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View Full Version : Karnowski vs. Hoff



ID ZAGFAN
06-04-2012, 08:06 AM
http://live.fibaeurope.com/www/Game.aspx?acc=3&gameID=14200&lng=de

Germany is winning.
Hoff with 6 points, Karnowski with 11 points 2 rebounds in 3rd quarter.

Got this link from TSSF twitter.

ZaGranny

Update: Karnowski now has 13 points. You can follow the stats live at the link above.

ID ZAGFAN
06-04-2012, 08:31 AM
Hoff has 9 points, Karnowski still 13, with 4:45 left.

Germany 61 Poland 53

ZaGranny

jazzdelmar
06-04-2012, 08:32 AM
for relevance, wd this be equivalent to an average D1 game here in the states?

gamagin
06-04-2012, 08:39 AM
neat find !

LongIslandZagFan
06-04-2012, 08:50 AM
for relevance, wd this be equivalent to an average D1 game here in the states?

I'd say it would approach it. I'm not sure it would be top end D1, but middling to low end D1. But that is pretty much a WAG on my part.

ID ZAGFAN
06-04-2012, 08:58 AM
Germany 68 Poland 64

Hoff- 9 points Karnowski 13 points 3 rebounds

ZaGranny

KStyles
06-04-2012, 09:03 AM
for relevance, wd this be equivalent to an average D1 game here in the states?

Maybe a middle-tier D1 game. It is a FIBA Europe U20 Friendly. In the states it would be equivalent to a USA U20 team playing an international friendly, except for the fact that only FIBA Europe holds U20 competitions anymore. To give you an idea of what a 2012 US U20 team might sort of look like, here's the roster of the 2011 FIBA U19 World Championships team.(http://www.usabasketball.com/mens/u19/roster.html)

hooter73
06-04-2012, 09:47 AM
Any breakdown on Hoff's points? all 3's or did he drive or hit floaters... just wondering if during extended minutes his game expands.

Karn will have to rebound better than that in college but not bad stats for either of the GU boys.

BMAN
06-04-2012, 09:59 AM
hoff 3 for 5 from 3 pt. 60%

ZagFanInNC
06-04-2012, 10:00 AM
He was 3/5 from 3 and 0 for 0 in fg's. I really hope he RS's this year, I think he can be a real difference maker off of the bench when some time opens up.

Awesome link, thanks TSSF!

hooter73
06-04-2012, 10:04 AM
hoff 3 for 5 from 3 pt. 60%

great numbers and Im sorry to see them. He has GOT to do more than snipe from long range if he ever wants to really play in college or pro and we all know he can, he just doesnt.

ID ZAGFAN
06-04-2012, 10:04 AM
Hoff shot 3/5 3 pointers o 2 pointers. Karn shot 6 of 11 2 pointers no 3 pointers. Karn had 1 offensive and 2 defensive rebounds .

ZaGranny

ZagNative
06-04-2012, 11:26 AM
They play again tomorrow.

U Zig, I Zag
06-04-2012, 11:40 AM
If Hoff doesn't start putting it on the deck and going at the rim he will be sitting on his hands on the bench. I think he can do it. He has good height a good release. What's German for 'unleash the hounds!'?

jazzdelmar
06-04-2012, 12:21 PM
kinda odd how this thread became fixed on hoff, who is a no/never mind player for zags imo and may be leaving anyway, and not on the center of the future. why is that?

tlark420
06-04-2012, 12:29 PM
Why? Why not? Hoff is gonna be a 3rd year team member and I think I can speak for everyone when I say I want this kid to succeedd and I know he can do it

Karnowski has a bright future but hoffs time is running out to contribute

He's a good kid and I hope he stays and put it all together!

JPtheBeasta
06-04-2012, 12:44 PM
I tend to root for the underdog, which the Hoff has become. He also someone who I am familiar with and have more invested in. Karno comes in with high accolades and I assume he is going to do well (rightly or not). That said, for a potential one and done guy, I would expect his numbers to be better, but I have no idea how much PT he is getting or how he is being used. 3 rebounds is not very good, though.

ZAGGED OUT
06-04-2012, 12:48 PM
kinda odd how this thread became fixed on hoff, who is a no/never mind player for zags imo and may be leaving anyway, and not on the center of the future. why is that?

At a D1 level, there really isn't a "no/never mind player" imo. You need contributors all the way through to construct a deep a tourney run. The Zags have been a prime example of this, utilizing role players to great extents over the past decade plus.

Why are we stuck on Hoff? He provides great size and shooting at a position in which we are not particularly strong. As a frosh he shot 46% from range which is obviously impressive. At 6'7ish with such a great shot, Hoff is that player that has all the tools to put together an impressive skill set, yet he appears to lack confidence. I think most Zag fans are ready to see Hoff reach this potential and see him become a center part of the future when his Senior year rolls around. Just my two cents

jazzdelmar
06-04-2012, 12:55 PM
im not anti Hoff, i just think Karno holds the keys to a deep run down the road and as such shld be the focus of this thread. as for him being a one and done, thats a bit enthusiastic, dont u think? his 3 boards send out a "whistling thru the graveyard" vibe?

back to Hoff. too bad Few does not seem to hold him in as high regard as some of u. besides, wasnt he supp to be leaving?

ZAGGED OUT
06-04-2012, 01:31 PM
im not anti Hoff, i just think Karno holds the keys to a deep run down the road and as such shld be the focus of this thread. as for him being a one and done, thats a bit enthusiastic, dont u think? his 3 boards send out a "whistling thru the graveyard" vibe?

back to Hoff. too bad Few does not seem to hold him in as high regard as some of u. besides, wasnt he supp to be leaving?

Just want to start by saying I'm not calling you anti-hoff by any means, I see where your coming from. I think that Karno is being seen as a possible 1 and done due to the fact he was debating skipping college already to go to the pros. Things may change and he may see he needs more time but it's known the NBA is already a thought in his head. I'll agree though, I'd like to see more than 3 boards.

On Hoff, I don't think anything ever came up about him leaving. I think a rumor got blown up like it often does on the boards, I just haven't seen any concrete evidence listing him as a poss. transfer. I think Few uses Hoff accordingly with his current skill set, us posters just have high hopes for what his game COULD be.

ZagaZags
06-04-2012, 01:43 PM
I want Monninghoff to be our Clint Steindl. Clint had some nice stats. 42-3pt % , 94 FT% and 7.9 ppg. Clint was an Assassin on the court.

jazzdelmar
06-04-2012, 01:49 PM
I want Monninghoff to be our Clint Steindl. Clint had some nice stats. 42-3pt % , 94 FT% and 7.9 ppg. Clint was an Assassin on the court.

steindl was a lot higher in randy's rotation than mm has ever been in Few's. seemed a bit quicker and deadlier. also taller, no? he was a wiry 6-7. mm is closer to 6-6. dont see the comparison.

ZAGGED OUT
06-04-2012, 01:57 PM
steindl was a lot higher in randy's rotation than mm has ever been in Few's. seemed a bit quicker and deadlier. also taller, no? he was a wiry 6-7. mm is closer to 6-6. dont see the comparison.

Monninghoff is listed everywhere as 6-7, steindl had 6 pounds on him, so almost identical frames. Also, Steindl never had a season where he shot the 3 as good as Hoff's freshman year (46% Hoff's freshman year, Steindl never got over 42%). Neither Steindl or Hoff are freak athletes but I would never say that Steind was far and away deadlier. Very similar players imo

ZagaZags
06-04-2012, 02:05 PM
steindl was a lot higher in randy's rotation than mm has ever been in Few's. seemed a bit quicker and deadlier. also taller, no? he was a wiry 6-7. mm is closer to 6-6. dont see the comparison.

Clint Steindl is 6' 7 and Monninghoff is 6' 7
Clint Stiendl is 195 lbs and Monninghoff is 189 lbs
Clint Stiendl plays the 3, SF position and so does Monninghoff.
Clint Stiendle was a senior and Monninghoff was a sophmore.

I guess you must think this is as good as it is going to get for Monninghoff. Maybe he should just go pro. But i do see the comparison.

jazzdelmar
06-04-2012, 02:05 PM
Monninghoff is listed everywhere as 6-7, steindl had 6 pounds on him, so almost identical frames. Also, Steindl never had a season where he shot the 3 as good as Hoff's freshman year (46% Hoff's freshman year, Steindl never got over 42%). Neither Steindl or Hoff are freak athletes but I would never say that Steind was far and away deadlier. Very similar players imo


ok. attribute the results to having the coach's confidence then.

ZAGGED OUT
06-04-2012, 02:20 PM
That's exactly what it's attributed to (or lack of viable options for SMC). Hoff's stellar freshman #'s were next to 13.4 mpg and his lower Sophmore #'s were accompanied by 5.8 mpg. Shooters need time and repetition to find their grooves. Its hard to ask a specialist to come in off the bench after not moving all game and hit 3/4 shots. Steindl had 20+ mpg from his sophmore season on so he was definitely much more in the flow of the game at all times.

ZagaZags
06-04-2012, 02:48 PM
Was a sophmore and Clint was a senior. Are you saying that Monninghoff can never be at the level of Stiendl in 2 years when he is a senior?

JPtheBeasta
06-04-2012, 06:06 PM
I truly think that the Hoff would have produced for us offensively last year if he had been given more minutes. I don't question the use of Edi or Hart, and think it speaks mostly to depth and a preference by Few and Co for rebounding and defense at the 3 spot last year .

It will be interesting to see how Karno and Hoff play tomorrow.

ZagNative
06-05-2012, 09:10 AM
Doesn't look like Mathis is on the roster today. Stats here (http://live.fibaeurope.com/www/Game.aspx?acc=3&gameID=14201&lng=de).

cjm720
06-05-2012, 09:40 AM
I truly think that the Hoff would have produced for us offensively last year if he had been given more minutes. I don't question the use of Edi or Hart, and think it speaks mostly to depth and a preference by Few and Co for rebounding and defense at the 3 spot last year .

It will be interesting to see how Karno and Hoff play tomorrow.

Hoff's a one trick pony offense and he hasn't changed much. Until he does, I expect limited minutes. He definitely has the potential though!

ZagFanInNC
06-05-2012, 11:26 AM
The question is what is the deal with Karn's teammate Michal Michalak. He played in the 2012 Nike Hoops Summit and scored 15 and 3 yesterday/ 18, 4 and 2 today.

Anyone know if he is going to play college ball or just play professionally in Europe?

KStyles
06-05-2012, 12:15 PM
The question is what is the deal with Karn's teammate Michal Michalak. He played in the 2012 Nike Hoops Summit and scored 15 and 3 yesterday/ 18, 4 and 2 today.

Anyone know if he is going to play college ball or just play professionally in Europe?


No idea, but I found this interview with him from last month:



"My dream, just like every basketball player I think, is to play in NBA one day. For the next future, I would like to have the opportunity to play and develop my skills in a good European team".

Doesn't mean he couldn't go NCAA (and I'm sure colleges are aware of him), as he does mention that he wants to graduate from University, but thinks it'll be tough with his basketball dreams.

http://www.sportando.net/eng/europe/poland/38496/michal-michalak-studying-and-waiting-for-the-future-dreaming-nba.html