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CDC84
05-02-2012, 11:14 AM
With Gonzaga losing out on Trent Lockett, it appears highly unlikely that the Zags are going to be able to land a scoring small forward who can be an immediate difference maker. Who knows...maybe the staff will come up with someone. But it seems unlikely at this stage.

I know some folks on this board don't like this idea, but I really feel that Mark Few is going to have to seriously consider playing Elias Harris at small forward at times this coming up season. Between the four frontcourt players above, there just isn't enough minutes to go around.

The normal solution would be to redshirt a player, but there just isn't a redshirt candidate in this group. Harris is a senior, Dower a junior, Olynyk has already redshirted, and Karnowski is just too dang good.

It would be a horrific waste of Gonzaga's frontcourt talent to not play these four guys as much as possible. Especially when you consider that Gonzaga really doesn't have a viable returning scoring threat at small forward. I just don't see how they are going to be able to get these guys minutes without one of the frontcourt guys playing "out of position" some of the time.

At a certain point you need to play your best players. The obsession with trying to fit players into a neat little position box can leave you out of the winner's circle.

Zaga
05-02-2012, 11:22 AM
What a great problem for Gonzaga to solve. Too many good players.....Should make the practice sessions even more valuable to see who earns the minutes..... My 2 cents

zag67
05-02-2012, 11:24 AM
I think that the main key is to tell the 4 players to go out and play 110% when on the court and let the coaches know when they are tired. Then if you do decide to use Harris at the 3, you plan on some zone defenses to for not allow the other team to use speed to break down our use of size.

We have a super set of players and options that should be hard to defend our "big" team, defensive team, 3 pt shooting team, high/low offensive team and ETC.

Just think what the coaches have to be doing right now to try and decide how to use the players we have.

jazzdelmar
05-02-2012, 11:29 AM
harris at the 3 is a necessity, for all parties. willing to give up some points to have sam and pk in the lineup. see kelly as a sub either 4 or 5. its just time. just do it. edi will be a spark off bench.

JPtheBeasta
05-02-2012, 11:29 AM
I tend to agree. To dismiss the idea out-of-hand is selling Harris a little short. To those who say he's too good of a rebounder, I say it will be much harder for a 3 to keep him off the glass than a PF (players are allowed to move closer to the basket from the outside when a shot is put up, by the way :] Harris is our most athletic big and well suited for this.) He has also shown a better understanding on defense and should be better at defending the perimeter than the first experiment with this. For those that don't think his handle is good enough, compare it to Edi or Hart- I propose that there isn't much of a drop off (how many times did we see either of the latter break down their guy off the dribble last year?). He was also coming off of injury the first time around, as well.

KStyles
05-02-2012, 11:35 AM
The normal solution would be to redshirt a player, but there just isn't a redshirt candidate in this group. Harris is a senior, Dower a junior, Olynyk has already redshirted, and Karnowski is just too dang good.


A redshirt Junior. Like Olynyk, he couldn't even be an option.

It'd have to be Elias or PK, and like you said, neither of them would make much sense to redshirt.

cjm720
05-02-2012, 11:36 AM
Agree with the OP. On the flip side, I could see Few being somewhat cautious to avoid getting in foul trouble.

I'd love to see: Pangos, Bell, Draganis, Harris, KO, Dower, Karn get 85% of the minutes.

rijman
05-02-2012, 11:37 AM
CDC84, Good point on Harris and the bigs.

Along this line I couldn't help but think the player less likely to gain from PK's arrival is KO who just redshirted and was likely hoping for a lot of PT this coming season. I'm not saying KO isn't a team player and won't be happy we landed PK, but he stands to lose PT from PK's arrival after not playing last season, which isn't good for him. I also couldn't help but think that landing PK further solidifies Spanglers choice in his own mind to leave and play closer to home.

Having too many good players can be a good problem to have if you can keep everyone happy and buying into the program. If the bigs are sharing PT and winning then everyone can be pretty happy, but if they aren't winning...

cggonzaga
05-02-2012, 11:48 AM
How many impactful 3s do we even see in a season? Not too many. I am actually less concerned about E getting in foul trouble guarding the 3 than the 4. He struggles guarding bigger players down low. Get him on the perimeter and if he gets beat that's the worst case scenario (at least no foul) unless he constantly gets beat and is giving up major points.

There is no question in my mind he can easily play the 3 offensively. He's a matchup nightmare because guys guarding him will normally be smaller so he can either post them up or shoot over the top of them. My only concern would be ballhandling.

I agree with CDC. In order for us to reach "top" potential we need to play our best players. In my opinion that is:

Guards:

Pangos
Bell
Dranginis

Small Forwards:

Harris
Edi

Bigs:

Dower
Kelly
Karno

CDC84
05-02-2012, 11:57 AM
I wish to emphasize that I am only suggesting that Elias might need to play at small forward some of the time to create more minutes for the other frontcourt players.

jpwils
05-02-2012, 12:02 PM
Seems like Kelly O could play high post or perform pick n roll out front on offense . The better the pick, the better the options for KP or Bell or Dranginis! St Mary's certainly got alot of mileage with this the last few years.

Don't see Harris as well on the pick n roll but see him also being able to play some facing basket and drawing mismatches posting up smaller 3's with KO having the height to make an excellent entry pass to Dower, Harris, or Karnowski.

We need to keep Harris out of foul trouble as much as possible on D.

zag944
05-02-2012, 12:06 PM
At a certain point you need to play your best players. The obsession with trying to fit players into a neat little position box can leave you out of the winner's circle.

A big part of this of course, is determining who the best players are.

I think Harris, Bell and Pangos are all givens. I think Dower is close.

But saying that a big man should pop over to the 3 so all four of them can play may be selling Edi (who consistently improved), Draginis (who has supposedly looked like one of our best players in practices), and Hart short. Moving a big man to that position probably wouldnt be fixing a logjam...just displacing it elsewhere.

Reborn
05-02-2012, 12:07 PM
I agree with CDC that Harris should play some minutes at the 3. I believe he will too.

maynard g krebs
05-02-2012, 12:18 PM
I agree that we'll see some of this,because KO and PK are both guys that can shoot from the perimeter and are good passers. In the past I was opposed to Harris seeing time at the 3 partly because Sacre and Dower are most effective close to the basket, and mostly when they get the ball in the post they are going to try to score in a one on one situation. Playing those 3 (Sacre, Dower, Harris)together would create a logjam in the middle.

With KO and/or PK in the game, their versatility and ability to play away from the basket make this a lot more feasible than in the past.

bullzag23
05-02-2012, 12:19 PM
A big part of this of course, is determining who the best players are.

I think Harris, Bell and Pangos are all givens. I think Dower is close.

But saying that a big man should pop over to the 3 so all four of them can play may be selling Edi (who consistently improved), Draginis (who has supposedly looked like one of our best players in practices), and Hart short. Moving a big man to that position probably wouldnt be fixing a logjam...just displacing it elsewhere.

No reason that Drangs can't play as the main backup at the 1/2 spots as well. GBJ and Pangos will need to rest at some point so there is PT there. Like others have said it's not like we see many impact 3's anyway, especially once we hit the WCC.

sittingon50
05-02-2012, 12:29 PM
Sam & Kelly came in together. Coin flip; Sam took the 1st RS, Kelly the 2nd.

tom o dachi
05-02-2012, 12:29 PM
This subject only becomes a dilemma if Olynyk was able to drastically improve during his redshirt year. I think everyone can agree who will get the majority of the minutes if his game hasn't developed.

CDC84
05-02-2012, 12:31 PM
I would like to see Dranginis play more at the 1 and 2 than at the 3. Gonzaga has too many short guards in the rotation. They need a different look to throw at opponents. Dranginis has great court vision and is a good passer. I think he's better used as a guard.

NotoriousZ
05-02-2012, 12:31 PM
A big part of this of course, is determining who the best players are.

I think Harris, Bell and Pangos are all givens. I think Dower is close.

But saying that a big man should pop over to the 3 so all four of them can play may be selling Edi (who consistently improved), Draginis (who has supposedly looked like one of our best players in practices), and Hart short. Moving a big man to that position probably wouldnt be fixing a logjam...just displacing it elsewhere.

+1.

For my money, Edi and Drangs will be tough to keep on the bench. Karno can be worked in a little slowly being a freshman and all, but minutes will eventually have to be cut from some of our other bigs IMHO.

zag944
05-02-2012, 12:42 PM
No reason that Drangs can't play as the main backup at the 1/2 spots as well. GBJ and Pangos will need to rest at some point so there is PT there. Like others have said it's not like we see many impact 3's anyway, especially once we hit the WCC.

agree. I was moreso just questioning the original post, which seemed to kiss all 4 big men into being amongst our best players. Kelly and Karno have as much to prove as anybody.

SageOfZagville
05-02-2012, 12:43 PM
When Harris puts is mind too it, he can guard the other teams 3. I watched him in two tournements for Germany, one of which was the Olympic qualifying tourney, and he was guarding the other teams point guard. He did a very nice job of doing it. I think Elias gets in trouble at times, by losing where his man is by trying to help too much. If he is playing the 3, theoretically he wont have to be inside as much to stop the other players drives to the hole. He just needs to learn to hedge a little better and get lower in his defensive stance. When he is guarding a 4 or 5 with their back to the basket his defensive stance is more upright. He has the quicks to stay with a three, just needs to hone his technique a bit. He will be fine defensively.

webspinnre
05-02-2012, 12:48 PM
Elias getting 5-6 minutes at SF would make a big difference as far as getting everyone the playing time we'd like them to have. Goodness knows that there will be times where at least one of them will be in foul trouble, and that's when the others will pick up the extra minutes. It'll also be nice to be sure that we don't have to overplay EH and wear him down over the course of the season. He should be nice and fresh come tourney time.

john montana
05-02-2012, 01:07 PM
I wish we would just play a more traditional flex offense and put our best guys on the floor. we don't need 3 ball handlers with that type of offense, but with the dribble hand off stuff we've been doing, EH and two bigs would be rough.

CanadianZagFan
05-02-2012, 01:29 PM
Elias getting 5-6 minutes at SF would make a big difference as far as getting everyone the playing time we'd like them to have. Goodness knows that there will be times where at least one of them will be in foul trouble, and that's when the others will pick up the extra minutes. It'll also be nice to be sure that we don't have to overplay EH and wear him down over the course of the season. He should be nice and fresh come tourney time.

This!

Harris does not need to play 25 minutes a game at the 3 spot, 5-7 minutes would be huge in getting everyone of the "bigs" minutes to be productive and happy. Lets remember, Harris played less than 30 minutes per game last year, and our Starting center, Rob, played 26.

SteelZag
05-02-2012, 01:35 PM
My vote would also be to have one of the bigs play five min at the 3 to allow the bigs more minutes. Edy can have lion's share of mins. at the 3 and Dranginis can rotate between the 1, 2 and 3. Whichever 4 or 5 and 1 and 2 is hot could receive more minutes in any given night depending upon performance unless defense issues were to present a problem.

raise the zag
05-02-2012, 01:36 PM
Love the idea and concept, yet doubt it'll ever happen.

Coach Few is terrific at managing guards and their allocated minutes, but below average in delegating more than 2 front court players.

Its just not his strong suit. Again, very good at 1-3 position and just plug 'n play reactive, rather than pro-active at the 4 & 5. Just look at how Ryan Spangler was handled or other bench posts.

He's going to have to get creative, but will he?

If he somehow ostracizes Karnowski, it'd be a shame. He must find a way to play Elias at the 3, even for 5-8 minutes per, yet given his loyalty to certain folk, it may NEVER happen.

This is one intriguing "problem" to have...

ZagsGoZags
05-02-2012, 02:32 PM
Karnage: last big recruit of this calibre, and size, was Austin Daye
who saw far fewer minutes both years than I expected

Few will play Kelly, Karnage, Harris and Dower certain numbers of expected minutes, but will let them battle it out and play the best couple of them most in Feb and March. Merit will finally win out

It will be fun to see twin towers KO and Karnage in at same time
7'1" each, wow they have so much of what Mark Few did not have when he played, height

BULLDOG#1
05-02-2012, 03:05 PM
wonder if Spangler simply saw the writing on the wall... Karno: what a great get!

Seems like Karno is the real deal. Nabbing a kid that the likes of Duke and Kansas are after is a major feather in the coaching staff hat.

Karno seems to be a back to the basket 5. Kelly is a hybrid 4-5 (with occasional 3 skills), Sam is a scoring machine - stretch the defense 4, Harris is a hybrid 3-4 with some deficencies guarding the 3.

With this flexibility, there's enough minutes for all of them to be happy, especially if E sees quality time at the three. I suspect the real minute losers will be GLE and Hart.

Few will have to change a few things up, mostly on defense, but it remains a nice problem to have... Offensively, all four seem to be gifted enough to run a flex. The mismatches are going to be unlike anything I can remember in GU history. TWO quality seven footers with an all-american candidate on the wing and dead-eye shooting guards.

Crazy.

I hope this talent finds a way to work together... Could be a special season.

jpwils
05-02-2012, 03:45 PM
This all depends on the type of opponent and various potential matchups.

Big Ten pound-it down low styles require one set of bangers.

St Mary's utilizing pick n roll game would b another type- but Jones is not there anymore. Delly still is, though.

Guarding their athletic wings is another challenge if it presents itself but there's always Syracuse's answer-ZONE!!

We need to figure out how to WIN and let Kelly O and Harris work it out.
We are FORTUNATE to have this challenge- let's turn it into a positive
bcuz reality is spangler left and opened up a spot for a seemingly much better player with a higher ceiling...traded 3 years with limited height for four potential years ( well, maybe only 2-3 years if he goes pro) and a true center's size and height. This means Dower and Olynyk don't HAVE to play the 5 spot and can assume their natural positions more frequently!

Dranginis will LOVE having these bigs to set picks for him and to pass to on either pic 'n rolls or pic 'n pops. So will Pangos and Bell AND Stockton.
GL Edi was starting to play well at the end of the year and can play hard-nosed D along with Hart which will come in handy next season.

One other thing- we should be alot better at COMMITTING FAR LESS TURNOVERS!!!!! IF we can control tempo we should be outrebounding most
teams by a WIDE MARGIN. FEWER T/O's with better offensive and defensive rebound margins spells VICTORY @ the collegiate level( or any level)!!!!

More offensive rebounds leads to more easy buckets, more foul shots and fouls on opposing bigs, and more chances of winning close games!!! This is how Michigan State wins alot of games, guys!!

Also should be a BETTER defensive team due to freshness of players' legs!
GLE and Hart should dominate on the defensive side of the ball next year.

MickMick
05-02-2012, 04:12 PM
The Zags are simply loaded right now. They have third year players that are going to be disgruntled with playing time.

The best players will see time. Successfull coaches adapt their system to the players as opposed to fitting players into a rigid system.

Doesn't mean I'm not going to shudder a few times watching it. There will be some moments.

bballbeachbum
05-02-2012, 05:49 PM
why not E at the 3 depending on matchups/situations/his development if he proves it. not like he hasn't been there already. he was much improved on the perimeter last year defending and I'd like to see some 6'5-6-7" lithe 3 defend E in the post or off the block. if it happens and E gets that 3 call, would think we'd also see a lot of E featured on the offensive end; keep his matchup worked hard

cjm720
05-02-2012, 06:01 PM
Majority of players improve in their deficiencies under Few and I have no reason to believe that Dower, KO and Harris will be positioned to do more than we have seen. Will we Grt better on defense (much improved last year) and who's that fifth positional scorer is the question...my bet is Draganis (sorry Mick, you can't claim that lol).

MickMick
05-03-2012, 04:37 AM
Majority of players improve in their deficiencies under Few and I have no reason to believe that Dower, KO and Harris will be positioned to do more than we have seen. Will we Grt better on defense (much improved last year) and who's that fifth positional scorer is the question...my bet is Draganis (sorry Mick, you can't claim that lol).

I'm just glad that someone else is on board. I'll happily defer to you as one of the original believers. Obviously, it didn't take very much observation for us to draw the same conclusion.

The Pangos and Bell success defy the argument that Dranginis is "just" a redshirt frosh.

As much as folks are wanting to see the three bigs on the floor at the same time, I equally would like to see Pangos, Bell, and Dranginis on the floor at the same time. Using the same argument that it can be done 5-10 minutes per game.

SteelZag
05-03-2012, 06:46 AM
Considerring the title of the thread, one thing I have yet to see mentioned is where does this rank the Zags' front court nationally?

Although I may have disagreed with MickMick in an earlier post on whether the Zags would be vastly improved or not I must say that I too have been pretty consistent on how much the addition of Dranginis will help. I also envision seeing him, GBJ and Pangos on the floor at the same time. One of the huge differences I forsee in the coming year is that the squad will be loaded with great passers and relatively good handles all around. Turnovers have been a big issue in the past and I hope to see much improvement in this area. Other than Harris, with his TO's coming from offensive fouls and walking which are hard to control the team should see a better level of ball control. More assists, less turnovers resulting in a great A/TO ratio will go a long way in allowing the team to alleviate the 5 minute stretches of going scoreless which has plagued the team in recent years.

Robzagnut
05-03-2012, 07:08 AM
The Zags are simply loaded right now. They have third year players that are going to be disgruntled with playing time.



Makes perfect sense why Spangler transferred and why Carter tweeted that he was making the right decision. The kid is pretty bright. Good luck to him.

I also really like the Luke Meikle committ. Let the kid get bigger and stronger his senior year and see what happens with Karnowski in his 2nd year. The kid might need to redshirt, but playing with Dower, Karn and KO for a year should toughen him up and improve his game.

SteelZag
05-03-2012, 09:10 AM
Last year Harris, Sacre and Dower accounted for 74 of the 80 min. available and even more min in their 7 losses. That would seem to leave few min. for Karnowski. That's why I believe Harris or Olynyk must play the 3 if only for 5-8 mminutes. Dower is capable of scoring almost a point a minute and maybe he would be happy with the same mins. as last year, 18 mins., but scoring 15 points. Sacre avg. over 26 min. last year and hopefully KO would be happy with 22 really productive mins. That could boost PK's available mins. up to the 16-18 min. range would could keep all 4-5's happy. MickMick is correct in that MM will be unhappy unless he were to beat out Edi and KD. I also think mins. for DS will sharply decline depending on Few and his habit of playing upperclassmen. Will Hart want to pay for a grad program? His mins. will surely decline unless KD is not as good as advertised. CS could blow everybody away and really throw a wrench into the mix. Gonna be tough!

ZagFanInNC
05-03-2012, 09:31 AM
KO, Karn, Elias and Sam: All 4 are good passers, all 4 can stretch out the d with their shooting and all 4 have a legitimate shot at being in the NBA.

This will be our most talented front line at GU in a LONG time. They all need to play good minutes. I know this is about the fourth thread with this topic in the past month but it is necessary.

Starting 5:

C-KO
PF-Dower
SF-Elias
SG-Bell
PG- Pangos

There is something to be said about having your 5 best players on the floor, if Karn turns out to be a top 5 insert him.

This is how I see the minutes:

C/PF 80 Available-

15 Elias
25 Kelly
20 Sam
20 Karn

SF 40 Available-

15 Elias
10 Edi
8 Dranginis
7 Hart

SG 40 Available-

30 Bell
5 Edi
5 Dranginis

PG 40 Available-

30 Pangos
7 Stockton
3 Dranginis

Wow, this ended up being kind of confusing. Good thing i'm not a coach!!!

I guess the most important thing to me is that Bell, Pangos and Harris all play 30 minutes atleast. Also Harris needs to take some of his minutes at the 3 to make sure our talented front court also gets pt.

Oh yeah, MM needs to RS next year! Things will really open up when Edi and Hart leave.

maynard g krebs
05-03-2012, 01:28 PM
I'm with those who think he can be as good a freshman as Bell and Pangos were, based on the video of last fall's scrimmage.

I hope to see the 3 of them playing together in stretches this year. As upperclassmen I think they can be a better version of Frahm/Hall/Santangelo playing together, and rival Nelson/West/Carroll of St Joes.

There is going to be a special offensive chemistry between those 3.

Reborn
05-03-2012, 09:04 PM
The most important thing, imo, is team chemistry. WE know that the Zags had great team chemistry last year, and that is going to continue and maybe get better. There are 7 of the 9 key players back from last year, and this fact can not be overlooked. The other fact that can't be overlooked is that the Zags were a really good team last year. Even though they had a couple bad losses because of their youth, they had some great wins, and a near miss in losing to Ohio State by just a few in the last two minutes. This is a team that is loved by nearly all of Zag Nation.

So the team doesn't need an overhaul. Few and his staff need to fix a few things, but not a lot. The Zags will miss Rob a lot. He was a great leader, and was the heart of a good defensive team. However I think that Elias is going to be a great leader next year, and I look forward to seeing him take on this role. He definitely has the fire. Someone is going to have to step out and become the defensive force down low that Rob was. At times Sam did play good defense last year, and I think he improved defensively from his Freshman to Sophmore year. He will be improved defensively I think. But what about Kelly? Can Kelly become a defensive force? I think that maybe he can. I'm anxious to see. I saw so much passion out of Kelly on the bench last year, as he cheered quite intensively for his teammates. If he can transfer that passion onto the court I think we may be surprised.

I think the biggest surprise next year will be Dranginis. I think he is going to bring more to the court next year than Marquis brought this year, and that he is going to make just enough of a difference to make next years team more succussful. And thats what we need. Dranginis has the potential to be the outside shooter that neiter Carter or Edi could be, and he is certainly a better ball handler and passer too. Hi I also believe Edi is going to improve over last year. How could he not? Edi and Dranginis will begin to stabilize the small forward position. And I also agree that we could see Elias at the 3 for some minutes.

cjm720
05-04-2012, 07:45 AM
As much as folks are wanting to see the three bigs on the floor at the same time, I equally would like to see Pangos, Bell, and Dranginis on the floor at the same time. Using the same argument that it can be done 5-10 minutes per game.

Exactly!

I'm more excited for this upcoming year than any in the last 10...is it November yet!?

cggonzaga
05-04-2012, 08:22 AM
Successfull coaches adapt their system to the players as opposed to fitting players into a rigid system.

Would you agree this hasn't always been the coaching staff's greatest strengths?

As far as Dranginis goes, I think he'll be better used backing up Pangos and Bell this year. That way the talent dropoff isn't so obvious. I do believe the 3 should play together at times however. We'd have 3 great shooters and 3 great playmakers on the floor at once.

bullzag23
05-04-2012, 08:27 AM
Would you agree this hasn't always been the coaching staff's greatest strengths?

As far as Dranginis goes, I think he'll be better used backing up Pangos and Bell this year. That way the talent dropoff isn't so obvious. I do believe the 3 should play together at times however. We'd have 3 great shooters and 3 great playmakers on the floor at once.

I'm incredibly excited for this. As someone else posted I'm more excited for the beginning of 2012/13 than I have been for a season in a few years. The offensive talent on this team is ridiculous, even if Karnowski doesn't live up to expectations.

cjm720
05-04-2012, 09:01 AM
Would you agree this hasn't always been the coaching staff's greatest strengths?


This is in response to Mick's comment: "Successfull coaches adapt their system to the players as opposed to fitting players into a rigid system."

And to a large extent I disagree. I think it all comes down to properly recruiting the right players for the system opposed to realizing those players don't fit the system and then having to change the system.

Succesful coaches IMO stick to doing what they do best.

One of Few's primary struggles IMO is the transition in recruting by going after the more ahtletic, more highly rated kids that haven't necessarily translated into success with his system.

roxdoc
05-04-2012, 09:23 AM
This is quite a topic to ponder. I can see both arguments. Rigidity has been a problem for Few, particularly during game play. On the other hand..........

bballbeachbum
05-04-2012, 10:21 AM
I'm just glad that someone else is on board. I'll happily defer to you as one of the original believers. Obviously, it didn't take very much observation for us to draw the same conclusion.

The Pangos and Bell success defy the argument that Dranginis is "just" a redshirt frosh.

As much as folks are wanting to see the three bigs on the floor at the same time, I equally would like to see Pangos, Bell, and Dranginis on the floor at the same time. Using the same argument that it can be done 5-10 minutes per game.

Big Parb wrote something like this in another thread and many agreed!

Put me in the three guard crowd too, and put me in the 3 bigs crowd too.

nice balance :)

GUnawinit
05-04-2012, 11:14 PM
continues looking at "wings" looking to transfer.

The "big" picture is answered...

In my mind KO is going to change the entire season, this kid is coming out this season to prove a point!

Outside, back to the hoop and what I hear defensively!

GU is going to get one more year out of a transfer that can play the wing
and we all know who that is!

Think of some of his follow up dunks and this year he'll know the system...

Coach Crazy
05-05-2012, 04:19 AM
I wish to emphasize that I am only suggesting that Elias might need to play at small forward some of the time to create more minutes for the other frontcourt players.

I think that is a valid point, to some degree. In the end, perhaps we are better off not snagging another transfer?

I wanted Lockett as much as the next guy, but we are going to have 3 guys at the 3 spot this year in Dranginis, GLE, and Hart. We all know why Hart is there, and GLE adds a little more offense than Hart, but that same hard-nosed perimeter D. Drang...well, we are hearing that he is just as good as KP and GBJ...soooooo in the end...get him his minutes so he can develop. Can you imagine if Kevin and Gary hadn't been thrust into the roles they actually were in this year? Sad thought to have.

At the end of the day, sure, get "some" minutes for Elias at 3 IF it maximizes talent and allows for any combo of our big man on the floor, three at a time. But let's be honest, a lot of unknowns right now. KO may hit the floor and may be very much not that good either at first, or at all.

For the sake of having a big 7 footer in the middle (KO doesn't seem "big" to me) I hope to goodness that Karno earns that starting spot. IF Drang ends up being the genuine article, perhaps we don't worry about it all as much?

One thing is for sure, it will be a good test for Few, in terms of really juggling the rotation to get the most out of every player in these prescribed situations.

ZagsGoZags
05-05-2012, 05:06 AM
We all have to wait to see how Kyle D performs in D-1 play. If he is as good as most knowledgable members of this board say he is, I hope he is used primarily to spell, or rotate with Gary and Kevin at the guard spot, rather than play the 3 that much. He is not only a bit short for the 3, but also somewhat thin for the rebounding needed from a 3, especially when we have bigger 3's to use, Edi, Hart, and sometimes Elias H and Kelly O.

Reborn
05-05-2012, 08:53 AM
If he is as good as most knowledgable members of this board say he is, I hope he is used primarily to spell, or rotate with Gary and Kevin at the guard spot, rather than play the 3 that much. He is not only a bit short for the 3, but also somewhat thin for the rebounding needed from a 3, especially when we have bigger 3's to use, Edi, Hart, and sometimes Elias H and Kelly O.

Good point.

zag67
05-05-2012, 09:48 AM
I think that the rotation for the "high level" games will be tight. I then think that GB, KP and Harris will be looking at 30 or more minutes. I think that KO, PK, and Dower will share the time and the coaches will use the best that night and try to create mismatches in our favor. They will also be looking to who deserves the time for follow on games. At the 3, I think that Edi will start getting the main set of minutes with Hart, MM, and Kyle Dranginis getting the remainder (unless Harris or KO create a super mismatch). Then as the season goes on hopefully one of them will step up and show they deserve the most minutes. That means Stockton will come in and relieve the ball handling pressure fro KP for some minutes. Now if Kyle shows early good ball handling he could also come in under certain mismatches.

Now, many games during the season (10 to 15), I am hoping that this team gells and blows some teams out. When this happens players like GB, KP, and Harris will play fewer minutes and the rest of the team will use that time to improve. Also during these games I expect to see all of the players early so that the coaches can evaluate how they handle pressure.

So I guess what I am saying is that players like Harris, GB, and KP might not average 32 for the year, but they will under the games where they are close.

MDABE80
05-05-2012, 12:00 PM
Few;s got lots of talent to figure out this year. I think Karno is the best passer in a while (outside of David). If he gts his low post position or even an elbow position off a pick and roll, he'll have 3 options...all good ones.
I do think we'll see more bigs with plenty of time for Elias at the 3-4. Lots of choices for Few this year.
We know Bell and Pnagos will shoot lots of 3's. I think addition of Karno will open up lots of other options as well. Something tells me that whoever fills it up, plays defense and figures out the low post options will get the most time.

jim77
05-06-2012, 12:06 AM
Really good posts here. I'm gonna steal a bit from many posts.

Our team is so versatile and DEEP its not even funny. I agree with CDC about Harris getting" 3" minutes. Ialso think that the ball handling skills of our bigs can cover it.

Many on here have expressed concearn about players staying happy due to minutes. I wouldn't be surprised if its a bigger deal to us fans than it is to the players. Suiting up for a top 10 team...private jets....playing the best .....dancing every year....and a really high ceiling coming up this year. Fact is, its a privledge to be part of...and a darn exciting one at that....the WHOLE nation knows who you are if you're a BULLDOG.

Speaking of different combinations.....I'd be curoius to see David Stockton and KD together with 3 BIGS. We all know how well David feeds the post...and a tall KD with him would be interesting. Sometimes chemistry requires guards stay together...I really like KP and Bell together and will get most minutes. I'd like to see both rested together in favor of DS and KD.

All the talk has been about the bigs and guards but, we've got a couple of hardnosed defenders in Hart and Edi to take care of those athletis guard types if needed. The Zags can certainly ratchet up the defensive intensity even more with our talented lineups...which in and of itself will limit minutes. Hart and Edi both can split 30 to 35 minutes a game which should be plenty...again the opponent will dictate lineups. The coahes gotta be having fun working these "problems" : ) GO ZAGS!