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Angelo Roncalli
03-12-2012, 06:21 AM
GU: #27

http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2012-03-11/kentucky-snares-no-1-overall-seed

Martin Centre Mad Man
03-12-2012, 06:26 AM
That's interesting. As the No. 48 seed, BYU probably should have been seeded as a 12 or 13. I guess the "no play on Sunday" rule paired with their early matchup against IONA forced them down a couple of notches.

GoZags
03-12-2012, 06:35 AM
Was interesting to see the pundits (and some boardmembers) fall all over themselves talking up Creighton -- who, in some cases ended up 3 lines higher than Gonzaga in multiple "mock" brackets.

Turns out they were ranked below both Gonzaga and St. Mary's on the official list.

I'm hoping they do well in the dance. They are a great story this year.

jbslicer
03-12-2012, 06:51 AM
UDub should have gotten in, somewhere. Probably ahead of BYU.

Baldwinzag
03-12-2012, 06:55 AM
That's interesting. As the No. 48 seed, BYU probably should have been seeded as a 12 or 13. I guess the "no play on Sunday" rule paired with their early matchup against IONA forced them down a couple of notches.

Spot on.

Here's the verdict:


Another problem in bracketing was having to accommodate BYU in a Thursday-Saturday regional if the Cougars win the first round game in Dayton against Iona. BYU's policy against playing athletic events on Sundays forced the Cougars and Iona to No. 14 seeds -- the lowest at-large seed ever in the NCAA tournament, Worlock said.

Separating the three West Coast Conference teams -- BYU, Gonzaga and Saint Mary's -- was also an issue.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/tournament/2012/story/_/id/7674666/2012-men-ncaa-tournament-st-bonaventure-bonnies-win-canceled-vote-final-spot

Just_An_Old_Zag
03-12-2012, 07:16 AM
UDub should have gotten in, somewhere. Probably ahead of BYU.

I respectfully disagree. They belong in the NIT.
The N(ot) I(n) the T(ournament) Tourament :)

omahazag
03-12-2012, 07:24 AM
Was interesting to see the pundits (and some boardmembers) fall all over themselves talking up Creighton -- who, in some cases ended up 3 lines higher than Gonzaga in multiple "mock" brackets.

Turns out they were ranked below both Gonzaga and St. Mary's on the official list.

I'm hoping they do well in the dance. They are a great story this year.

Count me as one of the boardmemebers falling all over Creighton this year. And yes, I do feel they deserved better than a 8 seed - a 6 or 7 would have been a lot better. Think most of us creighton pundits have a legitimate argument there - but I guess that's what makes this whole thing fun.

Also, not sure why Creighton is a "great story" this year. If you mean they are finally back to the tourny after a few down years, then i get it. Anyway, glad you will be cheering for 2nd favorite team.

bartruff1
03-12-2012, 07:27 AM
UDub should have gotten in, somewhere. Probably ahead of BYU.....Conference Champions deserve to be in...period.. It doesn't matter to me if the Conference or the NCAA makes the decision and I know all the arguments against and respect them....I am simply of the opinion that they should be rewarded for their accomplishments. I will add that the idea that a conference would throw a game and risk a death penalty is just plain nuts..

cjm720
03-12-2012, 07:32 AM
Count me as one of the boardmemebers falling all over Creighton this year. And yes, I do feel they deserved better than a 8 seed - a 6 or 7 would have been a lot better. Think most of us creighton pundits have a legitimate argument there - but I guess that's what makes this whole thing fun.

Also, not sure why Creighton is a "great story" this year. If you mean they are finally back to the tourny after a few down years, then i get it. Anyway, glad you will be cheering for 2nd favorite team.

Coach's son, one of the nations leading story. Grant Gibbs. Winning the conference. Undefeated early in the season. Lots of reasons they're a good story to me.

23dpg
03-12-2012, 07:33 AM
....Conference Champions deserve to be in...period..

Bad argument. There are a lot of conferences. All but the Ivy League have chosen to have the tournament champion represent in the tourney. Don't blame the NCAA for this.

GoZags
03-12-2012, 07:36 AM
Coach's son, one of the nations leading story. Grant Gibbs. Winning the conference. Undefeated early in the season. Lots of reasons they're a good story to me.

This.

bullzag23
03-12-2012, 07:41 AM
....Conference Champions deserve to be in...period..

As others have mentioned it's up to the conference to decide how their automatic bid is awarded. The PAC-12 has the option to give it to the regular season champion, but they don't. It's not the NCAA's fault that UW played a terrible schedule either.

webspinnre
03-12-2012, 07:42 AM
Bad argument. There are a lot of conferences. All but the Ivy League have chosen to have the tournament champion represent in the tourney. Don't blame the NCAA for this.

Exactly. I've supported in the past the requirement that teams must finish .500 or better in conference to qualify, but each league has specifically chosen to give the auto-bid to the conf. tourney champ, except the Ivy League.

It should also be noted that UW's schedule in conference was easier than Cal's. Given how bad the Pac-12 was this year, little sympathy. And given how soft the bubble was, I wouldn't have had a problem with UW over BYU or Iona, but also have no problem with it being the other way.

Zagpower
03-12-2012, 07:42 AM
Creighton is a great story, but deserved their seeding. You can't get crushed at home in a Bracket Buster game by 21 like they did. I thought our resume was more impressive.

FlyZag
03-12-2012, 07:50 AM
UDub should have gotten in, somewhere. Probably ahead of BYU.

UW lost all 7 games against NCAA tournament competiton!!!!

ALL 7 games!!! How can you justify their inclusion with a straight face?

Because they were regular season conference champions??? There are a LOT of regular season conference champions that don't make the tournament because they lose in their conference tournament. The Huskies had their opportunities to prove they deserved a shot. They didn't capitalize on it.

rijman
03-12-2012, 07:55 AM
....Conference Champions deserve to be in...period..
The committee sent UW and others a message this year, play good teams OOC and beat someone (especially if your conference sucks), or face our rath. This may help force UW into restarting the GU/UW rivalry.

omahazag
03-12-2012, 07:56 AM
Creighton is a great story, but deserved their seeding. You can't get crushed at home in a Bracket Buster game by 21 like they did. I thought our resume was more impressive.

Not saying an 8 was way out of line, but I think road wins against Witchita State and San Diego State, and a home win against Long Beach State should have given them a higher seed than both my Zags and St. Mary's among other teams.

btw, the 21 point loss was to Witchita State, not a "bad" loss really considering how both teams played. The Bracket buster was against LBSC which creighton won.

bullzag23
03-12-2012, 08:12 AM
The committee sent UW and others a message this year, play good teams OOC and beat someone (especially if your conference sucks), or face our rath. This may help force UW into restarting the GU/UW rivalry.

Would we have wanted that hit on our RPI this year? :roll:

Zagpower
03-12-2012, 08:16 AM
oops, thanks for the correction on the Bracket Buster. The game with WSU was the game that I watched so I probably have a unrealistic view of this team compared to you guys that have watched them all season.

I's like to see conference tourneys go away for the most part and let the regular season champ get the automatic bid.

bullzag23
03-12-2012, 08:20 AM
I's like to see conference tourneys go away for the most part and let the regular season champ get the automatic bid.

Won't ever happen. Too much $$$$$$ involved.

gu03alum
03-12-2012, 08:20 AM
The committee sent UW and others a message this year, play good teams OOC and beat someone (especially if your conference sucks), or face our rath. This may help force UW into restarting the GU/UW rivalry.

They did play Duke, Marquette, St. Louis, and Nevada. It wasn't the OOC that really let them down, it was the conference schedule paired with the fact that they didn't beat any of those OOC teams.

cjm720
03-12-2012, 08:29 AM
....Conference Champions deserve to be in...period.. It doesn't matter to me if the Conference or the NCAA makes the decision and I know all the arguments against and respect them....I am simply of the opinion that they should be rewarded for their accomplishments. I will add that the idea that a conference would throw a game and risk a death penalty is just plain nuts..

But the conferences have to make some extra coin...LOL. It's why our top two teams get a double bye...conferences can chose and I'm cool with it.

Drew
03-12-2012, 08:40 AM
why are we arguing about UW in the ncaa? we should be discussing how many losses it would have taken UW to not make the NIT.

bullzag23
03-12-2012, 08:45 AM
why are we arguing about UW in the ncaa? we should be discussing how many losses it would have taken UW to not make the NIT.

Unfortunately they got an automatic bid into the NIT with the Pac-12 championship. Not much else though :D

Drew
03-12-2012, 08:54 AM
Unfortunately they got an automatic bid into the NIT with the Pac-12 championship. Not much else though :D


So, is that '2 more' losses and no NIT for UW?

rijman
03-12-2012, 09:14 AM
They did play Duke, Marquette, St. Louis, and Nevada. It wasn't the OOC that really let them down, it was the conference schedule paired with the fact that they didn't beat any of those OOC teams.
A friend told me the Pac 12 was 1-29 against the RPI top 50 OOC this season, which I haven't confirmed. Apparently the entire conference had problems beating any tough teams OOC. It's interesting that in years past winning the Pac 10 meant you beat ranked teams, so you definitely had the resume to get an NCAA bid without winning the conf tourney, but not this season.

bullzag23
03-12-2012, 09:22 AM
A friend told me the Pac 12 was 1-29 against the RPI top 50 OOC this season, which I haven't confirmed. Apparently the entire conference had problems beating any tough teams OOC. It's interesting that in years past winning the Pac 10 meant you beat ranked teams, so you definitely had the resume to get an NCAA bid without winning the conf tourney, but not this season.

IIRC the only top 50 win for the Pac-12 was Stanford over Colorado State.

gu03alum
03-12-2012, 09:27 AM
Cal lost 4 times in the pac 12 so the pac 12 had 5 top 50 wins total. It is true that the Pac 12 only had 1 OOC top 50 wins.

siliconzag
03-12-2012, 09:31 AM
Creighton is a great story, but deserved their seeding. You can't get crushed at home in a Bracket Buster game by 21 like they did. I thought our resume was more impressive.

First off they won the bracket buster game against a very good LBSU team. Secondly they beat SDSU on the road, a nearly impossible feat. Thirdly they clobbered Iowa in Iowa.

They had a very bad game against Wichita State in Omaha. Inexplicably bad, but we had a few stinkers as well, including a game that took place at War Memorial Gym and another in SLC, and another in Moraga. Creighton lost a few very close games, once teams figured out how to defend them. I think they are deserving of a better seed as well. In fact, just so we get away from the idea that Creighton and Gonzaga are competing somehow, I would say both teams got hosed by the committee. The Jays a bit more so, but both are under seeded. Unfortunately, neither team has the defensive competence to go very far. I think each will win their first and go down in a blaze of glory in their second. The Creighton UNC matchup has all kinds of drama however, and they have a chance, because UNC can't play defense very well either. Yesterday's win over FSU was partly predicated on the Seminoles going cold at the wrong time, and also turning the ball over.

Anyway, I agree with Omaha Zag. I will go one further and say that I think Wichita has a potential to make a deep run. They are bruisers.

Sili

awberke
03-12-2012, 09:33 AM
Cal lost 4 times in the pac 12 so the pac 12 had 5 top 50 wins total. It is true that the Pac 12 only had 1 OOC top 50 wins.

This.

In regard to giving auto-berths to regular season champs, I don't think that makes sense. The NCAA tourney is a tournament, just like every conference tourney. Inclusion should be dependent on how well you play in tournament format.

Look at UConn last year, I picked them as the national champs (toot toot) because they won the maui and the conference tourneys (and Kemba was Mr. Clutch), not because they finished 9th in the BE.

bullzag23
03-12-2012, 11:17 AM
Cal lost 4 times in the pac 12 so the pac 12 had 5 top 50 wins total. It is true that the Pac 12 only had 1 OOC top 50 wins.

Sorry, I forgot to mention the 'OOC' part. Too bad Cal didn't go 18-0 then it would have been true :D

Also Cal lost 5 times in Pac-12 regular season and 1 time in the tourney so technically Pac-12 had 6 top 50 wins.....5 of them against Cal

gu03alum
03-12-2012, 11:24 AM
Sorry, I forgot to mention the 'OOC' part. Too bad Cal didn't go 18-0 then it would have been true :D

Also Cal lost 5 times in Pac-12 regular season and 1 time in the tourney so technically Pac-12 had 6 top 50 wins.....5 of them against Cal

I can't count.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpnuaoGUfJ1qafrh6.gif

siliconzag
03-12-2012, 11:35 AM
Not saying an 8 was way out of line, but I think road wins against Witchita State and San Diego State, and a home win against Long Beach State should have given them a higher seed than both my Zags and St. Mary's among other teams.

btw, the 21 point loss was to Witchita State, not a "bad" loss really considering how both teams played. The Bracket buster was against LBSC which creighton won.

Couldn't agree more. Actually the blow out was Creighton's worst game and Wichita's best. It exposed Creighton's biggest defect: no defense. Therefore, when they go cold, they are very vulnerable. Actually, the first game against WSU was more representative of their true abilities. They came from behind to win it, just like they did at San Diego State in front of the zoo.

Creighton deserved a 6 or 7 seed in my opinion. The committee mistakenly regards the MVC as a patsy conference, which it is not.

Sili

UberZagFan
03-12-2012, 04:47 PM
UW lost all 7 games against NCAA tournament competiton!!!!

ALL 7 games!!! How can you justify their inclusion with a straight face?


This and nothing more, lenore.


Yesterday's win over FSU was partly predicated on the Seminoles going cold at the wrong time, and also turning the ball over.

Huh? Uber's filling out his bracket and trying to determine how far FSU will go and is giving them some extra credit because he thought they won the ACC tourney.

zagfan24
03-12-2012, 05:12 PM
Previous to this year, I would be interested to know what the highest conference rpi ranking is to not have their reg. season champ get in. I believe Pac-12 was ranked 9th...so not really a "power 6" conference deserving of an auto bit for the regular season champ.

McZag
03-12-2012, 05:23 PM
UDub should have gotten in, somewhere. Probably ahead of BYU.

Uw is where they belong NIA - not in again

NotoriousZ
03-12-2012, 05:49 PM
If the dub needs another quality game next year, wouldn't this be a good time to re-open talks with them about renewing our series (aka the Annual Beatdown)?

Come on, Lorenzo. But then again if they go 0-8 against next year's tourney teams instead of 0-7, it won't make much difference.

Bogozags
03-12-2012, 07:43 PM
UDub should have gotten in, somewhere. Probably ahead of BYU.

Let me begin by stating you are truly entitled to your opinion and I would fight to the death so that you maintained that right BUT...

No way they should of gotten in...they beat NO ONE and lost to SD at HOME! If I had my way Cal wouldn't of gotten in either...P12 should of been a 1 team conference and Drexel should of gotten in...

Not sure I understand the "love" for UW...they are a so-so team this year in a so-so conference...

African Zag
03-12-2012, 09:00 PM
Living on another continent, my most reliable source of information is the Internet. Most the projections had the Zags as a #8 seed. The #7 seed was truly fortunate though deserved, as noted by the #27 overall ranking.

Let's hope the Zags get by West Virginia and likey take on Ohio State.

Washington's record did not merit their inclusion in the field of 68 - a sad commentary of state of basketball in the PAC-10 during this past year.