PDA

View Full Version : Will Elias Harris play some at the SF position next year?



ZagaZags
04-24-2012, 06:17 PM
I was thinking if we get Karnowski next season, could we see Elias playing a few minutes at the 3?

JPtheBeasta
04-24-2012, 06:24 PM
I think he has been showing a better understanding on defense and it wouldn't be such a huge leap to think he might be able to do so in small doses- depending on matchups, of course.

cjm720
04-24-2012, 06:27 PM
Doubtful. He can be a dominating player down low in college and potential foul trouble with any of our bigs, plus with Landry/Hart/MM there's little need. The emergence of a legit 3 or another longer 2 plus Karn would make our team pretty lethal.

webspinnre
04-24-2012, 06:43 PM
Depends on what you mean by that. If you mean we'd have a pair of forwards who could play inside or out (E with KO or SD, potentially) with 2 guards and a center, then maybe. If you mean a more traditional college wing type, not really. Basically if we're talking a more NBA style 3, then I could see him getting maybe 3-5 minutes a game.

CDC84
04-24-2012, 06:43 PM
If Gonzaga doesn't land Lockett but lands Karnowski, it's something I would at least consider....

CaliforniaZaggin'
04-24-2012, 07:24 PM
It's far more likely to work with Kevin and Gary in the back court than it did with Steven and Meech.

SteelZag
04-24-2012, 07:34 PM
I'm dying to hear everyone's projected rotations and minutes with Karno and Lockett, with Karno but not Lockett and with Lockett but not Karno. Keep in mind Lockett played 35 min per game this past season and Karno wants lots of minutes. Practices ought to be brutal with palyers vying for playing time. Does anybody think Few would go way up tempo with a deep rotation? I noticed most of the FF and E8 teams had pretty tight rotations with a max of seven players receiving double digit minutes. Which players are going to be the odd men out? The only thing I know for sure is that winning goes a long way and anybody's loss of minutes would be more palatable.

awberke
04-24-2012, 07:44 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Y_ODcECzxGQ/T4sMKffGa8I/AAAAAAAAA88/LnQ8Dvynqbg/s1600/michael-scott-no.gif

U Zig, I Zag
04-24-2012, 08:40 PM
Other than straight up, old-school, backing a fella down I don't see much of a difference between the 3 and 4 a lot of the time. E came from the outside attacked face-up quite a bit. When the offense is flowing several players, E is one, were probably greenlit anytime they felt they had the room. He is legitimate enough that you have to play him honest from deep and his handles were much improved (I am still surprised by his end to end court speed - he moves like a gazelle when he wants to).

Shorter answer: yes. As defined by taller players that would be considered the '4 and 5' (KO and Sam, Sam and Karno, etc) on the floor at the same time.

ZagFanInNC
04-24-2012, 08:47 PM
and i'll say it again, how many 3's can you think of that can handle EH when he takes them into the post? Not many, definitely none in our conference.

I really hope he improves his handle so that he can use atleast 5-10 minutes at the 3 making more PT for the other 3 bigs. EH is going to have a big senior year if he plays consistently, he needs 30 mpg at least.

I REALLY feel strongly that Mathis needs to RS next year!!! There will be 0 minutes for him again, the year after things will open up.

ridgebackzag
04-24-2012, 08:59 PM
Pangos, Bell, Harris, Dower, Olynyk/Karno. I think we'll see this lineup more than we think.

maynard g krebs
04-24-2012, 09:03 PM
It didn't work with last year's guys because Rob is strictly low post, as is Sam mostly. While I still think Harris is a 4, KO and PK are both guys who are excellent passing bigs and can also step out and shoot it. So theoretically, next year's team would be better able to play 3 bigs and still allow Harris to operate inside without being easily doubled, as KO and PK can both play in a way that will keep the floor spread.

I've always argued against Harris at the 3, but this year the personnel could make it work more. It will be interesting to see what the coaches have schemed in this regard. This group could create some interesting mismatches, and will have enough shooters to punish teams that zone them.

On the defensive end, this lineup will be on the slow side and might have trouble playing man d against quick teams.

awberke
04-24-2012, 09:04 PM
Harris is our best rebounder and you guys want to put him out on the perimeter?

Not to mention the only reason he shoots a high percentage from 3 is because he is wide open every time. You put him at the small forward and he doesn't get looks like that.

On top of that, he struggles with handling the ball as it is. His perimeter defense also is not that great, i would have rather had sacre guarding the 3pt line that harris, and i mean that.

All around I think its a bad idea.

Lineup for me is Pangos, Bell, Edi, Harris, Dower
Second rotation is Stockton, Dranginis, Hart, Olynyk, Karno

ZagFanInNC
04-24-2012, 09:30 PM
Harris is our best rebounder and you guys want to put him out on the perimeter?

Not to mention the only reason he shoots a high percentage from 3 is because he is wide open every time. You put him at the small forward and he doesn't get looks like that.

On top of that, he struggles with handling the ball as it is. His perimeter defense also is not that great, i would have rather had sacre guarding the 3pt line that harris, and i mean that.

All around I think its a bad idea.

Lineup for me is Pangos, Bell, Edi, Harris, Dower
Second rotation is Stockton, Dranginis, Hart, Olynyk, Karno

This is my thing, our best 8 players that need PT (if we get them of course):

KO,Dower, EH, Karn, Bell, Pangos, Drang, Lockett.

If Harris takes all of his miutes at the 4 that will leave one of the bigs on the bench longer. If he can push a few of those minutes to the 3 our best players will get more PT.

I don't think him playing some minutes at the 3 will be as devastating as you think.

awberke
04-24-2012, 09:38 PM
This is my thing, our best 8 players that need PT (if we get them of course):

KO,Dower, EH, Karn, Bell, Pangos, Drang, Lockett.

If Harris takes all of his miutes at the 4 that will leave one of the bigs on the bench longer. If he can push a few of those minutes to the 3 our best players will get more PT.

I don't think him playing some minutes at the 3 will be as devastating as you think.

We haven't even seen Dranginis or Karnowski play D1 ball yet.

I agree though, it's a problem if we get Karnowski and he expects to get significant minutes as a freshman. If Sam doesn't get 25+ minutes a game this year, I would bet a lot of money that he won't be here for a senior year.

I also think it would be weird to have Karnowski and Olynyk on the floor at the same time. Two legit seven footers guarding that basket (that are both slow).

ZagaZags
04-24-2012, 09:53 PM
I only suggest this because if Harris plays 30 min at the 4, that will leave 50 min between KO, Dower and Karnowski. Someone is not going to be happy and get homesick.

Oregonzagnut
04-24-2012, 09:55 PM
It's far more likely to work with Kevin and Gary in the back court than it did with Steven and Meech.

thats an understatement IMO. Gray was superb and Meech was too (in certain roles). But insert either Pangos or Bell with Gray and you have a more effective backcourt back then.

But no matter how you look at it, as freshman, both Pangos and Bell are at a higher level than either Gray or Goodson were as freshman. Harris has issues with ball handling/movement, and when he is at the 3 spot it forces his hand. Traveling, TO's and a general sense that he is out of his zone tell the world he is not comfortable at the 3.

Can't be said enough, until we hear PK has signed on the dotted line, Dower, Harris, Edi, Bell and Pangos will take us to the next frontier.

ZagaZags
04-24-2012, 09:56 PM
That will make Harris, Dower, KO and Karnowski happy. You have 80 minutes to work with for 2 positions. Center and power forward.

CDC84
04-24-2012, 09:59 PM
There is always the Thad Matta approach. Play your five most talented players, period, regardless of what their natural position is. My talent against yours.

Some of this would depend on just how good Karnowski is at this stage. Again, if GU gets him.

MDABE80
04-24-2012, 10:33 PM
I don't think there is a pure 3 or 4 the way Few plays them. It's kind of a hybrid system. Just because WE label a kid a "3", often times that kid isn't merely a 3 or a 4. SO yes...EH can play both. Just because a kid's a 3 doesn't confine him to the perimeter. EH seemed to be the top rebounder last year but played everywhere.

As I look at this upcoming season, I do think Sam , Kelly, Karno ( if he comes) and El ias will all play 4 and 5's at times. It's a mix. EH is very good LD shooter....but that doesn't mean he can't fly in for a rebound as well.

We do have Hart, Kyle to buttress the "3" and 3 good guards. Not sure where Edi fits unless he get more interested in his shooting and rebounding. Lockett shows up and we do have a tremendous assortment of talent at the wing. Don't blink if that happens...we could be 15-0 by the time conference begins.

MickMick
04-25-2012, 04:46 AM
I have an idea.

Let's put our toughest guy a little further away from the rim.

Maybe we can get a couple extra travels called per game while we are at it.

Might as well experiment with a new position for your senior year.



On a side note, CDC is too stuck on the wing position. I have far more confidence in our current wings than he does. We don't necessarily have to rely on a transfer to instantly add 15 points per game.

loscontigos79
04-25-2012, 06:41 AM
I agree. It's not like he wasn't somewhat playing the 3 last year when SD, RS and him were all in at the same time. Despite the fact that his overall numbers from last year weren't significantly better he has improved greatly in the areas he needed to. He's smarter with the ball is the main improvement that makes him able to play the 3. Last year instead of driving into a crowd and attempting a ill-advised shot he started looking for the kickout when it got crowded in the key. I think Harris has really fine tuned his game and it showed towards the end of last year. He's gonna be a beast this year wherever he's playing

awberke
04-25-2012, 07:38 AM
I agree. It's not like he wasn't somewhat playing the 3 last year when SD, RS and him were all in at the same time.

I don't remember that ever happening

ZagsObserver
04-25-2012, 07:48 AM
thats an understatement IMO. Gray was superb and Meech was too (in certain roles). But insert either Pangos or Bell with Gray and you have a more effective backcourt back then.

But no matter how you look at it, as freshman, both Pangos and Bell are at a higher level than either Gray or Goodson were as freshman. Harris has issues with ball handling/movement, and when he is at the 3 spot it forces his hand. Traveling, TO's and a general sense that he is out of his zone tell the world he is not comfortable at the 3.

Can't be said enough, until we hear PK has signed on the dotted line, Dower, Harris, Edi, Bell and Pangos will take us to the next frontier.

Gray yes, meech no. The fact that both Kevin snd Gary are scoring threats inside and outside, as well as adequate passers, would seem to free Harris up and provide more opportunities

zagfan07
04-25-2012, 08:45 AM
Everyones analysis here is looking at Elias at the offensive end. Where I see the biggest issue is at the defensive end. Sure, Elias can rebound and plays decent post defense, but at the 3 spot he'll be forced to guard much more on the perimeter than at the 4.

He needs to improve his on-ball defense in order to play that 3 position. I think he did that some last year, but he's going to need to get quicker laterally to stay with some of the athletic 3's on the perimeter.

Do I think he can do it? Yes. I think it really gives Few alot of versatility with the lineup if he can.

CDC84
04-25-2012, 08:59 AM
On a side note, CDC is too stuck on the wing position. I have far more confidence in our current wings than he does. We don't necessarily have to rely on a transfer to instantly add 15 points per game.

I don't think that small forward needs to average 15 PPG, but he needs to have the offensive skill level to score 20 in case Pangos is having an off night or the opposing defense is trying to take him out (like Ohio State did). Even if Gonzaga lands Trent Lockett, he's not going to average 15 PPG because he didn't even average that on an ASU team that featured far less offensive talent than past year's GU team. It's about having as many weapons at your disposal as possible so that the opponent cannot concentrate too much of its defensive effort on any one player.

Bottom line: if Gonzaga had Trent Lockett this past March, they beat Ohio State and move on to the sweet 16. Guy just didn't put any fear into the Ohio State defense whatsoever.....and I really like Guy and what he brings to the team. That is, as a role player coming off the bench.

I also want another small forward (in addition to Guy) because I think it's in the program's best interests to have Dranginis as the team's number one backup guard.

zaguarxj
04-25-2012, 09:10 AM
About the same chance as Few having a baby with Bigfoot. There has been ample opportunity for the coaching staff to do this over the last 3 years. They have not. Next year will be no different. :horse:

bballbeachbum
04-25-2012, 09:11 AM
The fact that both Kevin snd Gary are scoring threats inside and outside, as well as adequate passers, would seem to free Harris up and provide more opportunities

they'll still need to consistently be able to break physical backcourt pressure against the top teams so the abilities you mention can provide

Vanzagger
04-25-2012, 12:43 PM
broke some major presses like he was shot out of a cannon, mainly after the SF debacle. I dont know if Coach came up with this or E took it upon himself.

I know which I would guess.

Just give him or GBJ the ball and get the hell out of the way. Our other guys will be shooting more lay ins then they ever imagined. Put your efforts towards elite D.

Go back and watch Indiana vs Kentucky in the Dance. Dont out think yourself or get cute.

MickMick
04-25-2012, 03:47 PM
Bottom line: if Gonzaga had Trent Lockett this past March, they beat Ohio State and move on to the sweet 16. Guy just didn't put any fear into the Ohio State defense whatsoever.....and I really like Guy and what he brings to the team. That is, as a role player coming off the bench.

I also want another small forward (in addition to Guy) because I think it's in the program's best interests to have Dranginis as the team's number one backup guard.

I agree with respect to the idea that one player would have made the difference. Dranginis would have been the difference against Ohio State. He fits the bill for meeting your argument of being one scorer short if Pangos is off. We have his services this year.

We don't have to experiment with E to get there.