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cggonzaga
03-19-2012, 02:15 PM
Team expectations:
At least Sweet 16 even without Harris. An offense that averages around 80ppg and gives up only 65ppg. Continuance of fantastic team chemistry.

Player expectations: what we should expect not what their ceilings are.

Kevin Pangos - 13ppg 5apg. Kevin should be more of a playmaker next season by getting others involved and not looking so much for his own shot. He is a great passer even though we didn't always see it this year because we needed him to score. His points will come much more efficiently off of less shots. His defense could get a little better but it's already pretty good.

Gary Bell Jr. - 14ppg 3apg 3rpg. Gary clearly needs to shoot the ball more both on the drive and from beyond the arc. He's practically the only player on the team that can break someone down. He could also become more of a playmaker. Gary should remain a shut down defender.

Guy Landry Edi - 6ppg 4rpg. Guy should be the emotional leader of the team. Scoring should rise a tad and he should attack the basket better with better ballhandling. Rebounding numbers should rise with a little more playing time. Should also continue to play near shut down defense.

Elias Harris - 16ppg 10rbg. Elias should be the best player on the team. Should be go to guy on offense as he can play inside and out. He should dominate the boards. Should be an all american candidate. Defense should continue to improve.

Sam Dower - 14ppg 6rpg. Sam is clearly the best low post scorer on the team with the ability to occassionally step out. He will have games of 20+ and games of -10. Sam should be a much improved rebounder. Low post defense will be critical for Sam to stay on the floor late in games.

Kyle Dranginis - 6ppg 4apg 3rpg. Kyle will be the ultimate all around player that does a little of everything. He will also be one of the top shooters from distance on the team with the ability to get to the basket. Should be a solid defender.

Kelly Olynek - 8ppg 5rbg. Kelly will be best post player off the bench. Kelly will be another do it all type of player and is one of the better passers on the team. He will score from inside and out. Could also be our best low post defender.

Mark McLaughlin - 6ppg. If Mark or ADV is signed its for one reason; to provide instant scoring off the bench from the 3 position. Should be capable defender.

Ryan Spangler - 4ppg 4rpg. Only reason numbers won't be higher is because playing time will still be limited but he will get more. Best rebounder on the team per minutes played. Should be improved defender.

David Stockton, Mike Hart, Chris Sarbaugh - All these guys bring different things to the team and will be used when necessary. Team will be extremely deep next season so minutes will be hard to come by. I believe David loses minutes to Dranginis but probably sees decent minutes. Hart is the tough one here. To me, Edi is clearly the starter and if you're bringing in McLaughlin you're not bringing him in to sit. Maybe Spangler redshirts and Mike gets minutes at the 4 much like Pendo.

What are your expectations for the team and players next season?

ZagaZags
03-19-2012, 03:36 PM
Wow, that would be fun:)

cggonzaga
03-19-2012, 04:32 PM
I believe we can average around 80ppg next season.

Obviously each player doesn't hit their averages every game ;)

maynard g krebs
03-19-2012, 08:53 PM
I believe we can average around 80ppg next season.

Obviously each player doesn't hit their averages every game ;)

No, but they have to have games over their averages too. If everybody averages that, the team has to, by definition, average 87 unless players lose time to injury. And that's 87 for the top 8 players

And scoring is down across the board. Iona led the country at 82.9, UNC was 2nd at 82. Six teams reached an average of 80. Zags tied for 43rd in scoring at 73.8. So it looks, unfortunately for those who like scoring, like 75 ppg for a team is the new 80.

Oregonzagnut
03-19-2012, 09:32 PM
That means better tempo management and patience. With our backcourt being 33 games older and smarter, an average of 12 TO'pg is very possible, AND we'll get more steals and assists too.

Olynyk is our wild card IMO. He will need to step up his aggressiveness to even come close to following in Sacre's footsteps. But he will have a trickle down effect on the rest of the team because everyone can stay in the same spots they were in this year and we can run the same offense with a 7 footer. The chemistry and efficiency will be off the charts for Gonzaga. IMO at least.

But of course, Harris needs to return, Stockton needs to hit the weight room, and our incoming redshirts, freshman and transfers need to fulfill their roles and do exactly as Few says.

Vanzagger
03-19-2012, 09:57 PM
I erased the original expectation. Here's the more positive version.

I expect Few to try and keep growing and think big. Kick down a door. It's your time.

roxdoc
03-20-2012, 12:04 PM
As it sits right now I think we are about a wash with this year, round of 32, with lucky draw possible 16. Real fight with SMC for league. Pangos, Edi & Bell marginally improved. Harris steady. Dranginis the biggest plus, loss of Sacre (mostly D) not very well replaced.

Now if the big K comes and we get a good scoring 3 then we have a better chance at 16, or with a little luck go further.

Robzagnut
03-20-2012, 12:27 PM
#3 seed in the West bracket. Meaning they finish in the Top 10 next year.

ZagLawGrad
03-20-2012, 02:14 PM
As it sits right now I think we are about a wash with this year, round of 32, with lucky draw possible 16. Real fight with SMC for league. .

Spot on, but add that it will take a very strong luck streak to reach field of 16
Harris leaves?---forget about advancing past the first weekend, and look for a second place or lower conference finish.

ZagLawGrad
03-20-2012, 02:15 PM
#3 seed in the West bracket. Meaning they finish in the Top 10 next year.

Crazy IMO. But admire your optimism.

cggonzaga
03-20-2012, 03:27 PM
Crazy IMO. But admire your optimism.

Just curious ZLG, why so pessimistic about next season? We return everybody next year except Sacre and Carter. This year's team should've could've made the Sweet 16 had it not had to play the top 2 seed in the 2nd round. That being said we nearly beat them while not even playing all that well. We also did that with freshmen starting in the backcourt. They're only going to get better especially considering their unbelievable work ethics. Even though we haven't signed anybody yet for next year its almost like we're picking up a couple top 50 prospects in Dranginis and Olynek. Why so pessimistic?

ZagHouse
03-20-2012, 05:26 PM
Does Sarbaugh have any chance of cracking the rotation? The kid has some size and had a better resume' coming out of high school than our current backup. If none of the other recruits don't work out. After all, it wouldn't be the first time Few has given minutes to a non-scholarship player.

BobZag
03-20-2012, 05:39 PM
I have said before, multiple times, that this team is built (and being built) to improve every year. For instance, this team was better than last year's team. Next year's team will be better than this year's team. The year after next year's team will be better than next year's team. And so on.

If we can nab one of ADV/McLaughlin and Karno, that enhances what I expect above. If we can get Lavine, that keeps it going even longer.

The Boise Elite (AAU) coach told me flat-out that Dranginis was the best shooter in the west. That's what he said after a summer of AAU ball, I'm just passing it on. I don't know if it's true or not, but if I choose to dial that statement back a bit, I'd still say Kyle is pretty good and will only add to my expectations.

And what I've heard--not seen, but only heard--is Kelly is also pretty darn good, maybe better than expected.

It all looks good and promising to me.

CaliforniaZaggin'
03-20-2012, 05:46 PM
Crazy IMO. But admire your optimism.

Optimism is part of what makes sports and being a fan so much fun. Try it. ;)

maynard g krebs
03-20-2012, 05:49 PM
I have higher hopes for next season than for the last, assuming Harris is back. I expect to see Gary Bell to regularly play like he did against WV and tOSU, and I expect Pangos to benefit from a more assertive Bell, as well as the addition of Dranginis and maybe someone else who can score on the wing. He had to take on more of the scoring load than he should have this year, and with more perimeter scoring around him, I believe he's smart enough to distribute in games when he's cold.

Rob is a big loss on the defensive end, but it's not unreasonable to expect a lot of development from KO. Overall, the front line could be better enough on the offensive end to negate the loss of Rob on D.

With KO and KD added, next years team will shoot and pass the ball as well as anyone in the country, as well as a couple of premier perimeter defenders in Bell and Guy.

I think, with Karnowski and McLaughlin or Della Valle, and maybe even without those guys, a 3-4 seed type of season is very possible.

rennis
03-20-2012, 05:52 PM
And what I've heard--not seen, but only heard--is Kelly is also pretty darn good, maybe better than expected.

It all looks good and promising to me.

Kelly has all the pieces to be very very good. He's an NBA-type product, we'll see if he can play to his perceived potential.

I think next year will be an excellent year in Gonzaga hoops.

zagray
03-20-2012, 07:23 PM
If Harris keeps improving on defense and ball handling I'd like to see him at the 3, shots better then Hart or Guy. Dower will play the 5, KO at the 4. Harris will have to keep his weight down and work on his lateral quickness. If it worked out we would be top ten.

bartruff1
03-20-2012, 08:17 PM
And everyone improves (some alot)...plus or minus 2 or 3 games... contend for the Conference Championship and the WCC Tourney... have to see some actual games (including other WCC teams) to make a reasonable estimate.. of NCAA Tourney potential...

bullzag23
03-20-2012, 08:55 PM
I want to know.....with Rob gone, who does the opening tip? KO, Dower.....or E!?

ZagLawGrad
03-20-2012, 11:22 PM
Just curious ZLG, why so pessimistic about next season? We return everybody next year except Sacre and Carter. This year's team should've could've made the Sweet 16 had it not had to play the top 2 seed in the 2nd round. That being said we nearly beat them while not even playing all that well. We also did that with freshmen starting in the backcourt. They're only going to get better especially considering their unbelievable work ethics. Even though we haven't signed anybody yet for next year its almost like we're picking up a couple top 50 prospects in Dranginis and Olynek. Why so pessimistic?

Recent history, mostly. We've heard the hype for a few years now and it is ringing hollow at times. This year, no WCC title or tournament championship. Bowing out of the Dance early again. Some unproven players that are being hyped up with no real track record. I'll have to see it first before I buy into the hype about Dranginis, the new improved KO, Spangler with more playing time, Sam with some big defensive shoes to fill with RS's departure, just to name a few. While GBJ and Pangos look good, they will need a potent supporting cast inside to win the conference. Elias will be a big factor in all of this, so hope he stays. I'll be surprised if next year's version is better than what we just saw.

bartruff1
03-21-2012, 12:53 AM
Recent history, mostly. We've heard the hype for a few years now and it is ringing hollow at times. This year, no WCC title or tournament championship. Bowing out of the Dance early again. Some unproven players that are being hyped up with no real track record. I'll have to see it first before I buy into the hype about Dranginis, the new improved KO, Spangler with more playing time, Sam with some big defensive shoes to fill with RS's departure, just to name a few. While GBJ and Pangos look good, they will need a potent supporting cast inside to win the conference. Elias will be a big factor in all of this, so hope he stays. I'll be surprised if next year's version is better than what we just saw. I don't think that is pessimistic at all. It is realistic. I have only been disappointed twice by my estimate since this run began......

JAGzag
03-21-2012, 04:07 AM
Recent history, mostly. We've heard the hype for a few years now and it is ringing hollow at times. This year, no WCC title or tournament championship. Bowing out of the Dance early again. Some unproven players that are being hyped up with no real track record. I'll have to see it first before I buy into the hype about Dranginis, the new improved KO, Spangler with more playing time, Sam with some big defensive shoes to fill with RS's departure, just to name a few. While GBJ and Pangos look good, they will need a potent supporting cast inside to win the conference. Elias will be a big factor in all of this, so hope he stays. I'll be surprised if next year's version is better than what we just saw.

+1. Little too early for hype. If anything, take Rob off the team and match this year's team against current opponents, that's all we can do. Dranginis as the next great shooter, Kelly suddenly learns to play inside and each other player somehow improves drastically over the summer ... fun to speculate, but that's all it is until mid point next season.

BULLDOG#1
03-21-2012, 08:22 AM
Losses: Sacre + Carter (maybe a transfer)

Gains: KO + KD (possibly the karn kid and a better 3)

Plus: Another year in the system for Bell, Pangos, Edi

Intangibles: team chemistry (this year was great) Harris' play (closed this season great).

Hard to imagine the team not being better. A more seasoned backcourt of Pangos and Bell should lift the whole team. If Pangos keeps it up and Bell and Harris play like they did at the end of this season, the sky is the limit.

Rob will be missed, but I think the smart play and perimeter games of KO and KD more than make up for the loss. It changes the team quite a bit - making it more perimeter oriented but that's not a bad thing.

No matter if you start Sam or KO, all five starters are serious threats from beyond the arc. Combine that with solid guard play and you've got a team that should be in the top 20 all year. sweet-16 potential for sure.

Robzagnut
03-21-2012, 08:24 AM
Crazy IMO. But admire your optimism.


Three maybe four losses should keep them in the Top 10. I don’t see next year’s team losing more than that.

* Pangos and Bell – one year older and more experienced.
* Dranginis – will fill the 3rd guard spot perfectly and could be better than P or B.
* Stockton – will be a wily junior. Great job against Ohio State.
* Edi – will play a full season and helps the team match up athletically.
* Dower – adds scoring, takes away from the defense.
* Harris – solid double-double guy every night.
* Olynyk – stronger with a full year to develop, but still has guard skills and vision.
* Spangler – Mr. Rebound is Pendo, but 2 inches taller.

This is an excellent core group. Scoring, defense, passing, experience and excellent 3 point shooting. Most importantly, they have chemistry. Add any one of the recruits to this group and you have the makings of a Top 10 team.

I’m not only optimistic, I’m excited.

cggonzaga
03-21-2012, 08:56 AM
Add any one of the recruits to this group and you have the makings of a Top 10 team

Should Harris return I'd be surprised if we weren't top 12 to begin the year. I also see us in the top 10 throughout as long as we don't lose more than 3.

gamagin
03-21-2012, 09:12 AM
Three maybe four losses should keep them in the Top 10. I dont see next years team losing more than that.

* Pangos and Bell one year older and more experienced.
* Dranginis will fill the 3rd guard spot perfectly and could be better than P or B.
* Stockton will be a wily junior. Great job against Ohio State.
* Edi will play a full season and helps the team match up athletically.
* Dower adds scoring, takes away from the defense.
* Harris solid double-double guy every night.
* Olynyk stronger with a full year to develop, but still has guard skills and vision.
* Spangler Mr. Rebound is Pendo, but 2 inches taller.

This is an excellent core group. Scoring, defense, passing, experience and excellent 3 point shooting. Most importantly, they have chemistry. Add any one of the recruits to this group and you have the makings of a Top 10 team.

Im not only optimistic, Im excited.

well said. For me, KO getting and staying & playing with his feet placed where they belong, under him, squared up, might just bring tears of joy to mine eyes.

BULLDOG#1
03-21-2012, 09:19 AM
losing only 3 games would be a shock to me. I do think the team will be better next year, but BYU and SMC will definately be gunning for us. It will be tough to hold our in-conference losses to a couple.

OOC, we've got some tough games lined up -- I suspect we'll lose a couple of them as well.

With what should be a very tough schedule and the improvement of the WCC, I can see the zags near the top 10 with 4-5 losses.

jim77
03-21-2012, 09:55 AM
This team was a whisker away from making it to the elite 8. Our ball movement against OSU was terrific for the first 15 minutes. The last 25 it was spotty. So what could we have done to win the game? Well, we played a physical game against WV and another physical game against OSU....and we wore down. I think our skills and players are fine...we need to make our conditioning a bit better. I'm not saying were not well conditioned...I'm just saying that if we could have kept that ball movement up for 35 minutes we may have won the game. Go look at most of ther teams left in the tourney and what their main weapon is....The big 10 group is physical and can take it to you all game long....Cincy the same thing.....NC doesn't tire either. Physicality is why we lost to MIch. ST and Illinois. Do we need to get more physical??? NO....but we need to get to the point where we can keep our ball movement good for 40 minutes. We need to increase our endurance. We lost to USF because they played harder than us...Remember the heart monitors? Remember UNLV? Its hard to beat what you can't catch.

I'd suggest an off season endurance training plan such as group cycling as a way to promote teamwork and save on the knees while at the same time building endurance. We don't need better players or a better coach or a better plan....we need the ability to execute that plan for 40 full hard minutes. ....and Spokane has some great bike trails. Time for the 15 man Peloton.

Remember when Big Rob said: "we need to match their intensity"? We exceeded their intensity for most of the first half...and they were a bit stunned. In fact, they had to play darn near perfect ball to stay with us.....then what happened? We slowed down ...and then we simply relied on 1 on 1 ball to try and win. Had we kept that ball movement things may have ended different. We're very close...

ZagLawGrad
03-21-2012, 10:36 AM
I have said before, multiple times, that this team is built (and being built) to improve every year. For instance, this team was better than last year's team...

Bob---this is debatable. The records and results of the two teams don't seem to fit your comment.

BobZag
03-21-2012, 10:38 AM
I meant Boise Flight, not Boise Elite. My bad.