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MickMick
03-18-2012, 10:46 AM
Don't believe it. Don't pitch it. Don't hang your hat on it.

The tournament is a single elimination crap shoot. You have to be really good and you have to be a little lucky.

Even if Rob was coming back, GU is one consistent scoring threat short of crossing the threshold. GU has to compensate for a space eating, defensive presence in the middle, and they need another consistent point producer.

04ZagFan
03-18-2012, 10:54 AM
I don't think we need another consistent point producer.. What we need is consistency from the 2012-2013 team.

Pangos
Bell
Harris(assuming he's back)
Dower

Are all players who can go and get 20+ on any given night. That's good enough. We don't need all 4 to score 20 every night, but if we avoid Pangos' 3-15 games, and Dower gets more touches (which he will without Rob next year) we've got the scorers to make a run. I see no reason why 4 very good scorers isn't enough. Kelly, Guy, and Dranginis should also be able to contribute some offense. Any points from Spangler and Stocks is gravy.

Ekrub
03-18-2012, 10:57 AM
Final Four talk is what gets my juices flowing. I'll buy into it. Looking at the talent we have coming back, it's a possibility.

btzag
03-18-2012, 10:58 AM
Don't like the final four talk, would much prefer Elite Eight talk. :D

Bell develops more into an aggressive scoring 2-guard.

Pangos gets more consistent and learns to distribute first, score second.

E returns.

Dower brings the fire every game and gets 5 more shots a game.

Edi solidifies his role and is completely natural in the offense.

Spangler takes big step forward and provides a physical hard nosed presence.

KO and Dranginis bring borderline starting play off the bench. Instant offense and great size at their positions.

Newcomers????? Karnowski, Del Valle, ???

My opinion is that this group has Elite Eight potential but really you need to put yourself in a 2 or 3 seed position to realize this. If you are a 7 seed you are just hoping to upset someone to get to that level. But regardless this team has the talent and experience now at every position to get to.....?

Oregonzagnut
03-18-2012, 10:59 AM
Don't believe it. Don't pitch it. Don't hang your hat on it.

The tournament is a single elimination crap shoot. You have to be really good and you have to be a little lucky.

Even if Rob was coming back, GU is one consistent scoring threat short of crossing the threshold. GU has to compensate for a space eating, defensive presence in the middle, and they need another consistent point producer.

The KO punch is coming! 7 feet of unassuming, bow tie wearing PAIN is coming our opponents way.

KO can toss the clipboard, because as of now, HIS REDSHIRT IS OVER!!!

Any 7 footer with a consistent hook shot can score 10 points a game on one leg. If Kelly can overcome his lack of aggressiveness in the paint and shoot the 5 footer, we're golden.

U Zig, I Zag
03-18-2012, 11:20 AM
2012/13 is 11/12 part deux unless we have a solid #3 that can create.

Edi needs to change his offensive game (unlikely, he is who he is: a great defender and a great athlete, but not a ball player in the sense that the other kids are) or Kyle D (or whomever) needs to step up and fill that role.

My biggest disappointments of there year were:
Rob's inability to finish better than he did the year before. That last 3 inches at the rim is all he really ever needed.
MM's aggressiveness (there is none)

GBJ is legit. He will end up being the star of the team. We should have been going to him as option 1 a lot more than we did. He is just such a good teammate and thinker that he deferred too often on offense. I thought Pangos would be Bouldin Jr in Few's eyes and GBJ would be mini-Gray. I had it backwards: Few's go to man will be Bell. Hell, he threw it off the backboard on a (failed) breakaway against our newest rival, BYU and STAYED IN THE GAME.

A #3 that can score and create and a big that plays at rim level (KO?). Those should be priorities 1 and 2. Whether we bring someone in or develop what we have, that's what we need to get past the first weekend next year.

ZagLawGrad
03-18-2012, 11:50 AM
Don't believe it. Don't pitch it. Don't hang your hat on it.....GU has to compensate for a space eating, defensive presence in the middle, and they need another consistent point producer.

Won't disagree one bit with this.

BobZag
03-18-2012, 11:55 AM
2012/13 is 11/12 part deux unless we have a solid #3 that can create.

This is Priority #1 for the staff. Expect it to be remedied as early as this spring, which officially begins in a few days.

CaliforniaZaggin'
03-18-2012, 11:58 AM
March Madness is like a poker tournament. Even the very best player is still a long shot to win it.

ZagLawGrad
03-18-2012, 11:59 AM
2012/13 is 11/12 part deux unless we have a solid #3 that can create.....

Good analysis. I think there's a bit more to it in getting past the first weekend, but your point is well taken

Reborn
03-18-2012, 11:59 AM
Even if Rob was coming back, GU is one consistent scoring threat short of crossing the threshold. GU has to compensate for a space eating, defensive presence in the middle, and they need another consistent point producer.

MickMick is right. Zags will NEED to find a BIG as tough as Rob, and who can step up and defend superstars. The ONE person whom I think is tough as nails is Ryan Spangler. Is he ready for the offensive end of the court though? How many points do we need out of the low post?

The strengths that Kelly brings to the team will be another guy who can hit 3's. We have to remember that Kelly was once a guard. I think Kelly is a very good passer (which Robert was not, which Sam is not), and I think that a post player who can pass is invaluable. My memory of Kelly was also that he could rebound pretty well.

Two years ago Kelly's main criticism was that he was still clumsy and was still not used to being in his very large body. I think he will definitely be more used to by next Fall.

The biggest concern that I have is the same one MickMick has, and that is about our #3 position players and their inability to shoot the outside shot. Can Edi develop an outside shot? Can Mike Hart? How good is Dranginis? How tough is he defensively? Will Harris be moved to the 3?

Who will the two new guys be? How good will they be? Will either of them be able to contribute?

I think another question that needs to be asked is whether Keita and Monninghoff will be back. Will there be more then two scholarships available for next year?

Until I see how these questions and concerns I will not be making any predictions at all about how good GU will be next year, but I do agree with Bobzag. They will be better next year then they were this, and that is the GOOD NEWS.

bartruff1
03-18-2012, 12:18 PM
Final Four Talk....Where ?....at Kentucky...

rijman
03-18-2012, 12:50 PM
This is Priority #1 for the staff. Expect it to be remedied as early as this spring, which officially begins in a few days.
I look forward to reading your cryptic updates on this topic in the near future.

BTW- Thank you BobZag for all you do to keep us updated on all things Zag basketball. I wanted to PM you with my thanks, but found that was not possible. I came to this forum after my father passed a few years ago, we use to talk daily, he kept me updated on the Zags from his friends inside and outside the Zags program. (my dad went to GU on a basketball scholarship in the 50's and remained a diehard Zags fan until the end) Now this forum keeps me in the Zags loop from San Diego, which I really appreciate, so thank you for all your efforts.

bartruff1
03-18-2012, 12:58 PM
March Madness is like a poker tournament. Even the very best player is still a long shot to win it.... look at the gangsters....they may reach the elite eight !!!

bballbeachbum
03-18-2012, 12:59 PM
GBJ is legit.....He is just such a good teammate and thinker that he deferred too often on offense.

vs. TOSU, GBJ's mini explosion in the second half included David and Mike both on the floor with him

NEC26
03-18-2012, 01:17 PM
This is Priority #1 for the staff. Expect it to be remedied as early as this spring, which officially begins in a few days.

I have a feeling that three is already on this team. I almost wish he hadn't redshirted this year. I think KD will be a huge piece for our team next year.

NotoriousZ
03-18-2012, 01:38 PM
I have a feeling that three is already on this team. I almost wish he hadn't redshirted this year. I think KD will be a huge piece for our team next year.

Yeah, gimme some Drangs, Spangs, and Pangs. I would also go for some Bell, big time. And come on back, E, we need ya!

MDABE80
03-18-2012, 01:44 PM
I think we need a wing and an athletic big...REALLY good ones. Not the kids who looks good and we bank on potential. Under the radar kids do get better but do they get THAT much better? I haven't seen it often.

Before the E8 or FF talk gets going though, I'd like to see a GU team that absolutely devastates the OOC and the WCC. Not like this past year....beat the crap out of USF and SMC. We need that level of performance....before we talk about the high end NCAA stuff. As the recruiting is going right now, we surely do have some fine kids in the program but Few needs to fully understand he has missing pieces to compliment the kids we have now.
Where he finds them is unknown.

I mean seriously guy, we didn't have a spectacular tournament but we did have a very good one. We could have walked away with a win with OSU...we didn't. We need that type of winning to progress further. Few needs to not settle because he has a spot available. Get the right kids....and we step forward. We get mediocre or kids "with some promise to be above average" and we'll stay as we are now.
We're good now...we need to get better. Nothing changes if nothing changes....

BobZag
03-18-2012, 02:27 PM
I look forward to reading your cryptic updates on this topic in the near future.

BTW- Thank you BobZag for all you do to keep us updated on all things Zag basketball. I wanted to PM you with my thanks, but found that was not possible. I came to this forum after my father passed a few years ago, we use to talk daily, he kept me updated on the Zags from his friends inside and outside the Zags program. (my dad went to GU on a basketball scholarship in the 50's and remained a diehard Zags fan until the end) Now this forum keeps me in the Zags loop from San Diego, which I really appreciate, so thank you for all your efforts.

It's my pleasure. Send Hondo a PM on who your father was. Chances are, he knew him or knew of him. Thanks.

MDABE80
03-18-2012, 02:37 PM
Very nice post rij...Bob's a jewel. WE WUVS HIME FOR HIS WORK:)

MickMick
03-18-2012, 05:15 PM
I agree with Bell being the guy that should get the green light when toughness is required. Pangos is tough as nails when it comes to getting smacked in the face but I like him as a passer first and a "catch n shoot" type scorer. I would rather that Bell get his runner/floater rehearsed to perfection when it comes to driving the lane. It is starting to look smooth now.

Kevin's best asset is ball distribution. On occasion his shooting gets on a crazy hot streak and I wish he could just bottle it up and sip from it at a more casual pace. It would be nicer if his scoring was evened out instead of such extreme highs and lows.

I have said all along that Kevin's scoring is just a bonus. He has to set up the playmakers and the playmakers have to finish. Bell and Edi are learning to finish but time just ran out on them before they could really get it together on the scoring end.

Birddog
03-18-2012, 05:50 PM
We need a shooter. This years version was short one shooter. Edi came close at times and looks good occasionally but isn't there yet despite his incredible athleticism. Hart's defense is better than Edi's too IMO, but Edi could close the gap. Dranginis might be the answer for a shooter.