PDA

View Full Version : Sacre, Olynyk, Dower



thespywhozaggedme
04-11-2012, 03:09 PM
All "bigs" who put aside their pride and redshirted for the benefit of the team and ultimately themselves.

GoGU
04-11-2012, 03:27 PM
Regardless of how you feel about what reportedly happened, in the end, this is a personal decision by Ryan. We still don't officially know whether they asked him to redshirt (and probably never will). Give the kid a break. He still has to sit out a year wherever he transfers to. This has nothing to do with being asked to redshirt. This is about being closer to home and family.

sittingon50
04-11-2012, 03:33 PM
FWIW, Sacre's was medical.

zag944
04-11-2012, 03:35 PM
There's also players feel they could be used differently. They see potential for greater benefit to another team, and greater benefit to themselves.

One of the greatest Gonzaga players ever for example.

thespywhozaggedme
04-11-2012, 03:58 PM
FWIW, Sacre's was medical.

It wasn't an actual "medical redshirt" though, was it? If so, he would have had to petition the NCAA for a 6th year. Rob was injured and chose to rest the rest of the season via a redshirt, I believe. He could have played once he recouped, but chose to work on his game.

thespywhozaggedme
04-11-2012, 04:01 PM
Regardless of how you feel about what reportedly happened, in the end, this is a personal decision by Ryan. We still don't officially know whether they asked him to redshirt (and probably never will). Give the kid a break. He still has to sit out a year wherever he transfers to. This has nothing to do with being asked to redshirt. This is about being closer to home and family.

But here's what I don't understand: when he was recruited by and signed with Gonzaga, was he not aware of the distance between Spokane and Oklahoma? :confused:

Vanzagger
04-11-2012, 04:06 PM
and E.

If you told me it was possible to have these four players on the same team for 3 straight years and not make a big time run, or at least a Sweet 16, I would have laughed.

Hey at least we have a 5-7 kid who can feed the post.

The wake up calls will keep coming, but nothing will change. Well, not until the girls games are selling out but not the guys.

thickman1
04-11-2012, 04:26 PM
It wasn't an actual "medical redshirt" though, was it? If so, he would have had to petition the NCAA for a 6th year. Rob was injured and chose to rest the rest of the season via a redshirt, I believe. He could have played once he recouped, but chose to work on his game.

This.

cjm720
04-11-2012, 04:51 PM
We're in a good position with E, KO, and Dower...lots of versataltity. I do think we'll need some meaness that Spangler could have brought to the table, especially now that Bobby's gone. But we'll do just fine...

JPtheBeasta
04-11-2012, 05:03 PM
and E.

If you told me it was possible to have these four players on the same team for 3 straight years and not make a big time run, or at least a Sweet 16, I would have laughed.

Hey at least we have a 5-7 kid who can feed the post.

The wake up calls will keep coming, but nothing will change. Well, not until the girls games are selling out but not the guys.

The only thing surer than death or taxes is the ubiquitous "Stockton is short" thread hijack.

Bogozags
04-11-2012, 08:49 PM
Call me when we lose a player who actually goes on to do something.. And don't give me Grant Gibbs because he looked like a toddler playing against UNC this year.

Our program is in a good place. Very good, iMO. Players leave because they think they are better than they are, and they don't want to earn their PT. THey want instant gratification. Well, that's not usually how it works. See ya. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. I love guys like Bell and Pangos who seem to genuinely care about the program. It's not about the name on the back with them.. The others? Well, clearly they don't feel that way.

It is interesting how you use GG as an example because he was schooled by UNC. I do believe that our whole team was schooled by UNC with what many say was one of our best ever teams that made the SS of 2009.

UNC this year, if Marshall had not gotten hurt, might well have played UK for the NC.

maynard g krebs
04-11-2012, 09:09 PM
If you told me it was possible to have these four players on the same team for 3 straight years and not make a big time run, or at least a Sweet 16, I would have laughed.

Hey at least we have a 5-7 kid who can feed the post.



None of the 3 North American players was a consensus top 100 recruit. Rivals had Sacre at 102, Dower at116, and Olynyk not in the top 150. Each has weaknesses that have been discussed on this board. All are pretty good, but none were elite players.

Stockton played the amount he did the last couple years because there was no better option. Had the staff foreseen Carter's struggles, Dranginis probably wouldn't have RS'ed.

There is more to basketball than height. By your theory, a lineup of Manute Bol, Shawn Bradley, Will Foster, Gheorge Muresan, and Ralph Sampson at point should be unbeatable.

Please give it a rest.

KStyles
04-11-2012, 09:46 PM
It wasn't an actual "medical redshirt" though, was it?

It sure was a medical redshirt. Regular redshirts don't get to play 5 games and then decide to sit out the rest of their season as a redshirt year. If a player plays even one minute of one game, their redshirt is gone. If injured & they've played in less than 30% of their team's games for the season, they can apply for a medical redshirt and get that year of eligibility back.


If so, he would have had to petition the NCAA for a 6th year.

That is usually done if a player misses two seasons due to injury, or a situation when someone redshirts early (a regular redshirt, to learn the system, get bigger, work on skills, let someone ahead of them graduate, etc.) and then loses a later season to an injury. Sacre only missed one year total, so still within his 5 to play 4. One 6th year guy was Jordan Shipley at UT sitting out both his freshman & redshirt freshman years with knee/hamstring injuries and getting a 6th year of eligibility in 2009. Another example was Houston's Case Keenum, who redshirted (a regular redshirt) his freshman year and then tore his ACL the 3rd game of his RS senior year. A football season is more than 10 games, so Case participated in under 30% of Houston's games and got his 6th season approved.


Rob was injured and chose to rest the rest of the season via a redshirt, I believe. He could have played once he recouped, but chose to work on his game.

He could've played once he was healed (iirc, the last 6-8 games or so) if he'd wanted to, but he'd forfeit the entire season of eligibility (and had 2 years left). Didn't seem worth it to him or the program. Instead, he applied for the medical redshirt, got it, and had 3 years left.

Zag79
04-11-2012, 11:28 PM
and E.

If you told me it was possible to have these four players on the same team for 3 straight years and not make a big time run, or at least a Sweet 16, I would have laughed.

Hey at least we have a 5-7 kid who can feed the post.

The wake up calls will keep coming, but nothing will change. Well, not until the girls games are selling out but not the guys.

I agree with this, almost everyone here does in reality. Not too many really thought we would only have 2 sweet 16's in the last 11 years either. Hopefully we can get to that next round soon, it will happen with the players we have eventually.

ZagFanInNC
04-12-2012, 01:41 AM
Hey at least we have a 5-7 kid who can feed the post.



Everyone knows you don't like DS, who cares.

How does a thread about our bigs turn into dissing a walk on point guard?

These kind of things lead to you losing credibility to other posters. To me your posts are turning into the equivalent of Bleacher Report articles, just pass and don't waste your time.

ZAGGED OUT
04-12-2012, 07:11 AM
It is interesting how you use GG as an example because he was schooled by UNC. I do believe that our whole team was schooled by UNC with what many say was one of our best ever teams that made the SS of 2009.

UNC this year, if Marshall had not gotten hurt, might well have played UK for the NC.

I've also seen Gonzaga run UNC out of the gym before (Pargo, Bouldin, Heytvelt days) so it's not that outlandish of a statement. Especially considering Gibbs is a solid sized guard at 6'4 ish, you expect bigger guards to handle pressure better. Im exceptionally glad that our smaller guards seemed fine against OSU.

tobizag
04-12-2012, 08:21 AM
Call me when we lose a player who actually goes on to do something.. And don't give me Grant Gibbs because he looked like a toddler playing against UNC this year.

Our program is in a good place. Very good, iMO. Players leave because they think they are better than they are, and they don't want to earn their PT. THey want instant gratification. Well, that's not usually how it works. See ya. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. I love guys like Bell and Pangos who seem to genuinely care about the program. It's not about the name on the back with them.. The others? Well, clearly they don't feel that way.

it's astonishing how many people on here, including yourself, have direct one-way phone lines to players' brains. it's also astonishing how people CONTINUALLY toss players under the bus if they leave gonzaga, but fight for the beatification of st. dickau, st. batista, etc. i suppose those guys were selfish too? not willing to earn PT?

:vomit-smiley-007:

hooter73
04-12-2012, 08:26 AM
My only concern is for 2014 and beyond.

gamagin
04-12-2012, 09:20 AM
I want to thank you two for the consistency with which you seem to energetically, and with apparent ernestness as well, post essentially the exact same things, over and over.

Then, over and over again.

And over and over.

Then, over and over again.

And over and over.


Then, over and over again.

And over and over.

Then, over and over again.

And over and over.


Then, over and over again.

And over and over.

Then, over and over again.

And over and over.


Then, over and over again.

And over and over.

Then, over and over again.

And over and over.


Then, over and over again.

And over and over.

Then, over and over again.

And over and over.

ZagNut08
04-12-2012, 09:52 AM
and E.

If you told me it was possible to have these four players on the same team for 3 straight years and not make a big time run, or at least a Sweet 16, I would have laughed.

Hey at least we have a 5-7 kid who can feed the post.

The wake up calls will keep coming, but nothing will change. Well, not until the girls games are selling out but not the guys.

I heard Spangler transfered because Few refused to play him at the point.

sittingon50
04-12-2012, 10:42 AM
Who's your source, '09?

My source told me that Few wanted RS to get another tat & Ryan refused.

maynard g krebs
04-12-2012, 03:22 PM
Clearly Dickau was a lot better than a bench rider at UW though.

For the umpteenth time: Dickau was playing 15-20 min a game at the end of his fr year. In the last game against UCLA, w/ UW needing a win to make the NCAA's, DD was on the floor down the stretch, and it was his domination of Earl Watson in the last few minutes that overcame Toby Baileys' 31 point second half and got UW into the tourney. (I was there). They made the S16 as an 11 seed before losing to UCONN of Rip Hamilton's last second falling down prayer of a shot. Dan was the difference; without his emergence that team didn't have a prayer of making the tourney. He made 53% of his 3's that year, btw.

His soph yr he was starting pg, hobbling on a bad foot until a stress fracture ended his season in December.

Calling him a bench rider is highly inaccurate.

bballbeachbum
04-12-2012, 05:18 PM
where is the power going to come from inside next year? on the glass, defending the rim? E is explosive as all get out, but not really powerful although he's no wuss. If Karno can't bang effectively, who does on next year's team? Maybe KO? Sam?

Unbiased
04-12-2012, 06:37 PM
where is the power going to come from inside next year? on the glass, defending the rim? E is explosive as all get out, but not really powerful although he's no wuss. If Karno can't bang effectively, who does on next year's team? Maybe KO? Sam?

I respectfully disagree regarding Harris. He is powerful and tough - Arizona's Sean Miller made this quote about Harris. "After Harris' performance today," Miller said "I don't know if there's a better forward out there. He is striking with how tall he is. I didn't realize he was as big physically as he is."

Vanzagger
04-12-2012, 06:56 PM
[QUOTE=ZagFanInNC;786191]Everyone knows you don't like DS, who cares.


I like DS. The same goes for every other player. His shot has looked better every year. Seems like his teammates love him, which is cool. His play looks the part at times.

Look, he has 2 more years with the saviors, Bell jr and Pangos(playing out of position), to prove me wrong. I will bow down to FewGiac's genius next year when they make a run. They are going to win a round of 32 next year right?

zagademic
04-12-2012, 10:21 PM
But here's what I don't understand: when he was recruited by and signed with Gonzaga, was he not aware of the distance between Spokane and Oklahoma? :confused:

It's hard to know what goes on in the mind of a 17 or 18 year old. That's just the way they are. Maybe this is the sort of thing that makes us appreciate the players who stay. It takes so much maturity and faith to know that the four years at GU will be awesome. I am sorry he is leaving, and I wish him the best. We will be fine, as always.

ZagaZags
04-12-2012, 11:08 PM
I handed Carnac an envelope with a question. Before he opened it he answered, Dower, Olynyk and Harris. He then read the question.... Name 3 bigs better than Ryan Spangler.

bballbeachbum
04-13-2012, 09:57 AM
I respectfully disagree regarding Harris. He is powerful and tough

E's plenty tough, definitely agree, as stated he's no wuss, so we don't disagree there.

not talking about toughness tho, talking about power

who bangs with the bullies in the paint and with the power players out there and the Sullinger players, that is my question. Blackwell is gone from USF (didn't he transfer along with half a dozen others?), but that kind of matchup

Maybe Sam will be greatly improved in that area, KO too. Maybe Karno gets it done. I'm sure there is an answer. With Spangs transferring it's an abvious question seems to me

cjm720
04-13-2012, 10:34 AM
Yep beach. We our bigs to get some meanness in their bones, not afraid to bang and bring the pain.

DADoZAG
04-13-2012, 10:53 AM
E's plenty tough, definitely agree, as stated he's no wuss, so we don't disagree there.

not talking about toughness tho, talking about power

who bangs with the bullies in the paint and with the power players out there and the Sullinger players, that is my question. Blackwell is gone from USF (didn't he transfer along with half a dozen others?), but that kind of matchup

Maybe Sam will be greatly improved in that area, KO too. Maybe Karno gets it done. I'm sure there is an answer. With Spangs transferring it's an abvious question seems to me

Kelly's got the lower body to handle the type of bigs you mention, provided he learns how to use his feet and get proper position. Same goes for limiting those dumb fouls he's been plagued with.

Per the General, and I paraphrase, you play defense with your feet, not your arms. Guarding those bigs is as much about mechanical advantage, specifically leverage, as it is brute strength or power (of course it doesn’t hurt to be as strong as an ox as Big Rob was).

Hopefully Knock Out was keeping the type of stats during games this past season that kept his focus on that very thing. He seems to be intelligent enough to learn simply by watching.

Sam needs to learn exactly the same thing. Move your feet big guy!

Go ZAGS!

Zag79
04-14-2012, 02:55 PM
I want to thank you two for the consistency with which you seem to energetically, and with apparent ernestness as well, post essentially the exact same things, over and over.

Then, over and over again.

And over and over.

Then, over and over again.

And over and over.


Then, over and over again.

And over and over.

Then, over and over again.

And over and over.


Then, over and over again.

And over and over.

Then, over and over again.

And over and over.


Then, over and over again.

And over and over.

Then, over and over again.

And over and over.


Then, over and over again.

And over and over.

Then, over and over again.

And over and over.

Thank you for noticing, consistency is important in life especially when so many people flip flop from game to game, performance by performance. Rob sucks, now hes good, our team is good, now we suck... I tend to stick with the never too high, never too low theory. The only thing thats wrong with your post, is naming only two people. This is a message board where people post opinions, and with any consistency in thought you tend to discuss the same ideas as often as other posters bring them up. I merely pointed out something many posters including yourself would agree with in general.

As much as I post, the things I repeat are usually in response to someone else posting "the same thing". I don't get offended or overly sensitive at some stuff I read, it's the way message boards work. Some people on here have very little hoops knowledge, others have a lot. Some posters know coaches, players, and have inside info, some don't. All these things influence why we think how we do, and expressing our opinions is the point of this board. Again, it's how message boards work. While we're at it, thank you for pointing something out that adds no substance to the thread, which you do over and over and over again. :cheers:

Saxon_zag
04-16-2012, 06:05 PM
Well, considering all of the guys who have transferred (we don't really know about Spangler) left for PT, I'd say yeah, it's silly they didn't at least give it a couple years.

And what D1 program did Batista transfer from...? And Dickau, well he transferred to a superior program and became a star on a superior team. So far, none of our transfers proved Coach Fews rotation wrong.

And maybe there is some sort of hypocrisy, but guess what? I don't care if a kid leaves UW for Gonzaga and becomes a star. That's great for Gonzaga. So sad for UW. Double standard? eh. Maybe. Clearly Dickau was a lot better than a bench rider at UW though. Our transfers have proved that they belonged on our bench.

I think Grant GIbbs to an extent proved Coach fews rotations wrong. You don't think we could have used another big smart guard that can control the game and make good decisions like him. David stockton played major minutes in our guard rotation this year. If grant Gibbs looked like a toddler against UNC as you said, I think some of our current guards may have looked like fetuses against the tar heels.

Jury is still out on whether having Many Arop transfer in favor of giving Mike Hart his minutes was a good thing ( I personally lean no).

Saxon_zag
04-16-2012, 06:08 PM
For the umpteenth time: Dickau was playing 15-20 min a game at the end of his fr year. In the last game against UCLA, w/ UW needing a win to make the NCAA's, DD was on the floor down the stretch, and it was his domination of Earl Watson in the last few minutes that overcame Toby Baileys' 31 point second half and got UW into the tourney. (I was there). They made the S16 as an 11 seed before losing to UCONN of Rip Hamilton's last second falling down prayer of a shot. Dan was the difference; without his emergence that team didn't have a prayer of making the tourney. He made 53% of his 3's that year, btw.

His soph yr he was starting pg, hobbling on a bad foot until a stress fracture ended his season in December.

Calling him a bench rider is highly inaccurate.


Wait are you saying 04zagfan was spouting about something he doesn't know the facts about? Crazy!!!

gamagin
04-16-2012, 06:42 PM
I think Grant GIbbs to an extent proved Coach fews rotations wrong. You don't think we could have used another big smart guard that can control the game and make good decisions like him. David stockton played major minutes in our guard rotation this year. If grant Gibbs looked like a toddler against UNC as you said, I think some of our current guards may have looked like fetuses against the tar heels.

Jury is still out on whether having Many Arop transfer in favor of giving Mike Hart his minutes was a good thing ( I personally lean no).

GG suffered serious injuries (first surgery requiring shoulder repair and then surgery requiring knee repair). By his account, he got lonesome for home and called a former recruiter who by then had become the coach at Creighton.

It was a good decision. GG wound up at Creighton, got time (a season off court to meet NCAA rules) to heal near home, and ultimately return to basketball closer to home. Win-win-win.

here's a feature on GG I think pretty much tells the tale. No mention of rotation issues & a Few failing like you offer up out of nowhere in particular.

http://tinyurl.com/7efw5op

There's no jury in the Manny story, either, as you suggest. There's a couple of guys like you who can't, won't or wouldn't EVER read or research or accept what happened when it was happening and still don't get it.

Manny washed out because of things Manny did or didn't do. I'm not going to trash him. I loved his game. But he was a victim of his own choices. Anyone not terribly lazy could figure this out by asking just about anyone close to the program about it. That's what I did. Hart had nothing to do with MA leaving GU, either. Other than perhaps beating him out in practice day after day.

Meantime, I hope MA becomes an all American at Indiana, I'm rooting for his success, and wish him all the best.

OK-ZagFan
04-16-2012, 06:55 PM
I handed Carnac an envelope with a question. Before he opened it he answered, Dower, Olynyk and Harris. He then read the question.... Name 3 bigs better than Ryan Spangler.


Another comedian - did Dower all of a sudden learn to play defense and unless Olynyk has gotten alot tougher during his redshirt year, you are only hoping. I guess I can't blame you because that is who you have right now. Time will tell

OK-ZagFan
04-16-2012, 07:44 PM
LOL it's clear you're not a GU fan. Now that Spangler has left, why trash on the Zags CURRENT players?

And when did Spangler become a good defensive player? Another "toughness" comment, haha I love this.

Dower>Spangler. And I'll take Olynyk too because he's a 7 footer with a 3 point stroke, and a vertical over 4 inches.

Probably the same reason a couple of you keep trashing Spangler just because he made the decision to transfer and I beleive Spanglers rebounding stats speak for themselves. I am still a Zag fan, I really like Pangos, Bell, Drainginis, Dower and Harris, but I also like Spangler and will get to see some of his games. We have transfers also out of OU and I don't recall this kind of redicule towards any of them, but you have now been a Spangler fan even while he was there so I understand why you are like you are.

ZagaZags
04-16-2012, 09:50 PM
Another comedian - did Dower all of a sudden learn to play defense and unless Olynyk has gotten alot tougher during his redshirt year, you are only hoping. I guess I can't blame you because that is who you have right now. Time will tell

That is not trash talk, it just a fact. He would not get many minutes next season with those guys on the team. I love Spangler. I wish he stayed and had a RS next year and come back with 3 years to play. I was just making a point that we did not lose a player that was going to be a starter next season and things will be fine.
But make it CLEAR i love Spangler and wish he stayed. If Ryan wanted to be a Zag he should have taken the RS and have 2 or 3 years to start for the Zags. Not everyone can be a true Zag.

MDABE80
04-17-2012, 01:14 AM
LOL it's clear you're not a GU fan. Now that Spangler has left, why trash on the Zags CURRENT players?

And when did Spangler become a good defensive player? Another "toughness" comment, haha I love this.

Dower>Spangler. And I'll take Olynyk too because he's a 7 footer with a 3 point stroke, and a vertical over 4 inches.

OK ZagFan is a very good and sincere Zag Fan. Wish we had mor elike him.

EuroZag2010
04-17-2012, 03:38 AM
"trash"? lame. I haven't trashed him. Just said he's no longer a Zags and he quit on the Zags. That's all. No name calling from me.

And if his rebounding stats speak for themselves, I agree. A whopping 2.2 per game. But hey, he did have 10 against Longwood and 8 against West Virginia. Move over, Charles.

IMHO Ryan left because of playing time and his family more so he probably felt this "business" Few runs wasnt for him. It wasn't all cozy all the time.

cjm720
04-17-2012, 08:04 AM
My take: Few has high expectations and lofty goals. He brings in players that he hopes to propel the program. If they don't match his expectations he defaults to players he trust.

Just like in any business, it's not the smartest or most skilled, it's the person that has the trust of an owner or manager to get the job done.