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jazzdelmar
06-22-2012, 07:39 PM
Eventual cost to Penn State: $500 million, give or take; incalculable loss of prestige. Besides the creep, Paterno is guilty party #2. No one at Penn State had the courage to confront the despotic football coach. PSU can never prevent bad people from behaving badly. But they are as guilty as Paterno in allowing this to go on. Spanier, the AD and VP should go to jail.

zag buddy
06-22-2012, 08:08 PM
wrong forum

ZagNative
06-22-2012, 08:16 PM
wrong forum
+1

Rangerzag
06-22-2012, 08:38 PM
wrong forum

+1


Still,
Correct sentiment.





.

gu03alum
07-12-2012, 05:43 AM
The Freeh Report has been issued:

Full copy of the final report (http://www.thefreehreportonpsu.com/REPORT_FINAL_071212.pdf)

Once and Future Zag
07-12-2012, 01:39 PM
They haven't shown themselves capable of acting responsibly - the NCAA just needs to drop them as a member institution.

How do you justify protecting a child-raper for a decade-plus?

Everybody knew, and NOBODY acted.

gu03alum
07-12-2012, 01:47 PM
They haven't shown themselves capable of acting responsibly - the NCAA just needs to drop them as a member institution.

How do you justify protecting a child-raper for a decade-plus?

Everybody knew, and NOBODY acted.

It's despicable and sad. I hope everyone involved goes to jail.

kitzbuel
07-12-2012, 01:47 PM
They haven't shown themselves capable of acting responsibly - the NCAA just needs to drop them as a member institution.

How do you justify protecting a child-raper for a decade-plus?

Everybody knew, and NOBODY acted.

Penn St is, unfortunately, most likely not much of an anomaly. Big money blinds many and there are many other schools scrambling to cover up their issues right now.

Once and Future Zag
07-12-2012, 02:03 PM
Penn St is, unfortunately, most likely not much of an anomaly. Big money blinds many and there are many other schools scrambling to cover up their issues right now.

Yes, every school has some skeletons. But this is an order of magnitude greater than anything I've ever heard of, or could have imagined.

The institution of Penn State protected a child-raper - this isn't just some "rogue elements" - this was an institutional decision made with the knowledge of pretty much the entire power structure of the university.

cjm720
07-12-2012, 02:27 PM
It's tough to put this in the sports category since we're dealing with victims, but I'd cancel every single PSU sport and revoke any sort of federal funding to the school for some period of time (minimum of 1 year).

Absolutely discraceful, disgusting, and disappointing.

gu03alum
07-13-2012, 03:42 AM
Joe Paterno at the End Showed More Interest in His Legacy than Sandusky's Victims (http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/joe-paterno-at-the-end-showed-more-interest-in-his-legacy-than-sanduskys-victims/2012/07/12/gJQAMUX9fW_story.html?hpid=z1)


Joe Paterno was a liar, there’s no doubt about that now. He was also a cover-up artist. If the Freeh report is correct in its summary of the Penn State child molestation scandal, the public Paterno of the last few years was a work of fiction. In his place is a hubristic, indictable hypocrite.

In the last interview before his death, Paterno insisted as strenuously as a dying man could that he had absolutely no knowledge of a 1998 police inquiry into child molestation accusations against his assistant coach, Jerry Sandusky. This has always been the critical point in assessing whether Paterno and other Penn State leaders enabled Sandusky’s crimes.

If Paterno knew about ’98, then he wasn’t some aging granddad who was deceived, but a canny and unfeeling power broker who put protecting his reputation ahead of protecting children.

If he knew about ’98, then he understood the import of graduate assistant Mike McQueary’s distraught account in 2001 that he witnessed Sandusky assaulting a boy in the Penn State showers.

gu03alum
07-13-2012, 03:42 AM
What I don't understand is all of the people I see still wearing Penn State gear, all of the people displaying Penn State stuff in their offices, and all of the people who still have Penn State flags waving in front of their homes.

gu03alum
07-13-2012, 05:51 AM
http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17slp3y3mdhkljpg/original.jpg

LongIslandZagFan
07-13-2012, 06:10 AM
A few of the talking heads have suggested that the entire football program be destroyed for a year or more. I have some opinions and ideas on this but would like to see what others think first.

gu03alum
07-13-2012, 06:37 AM
A few of the talking heads have suggested that the entire football program be destroyed for a year or more. I have some opinions and ideas on this but would like to see what others think first.

I think the NCAA should suspend the program for multiple years. This was a football related issue. Joe Pa protected the football program over the well being of the children being raped by that monster. He was more concerned about the image affecting recruiting and his legacy. In my opinion, that gives the NCAA plenty of justification to shut down the program.

cjm720
07-13-2012, 08:29 AM
"Lack of institutional control" - the NCAA has the power to do something, to send a message.

I doubt it happens, unfortunately.

The program is forever tainted and reputations of a (lying) "hero" forever tarnished. To me, that's not quite enough.

LongIslandZagFan
07-13-2012, 09:04 AM
Just an issue to ponder.

With nearly all involved no longer at PSU... If you destroy the football program, who are you really punishing? To some, you'd be punishing innocent people like the current football players and the businesses that surround the stadium in Happy Valley that made money serving the 100k people that came in for games.

Not disagreeing with the calls to dismantle but just offering food for thought.

Someone I work with suggested it would be akin to blowing up a city because you knew there was 2 terrorists living there somewhere. Collateral damage be damned.

gu03alum
07-13-2012, 09:18 AM
Just an issue to ponder.

With nearly all involved no longer at PSU... If you destroy the football program, who are you really punishing? To some, you'd be punishing innocent people like the current football players and the businesses that surround the stadium in Happy Valley that made money serving the 100k people that came in for games.

Not disagreeing with the calls to dismantle but just offering food for thought.

Someone I work with suggested it would be akin to blowing up a city because you knew there was 2 terrorists living there somewhere. Collateral damage be damned.

I agree with you to an extent, but this isn't really any different than most NCAA cases where they issue penalties a few years after the people who have committed the infractions have left. For example, USC football no longer has Reggie Bush or Pete Carroll. This needs to be an example to the rest of the colleges that they don't take this type of stuff lightly. You can protect and cover things up at your own risk.

On top of that, everyone in that town and everyone that supported that team should feel somewhat responsible for this situation. They treated Paterno like a God and created the atmosphere where he had absolute authority to do as he pleased.

cjm720
07-13-2012, 09:45 AM
On top of that, everyone in that town and everyone that supported that team should feel somewhat responsible for this situation. They treated Paterno like a God and created the atmosphere where he had absolute authority to do as he pleased.

He was God-like to many and it turns out he deceived many. The fans have no responsbility in this other than to help that this and other covers have dire consequences. IMO.

gu03alum
07-13-2012, 10:16 AM
He was God-like to many and it turns out he deceived many. The fans have no responsbility in this other than to help that this and other covers have dire consequences. IMO.

My point is that they were part of the culture that created this situation. I don't know if you saw them chanting in front of his house after the Sandusky stuff came out.

http://www.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.974810!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_370/image.jpg

Or when they rioted after paterno was fired

http://rt.com/files/usa/news/penn-state-riot-paterno-047/early-react-penn-state.n.jpg

http://static8.businessinsider.com/image/4eb9fc9beab8ea5242000014/penn-state-riot.jpg

LongIslandZagFan
07-13-2012, 10:17 AM
What if all proceeds from football for the next 3 years went into a general fund for the victims.

Once and Future Zag
07-13-2012, 10:53 AM
What if all proceeds from football for the next 3 years went into a general fund for the victims.

How about all football proceeds from the time of the first incident... that seems like a more equivalent level of penalty.

Penn State (the institution) let boys get raped so they could reap the economic benefits of their football program.

Why should they profit from their willingness to let a rapist have free run of the facilities to put to his use?

LongIslandZagFan
07-13-2012, 11:28 AM
How about all football proceeds from the time of the first incident... that seems like a more equivalent level of penalty.

Penn State (the institution) let boys get raped so they could reap the economic benefits of their football program.

Why should they profit from their willingness to let a rapist have free run of the facilities to put to his use?

I think that might actually be better. First off it is already something that is quantifiable. Secondly, it meets the timeline of the offenses.

gu03alum
07-13-2012, 11:59 AM
Tweet from Bilas


"@JayBilas: A friend: "PSU was NOT lack of institutional control. It was TOTAL institutional CONTROL." Prez, VPs, Joe (LEADERS) covered up. Good point."

cjm720
07-13-2012, 12:05 PM
My point is that they were part of the culture that created this situation. I don't know if you saw them chanting in front of his house after the Sandusky stuff came out.

http://www.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.974810!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_370/image.jpg

Or when they rioted after paterno was fired

http://rt.com/files/usa/news/penn-state-riot-paterno-047/early-react-penn-state.n.jpg

http://static8.businessinsider.com/image/4eb9fc9beab8ea5242000014/penn-state-riot.jpg

But at that point no one knew of the cover up...god forbid, but if this ever happened to Few I'd support him until damning facts came out because it would be inconceivably out of character.

gu03alum
07-13-2012, 12:40 PM
But at that point no one knew of the cover up...god forbid, but if this ever happened to Few I'd support him until damning facts came out because it would be inconceivably out of character.

Wow, ok. I will not be joining you at that pep rally and riot.

cjm720
07-13-2012, 01:03 PM
Wow, ok. I will not be joining you at that pep rally and riot.

I'm not saying I'd go to a rally, I'm saying I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. Hindsight's always 20-20, as they say.

tobizag
07-13-2012, 01:56 PM
I'm not saying I'd go to a rally, I'm saying I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. Hindsight's always 20-20, as they say.

in today's world, after seeing all we've seen by those in power in various institutions (catholic church, penn state) and organizations (wall street firms, enron) and government (where to begin???)...whenever something comes out now i assume the worst.

maybe that isn't fair. call me cynical. but it's as easy as connecting the dots. joe pa's assistant of 30 years, his best friend, is raping boys on campus and joe pa didn't know? this was obvious from day 1.

if anything ever happened at gonzaga, i would conclude either few knew what was happening or SHOULD have known.

kitzbuel
07-13-2012, 02:17 PM
I am pretty much always against punishing many for the faults of some. Even if the culture that enabled this, there were those that enabled the culture.

The Army has had to deal with a lot of similar issues (sexual assault and harassment) and approached it with a systemic campaign of education and harsh penalties against any caught violating regulations. Still lots of work to do but the issue is now in the open and commanders are required to prioritize enforcement.

I think penalties need to be linked to failure to change. Staff and administrators who do not toe the line need to be fired and fined.

gu03alum
07-13-2012, 04:04 PM
I am pretty much always against punishing many for the faults of some. Even if the culture that enabled this, there were those that enabled the culture.

The Army has had to deal with a lot of similar issues (sexual assault and harassment) and approached it with a systemic campaign of education and harsh penalties against any caught violating regulations. Still lots of work to do but the issue is now in the open and commanders are required to prioritize enforcement.

I think penalties need to be linked to failure to change. Staff and administrators who do not toe the line need to be fired and fined.

They hired a guy that used to work where I do to oversee the Clery Act at Penn State. It's a step in the right direction, but IMO it's too little too late.

Also, I understand your first point too, but that is how the NCAA operates. Reggie Bush and Pete Carroll were long gone before USC got punished. I don't think Penn State deserves to have a football team and I don't want any other school to give a coach this much power again.

Once and Future Zag
07-15-2012, 05:03 PM
If the institution chose to make their own students and alumni collateral damage by protecting a child-raper - then that's Penn State's problem, not the NCAA's.

gu03alum
07-23-2012, 05:25 AM
60 Million fine, 4 year bowl ban, vacate wins from 98-2011 (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8191027/penn-state-hit-60-million-fine-4-year-bowl-ban-wins-dating-1998)

This was not what I was calling for, but I think it is just as severe. I applaud the NCAA for doing the right thing and sending the message that college sports are not more important than the safety of a child.


"We cannot look to NCAA history to determine how to handle circumstances so disturbing, shocking and disappointing," Emmert said in the statement. "As the individuals charged with governing college sports, we have a responsibility to act. These events should serve as a call to every single school and athletics department to take an honest look at its campus environment and eradicate the 'sports are king' mindset that can so dramatically cloud the judgment of educators."

sittingon50
07-23-2012, 07:14 AM
I don't have any specific problems with this, but is the NCAA choosing their battles? What did they do recently with the Duke or Virginia lacrosse incidents?

RenoZag
07-23-2012, 07:53 AM
One of Deadspin's bloggers weighs in:


The next great college sports scandal isn't gonna be at Penn State. It'll be at some other school where the head coach still has too much power and the football program still makes too much money. There's no "stark wake-up call." The system is still f***d, and nothing the NCAA did today will do anything to change that. It only serves to extend the f****-upness a touch longer.

Among the many sick ironies of the Penn State saga is the fact that it was horrible enough to be considered by everyone a terrific anomaly. It wasn't. Sandusky's crime was, but the scandal that ensued was about concentrated power and institutional capture and all the s*itty things enabled by the durable belief that the goals of big-time sports and higher education are at all reconcilable.

The next great college sports scandal won't be about child rape. It'll be a different kind of awful. A school will get caught in a Bulgarian sex slave ring. A coach will turn out to be embezzling funds from AIDS babies. An AD will turn out to have ties to the Hezbollah. And whenever that new scandal happens, you can bet the NCAA will be there again, ready to put a band-aid on an amputated head.

http://deadspin.com/5928204?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

RenoZag
07-23-2012, 07:56 AM
What if all proceeds from football for the next 3 years went into a general fund for the victims.

Heard on the drive in to work this morning that $60 MM represents one year's revenue from Penn State football. . .

KStyles
07-23-2012, 09:18 AM
Heard on the drive in to work this morning that $60 MM represents one year's revenue from Penn State football. . .

Pretty close to it, over the past couple of years it seems. It'll be interesting to see what happens to their revenue in the upcoming seasons. I'd think it'd go back to levels similar to 2003-2007, with loss of JoePa, postseason play, inevitable transfers, and the scholarships, but time will tell. I found this infographic in an article in The Atlantic this morning.

http://i.imgur.com/9IW1s.png (http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/07/penn-states-fine-is-less-than-the-ncaa-wants-you-to-think/260185/?google_editors_picks=true)

ZagZombie
07-23-2012, 10:38 AM
Maybe someone can help me out. The NCAA came down very harsh on the penalties and did so very quickly. I was just wondering if anyone knows what is going on with Miami (FL) and their infractions from a lil while back involving Nevin Shapiro and his givings of improper benefits and such. Has the NCAA ruled anything on this matter or is the investigation still ongoing? It just seems so forgotten after much talk of a "Death Penalty" for the football program. Or maybe I just missed something.

Heard Penn State penalties were going to be worse than death penalty and wow I sure do think it is!

CDC84
07-23-2012, 10:55 AM
http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2012-07-23/penn-state-ncaa-penalties-sanctions-scholarships-reductions-mark-emmert

TSN article on why scholarship reductions are always a bad idea when it comes to handing out penalities at major sports schools. Doesn't matter how bad the transgression is. I can understand the point, because if you make the penalties stiffer in other areas, no elite players will want to play at a place like Penn State anyway, so they will be feeling the pain. But when you eliminate scholarships, that takes away free educational opportunities from kids who would normally not be good enough to play at PSU but who can now play there now due to the other sanctions which will damage recruiting.

rijman
07-23-2012, 08:22 PM
On top of all the penalties they will vacate over 100 wins!?! You have to be effing kidding me. I long for the days when the outcome of football games were settled on the field between players, coaches and refs. These days games are decided by family members who receive free rent and inactions of schools involving the actions on non employees. I can't wait for the end of college football games from now on when the announcers proclaim..."and at the end of the game Texas leads 24-17, please wait 5 years for the NCAA to investigate all players, coaches and players family members before the winner will be determined."

NJZag
07-24-2012, 08:59 PM
Interesting ...

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/163501446.html

Agree with LIZF that the punishment is directed at (mostly) the innocent and at a time when the culprits have departed the scene through copped plea, forced resignationS and in Paterno's case, terminal illness. Maybe the better solution would be to demand that Penn State fork over all revenues from football for a period of years consistent with the number of years that Sandusky is found to have been preying on child victims and steer those $$$ towards a victims' relief fund.

Another view ... PSU is a school first, and the next 10 years of dismal football performances and bowl bans will remind them of that.

http://www.newsday.com/opinion/oped/vaidhyanathan-penn-state-s-second-chance-1.3858087

How well did Freeh report serve the cause of due process, when it couldn't use subpoenas?

http://www.statecollege.com/news/local-news/freeh-report-cost-penn-state-65-million-lawyers-for-curley-schultz-respond-1089805/

Once and Future Zag
07-25-2012, 08:37 PM
Agree with LIZF that the punishment is directed at (mostly) the innocent and at a time when the culprits have departed the scene through copped plea, forced resignationS and in Paterno's case, terminal illness.


I disagree - the institution failed those raped children - the institution gets the punishment.

As I mentioned earlier, Penn State through their own willful actions put their own players, students, and alumni in this position, not the NCAA.

If I were a PSU student-athlete I'd be wondering when the school will throw me under the bus again for their own venal ends.

gu03alum
08-07-2012, 04:13 AM
Penn State Trustees Appeal NCAA and Vow Federal Lawsuit (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8240385/penn-state-nittany-lions-trustees-appeal-ncaa-vow-federal-lawsuit)

What a bunch of #####es. They are lucky they got the penalty they got. They need to shut up and go away. I don't think PSU deserves a football team at all.

RenoZag
11-20-2014, 06:28 PM
A new documentary, Happy Valley, is set for release this weekend. A take on the film can be found here:

http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/happy-valley-could-be-anywhere-and-thats-the-scariest-1661095750/+robharvilla

gu03alum
01-17-2015, 05:25 PM
It looks like JoePa is getting his victories back. I agree with Keith Olberman in the video below.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSBVO6rU57A

gu03alum
05-06-2016, 05:16 AM
Report: Joe Paterno was told about Jerry Sandusky sex abuse in 1976 (http://www.si.com/college-football/2016/05/05/penn-state-joe-paterno-jerry-sandusky-sex-abuse-1976)

CDC84
07-14-2016, 09:05 PM
http://www.csnbayarea.com/ncaa/fighting-over-money-penn-state-again-exhibits-staggering-vileness


"Those who believe Paterno was a sunglassed saint will always believe so for reasons of family, football or school loyalty." Ray Ratto