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View Full Version : Michael Vick and Dogfighting



CDC84
07-17-2007, 01:58 PM
Here's a headline you don't see everyday:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-vickindictment&prov=ap&type=lgns

23dpg
07-17-2007, 02:05 PM
I am shocked and saddened at how prevalent dog fighting is in the macho world of the professional athlete.

In Portland, one player (Qytel Woods) fought dogs. Another (Zach Randolph) might have. Just sick.

lothar98zag
07-17-2007, 02:18 PM
If he never played another game in the NFL it wouldn't bother me one bit.

Angelo Roncalli
07-17-2007, 02:26 PM
I just finished reading the grand jury indictment.

There's a saying that a "good prosecutor could get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich." That's because all of the evidence presented to a grand jury is from the prosecution side, the prosecutor can ask leading questions, and there is no cross examination of grand jury witness.

Nevertheless, reading this indictment, it's clear that the feds have the cooperation of a number of fighting dog owners who staged bouts against Vick and his group. Reading between the lines, it looks as if the feds have travel records, bank records, receipts, etc., that place Vick at the sites of dog fights and financil records that implicate him. Pretty strong stuff.

This is truly disgusting, sub-human, uncivilized activity. If the accusations are true, I hope the SOB and buddies do serious prison time.

wazZag
07-17-2007, 03:11 PM
Such a horrendous, disgusting practice, I hope if he is in fact guilty he gets loads of time.

former1dog
07-17-2007, 08:01 PM
I couldn't agree more with the sentiments already discussed in this thread.

Absolutely horrific.

Zag79
07-17-2007, 10:35 PM
:mad: i hope he gets the kitchen sink thrown at him. not only is it a sickening act to take part in in the first place, but the way they put the dogs down makes it that much more twisted and punishable. i hope the league boots him, and he sees time. if pacman can get booted for a bunch of little things, stay true to your word commish!

zagco
07-18-2007, 06:05 AM
It's really difficult to understand how someone who is a millionaire several times over still can't break away from the trailer park.

Pit Bulls and Presa Canarios, both of which were bred to fight and kill, should be made illegal. I have grown so tired of reading the almost daily stories about the beasts attacking kids, their owners, and cops. It's even worse listening to their owners repeat the mantra, "Oh, he's never done ANYTHING like this."

Zag79
07-20-2007, 10:50 AM
they need to come up with a way to keep them available for certified people though. my aunt raised "show" pits, and they never, NEVER, had a bite or nip let alone attack over 20 years. its all about the owner. if poodles became the tough guy, thug dog they wuold become biters and attack people as much as the other dogs you think of. hell, even the Presa Canarios can be a family friendly protector if socialized and trained properly.

RandomZagFan
07-20-2007, 11:01 AM
In addition, I wouldn't mind Clinton Portis being punished for his damaging opinion: "It can't be too bad of a crime.":mad:

HillBillyZag
07-20-2007, 11:15 AM
I have followed this Vick case on ESPN and other media, Video, Audio, and Print. I have yet to see,hear, or read of a single person defending this so called "blood sport'. As a Human Being, A Sports fan, and a Dog owner, it sickens me to know that barbarous actions such a Dog & #### fighting still have a following among us. It does'nt take a "rocket scientist" to figure that Micheal Vick, a young man with tremendous athletic talent, is sadly lacking in Judgement, Social skills, and Compassion. For Shame!!

zagco
07-20-2007, 11:26 AM
Damn, a condemnation of dog and rooster fighting by someone named "Hill Billy Zag" is a condemnation worth its weight in gold!!! :)

P.S. I couldn't agree more with what you say. When I think about Pit Bulls, Presa Canarios, dog fighting, and rooster fighting, I think of: (1) Fantastic mullets; (2) wife beaters; (3) moonshine; (4) trailers; (5) meth; (6) sqealing pigs; and (7) kids running around all day in unchanged poopy diapers.

HillBillyZag
07-20-2007, 01:20 PM
Thanks for the back-handed compliment. Despite long odds the the good Sisters of St. Joseph and the Marist Fathers tried for 16 years " and succeeded in getting the 'boy out of the country", was much harder to get the"country out of the boy". I had an Uncle who made a gallon or two of "Mountain Dew" in his day and while I have owned my share of "houn doggs", still have a Bassett, and do a little hunting, I never saw anything like the disgusting affairs such as bear baiting, dog fighting etc.., or met those that think such affairs are"macho". Still.....,come to think of it?, "when I left School and joined the Air Force and they cut my toenails I damn near bleed to death",and I still say y'all. Go Zags!!

RenoZag
07-21-2007, 06:30 AM
http://images.ucomics.com/comics/crmlu/2007/crmlu070720.gif

CDC84
07-21-2007, 01:03 PM
Pit Bulls and Presa Canarios, both of which were bred to fight and kill, should be made illegal.

And the reputation of pit bulls has suffered because of this practice. When I was a small child, our family dog was a pit bull. It is never harmed me, my sister, relatives, neighbors, etc. But the owners didn't beat on the dog and do other things to make it want to fight.

Michael Vick might be the most disappointing athlete in my lifetime. When he came out of Va Tech, I felt he would have a Michael Jordan like impact on his sport. Things have turned out quite differently, haven't they?

zagco
07-21-2007, 01:16 PM
Pit Bulls are literally like vials of nitro glycerin.

Two weeks ago, a friend was jogging through the north end in Boise with her small poodle on a leash. An unchained or fenced Pit Bull attacked, literally gutting the small poodle, leaving the owner in hysterics as the small poodle yelped with its guts hanging out. The poor thing is in Heaven now.

Of course, the owners of the Pit Bull, a good family with a nice house by all appearances, were apoplectic, assuring everyone from the cops to onlookers that their Pit Bull has never, ever done anything like it.

You hear that all the time from Pit Bull owners.

It's a red herring. The fact of the matter is that those dogs were created by men to kill and maim and they have that in their DNA. No amount of love and attention from good owners will change the DNA of a Pit Bull.

Yes, it is statistically possilble that some Pit Bulls will live a full life without doing something like that--attacking people or another pet. However, they all have it in them, like a bag of highly radioactive material being carefully handled by a nervous Axel Foley.

RandomZagFan
07-21-2007, 02:02 PM
Yikes, for once in my life I actually agree with PETA. "Sack Vick"!

kitzbuel
07-26-2007, 09:38 AM
Pit Bulls are literally like vials of nitro glycerin.

Two weeks ago, a friend was jogging through the north end in Boise with her small poodle on a leash. An unchained or fenced Pit Bull attacked, literally gutting the small poodle, leaving the owner in hysterics as the small poodle yelped with its guts hanging out. The poor thing is in Heaven now.

Of course, the owners of the Pit Bull, a good family with a nice house by all appearances, were apoplectic, assuring everyone from the cops to onlookers that their Pit Bull has never, ever done anything like it.

You hear that all the time from Pit Bull owners.

It's a red herring. The fact of the matter is that those dogs were created by men to kill and maim and they have that in their DNA. No amount of love and attention from good owners will change the DNA of a Pit Bull.

Yes, it is statistically possilble that some Pit Bulls will live a full life without doing something like that--attacking people or another pet. However, they all have it in them, like a bag of highly radioactive material being carefully handled by a nervous Axel Foley.

I gotta agree with Zagco here. My wife's sister and brother-in-law have a pit bull for a family pet. They have 3 and 5 year old kids and our kids have played with the dog and there has never been a problem. But I never am out of arms reach when my kids are there because the dog only has to snap once and he could kill a toddler. I have been bit by dogs growing up (once by my grandmother's nasty chihuahua) normally because I was teasing the dog; pulling tails, ears, etc. Kids will do that and sometimes dogs react, but a pit bull's reaction is pretty damn big.

Rubbadub
07-26-2007, 10:30 AM
Having grown up with a pitbull, i'm not sure how stupid someone would have to be to let one stay out in the open without a leash or a fenced in yard. They are the sweetest things in the world until they get too excited or see a dog that agitates them for some reason or another. They can be absolutely nuts.

zagco
07-26-2007, 06:54 PM
The basic Pitbull owner's mantra goes something like this: They are just lovey-dovey snookums sweetpeas, but there is always a chance that they might decapitate another animal or human by literally engulfing the head inside their mouth, biting down, and ripping the head off by the neck.

WTF?!?:o

Rubbadub
07-27-2007, 05:24 AM
Yeah...my pitbull isn't quite big enough to decapitate a human, and she's usually put in the basement when young children are around. She'd probably be more gentle with them then our lab btw. but who knows. :o She does go buck wild when she sees a dog she doesnt like though. She's never had a chance to act on that impulse though, thank goodness.

zagco
07-27-2007, 06:41 AM
For several years now, I have been raising Black Mambas. At first, it was hard, because they are fast as hell, incredibly poisonous, aggressive like crazy, and pretty dang clever. Having developed an immunity of sorts, I feel like with time I might be able to really break through and start a strain of domesticated Black Mambas for the American suburban snake lover.

Typically, my Black Mambas (Marty, Tad, and Hakeem) are left in their glass aquarium in my basement. I let them out to play if I am gardening, but I put a leash on them and always keep one eye on them while the other eye is tending the peas. Sadly, most of the neighbors are sort of standoffish with them and with me, but not once has there been an attack. The thing that really makes me sick is that the neighborhood association tries to blame every single disappearance of cats, doggies, and the two McMarstens kids on my Black Mambas. Can you imagine?!? It's a witch hunt.

Black Mambas are loving snakes. They are widely misunderstood, though. Owners must be patient with people who discriminate against them. Also, breed-specific, anti-Mamba legislation is creeping up all over, and it's ridiculous because if you outlaw Black Mambas, only outlaws will have Black Mambas. It really comes down to having a loving owner. The next time you hear about a Black Mamba hurting someone or something, just rememeber that the snake was RAISED that way by an irresponsible owner.

Rubbadub
07-27-2007, 07:06 AM
Interesting story! Unfortunately it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. Still very interesting.

Rubbadub
07-27-2007, 07:11 AM
Have fun with your quest btw. I hope its not your full time job.

Rubbadub
07-27-2007, 07:28 AM
"Owning a pit bull has its good points as well as the negative points. Pit bulls are not bred for dog aggression. Pit bulls, as with any dog, can be aggressive if they are mistreated. Pit bulls are basically hardwired to listen to their owners. This makes training extremely easy. However, it must also be said that if an owner trains his pit bull to attack humans, it will do so without hesitation. They thrive on pleasing their owners, no matter what the cost. And while their attacks aren't among the vast majority, they are more dangerous because of the breed's tenacity. They do have a very high tolerance to pain.

Those who are responsible and who own well-bred pit bulls know of the breed's wonderful tolerance for children, and even their mothering nature. They also face taunts, threats, and unfair treatment based solely on their dog's breed.

Although friendliness and tolerance towards humans are traits of the breed, there are, as in any breed, those that are dangerous toward animals as well as humans. It is the owner's responsibility to be in total control of his dogs."

-A much better way of stating the situation than making up stories.

94zagoldwomanasherdsmen
07-29-2007, 10:38 PM
I think it was a touch of satire...just a guess

btw our neighbors have a pit, and he's nice and friendly...but never allowed out of his 6' fenced yard at my request. It's just not worth the risk with my 3 kids and a few dozen neighbor kids.

I have a Rat Terrier, ain't gonna kill no one, but he's hell on rodents so if you're walking your rat...stand back.

zagco
07-30-2007, 06:42 AM
I was attacked by a Pit Bull when I was 8 years old. I was delivering papers at the time. The dog appeared to be on a leash when I approached the driveway to toss the paper, but the leash was about 100 feet long. Nice joke. Of course, the owners of the Pit Bull lived in a trailer and seemed to think it was no big deal.

I completely disagree about the Pit Bull's breeding. They were bred to kill and maim.

This CDC study is eye-popping:

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.pdf

Pit Bulls are the worst offenders, and they seem to be culturally favored by groups and people who seek to scare and threaten others. Thus, I believe they should be legally banned and systematically eliminated from the canine population. They were created by man, so they are Frankenstein beasts of a sort that were not put here by God. I am also in favor of banning and wiping out all Presa Canarios, an even more dangerous breed created by men to kill. There is no excuse for such beasts. I am also amenable to eliminating Rottweilers. Laws should also be adjusted to provide strict liability and criminal penalties for owners. We need to bust up the culture that uses dogs as weapons.

Rubbadub
07-30-2007, 09:07 AM
I'll go tell the older lady we bought our puppy from that she was raising dogs for the purpose of "maiming and killing". I'm sure she'll be surprised, seeing as how she doesn't have any of the necessary equipment and even lets the puppies sleep at the foot of her bed. Saying you got bit as a child (which i'm not going to believe since its the third story you've proposed with the last one being silly and irrelevant) is not an excuse for the killing of an entire breed of dog. You could present horror stories regarding any animal on the planet if you wanted them exterminated. How about this one: the crime rate among humans is much much higher than that among even pit bulls. Following your faulty logic, all humans should be exterminated as well. If you want to stop pit bull aggression, target abusive owners and dog fighting rings.

zagco
07-30-2007, 10:46 AM
I do not believe that owners are entirely to blame for Pit Bulls' aggressive and unpredictable behavior. They were bred/created to be that way. When humans created Pit Bulls, they bred dogs that would result in a powerful, aggressive machine of a canine, and by all accounts they succeeded.

A good, responsible owner certainly helps a lot, but it cannot change the DNA of a Pit Bull. The lady to which you refer sounds like she was a good owner.

Pit Bulls are not natural. They are basically robots. They are just like the foul, unnatural beasts that H.G. Wells wrote about in The Island of Dr. Moreau.

You may not believe my story about being attacked and chomped on by a Pit Bull, and you may not like my story about Black Mambas, but I can assure you that one of them is true, while the other one is a metaphor of sorts.

I deeply believe that we should outlaw them and systematically wipe them out through anti-breeding legislation. Same for Presa Canarios and, I think, Rottweilers.

Meanwhile, please excuse me while I go chase down my Black Mambas. Seems like one of them slipped off his leash (?!) and has the neighbor up in arms--he appears to be lunging at him on the front porch, which is a game Hakeem like to play. :)

Rubbadub
07-30-2007, 10:55 AM
The day I see a black mamba accept petting from strangers and lick their hand, and then go in the back yard and play fetch and tug of war with them, i'll accept your metaphor. :)

CDC84
07-31-2007, 09:21 AM
http://www.hershmanlawfirm.com/

Zagpower
07-31-2007, 11:37 AM
Not only has Mr. Vick shown his character by participating in dog fighting and killing but have you heard his explanation? He's throwing his family and close friends under the bus claiming they took advantage of his kindness and generosity and that he had no knowledge any of this was going on. I have also read the 18 page actual indictment and his explanation is a little hard to believe.

zagco
07-31-2007, 11:42 AM
Ha! Nice lawyer ad CDC. In Idaho, a good criminal defense lawyer years ago likened himself to a Bulldog in his yellow page ads. The Idaho State Bar thought that was too much. Thus, in Idaho, it is unethical for us lawyers to compare ourselves to animals. We have a rule on that. :) Accordingly, I often compare myself to the Vulcans--incredibly smart and strong. :)

lothar98zag
07-31-2007, 12:03 PM
IIRC, Vulcans are w/o emotions and humor....

I guess that explains a lot...

:P

zagco
07-31-2007, 06:40 PM
Lothar, that is illogical.

:)

RenoZag
07-31-2007, 09:19 PM
http://www.jonco48.com/blog/toogoodn_small.jpg

Zag79
08-01-2007, 03:55 PM
:lmao: