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bigblahla
05-17-2012, 04:25 AM
Zags add a very good big to the team for the class of 2012.

Does anyone here have thoughts on how a team positioned in the national spotlight such as GU comes up empty in recruiting at least one US high school senior from the class of 2012.

Honestly, I'm flabbergasted. Regardless of wins and losses and years in a row in the Dance to come up empty handed says something isn't right in our recruiting process.

I have my opinion but would like to read the thoughts of others here on the subject.

I do not share the opinion we are so loaded we didn't need anyone else or we are so loaded no one wanted to come to GU because they wouldn't get floor time. We always need to keep the pipeline flowing and athletes thrive on competition.

What say ye Zaggies do we have recruiting issues right here in river city?

Go!! Zags!!!

Zagcity
05-17-2012, 05:33 AM
Last year was a total Bullseye, so some may think like you, but I am not so quick to cast that net. Especially after getting the main recruit they wanted this year. Things are looking up :)

CanadianZagFan
05-17-2012, 05:37 AM
With a very solid class last year and one of those players redshirting, I feel that the team is getting a solid wing layer in Draginis for 2012/13

Zagdawg
05-17-2012, 06:10 AM
The Zags will be fine -- everything happens for a reason.

I'm not in the camp that says we should just bring kids in because we have open schollys-- get the right pieces and it makes sense.

If we just put bodies in the scholly-- they don't get the playing time because there are 3-4 guys in front of them on the bench and they transfer.

Few is doing fine...looking for the right fit at the right position.

Birddog
05-17-2012, 06:10 AM
A couple things working here. 1st, Spangler's transfer was a complete surprise to the staff. Keita's transfer probably not so much and I don't recall seeing anything official about that anyway. Those transfers put GU in a bind in that they occurred late in the recruiting year. I'm of the opinion that the staff is better off leaving the spot open if it means just another warm body on the bench. I still think some sort of surprise is in the works before it's over.

jpwils
05-17-2012, 06:34 AM
An International guy visited with family - can't this type of guy wait and sign right up to the beginning of school??

Could the International guy be waiting on a series of events- say, like to see what other offers trickle in and who stays and who goes??

Not saying it was this scenario but just putting up a hypothetical case....

cggonzaga
05-17-2012, 07:04 AM
A couple things working here. 1st, Spangler's transfer was a complete surprise to the staff. Keita's transfer probably not so much and I don't recall seeing anything official about that anyway. Those transfers put GU in a bind in that they occurred late in the recruiting year. I'm of the opinion that the staff is better off leaving the spot open if it means just another warm body on the bench. I still think some sort of surprise is in the works before it's over.


I don't agree with this line of thinking. Yes, the Spangler transfer was surprising but my guess is if he's still here there is no Karno. So numbers wise we're in the same predicament. I think we all knew, staff included, Keita was gone at the end of the season.

People are concerned with the "just another warm body" argument. With only 11 guys on the team right now we absolutely need some warm bodies on the bench. Practicing with 11 guys becomes very difficult especially if one or two guys are nursing injuries. Like discussed in previous threads I think GU needs to recruit 1-2 local kids with potential that would be thrilled to play here even if it meant sitting on the bench for a couple seasons. I'm not concerned with the talent on the team rather having enough guys to practice with and having a little bit of depth should 1 or 2 guys get injured.

BroncoZAG615
05-17-2012, 07:07 AM
Zags add a very good big to the team for the class of 2012.

Does anyone here have thoughts on how a team positioned in the national spotlight such as GU comes up empty in recruiting at least one US high school senior from the class of 2012.

Honestly, I'm flabbergasted. Regardless of wins and losses and years in a row in the Dance to come up empty handed says something isn't right in our recruiting process.

I have my opinion but would like to read the thoughts of others here on the subject.

I do not share the opinion we are so loaded we didn't need anyone else or we are so loaded no one wanted to come to GU because they wouldn't get floor time. We always need to keep the pipeline flowing and athletes thrive on competition.

What say ye Zaggies do we have recruiting issues right here in river city?

Go!! Zags!!!

I love how we just landed a player which many analysts say would be a top 10 prospect in the states and threads like these surface. Tommy Lloyd is likely getting a solid chuckle if he happened to run across this.

The 2012 class has been so well documented. First, there was the Skylar Spencer and Richard Longrus' of the world. Donny Daniels was hot on their trail with Spencer even saying that the Zags were his favorite and that he would likely commit when he visited. Unfortunately, Spencer struggled last summer and didn't accumulate the additional offers that many thought he would. The Zags cooled and Spencer went elsewhere.

The only 'bummer' of the 2012 class is that the Zags couldn't land Demarquise Johnson. I don't pretend to know exactly what happened in his recruitment but he went from loving Gonzaga and then we had a couple months of silence and then it picked up again. Unfortunately, he had a buddy going to WSU and chose the Cougs. He would have been an ideal fit on this team as a scoring wing. Him and Dranginis would have been a blast to watch but you have to wonder if he looked at the current GU backcourt and saw more playing time in Pullman.

It is my opinion that the recruiting process is just fine but I would love to hear the opinion you have on the topic. Donny Daniels and Ray Giacoletti have been on the trail this spring and are in the ear of a number of top west coast prospects in the 2013, 2014, and even 2015 class.

thebigsmoove
05-17-2012, 07:15 AM
I love how we just landed a player which many analysts say would be a top 10 prospect in the states and threads like these surface. Tommy Lloyd is likely getting a solid chuckle if he happened to run across this.

The 2012 class has been so well documented. First, there was the Skylar Spencer and Richard Longrus' of the world. Donny Daniels was hot on their trail with Spencer even saying that the Zags were his favorite and that he would likely commit when he visited. Unfortunately, Spencer struggled last summer and didn't accumulate the additional offers that many thought he would. The Zags cooled and Spencer went elsewhere.

The only 'bummer' of the 2012 class is that the Zags couldn't land Demarquise Johnson. I don't pretend to know exactly what happened in his recruitment but he went from loving Gonzaga and then we had a couple months of silence and then it picked up again. Unfortunately, he had a buddy going to WSU and chose the Cougs. He would have been an ideal fit on this team as a scoring wing. Him and Dranginis would have been a blast to watch but you have to wonder if he looked at the current GU backcourt and saw more playing time in Pullman.

It is my opinion that the recruiting process is just fine but I would love to hear the opinion you have on the topic. Donny Daniels and Ray Giacoletti have been on the trail this spring and are in the ear of a number of top west coast prospects in the 2013, 2014, and even 2015 class.

+1

DCZag
05-17-2012, 07:21 AM
I remember several conversations like this about 3 years ago - and bingo! In walks EH. That worked out pretty good I'd say.

I'm not running with scissors yet, it will shake out over time. I'm of the belief that the staff has a plan and it'll all be clear soon enough. We're already in with a commit for '13.

I'm thinking that Dranginis and Sarbaugh may be better than most here suspect and that the staff is comfortable with where they are.

Pangos, Bell, Guy, Stocks, Elias, Kelly, Sam, Drang, Sarbaugh, Karnowski, Mathis, Hart. Pretty good roster to me. And room to grow if the right opportunities present themselves.

cjm720
05-17-2012, 07:28 AM
Three kids coming off redshirts is a class right there.

thebigsmoove
05-17-2012, 07:30 AM
I remember several conversations like this about 3 years ago - and bingo! In walks EH. That worked out pretty good I'd say.

I'm not running with scissors yet, it will shake out over time. I'm of the belief that the staff has a plan and it'll all be clear soon enough. We're already in with a commit for '13.

I'm thinking that Dranginis and Sarbaugh may be better than most here suspect and that the staff is comfortable with where they are.

Pangos, Bell, Guy, Stocks, Elias, Kelly, Sam, Drang, Sarbaugh, Karnowski, Mathis, Hart. Pretty good roster to me. And room to grow if the right opportunities present themselves.

The Panic is comical, no way a team like that is weak...

hooter73
05-17-2012, 07:34 AM
best non recruiting class ever imo. We need absolutely no one and the prospects out there were not going to be just right. Save the scolies fro next year when there are better recruits who fit our up coming needs.

Birddog
05-17-2012, 07:42 AM
Present team members
1. Pangos
2. Bell
3. Dranginis
4. Edi
5. Hart
6. Stockton
7. Dower
8. Harris
9. Olynyk
10. Karno
11.Sarbaugh
12. Hoff*
13. Keita **
* Some say might leave (based on what?)
** rumored to be leaving (nothing official yet AFAIK)
It could end up just 2 spots short of 13 allowable (Sarbaugh doesn't count) but still with 12 players.

JPtheBeasta
05-17-2012, 07:49 AM
Kids want to play right away, and the only spot that someone has a reasonable chance of getting significant minutes is the 3 spot, unless he is a major blue chip talent. This team is crowded, and we had people balking at Karnowski for this reason. We got the guy we wanted in PK to fill our biggest area of need. I'd call that a success. It would be nice to have one more scorer at the guard spot and another at the wing to protect against injuries, but we'll be ok.

titopoet
05-17-2012, 08:34 AM
What we lost from last years team was a great center, a good wing, a good big with potential to be great and bench support. What we are gaining is a two very good bigs, with a lot of potential to be great, an unproven wing who sounds good, and possible good bench support in PG (three of those red shirts. We have enough in terms of practice players, heck Pendo can suit up and mix it up, if need be. The reality is that they reloaded on what they lost. Only time will tell if this players will have the same impact as the ones that left.

The key was to fill the holes that were emptied by graduation and transfer. Since, that happen, 2012 recruiting was a success. By the way, our recruit for 2012 landed on the front page of Jeff Eisenberg's the Dagger. (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger-college-basketball-blog/gonzaga-lands-poland-przemek-karnowski-7-foot-mcdonald-223142615.html) When was the last time a GU commit landed on the Dagger's front page? Gary Bell Jr.

GU got what they needed from the recruiting trail, and the got their biggest target, Karno.

kitzbuel
05-17-2012, 08:39 AM
Zags add a very good big to the team for the class of 2012.

Does anyone here have thoughts on how a team positioned in the national spotlight such as GU comes up empty in recruiting at least one US high school senior from the class of 2012.

Honestly, I'm flabbergasted. Regardless of wins and losses and years in a row in the Dance to come up empty handed says something isn't right in our recruiting process.

I have my opinion but would like to read the thoughts of others here on the subject.

I do not share the opinion we are so loaded we didn't need anyone else or we are so loaded no one wanted to come to GU because they wouldn't get floor time. We always need to keep the pipeline flowing and athletes thrive on competition.

What say ye Zaggies do we have recruiting issues right here in river city?

Go!! Zags!!!
If I held up my left hand with nothing and held up my right hand with Karnowski in it, my right hand would probably not feel empty. It would probably feel squished.

75Zag
05-17-2012, 08:43 AM
I am happy to respect the work of the staff and wait and see what happens next. I do continue to be totally baffled by GU's inability to land Scout/Rival Top 100 kids. If GU is universally acknowledged as a top 20 team, and if there are 100 Scout/Rivals Top 100 kids, seems like 100 kids divided by 20 top 20 schools should yield 3 or 4 or 5 Scout/Rivals kids per year for GU to choose from. But reality is that there are pretty much -0- top 100 kids for GU to choose from. I know Day was ranked and I think I recall that Bell was ranked, but otherwise, not so much.

I know there are ranking systems outside Scout/Rivals, and I know that GU tends to recruit from the far corners of the earth where not everybody speaks English or is ranked, but just from the standpoint of mathematics, why don't we regularly get our 3 - 4- 5 Scout/Rivals Top 100 kids? Is it possible that the kids and their AAU coaches and mentors and shoe company advisors don't believe GU is a legitimate top 20 team???? Is that the reason? I am beginning to suspect that is the problem. Maybe we have become a legend in our own minds but not in the minds of potential recruits? That would be a very bad thing.

sittingon50
05-17-2012, 08:50 AM
1. Kelly Olynyk (JR) 7'0" (look at him like a JC but with 3 years of practice).
2. Kyle Dranginis (FR)- 2 time State POY (& a year of practice).
3. Chris Sarbaugh (FR)-MVP of 4A State Tourney (& a year of practice).
4. P.Karno (FR)- Top prospect for his class in Europe.


I don't know about most of you but I look at that and think the Zags are adding a helluva recruiting class.

BroncoZAG615
05-17-2012, 08:54 AM
I am happy to respect the work of the staff and wait and see what happens next. I do continue to be totally baffled by GU's inability to land Scout/Rival Top 100 kids. If GU is universally acknowledged as a top 20 team, and if there are 100 Scout/Rivals Top 100 kids, seems like 100 kids divided by 20 top 20 schools should yield 3 or 4 or 5 Scout/Rivals kids per year for GU to choose from. But reality is that there are pretty much -0- top 100 kids for GU to choose from. I know Day was ranked and I think I recall that Bell was ranked, but otherwise, not so much.

I know there are ranking systems outside Scout/Rivals, and I know that GU tends to recruit from the far corners of the earth where not everybody speaks English or is ranked, but just from the standpoint of mathematics, why don't we regularly get our 3 - 4- 5 Scout/Rivals Top 100 kids? Is it possible that the kids and their AAU coaches and mentors and shoe company advisors don't believe GU is a legitimate top 20 team???? Is that the reason? I am beginning to suspect that is the problem. Maybe we have become a legend in our own minds but not in the minds of potential recruits? That would be a very bad thing.

Daye, Bouldin, Gray, Sacre, Bell were all four/five star guys by the services
Gibbs, Heytvelt, Pendo, and Pargo were all Rivals 150 guys

Please, please don't forget the importance of a fertile recruiting territory in all this. Gonzaga has no direct pipeline to any consistently talented pool of kids. Its not like California schools, Texas schools, Maryland, and other East Coast schools. GU, for the most part, has to fend off BCS schools AND 'the hometown school' when they recruit guys. Sure we occasionally get a Seattle kid here and there but those kids are often times raised on the PAC-12.

The staff really has their work cut out for them because of this which is why you see them going international so often.

jpwils
05-17-2012, 08:55 AM
Most top 100 kids want to play in Big East, ACC, SEC, or in the past Big 10,
Pac-12, etc.

Then it comes down to geography and TV exposure and especially, PLAYING TIME. Also does the program have a track record of players making it in the NBA?

Not saying we do or don't offer these things...certainly Turiauf has made it
certainly Stockton was a huge star.

But expecting kids from Philly to come to Spokane is unrealistic.

We are top 25 for sure and should be getting more kids from Northwest or West Coast.

But our roster is crowded for minutes and very few kids want to wait 2 years nowadays.

We are lucky that KO redshirted last year. Dranginis and Sarbaugh are really redshirt frosh who will immediately make our team stronger.

Looks like we could hold on to up to 2 scholarships this year with another 3 scholarships to give next year which equals a chance for a robust group in 2013!

Let's see how things shake out! Looks like a very interesting season along with some great prospects for recruiting.

SweetOnionZag
05-17-2012, 08:56 AM
Three kids coming off redshirts is a class right there.

Be careful 720. Your comment makes too much sense.....It will cause all of those smarter than our coaching staff to stop posting here.

roxdoc
05-17-2012, 09:02 AM
In the last few years we have been mostly top-32 in the dance. Don't have numbers for the final polls for say the last 4 years - anybody? Just sayin...

U Zig, I Zag
05-17-2012, 09:15 AM
The guys coming of RS are WAY better values than bringing in a super-stud that won't be happy with PT. I am all for bringing on better players and I am in agreement with the folks that say the best players should play the most minutes - but frankly, KO is practically a reboot. I consider him a JC transfer that just happens to have hung out with the team/coaches (and played!) for one year. You can't beat that. Zero learning curve.

Sar and Kyle will get their PT, they know the system. Kyle in particular will be NEEDED to spell minutes for a few guys. Again, a year with the team under their belts.

Bring on new blood, that's how it works in college ball - but I feel we are in really good shape. The one spot we dropped (trad. center) we got back in the form of a Euro that EVERYONE AND THEIR DOG wanted. Coaches have knocked it out of the park the last 2 years as far as I am concerned.

cggonzaga
05-17-2012, 09:15 AM
1. Pangos
2. Bell
3. Dranginis
4. Edi
5. Hart
6. Stockton
7. Dower
8. Harris
9. Olynyk
10. Karno
11.Sarbaugh
12. Hoff*
13. Keita **


First, I thought there was an announcement on Keita leaving. Second, BZ has given numerous indications that both Hoff and Sarbaugh "could" be leaving. Are you still comfortable with a roster of 10?

I think Blah is being unfairly criticized in this thread. He never said what we have isn't great. The numbers are just way down from normal. I also agree with the sentiment that we couldn't nab 1 high school senior? He never said however that the kid had to be a top 100 prospect. We just need some numbers at this point. I'm sure there are plenty of kids that ended up at mid majors that would've jumped at the chance at playing at Gonzaga even if it meant sitting on the bench. Not every kid we recruit has to be a star. That's partially why I really like the Luke Mieckle (sp?) verbal. The kid has potential but more than anything he wants to be at GU and seems to understand there may not be playing time in the near future.

MickMick
05-17-2012, 09:18 AM
scholarships like candy. That is how you get the Grant Gibbs of the world.

First and foremost:

They have to be good enough

OR

They have to accept their role.

If no one meets criteria one, then you fill in with criteria two.

CDC84
05-17-2012, 09:18 AM
We keep saying this, but Gonzaga was recruiting Karnowski well before the GU staff even knew who Ryan Spangler was. Moreover, Spangler is a power forward and Karno a center. They play completely different positions and are completely different players. They didn't recruit over Spangler. He was being groomed to be Elias Harris' replacement and was not likely to see much PT until Harris' departure....even if Karno had chosen another school. Ryan was severely homesick and he wanted out of here due to that reason, period. He should have never committed to Gonzaga. It was a mistake on his end. The Gonzaga staff really, really wanted him to stay here. But people will continue to believe what they want to believe.

I am in agreement with BroncoZag615. Most everything is good, and the only void on the roster right now is the small forward position. That position was supposed to belong to Demarquise Johnson, but it didn't pan out. Then it was supposed to go to Trent Lockett, but things with his Mom got even worse after he announced his transfer from ASU. On top of all this, Monninghoff has been slow in the development department.

My hope is that Monninghoff sticks it out and gets better. I would much rather have Monninghoff out there than some four year high school player who isn't good enough and who will likely be looking for a new school once Gonzaga starts filling up scholarships with better players.

I also continue to feel that we are going to be seeing Elias Harris play SOME at small forward this year to free up more playing time for the other big men and to enable Dranginis to play more at the 1 and 2 where the Zags really need him. They desperately need a big guard in the rotation who can score, pass and take care of the basketball.

titopoet
05-17-2012, 09:20 AM
I am happy to respect the work of the staff and wait and see what happens next. I do continue to be totally baffled by GU's inability to land Scout/Rival Top 100 kids. If GU is universally acknowledged as a top 20 team, and if there are 100 Scout/Rivals Top 100 kids, seems like 100 kids divided by 20 top 20 schools should yield 3 or 4 or 5 Scout/Rivals kids per year for GU to choose from. But reality is that there are pretty much -0- top 100 kids for GU to choose from. I know Day was ranked and I think I recall that Bell was ranked, but otherwise, not so much.

I know there are ranking systems outside Scout/Rivals, and I know that GU tends to recruit from the far corners of the earth where not everybody speaks English or is ranked, but just from the standpoint of mathematics, why don't we regularly get our 3 - 4- 5 Scout/Rivals Top 100 kids? Is it possible that the kids and their AAU coaches and mentors and shoe company advisors don't believe GU is a legitimate top 20 team???? Is that the reason? I am beginning to suspect that is the problem. Maybe we have become a legend in our own minds but not in the minds of potential recruits? That would be a very bad thing.

I know a few people have posted on the Nerlens Noel. But the original NY times investigating piece is really frightening look at the world of top US talent. (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/11/sports/ncaabasketball/everybody-wants-a-piece-of-nerlens-noel.html?pagewanted=all)
It maybe that Few and Co don't want to sink to that level and going after the kids that Duke tries for is too much for GU. It maybe the AAU coaches, handlers and shoe companies don't think GU offers as much opportunities for mulla that other programs do. So, GU goes after the best talent it can without dealing with the Devil. GU is not Duke or other programs that do it both clean and get top talent. If you don't want to do it dirty, they may have to go off shore to do so.

75Zag
05-17-2012, 09:23 AM
. . . Coaches have knocked it out of the park the last 2 years as far as I am concerned.

My expectations are not all that high, but losing in the Round of 32 is not what I consider "knocking it out of the park". Kentucky knocked it out of the park in 2012. I am hoping GU knocks it out of the park in 2013. I assume the subject of this thread is whether GU has sufficent talent to beat the elite schools. I remain skeptical, but I hope for the best.

Hogan
05-17-2012, 09:24 AM
I share the recruiting concern, although I'm still hoping for a nice surprise in 2012.It just doesn't seem like we can follow up one good recruiting class with another.And of course you can't have it both ways. If you want to consider Dranginis and Sarbaugh in this years class ,then the 2011 class looks pretty skinny.The concern isn't really this coming year but thereafter.

pbriz
05-17-2012, 09:27 AM
scholarships like candy. That is how you get the Grant Gibbs of the world.

First and foremost:

They have to be good enough

OR

They have to accept their role.

If no one meets criteria one, then you fill in with criteria two.

I see your point but need to step in and defend Grant Gibbs for a second. The kid was on a team that went as far as we did in the tourney, played 30 mpg, and averaged 7ppg, 5 rpg, and 5 apg. Not eye popping in terms of points but he fills up the stat sheet.

Birddog
05-17-2012, 09:32 AM
Gibbs is a bad example, he could have played. Diallo or that kid from Maine would have been better examples.

I think the so-called shortage of scholarship players might have something to do with the Mayan Calendar.

CDC84
05-17-2012, 09:32 AM
Unlike some of GU's most recent transfers, Grant Gibbs picked the perfect school to transfer to. I think that has had as much to do with his success as anything else. I just don't think Grant would've ever played as much at GU as he is playing right now at Creighton. Due to all of his injuries, he is severely limited in what he can do on the basketball floor, but Creighton is able to use him in unique ways that work well within their system. Grant always had a high basketball IQ and a fierce competitive spirit.

Martin Centre Mad Man
05-17-2012, 09:38 AM
That is how you get the Grant Gibbs of the world.



The staff has offered to far less-promising players than Grant Gibbs. Grant Gibbs was rated as a Top-150 player. He never played much at Gonzaga, but he was hurt for much of his time in Spokane. His potential appears to have been validated by his performance for a Top-40 Creighton team.

ZagsObserver
05-17-2012, 09:50 AM
Gibbs had the unfortunate luck of playing behind the immovable Goodson. Few went with the known commodity regardless of the result, and this put the man with the higher ceiling (Gibbs) on the bench. This was most unfortunate seeing as how that was the weak spot on the roster.

pbriz
05-17-2012, 10:17 AM
Gibbs is a bad example, he could have played. Diallo or that kid from Maine would have been better examples.

I think the so-called shortage of scholarship players might have something to do with the Mayan Calendar.

I totally agree with this. Hyland was a last minute 'might as well sign him' player that was both bad for Gonzaga as well as Hyland.

I am so happy to get one very good player in Karnowski than add two mediocre players that won't play and won't be happy. Might as well save the schollies for a mid-season transfer because they will undoubtedly happen.

75Zag
05-17-2012, 10:49 AM
Gibbs may have been a great recruit, and Abe Lincoln may have been a great President. But on my floor I am surrounded by people from Kansas and Duke and Nebraska and Washington and Cal and Wisconsin (and Harvard) who want to talk about 2012 recruiting classes, not what happened 3 or 10 or 100 years ago. The mysterious Big Pole is not seeming to gain much traction on an elite national recruiting level. Has Rivals or Scout ranked the GU 2012 recruiting class? Did the Big Pole move us to the top 20 recruiting class? The only thing that keeps me from doing serious bodily harm to my office neighbor from Kansas is to explain how GU is better than Kansas. This morning I have heard all about KU's signing of a 5 star, a 4 star and two 3 stars plus some other kid. I told him GU is keeping its options open for better alternatives. I need help defending GU, please!

NotoriousZ
05-17-2012, 10:51 AM
I'm really hoping Draginis gets the nod at the small forward spot. I just don't see enough time available backing up Bell and Pangos, with Stocks also getting minutes.

I still think Edi starts, and I think he's going to be great now that he's knows more of the system. But if Kyle lives up to what we've been hearing about him in practices and pick up games, he could be the guy (pun intended). Anyway Edi, Drangs, Hart (and Hoff--hoping he stays) should have the SF position covered. And if they want to throw Harris in there for spots, that'll work too.

Even if we're only playing 11 players, we'll still have problems getting playing time for everyone. Just don't see the problem if we don't get another player right now.

Hold out for next year unless there's a can't miss player to be had. My $.02

U Zig, I Zag
05-17-2012, 11:31 AM
My expectations are not all that high, but losing in the Round of 32 is not what I consider "knocking it out of the park". Kentucky knocked it out of the park in 2012. I am hoping GU knocks it out of the park in 2013. I assume the subject of this thread is whether GU has sufficent talent to beat the elite schools. I remain skeptical, but I hope for the best.

I don't know if we have gone all blue-chip on it - but given how some teams seem to come and go, holding steady like we have is alright by me. I think Karno, though not an elite athlete like some, is blue-chip - the demand for him got high enough towards the end.

I too am disappointed with the performance in the tourney but I was actually referring to the last two years of bringing kids in. Pangos, GBJ, etc are the start of something good.

Birddog
05-17-2012, 11:36 AM
But on my floor I am surrounded by people from Kansas and Duke and Nebraska and Washington and Cal and Wisconsin (and Harvard) who want to talk about 2012 recruiting classes, not what happened 3 or 10 or 100 years ago.
Change floors. If we did recruit and sign 5* recruits they would mysteriously become 4* and 3* recruits after signing.

BroncoZAG615
05-17-2012, 11:38 AM
Gibbs may have been a great recruit, and Abe Lincoln may have been a great President. But on my floor I am surrounded by people from Kansas and Duke and Nebraska and Washington and Cal and Wisconsin (and Harvard) who want to talk about 2012 recruiting classes, not what happened 3 or 10 or 100 years ago. The mysterious Big Pole is not seeming to gain much traction on an elite national recruiting level. Has Rivals or Scout ranked the GU 2012 recruiting class? Did the Big Pole move us to the top 20 recruiting class? The only thing that keeps me from doing serious bodily harm to my office neighbor from Kansas is to explain how GU is better than Kansas. This morning I have heard all about KU's signing of a 5 star, a 4 star and two 3 stars plus some other kid. I told him GU is keeping its options open for better alternatives. I need help defending GU, please!

I'll help you out and provide you with a quick reality check.

In your lifetime and in my lifetime and likely until the end of the world, Gonzaga will NEVER have recruiting bragging rights that consistently compare to Kansas or Duke.

Zagdawg
05-17-2012, 11:39 AM
75-- I feel bad that you can't get a good recruiting argument going with your co-workers--- but you ...like the Zags in the coming year will be just fine.

Step back from the edge...the sun will still rise...you will be just fine.

Martin Centre Mad Man
05-17-2012, 11:41 AM
The only thing that keeps me from doing serious bodily harm to my office neighbor from Kansas is to explain how GU is better than Kansas. This morning I have heard all about KU's signing of a 5 star, a 4 star and two 3 stars plus some other kid. I told him GU is keeping its options open for better alternatives. I need help defending GU, please!

Tell him that he left Kansas for a reason - it's in friggin' Kansas!!! That's what I had to say when I had the pleasure of mentoring a hotshot young trial attorney from the twisters and Totos state.

maynard g krebs
05-17-2012, 11:47 AM
If GU is universally acknowledged as a top 20 team, and if there are 100 Scout/Rivals Top 100 kids, seems like 100 kids divided by 20 top 20 schools should yield 3 or 4 or 5 Scout/Rivals kids per year for GU to choose from.

I know there are ranking systems outside Scout/Rivals, and I know that GU tends to recruit from the far corners of the earth where not everybody speaks English or is ranked, but just from the standpoint of mathematics, why don't we regularly get our 3 - 4- 5 Scout/Rivals Top 100 kids?

You started this with a false assumption; i.e., that the top 100 kids all go to the top 20 programs. This is simply untrue. A bunch of them go to lesser programs, for various reasons; close to home, opportunity for early playing time, fit/style of play, they like the coaches, etc. The marquee traditional powers will get 3 or 4 (seldom 5), but that's a handful of schools, not the whole top 20.

Add the obvious fact that a lot of the top 100 are going BCS no matter what, and it should become clear that your premise is really unrealistic. That's why foreign recruiting is so important to schools in midmajors given the current landscape.

75Zag
05-17-2012, 11:47 AM
Change floors. If we did recruit and sign 5* recruits they would mysteriously become 4* and 3* recruits after signing.

Supposedly I am the "man" who hires and fires so it might be difficult to run away and I am at the top floor of the building overlooking the Columbia River, but I will continue to try. Meanwhile, I hate "the man". My frustration is about Kansas. It is in the middle of the white old guy world but they get fantasic Top 100 players. I know Spokane and Idaho have had recent Cross Burning issues like this

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2012/05/09/20120509idaho-sheriff-candidate-hosts-cross-burning.html

but hopefully the GU vibe of love and peace can overcome all that crap.

If you were a Top 100 kid considering Spokane or Memphis, would you make cross burnings a high priority issue? I am a very old white guy so I have no idea.

Zagdawg
05-17-2012, 12:05 PM
If you are doing the hiring....you should be able to surround yourself with "like-minded" Zag fans without any issues.

You can also hire a UW alum so that everyone can pick on them. :)

Birddog
05-17-2012, 12:07 PM
If you were a Top 100 kid considering Spokane or Memphis, would you make cross burnings a high priority issue? I am a very old white guy so I have no idea.
If you were a PSA it might not be considered. If you were the parent of the PSA then this might sway you in favor of Spokane. http://www.morganquitno.com/cit05pop.htm

75Zag
05-17-2012, 12:10 PM
If you are doing the hiring....you should be able to surround yourself with "like-minded" Zag fans without any issues.

You can also hire a UW alum so that everyone can pick on them. :)

I am a UW Law School alum, so your argument lacks a bit of something, but I hire as many GU law school grads as I can, including our last several hires, who seem to be very well educated kids.

Cheers!

tinfoilzag
05-17-2012, 12:23 PM
Supposedly I am the "man" who hires and fires so it might be difficult to run away and I am at the top floor of the building overlooking the Columbia River, but I will continue to try. Meanwhile, I hate "the man". My frustration is about Kansas. It is in the middle of the white old guy world but they get fantasic Top 100 players. I know Spokane and Idaho have had recent Cross Burning issues like this

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2012/05/09/20120509idaho-sheriff-candidate-hosts-cross-burning.html

but hopefully the GU vibe of love and peace can overcome all that crap.

If you were a Top 100 kid considering Spokane or Memphis, would you make cross burnings a high priority issue? I am a very old white guy so I have no idea.

A guy burns a cross in Idaho and it's a GU problem? To my knowledge, Spokane hasn't had any cross burning issues is recent memory. If you Google "Kansas Cross Burning" you get recent incidents.

There are idiots everywhere. If a few of them get together in a state that is close to us, that is not our fault (The joke in law enforcement is that of the 14 people at the ID clan meetings, 8 are undercover officers.)

The only time I think "cross burning" would be mentioned to recruits is by other teams trying to compete with GU.

We have 4 seasons, around 6,000 students, are not in a BCS conference, and have a good academic program. I think those are the hurdles.

75Zag
05-17-2012, 12:41 PM
Never mind. Sorry to bother you.

NotoriousZ
05-17-2012, 01:00 PM
What was the topic of this thread again?

Zagdawg
05-17-2012, 01:02 PM
Something about shoes.....or hiring practices.

ZagsGoZags
05-17-2012, 01:06 PM
I'm with Blah and 75. For the consistent level of our play, top 35 every year, NCAA every year, we don't get our share of top 100. It is a credit to our staff that we play higher than our raw recruiting power.

Some people are confusing two issues in this thread.
1 - do we get recruiting at a level commensurate with our level of play - NO
2 - are we going to be fine, and do we look real good for the coming year - YES

Elite schools don't worry about having too much depth, they take another elite talent they think will be in sync with the coaching style and system, even if it crowds some positions. We are not elite yet. Until we get elite 8 or higher, don't tell me we are doing fine on recruiting. We are not ending many seasons in the top 16 in national rankings either.

It is a good question, why elite talent rarely finds it's way here, and there are a bunch of good reasons given in this thread. Let's face it, few elite recruits come here.

school may be too small, spokane may be too small
lots of kids want to be near home and eastern washington is not a pop center

lots of elite talent want to live in a big city with some cultural and 'club action' and a significant subculture of their own ethnicity on campus and in downtown

we probably make fewer promises on PT than some other coaching staffs - the PT comes when the contribution to our system comes - and sometimes PT is a lot less than expected (to wit Austin Daye)

the world looks at us as mid-major, not BCS, and I am sure that affects a lot of recruits. Look how the 'Brand' of UCLA, Florida, and Univ of NC can stay strong even when there are big off-years. We will not have a brand like that until we do some Final Fours, and with that we will get a 'Brand' too, and our recruiting in the top 100 will increase noticeably (sp.?) IMHO.

we get a lot of TV attention, but most BCS schools do too, with a much larger population of viewers

bigblahla
05-17-2012, 04:20 PM
First of all I think we have a great team.

Second I said I think there is an issue but asked politely what the rest of you thought. Which brought out the burn'em at the stake bunch for even suggesting there is an issue which is funny cause none of you will out homer me.

Third, I said nothing about a top 100 kid, I said a single US high school senior. The issue this presents to me is we are limited in our scope as to the number of players we actually look at.

The key word to successful recruiting in any field is inclusion.

As I have no access to how recruiting operates at GU I then can only guess that it's still a who you know world and relationships between coaches fosters interest in players. So are we limited to the circles of these relationships and what may occur happen stance such as going to see one player and stumbling across another? That's just like fishing sometimes you get your catch sometimes you don't.

In most instances it's up to the coaches to be aggressive in pursuit of players. Wouldn't it be better if the players were calling the coaches seeking a spot on the roster?

There is absolutely no reason GU can't "Money Ball" recruiting and change the game without violating NCAA rules or guidelines. If GU doesn't have a data base of every high school in the US and Canada they should. GU as a University should send promo materials to each of these schools about GU including as much information about all sports teams as is acceptable under NCAA guidelines. In addition every high school head coach in the country should be contacted and no I don't expect the GU coaching staff to do this.

GU has marketing classes and an effort such as this is a national marketing campaign and a great learning experience for students while increasing the University's footprint nationally.

I'm as big a Zag fan as anyone on this board but I do believe our recruiting process can be improved.

Just my opinion.

Go!! Zags!!!

Birddog
05-17-2012, 04:53 PM
Second I said I think there is an issue but asked politely what the rest of you thought. Which brought out the burn'em at the stake bunch for even suggesting there is an issue which is funny cause none of you will out homer me.

Makes me think of this.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g