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View Full Version : Winning ugly: more than ever, defense needed to win Big Dance



CDC84
03-13-2012, 12:34 PM
http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2012-03-13/ncca-tournament-2012-defense-uconn-march-madness

This article does a great job of statistically showing how defense is playing a bigger and bigger role in tournament success. Contrary to what some people think, this didn't always used to be the case. It used to be normal for a group like Indiana's 1987 national title team to put 97 points on the board in a national semifinal.

raise the zag
03-13-2012, 12:43 PM
Nice find, CDC.

Thank goodness our defensive mentality and game plan has improved, especially along the perimeter.

I've been wanting to say this for quite some time, yet I'd like to point out Kevin Pangos is no less of a defender than Meech Goodson was...less athletic & lateral quickness, yes, but much smarter and skilled. GBJ = to or even a bit better than Gray as a defender.

While the 2009 teams numbers are slightly better, they simple relied on NBA-length of Daye(7'5" wingspan), Heytvelt(7'2" wingspan), Downs(6'11" wingspan), et al to defend. They could alter and block shots at the rim with the best of 'em and guaranteed Elite 8/F4 type team if it wasn't for facing the best College team in the Modern Era.

Overall, this is far and away our best defensive squad, especially in terms of effort.

awberke
03-13-2012, 12:53 PM
Nice find, CDC.

Thank goodness our defensive mentality and game plan has improved, especially along the perimeter.

I've been wanting to say this for quite some time, yet I'd like to point out Kevin Pangos is no less of a defender than Meech Goodson was...less athletic & lateral quickness, yes, but much smarter and skilled. GBJ = to or even a bit better than Gray as a defender.


Kevin tries his ass off, that's usually how he gets two quick fouls. He's so active trying to get rebounds and such that he gets called.

GBJ is a much better perimeter defender than Gray was but Steve was 6'5", you can't teach that. Steve also had a knack for seeing where the ball was going and picking it off. But GBJ is much more disciplined.

The one thing i would like to see out of Gary defensively is trying to rebound more. He blocks out 3pt shooters so they don't get boards which is great, it really is, but with his size and Sacre's weak rebounding, we could use his help. Pangos rebounds better than he does.

SteelZag
03-13-2012, 01:17 PM
With respect to the 2008-2009 team, losses to Portland St. and Utah among others resulting in a 4 seed, once again shows the importance of winning all the games that they should win, which would have resulted in a better seeding. We can only dream 'what if' should they have gotten a 3 seed in a different bracket. Easily could have been an E8/F4 season as mentioned above.

rennis
03-13-2012, 01:33 PM
With respect to the 2008-2009 team, losses to Portland St. and Utah among others resulting in a 4 seed, once again shows the importance of winning all the games that they should win, which would have resulted in a better seeding. We can only dream 'what if' should they have gotten a 3 seed in a different bracket. Easily could have been an E8/F4 season as mentioned above.

if it weren't for Meech and the PDX Runner, it would have been a Sweet 32 Season.

bullzag23
03-13-2012, 01:46 PM
if it weren't for Meech and the PDX Runner, it would have been a Sweet 32 Season.

We can't say that for sure. The game was tied when he hit the shot so we would have had OT to settle the game.


With respect to the 2008-2009 team, losses to Portland St. and Utah among others resulting in a 4 seed, once again shows the importance of winning all the games that they should win, which would have resulted in a better seeding. We can only dream 'what if' should they have gotten a 3 seed in a different bracket. Easily could have been an E8/F4 season as mentioned above.

If we hadn't lost to PSU(the most glaring loss of the year, at home no less) we were a likely 3 seed or better and don't even face Akron/WKU, etc. If only...

MDABE80
03-13-2012, 02:06 PM
defense wins championships

Vanzagger
03-13-2012, 03:36 PM
With respect to the 2008-2009 team, losses to Portland St. and Utah among others resulting in a 4 seed, once again shows the importance of winning all the games that they should win, which would have resulted in a better seeding. We can only dream 'what if' should they have gotten a 3 seed in a different bracket. Easily could have been an E8/F4 season as mentioned above.

someone had to say it.

1)Don't play guys out of position so you can squeeze favorites onto the floor.
2)Don't redshirt 7ft juniors who started the year before.
3)Defense 1st
4)If you been ranked in the top 20 pre season polls several years in a row, don't continually try to talk down expectations because so and so graduated. Blow them away for once. It will help recruiting.
5)I loved St Mary's shirts. Hello..... wake up call.
6)If you have Sam,E,KO, and Rob on the same team for 3 straight years you better do something or history will not be kind. Now is the time.

VinnyZag
03-13-2012, 04:02 PM
2)Don't redshirt 7ft juniors who started the year before.

Factually incorrect. Kelly Olynyk started zero games last year.

DixieZag
03-13-2012, 04:07 PM
someone had to say it.

1)Don't play guys out of position so you can squeeze favorites onto the floor.
2)Don't redshirt 7ft juniors who started the year before.
3)Defense 1st
4)If you been ranked in the top 20 pre season polls several years in a row, don't continually try to talk down expectations because so and so graduated. Blow them away for once. It will help recruiting.
5)I loved St Mary's shirts. Hello..... wake up call.
6)If you have Sam,E,KO, and Rob on the same team for 3 straight years you better do something or history will not be kind. Now is the time.

Come on Vanzagger, questioning red-shirting KO? A move he has openly embraced and thinks is best? Talking DOWN expectations when your guards are freshmen - and we don't know what was said behind closed doors? Don't play guys out of position to squeeze favorites on the floor -- -- I know David has been a TO machine but he was a huge weapon early in the year (against good competition) nothing wrong with trying to get that back and I don't think Few plays favorites, he plays to win. Sam, E, KO, Rob can only do as well as the guards around them AND need a 3 to keep teams honest.

We are finally coming out of a difficult recruiting period where we hit some rough spots, funny it coincided with assistants leaving for USD and BSU - but now that seems to be coming around. I am not a complete apologist, but . . . perspective.

gonzagacfen
03-13-2012, 04:39 PM
Factually incorrect. Kelly Olynyk started zero games last year.

Actually, Kelly started 4 games last season. You may have forgotten that Few started the season off with a 3 bigs starting lineup with Elias at the 3.

http://www.gozags.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=26400&ATCLID=205173776

Vanzagger
03-13-2012, 05:13 PM
did start 3 bigs. I think we sort of panicked when E hurt his foot and we lost a close one at home. San Diego State was legit but dang every bounce went their way. Changing the starting line up every week did not serve us well.

kitzbuel
03-13-2012, 07:00 PM
Contrary to what some people think, this didn't always used to be the case.

Thanks to coaches like Tony Bennett.

VinnyZag
03-13-2012, 08:15 PM
I pulled down a PDF of their stats from last year, and it said 0 GS. But I do recall the unsuccessful three-big experiment now that you mention it. Still, it is factually incorrect to say Olynyk "started" last year, just as it would be factually incorrect to say Stockton "started" this year.

caduceus
03-13-2012, 11:28 PM
Interesting article. Strange that there's no mention of moving the 3-pt line back, which I suspect has at least some influence on total points as well.

What I find even more interesting (not from the article though) is that defense has little, if any, control over an opponent's 3-point shooting percentage.

Mountaineer
03-13-2012, 11:52 PM
please let this be the sloppiest and ugliest damn game of the tournament. That will be WVU's best chance of winning lol