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BobZag
05-04-2012, 10:46 AM
http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2012-04-30/top-point-guards

In leiu of Harris being ranked #8 PF and Gary Bell, Jr. being ranked #10 SG in the nation, using DeCourcy's Top-10 list above, where would you put Kevin?

titopoet
05-04-2012, 10:54 AM
Yeah, I saw the list. Kevin deserved to be on the list, maybe 8 or 9. But the more glaring omission was Delly. How can a list of playmakers in the NCAA not mention Matthew? Certainly better than Silva (I thought too high at #2) or Pierre Jackson or D. J. Cooper. He should have been in the top 5.

ZAGGED OUT
05-04-2012, 11:02 AM
Dova is not even in the same area code as Siva

hockeyzag
05-04-2012, 11:03 AM
I agree about mouthpiece, he should be around 4 or 5.

I think Pangos belongs at 11 or 12.

BroncoZAG615
05-04-2012, 11:06 AM
Yeah, I saw the list. Kevin deserved to be on the list, maybe 8 or 9. But the more glaring omission was Delly. How can a list of playmakers in the NCAA not mention Matthew? Certainly better than Silva (I thought too high at #2) or Pierre Jackson or D. J. Cooper. He should have been in the top 5.

Siva is a far better player than Dellavedova. That said, Matt does deserve to be on this list. As for Pangos, it is probably justified to have him just off this list for now. I think by year end, he will be one of the top 10 PGs but I see no issue with this.

jpwils
05-04-2012, 11:08 AM
M Della should be top 6 or 7. Has had 3 great years already and shouyld make a pro team overseas...perhaps even NBA.

Pangos may be better as junior but only ranked around 10 this year- must show he can direct/manage team and make shots on the road in my view. Love his play but he will be showing us even more thisyear. He is a real bona fide leader. Could move up as season comes around and we see early results!

ZAGGED OUT
05-04-2012, 11:10 AM
I think after seeing Patty Mills & Mickey McConnell go through that Dova is a lesser PG than both of those guys. Mills is FINALLY starting to sprout in the leauge and McConell is oversea's if I'm not mistaken. Granted this is only an opinion, but I'm not sure he deserves to be on there and I don't see him making the leauge after he's done with the Gaels.

jpwils
05-04-2012, 11:14 AM
Mills was awesome and so was McConnell! Thought they both had great careers @ SMC. McConnell was a better shooter; Mills was speedier; Della has toughness and a greater will to win in my opinion. And longevity.

Della has a certain toughness that evaluators like Jerry Sloan love- and bigger size. He will get drafted in second round and stick somewhere in my opinion. He is a great collegiate guard!

Having said all this-Pangos can end up even better than all 3 if he works hard-like a Steve Nash!

DADoZAG
05-04-2012, 11:15 AM
Siva is a far better player than Dellavedova.

Siva is a far greater athlete, but if one can get over Delly's slouch, the way he drops his head on his jump shot, and the way he always looks like he's on his heels, is Siva really a "far better PLAYER?"

Despite Delly's constantly dishevled (almost looks greased) hair and some of his "ugly" mannerisms on the court, he may be one of the best in the nation.

As for Pangos...to ME, Kevin IS the best in the nation 'cause he's got the right uni on.

Go ZAGS!

ZAGGED OUT
05-04-2012, 11:19 AM
Mills was awesome and so was Mcconnell! Thought they both had great careers @ SMC.

But Della has a certain toughness that evaluaors like Jerry Sloan love- and bigger size.

I refuse to use the word "awesome" to describe them as I am a Zags fan, however, I will say, I hated playing both of those guys lol. Great players definitely. I was just making the point that I think both of those guys are much better then Dova and can't see him outdoing their careers. Sure he has size, but he'll get called for those push offs every time in the league (especially as a non superstar).

Two predictions:

1. Dova doesn't make the NBA
2. GBJ still has a sour taste in his mouth from Dova dropping 26 their first meeting last year, He'll make a statement against Dova their first game this coming year

gu03alum
05-04-2012, 11:20 AM
Pangos is number 1 in my heart

http://yourcaringangels.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/youre_in_my_heart-1829.jpg

jpwils
05-04-2012, 11:29 AM
I respect that u r a Zags FAN...so am I.

College is very different than pro game , of course.

So we will have to wait and see who gets drafted.

Mills has had a long journey and is doing well now.

McConnell??

Let's hope Pangos is working on the next 3 levels of college play and focusing his attention on how to beat BYU, SMC, and all others @ K2 and on the ROAD.

I still have a sour taste on how McConnell beat us last second in Spokane.

Bell may not be the entire answer on Defense against Della. Partial answer but GLE and Hart can definitely help on him like last year.

I see nothing wrong with tipping my hat to great play on any opponent's part.
It doesn't make me less of a Zags fan- my daughter went to SMC but I visit Zags' campus every year and got to be a Zags fan by attending the occasional SMC game ( Santangelo era)- live in NorCal and happy as heck we got PK over Cal!!!

bullzag23
05-04-2012, 11:42 AM
Siva is a far greater athlete, but if one can get over Delly's slouch, the way he drops his head on his jump shot, and the way he always looks like he's on his heels, is Siva really a "far better PLAYER?"

Despite Delly's constantly dishevled (almost looks greased) hair and some of his "ugly" mannerisms on the court, he may be one of the best in the nation.

As for Pangos...to ME, Kevin IS the best in the nation 'cause he's got the right uni on.

Go ZAGS!

Biggest difference between Siva and Dova? Defense. Siva is a great defender. Dova? Not so much.

cjm720
05-04-2012, 11:59 AM
Right outside the top 10 is about right...lots of good players out there, but I like the way Pangos fits in with our team.

Nevada Don
05-04-2012, 12:37 PM
Just wanted to say thanks for some of the comments about SMC guards, past and present. Mickey McConnell is playing well, in Italy I believe. Mills has been a nice surprize especially after his tenure in Portland. He has a player option for one more year with the Spurs if he takes it. It was also rewarding to see Diamon Simpson signed by the Rockets even if its short term.

As someone mentioned, it's a postive to respect other teams and certainly Gonzaga deserves a huge amount of respect for past, present and the future for what you have accomplished and will certainly continue.

Lastly, the passion you guys have on this board is truly amazing and enviable.

titopoet
05-04-2012, 12:44 PM
Silva is a better defender and better athlete. Delly is better player.
As Few has said his Basketball IQ is off the chart. He is right.
I am a fan, I know, but I believe that GBJ could do a great defensive job on Silva, if not shut him down completely, at least slow him down. Delly makes the players around him better by finding them in the right spot to succeed.
But I have not seen anyone currently in the NCAA that reads and runs the pick and roll better than Delly.

Now on playing the League, he will get a shot. He lacks athletic punch and that might limit him. But with the exception of Kyle Anderson, there is no one on that list that is a sure fire star NBA player. They may all make the league or not.

Pangos, if he can continue his development arch, can be as good or better than any one of those on the list. I know that is big claim, but, like I said, I am fan and believe.

Martin Centre Mad Man
05-04-2012, 01:39 PM
I think Dellevedova is the best non-Zag to play in the WCC, since Steve Nash. You could make the case for a few others, but he gets my vote. I agree with those who find his ommission to be more glaring the Kevin's.

jimmy b
05-04-2012, 01:49 PM
I think Dellevedova is the best non-Zag to play in the WCC, since Steve Nash. You could make the case for a few others, but he gets my vote. I agree with those who find his ommission to be more glaring the Kevin's.

+1

bartruff1
05-04-2012, 01:56 PM
Pangos is number 1 in my heart

http://yourcaringangels.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/youre_in_my_heart-1829.jpg Wouldn't trade him for anyone... but, the experts probably wouldn't have him in the top 25.

ZAGGED OUT
05-04-2012, 02:14 PM
I think Dellevedova is the best non-Zag to play in the WCC, since Steve Nash. You could make the case for a few others, but he gets my vote. I agree with those who find his ommission to be more glaring the Kevin's.

askjfkdlsjfasdklfjsdalfjsadlkfjsdafsd.......< sorry for that, just had to pick my jaw up off my keyboard smh

BULLDOG#1
05-04-2012, 02:27 PM
I don't know all the guards on this list, but it's pretty hard for me to imagine 10 point guards in college hoops better than Delly.

No Delly is a bigger slight than no Pangos.

zagfan1970
05-04-2012, 02:33 PM
Dova is not even in the same area code as Siva

You sure put a LOT of value in steals!!!

Siva- 9.1ppg,5.6ass,3.4to,3.2rb,1.7st
Dova- 15.5ppg,6.4ass,2.9to,3.3rb, .8st

You are RIGHT not even close! Other than speed and vertical Dova is the much better player statistically in almost EVERY category.

Trust me I love to HATE the Mouthpiece, Geico, Evolution Man...but seriously??

Shooting %

Siva- 40.2FG, 24.63ptFG, 73.9FT
Dova- 44.6FG,35.53ptFG, 85.7FT

What a joke

ridgebackzag
05-04-2012, 02:34 PM
DeCourcy's list of PGs seems to focus on the athletic guards, with the exception of #1 Craft. The other players on that list are a lot different than KP or Craft. We all know how good Craft is and I thought him and Pangos shared a similar game with their passing skills and streaky offense when their teams needed it. Don't be surprised if those two are compared to each other all the time given our game with Ohio State.


I think Dellevedova is the best non-Zag to play in the WCC, since Steve Nash. You could make the case for a few others, but he gets my vote. I agree with those who find his ommission to be more glaring the Kevin's.

Dellavedova is a system player and is good only if he has a release valve (Samhan and Rob Jones) which is why he could penetrate so often and not get as much attention as he deserved by defenders. This is more of a product of Randy Bennett than anything.

BULLDOG#1
05-04-2012, 02:45 PM
Dellavedova is a system player and is good only if he has a release valve (Samhan and Rob Jones) which is why he could penetrate so often and not get as much attention as he deserved by defenders. This is more of a product of Randy Bennett than anything.

Gotta disagree. Della can kill opponents in a variety of ways. Without Waldow and Jones, Delly would still dominate most opponents. He's gritty, and always seems to find a way to beat you.

On the other hand, without Delly, I think Waldow is pretty average. Jones is solid, but much better with Delly around...

jpwils
05-04-2012, 02:48 PM
I agree that Coach Bennett deserves credit for recruiting these players and developing the pick n roll, etc. But the players make it happen...

Della, in my view, is the guy who makes it work ,thru penetrating and shooting over an excellent defender like a Rob Sacre or kicking it to the right guy at just the right time- certainly Samhan and Jones are two entirely different players ( albeit two players I used to love to hate but productive in their own respective ways).

Who will set his picks this year-Waldo- Young( is Young still there even),
or others?? Should be a great season-remember McCoy is also back for the Gaels.

Della should be 2nd team pre-season All-American. Sorry guys- I , too, love Pangos...but at this juncture , Delly has a slight edge.

BUT- to be fair-Zags have the better TEAM- more ways to beat you!!!

BroncoZAG615
05-04-2012, 02:49 PM
You sure put a LOT of value in steals!!!

Siva- 9.1ppg,5.6ass,3.4to,3.2rb,1.7st
Dova- 15.5ppg,6.4ass,2.9to,3.3rb, .8st

You are RIGHT not even close! Other than speed and vertical Dova is the much better player statistically in almost EVERY category.

Trust me I love to HATE the Mouthpiece, Geico, Evolution Man...but seriously??

Shooting %

Siva- 40.2FG, 24.63ptFG, 73.9FT
Dova- 44.6FG,35.53ptFG, 85.7FT

What a joke

Nothing like comparing the stats of a player that plays an extremely rigorous Big East schedule vs. a player that plays in a mid-major conference and a notoriously weak nonconference lineup.

Stats are fun!

ridgebackzag
05-04-2012, 02:53 PM
Gotta disagree. Della can kill opponents in a variety of ways. Without Waldow and Jones, Delly would still dominate most opponents. He's gritty, and always seems to find a way to beat you.

On the other hand, without Delly, I think Waldow is pretty average. Jones is solid, but much better with Delly around...

Look at McConnell, he's the same player as Dellavedova. Mills was just a smaller version of them. Bennett recruits players based on their skillset and not NBA potential, just like we do. I think they're a copycat team, it just took Bennett almost 10 years to copy our scheme and be successful with it.

ZagFanInNC
05-04-2012, 03:02 PM
He only plays at a high level in conference or against crappy opponents. If he would have played well against Baylor or Vandy in the tournament he might have been on the list.

They need to actually play somebody next year and he needs to step up when they do.

Pango's will be on that list post season which is what really counts.

maynard g krebs
05-04-2012, 03:18 PM
He only plays at a high level in conference or against crappy opponents. If he would have played well against Baylor or Vandy in the tournament he might have been on the list.

They need to actually play somebody next year and he needs to step up when they do.

Pango's will be on that list post season which is what really counts.

Against Purdue (assuming you meant that) in the tourney, he had 12 points, 5 rebounds, 8 assists v 3 to's. Three for 10 from the field (1-5 on 3's) and 5-5 from the line. Other than an off shooting day, that's a pretty good game statistically.

jpwils
05-04-2012, 03:25 PM
Was Della injured against Baylor or Vandy- he had a nasty sprained ankle later in the season.

Most guys wouldn't have even attempted to play but Holt had recently had his knee injury and Della HAD to play, if I recall correctly ...???

jpwils
05-04-2012, 03:39 PM
Could Siva start on most Big East teams- is he better than Ashton Gibbs or Cuse's guards?/ He is a valuable distributor and lock-down defender but
can he knock down the tres-ball or score when your team is down one guaranteed?? Was he better than Kemba Walker or even Jeremy Lamb??

Was he better than Kentucky's guards??/ Yeah he does ok against mid-tier Big East teams who are often overrated, but how does he do against upper echelon teams nite in and nite out??

Della started as a FRESHMAN in same backcourt as Mcconnell and I disagree that Mills, McConnell, and Della are all " the same player" ??????
Three totally different players in my view.

Just kinda wonderin"...

WallaWallaZag
05-04-2012, 04:15 PM
Could Siva start on most Big East teams- is he better than Ashton Gibbs or Cuse's guards?/ He is a valuable distributor and lock-down defender but
can he knock down the tres-ball or score when your team is down one guaranteed?? Was he better than Kemba Walker or even Jeremy Lamb??

Was he better than Kentucky's guards??/ Yeah he does ok against mid-tier Big East teams who are often overrated, but how does he do against upper echelon teams nite in and nite out??

Della started as a FRESHMAN in same backcourt as Mcconnell and I disagree that Mills, McConnell, and Della are all " the same player" ??????
Three totally different players in my view.

Just kinda wonderin"...

siva runs the show and was/is the most important guy on a team that made the final four and has a very good chance to do so again...any comparison with delly should start from there. louisville also won the big east tournament and siva was named mvp.

also, while mickey and delly have some similarities, patty mills was a completely different player...closer to siva then either of the other two smc players.

ZagFanInNC
05-04-2012, 06:17 PM
Against Purdue (assuming you meant that) in the tourney, he had 12 points, 5 rebounds, 8 assists v 3 to's. Three for 10 from the field (1-5 on 3's) and 5-5 from the line. Other than an off shooting day, that's a pretty good game statistically.

Good catch, Purdue not Vandy, I was just thinking about the colors.

It was an okay stat line but nothing compared to when he plays in conference. Against us this year he had:

26 pts 6 asst
22 pts 4 asst
20 pts 4 asst

Against Baylor he had 9 and 6.

He needs to step up against top ooc competetion if he wants to be in the top pg conversation.

Reborn
05-04-2012, 06:39 PM
I would put him at about 15 right now. He was too inconsistent last year, but when he played well (at home mostly) he was definitely a top ten and probably a top 5. He was awesome at home. He had a bad game against Ohio St. And that was the last time the analysts saw him.

Based on last year I would not put him ahead of Della. And personally, I would take Della before Siva.

MickMick
05-04-2012, 06:42 PM
In my own mind, Pangos is top 10 at a minimum. I felt that way last year as well.

I'm not going to get emotionally invested in preseason chatter though. I just have great faith in Pangos. Right now, I think he is the best player on the team and that is really saying some when considering the quality players up and down the lineup. He certainly makes the best decisions.

Sacre was right. He is a machine. Consistently making quick, wise decisions. Reggie Miller was certainly impressed with it when calling the WVU game.

When the rest of the team catches up to him, he will really shine. There really isn't much more he can do without more help. His game is all about getting others involved. His scoring is a huge bonus and not something the Zags should grow too dependent upon.

MDABE80
05-04-2012, 06:49 PM
Kevin is.
Elias is.
Gary is.
Our bigs are.
We're missing a star at t5 months to find one.he 3. We find one and we move into the top 10.
and I suspect we will. Few has 5 months to find one. I'm sure he's out looking right now.

Reborn
05-04-2012, 06:51 PM
Right now, I think he is the best player on the team and that is really saying some when considering the quality players up and down the lineup.

When the rest of the team catches up to him, he will really shine. There really isn't much more he can do without more help.

I have to disagree Mick Mick. I felt when he was NOT hitting from the outside he hurt the Zags alot. He never stops shooting from the outside even when he's off. I think it's the reason that Few used Stockton alot. He needed a true point guard who could get the ball to other players. Pangos needs to improve alot in his ball distribution. I would not say he was better than Harris or Bell. He shot a lot more.

TheGonzagaFactor
05-04-2012, 07:13 PM
But the more glaring omission was Delly. How can a list of playmakers in the NCAA not mention Matthew? Certainly better than Silva (I thought too high at #2) or Pierre Jackson or D. J. Cooper. He should have been in the top 5.

You are wrong IMO. Siva and Jackson have done well against pretty good competition and would run circles around Dellavedova. Delly got 9 pts against Baylor and was either not talented enough or too scared to take shots late in the Purdue game (how can you not old that against him???). Those were their only games against good competition unless we want to throw that nail biter over Cal Poly in the mix...

The list maker doesn't buy Delly because of a good performance in his own gym against a team he plays 3 times per season. He vanishes when he is not allowed to push off to such a ridiculous extent with his forearm, and good defenses shut him down.

It's like you think the WCC is the Big Ten or something... Delly will have a fun senior year and head to Europe to play ball.

TheGonzagaFactor
05-04-2012, 07:23 PM
I agree about mouthpiece, he should be around 4 or 5.

I think Pangos belongs at 11 or 12.

:roll:

810Suited
05-04-2012, 07:26 PM
He said non zag

I think Pangos is prob in the 8-12 range. Some solid players outt there, but pg is thin for sure might even be higher

MDABE80
05-04-2012, 08:21 PM
I don't see why Dova isn't in this top 10 or the SG top 10. Honestly I'd rather have him than most. He's consistent and he's got the size and talent to kill us again and again. Evn in the Big East he'd be a leader. He's that good.

GrizZAG
05-04-2012, 10:22 PM
I don't see why Dova isn't in this top 10 or the SG top 10. Honestly I'd rather have him than most. He's consistent and he's got the size and talent to kill us again and again. Evn in the Big East he'd be a leader. He's that good.

Agree strongly with this. He is a warrior that doesn't give up and is a play maker. Unfortunately he had his off games on the big stages, but some others we know have choked at the wrong time too. He is a HellofaDova in my view. The scruffy look is ... well...entertaining at times..

Robzagnut
05-04-2012, 10:49 PM
Pangos is somewhere between 15-25 right now. He's too inconsistent to be any higher. Maybe next year he'll move up, but he can't shoot 7-8 in one game then 2-13 in the next.

It's like talking with my buddy about GU's chances in the NCAA tourney. We both agreed this year, if Pangos shot well they would beat Ohio St., if not they would lose. Would like an even, consistent performance throughout the 2012-13 season and I fully expect him to move up in the rankings every year.

GUnawinit
05-04-2012, 11:00 PM
is going to be as good as Gary Bell Jr becomes.

Meaning his assist totals will grow as Gary cashes in on such.

I really feel the chemistry of these two will write the book on how both will be viewed looking back.

In my mind GBJ is going to the key, his skillset and size is going to allow him to flourish. He's only going to get stronger and more confident in his game, something Kevin already displays.

I noticed within Kevin's development his upper body getting bigger, if he continues GU will have a back court that many will struggle to defend.

I hope these two kids play to be seniors and flourish in the GU system.

Zags11
05-06-2012, 10:16 AM
Delly is a good regular season guard. I dont understand the love fest for this dude or patty. Delly is a choker in ncaa tourny games, If he was a zag......boy this board would blow up. He is 10-36 for 27.7 % from the field, and 5-22 from 3point land for a whopping 22%. A lil better then Stepp choking in ncaa. And Stepp is 1 of all time players for me. SO, Delly to me is not a top 5 or top 10 guard. He is smart, great passer but, he is also has to score for smc. He can in winter months but come spring, boy is a choker. Delly has had enough games to know what ncaa tourny player he is. He hasnt played 1 game and im saying this. I am glad he not a zag especially in march.

Zags11
05-06-2012, 10:21 AM
Against Purdue (assuming you meant that) in the tourney, he had 12 points, 5 rebounds, 8 assists v 3 to's. Three for 10 from the field (1-5 on 3's) and 5-5 from the line. Other than an off shooting day, that's a pretty good game statistically.

He always has a "off shooting" game in ncaa march tourny games.

titopoet
05-07-2012, 08:02 AM
siva runs the show and was/is the most important guy on a team that made the final four and has a very good chance to do so again...any comparison with delly should start from there. louisville also won the big east tournament and siva was named mvp.


You do make a good point. Silva does plays for Louisville and has a bunch of 4 and 5 star recruits to play off. Does make it easier in passing and in playing more aggressively as you have great shot blockers behind you. I wonder how Dova would with 4 and 5 star recruit?

UberZagFan
05-07-2012, 11:57 AM
Uber agrees the most glaring admission is Delly. Not sure why the comparison has to be with Siva (it's Siva not Silva) though. There are others on that list that are more questionable than Siva, for sure. Here's a little stat comparison of some on the list and with Pangos thrown in for good measure:

PG Stat Comparison (http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=kevin-pangos&p1=matt-dellavedova&p2=trey-burke&p3=chaz-williams&p4=phil-pressey&p5=2-joe-jackson)

Really Delly has a good case against Burk, Pressey, maybe Chaz, and definitely Joe Jackson--not sure why he is even on this list (because he can penetrate? to what avail? because he sure ain't scoring or dishing that often).

As for Pangos, he really needs to up his assists and consistency to move into the top 10-15 area--probably more in just the top 20 now.

cjm720
05-07-2012, 12:05 PM
Really Delly has a good case against Burk, Pressey, maybe Chaz, and definitely Joe Jackson--not sure why he is even on this list (because he can penetrate?

It's Burke btw lol :)

Vanzagger
05-07-2012, 04:18 PM
When it counted the most for Louisville, Siva struggled. He did make a couple circus shots and that sick dunk in the 2nd half vs Kentucky though. I wish him well.

I Like Dova and our guards better.