding Gonzaga.

One of the things that I'd love to see in this hypothetical matchup of dream teams is Lebron guarding MJ. At various times he's shut down folks like Derrick Rose and Kevin Durant, but that'd be a whole new ballgame.

Hogan
07-12-2012, 12:19 PM
A fun topic. I would take the Elite 8 team against any other team, best of 7 or whatever. In my mind they had 3 of the top 15 players in Zag history, Santangelo, Frahm and Calvary.And some pretty fair role players. But boy the Morrison/Battista and Stepp/Turiaf teams would sure give them a go.

Gonzdb8
07-12-2012, 12:31 PM
this team would crush the elite 8 team. see above posts. i think we tend to romanticize the teams of the past, especially that one, but the stars aligned for them that year despite not having the athletic talent of future classes. in a 7 game series i think they'd get swept in 4 by the current team (and i say this confidently without even seeing this team take the floor).

sittingon50
07-12-2012, 01:13 PM
I don't think so, 8. Will post more later.

cjm720
07-12-2012, 01:29 PM
As a side note....I disagree with Kobe's take. The Dream Team had the two greatest point guards in the history of the game on the same team. I think that alone makes them better. With all star teams, the point guard is crucially important when it comes to directing the offense due to all of the egos involved.
Also, I would pick any team to win that had Michael Jordan on its roster.

Barkely said it best (not in these words) - only Lebron, Kobe, and Durant would have made the 1992 squad. Seriously, Tyson Chandler vs Karl Malone LOL.

75Zag
07-12-2012, 02:16 PM
Comparisons are always touchy subjects. If you don't believe me, at your next cocktail party or business event, try this line as an "ice breaker": "So Bob, how does your current wife compare with your first wife?"

Generally speaking, I recommend going with what you have now and not trying to re-live the past. GU should be pretty good this year, which is enough for me.

Go Bulldogs!

CDC84
07-12-2012, 02:30 PM
Barkely said it best (not in these words) - only Lebron, Kobe, and Durant would have made the 1992 squad. Seriously, Tyson Chandler vs Karl Malone LOL.

As great as the individual talents on the dream team were (Magic, MJ, etc.), what truly made the dream team special was the totality of talent on its roster.

Magic Johnson
John Stockton
Michael Jordan
Larry Bird
Patrick Ewing
Karl Malone
David Robinson
Clyde Drexler
Scottie Pippen
Charles Barkley
Chris Mullin
Christian Laettner

bartruff1
07-12-2012, 02:31 PM
I don't think so, 8. Will post more later.

I will go with CDC84 and Sitt...and I will be surprised if this team is more than average among the last dozen or so...BUT...as CD said, we haven't seen them play so... I will be happy to revise and extend my remarks if they turn out to be special....

cjm720
07-12-2012, 02:35 PM
As many of the more seasoned fans have pointed out, that E8 run included many lucky breaks. Personally, I think we've had several teams that would have beat teh E8 team including this one. But to advance deep in the tourney, you need some lucky breaks (different topic, I know).

cjm720
07-12-2012, 02:36 PM
As great as the individual talents on the dream team were (Magic, MJ, etc.), what truly made the dream team special was the totality of talent on its roster.

Magic Johnson
John Stockton
Michael Jordan
Larry Bird
Patrick Ewing
Karl Malone
David Robinson
Clyde Drexler
Scottie Pippen
Charles Barkley
Chris Mullin
Christian Laettner

All HOFs except Laettner, right? Simply amazing. Barkley also mentioned the biggest differnece was at PG...and without saying Stockton, it was a nice tip of the hat to him.

ZagFanInNC
07-12-2012, 03:29 PM
I think this year we will see possibly the best basketball GU has ever played by the time March rolls around. The only GU team that could compete with this year IMO is the Adam and JP show team.

Dream team wise, if this years squad had a healthy Dwight Howard and Derrick Rose they would maybe give them a run for their money but I don't think it's a lock.

sittingon50
07-12-2012, 05:29 PM
Wrote a reply (as promised) but apparently it was so long that by the time I tried to load it I had timed out. As I am old, technologically challenged & have a short fuse (get off my lawn!), I will not try again.

I think the E8 team beats this year's team. My basic argument is experience.

webspinnre
07-12-2012, 05:38 PM
Dream team wise, if this years squad had a healthy Dwight Howard and Derrick Rose they would maybe give them a run for their money but I don't think it's a lock.

Same thing with no D-Wade, right? You toss the three of them on there, and maybe we're talking about a series. With those guys at least on the top end they're somewhat similar, though the 1992 team is definitely deeper.

BULLDOG#1
07-13-2012, 07:38 AM
Don't you think this team should actually win a gold metal before we even compare them to the dream team? When asked the question, that 'should' have been Kobe's response...

Seriously though, it's not even close. For as talented as some of the current players are -- how do you forget the talent on the dream team? They would kill this team inside (Robinson and Ewing in their prime would completely dominate). Malone and Barkley would pretty much have their way inside, too... Every one of them but Laettner in the HOF? That's just amazing.

With the zags, we'd better wait until we see how this team works together. Talent wise, though, it looks like 2012 is as talented of a top-bottom roster that I can remember. Ammo's teams were top heavy and Pargo/Bouldin's teams were inconsistent. The elite 8 team had good balance of elite talent and good luck...

On thing is certain, this is going to be an exciting year for the zags.

Larrylegend
07-13-2012, 08:54 AM
Until GU gets to the Final Four, the Elite 8 team has set the standard for Gonzaga basketball.

MickMick
07-13-2012, 10:01 AM
Ravio, Batista, Morrison, Turiaf........

I would take that team in a 7 game series over any Zag team.

Now I'll step out on a limb. I think they will be surpassed (in my personal ranking) this season. I'lll take the current squad over any of them.

VinnyZag
07-13-2012, 10:25 AM
On the Olympic team topic, while I agree that '92 is better, I don't agree that it isn't close. Particularly is the current group had all the guys who are hurt ... Howard, Wade, Rose, etc. Remember , several of the Dream Teamers were near the end of their careers. For Magic and Bird, their careers were essentially over. All of the current guys are just now entering their prime, except for Kobe, who's still pretty impressive. And this, by the way, comes from someone who learned to love basketball by watching the 80s generation of players who got together for the first Dream Team.

As for the Zags, I'd agree that the Pargo, Morrison and Stepp/Turiaf teams would probably win. But I wouldn't underestimate the "athleticism" of the '98-99 group. Frahm was athletic enough to play several years in the NBA, Calvary was a great athlete, and Santangelo was a PAC-10 level athlete who wound up at GU in a bit of a fluke.

MDABE80
07-13-2012, 10:55 AM
Dream team best ever in history. More talent and they delivered by devastating the world.

Martin Centre Mad Man
07-13-2012, 11:13 AM
I wouldn't underestimate the "athleticism" of the '98-99 group. Frahm was athletic enough to play several years in the NBA, Calvary was a great athlete, and Santangelo was a PAC-10 level athlete who wound up at GU in a bit of a fluke.

That 1999 team was very athletic - maybe not as athletic as 2012, but they were one of the more athletic teams in the country, even then. My first look at that 1999 team was their first nationally televised game - the WCC Championship. I remember listening to the ESPN announcers gush about the combination of size and athleticism that Coach Monson had assembled. The runner-up Santa Clara team was completely out-matched at every position for speed, strength and skill. They looked as athletic as any team in the country, except for a handful of the true national title contenders. When they got to the NCAA tournament, they matched up very well against the players they played, including several future NBA players. The only player that they encountered in the entire tournament that seemed more athletic than they could handle was Rip Hamilton from the eventual national champion UCONN team.

MDABE80
07-13-2012, 11:44 AM
What treally matters is what the E 8 team did. Not the most athletic team we've had and not the most talent. But they wouldn't lose. These kids were tough. We've never seen a tougher team than that group. It matters. Toughness will save you when everything is even. UConn found out.

TexasZagFan
07-13-2012, 01:00 PM
What treally matters is what the E 8 team did. Not the most athletic team we've had and not the most talent. But they wouldn't lose. These kids were tough. We've never seen a tougher team than that group. It matters. Toughness will save you when everything is even. UConn found out.

Not only were they tough, but they had an unstoppable offense. Just consider the following:

1. 3PT % - .399, 3rd in the nation.
2. FG % - .474, 17th in the nation.
3. Assists - 8th in the nation.

Last year's team showed great improvement in perimeter defense. However, with the sets the E8 team ran, Richie Frahm would have gone bananas.

It would be a great game to watch, though!

bostonzagfan
07-13-2012, 05:36 PM
so i did a bunch of research compiling the year by year w/l record and highest ppg guys on each team. the best outside of the elite 8 seem to be:

02: 29-4, dickau 21 ppg, violette 13 ppg, gourde 13 ppg, stepp 9 ppg
04: 28-3, turiaf 16 pgg, stepp 15 ppg, violette 14 ppg, morrison 11 ppg
05: 26-5, morrison 19 ppg, turiaf 16 ppg, ravio 13 ppg, batista 12 ppg
06: 29-4, morrison 28 ppg, batista 19 ppg, ravio 11 ppg
09: 28-6, heytvelt 15 ppg, bouldin 14 ppg, daye 13 ppg, pargo 10 ppg, downs 10 ppg, gray 8 ppg

tough to say which season was best. 02 lost in first round. 04 team just 3 losses but lost in second round and no one was a total stud yet. 05 similar story to 04, a good morrison/turiaf/batista would have been a load to handle. 06 may have been the best but also very top heavy. 09 was probably the most talented top to bottom of the group but also lost more games than anyone else. i would probably go with 09 because they made s16 and got bounced by a ridiculous UNC team that was just amazing.

the run from 03/04 to 05/06 was unreal. funny thing i noticed is that bouldin's career spanned the least successful four years of the run.

ZagFanInNC
07-14-2012, 09:28 AM
Same thing with no D-Wade, right? You toss the three of them on there, and maybe we're talking about a series. With those guys at least on the top end they're somewhat similar, though the 1992 team is definitely deeper.

I forgot about Bosh too, they would definitely get killed in the post with the current roster.

TheGonzagaFactor
07-14-2012, 10:02 AM
Kind of hard to decide seeing as I HAVEN'T SEEN THIS TEAM PLAY YET.

TheGonzagaFactor
07-14-2012, 10:04 AM
As a side note....I disagree with Kobe's take. The Dream Team had the two greatest point guards in the history of the game on the same team. I think that alone makes them better. With all star teams, the point guard is crucially important when it comes to directing the offense due to all of the egos involved.
Also, I would pick any team to win that had Michael Jordan on its roster.

If this 2012 USA team wasn't missing 4 of their top 6 contributors, I would welcome the debate and likely lean towards this team, but Kobe was obviously joking. With the injuries, this USA team is probably not anywhere near as good as the 08 team.

JPtheBeasta
07-14-2012, 10:56 AM
Kind of hard to decide seeing as I HAVEN'T SEEN THIS TEAM PLAY YET.

Agreed, but not dissimilar to the Kobe Bryant scenario.

willandi
07-14-2012, 05:52 PM
Completely agree regarding Gonzaga.

One of the things that I'd love to see in this hypothetical matchup of dream teams is Lebron guarding MJ. At various times he's shut down folks like Derrick Rose and Kevin Durant, but that'd be a whole new ballgame.

A lot would depend on the zebras. MJ got away with a lot and got alot of calls his way. Called straight up, I think LeBron handles him.

Haven't seen this years team, and don't know how they would do against the E8 team, but expect great things from this years team.
Another question. If this years team goes FF or better, does that make them a better team than any of the other Zag teams, or is it just a combination of the luck, match-ups and seeds coming into play?