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View Full Version : The Slipper Still Fits: Karnowski - Part III



SWZag
03-08-2012, 01:08 PM
Where Does Everthing Stand With Karnowski & Gonzaga: Part III Of Our Karnowski Update (http://www.slipperstillfits.com/2012/3/8/2854836/where-does-everthing-stand-with-karnowski-gonzaga-part-iii-of-our)

SWZag

thickman1
03-08-2012, 01:14 PM
The young man wants minutes...that could be a problem if he's really raw for D1 hoops.

BobZag
03-08-2012, 01:32 PM
SWZag, are you really in Israel?

Karno is a future Zag.

former1dog
03-08-2012, 01:33 PM
The young man wants minutes...that could be a problem if he's really raw for D1 hoops.

Agreed. Unless he's REALLY good.

Liked that fadeaway jumper in the highlites. Very hard to block a 7 footer fading away.

His mobility looked good.

He looks like one of those big kids you'd see in a Kansas Jayhawks uniform.

SWZag
03-08-2012, 01:37 PM
SWZag, are you really in Israel?

Karno is a future Zag.

Currently, Israel indeed. Work.

Karno is for sure a future Zag?

SWZag

willandi
03-08-2012, 01:48 PM
He wants structured minutes, not just thrown in the game to sink or swim. He wants guards that feed the post, and we have that. Hopefully he wants us. Probably not a RS, as has been pointed out, not many of the Euros want the extra year, plus the come from systems that seem to be better than our HS, at least in basketball sense. Seems like he would be a great back-up to KO and SD at the 5 position, let EH, SD and RS cover the 4, add a 3 or 2 and we would have a formidible team...on paper!

CDC84
03-08-2012, 02:01 PM
Very much like with Elias Harris, don't expect a massive press release and huge publicity. It doesn't work that way with overseas kids.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if you hear nothing about this until he appears on the official roster at gozags.com. And that roster won't be updated until the fall.

DADoZAG
03-08-2012, 02:27 PM
Very much like with Elias Harris, don't expect a massive press release and huge publicity. It doesn't work that way with overseas kids.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if you hear nothing about this until he appears on the official roster at gozags.com. And that roster won't be updated until the fall.

I don't need the trumpets blaring or ESPN live coverage of the LOI signing.

All I need is for BZ not to have "future" in his post, and I'm good to go.

Go ZAGS!

BobZag
03-08-2012, 02:43 PM
Fall of 2012.
On campus.
A Zag.

Goshzagit
03-08-2012, 02:50 PM
My only question is playing time?

- Dower, Olynyk, Elias, Spangler -

5 man rotation?

If E stays, gotta think Spangler is red-shirting.

I was told in Vegas PK's game is very similar(on par) to Sacre but with waaayyyy better hands, yet not as much brute strength.

DixieZag
03-08-2012, 03:17 PM
I really like having 7 footers.

I have gotten used to having them.

sonuvazag
03-08-2012, 03:25 PM
As long as one foreign-born seven-footer is born every four years, the Zags are good to go.

BobZag
03-08-2012, 03:26 PM
I was told in Vegas PK's game is very similar(on par) to Sacre but with waaayyyy better hands, yet not as much brute strength.

True on the brute strength. More like Bogut, that's the best description of him. Sacre is more Shaq than Bogut. Not comparing them to NBA'ers, just trying to give an idea of difference.

CDC84
03-08-2012, 03:34 PM
Another key difference between Karnowski and Sacre is that Karnowski is supposedly a high level passer out of the post. It's something that is continually mentioned in his evaluations. Pangos, Bell and Dranginis will benefit when teams double.

I would like to see Ryan Spangler redshirt next year to maximize his eligibility and sharpen his low post skill set. That's just my opinion.

Martin Centre Mad Man
03-08-2012, 03:37 PM
I was told in Vegas PK's game is very similar(on par) to Sacre but with waaayyyy better hands, yet not as much brute strength.

You can put him in the weight room. It's harder to teach "touch." I'll take it.

DADoZAG
03-08-2012, 03:51 PM
Another key difference between Karnowski and Sacre is that Karnowski is supposedly a high level passer out of the post. It's something that is continually mentioned in his evaluations. Pangos, Bell and Dranginis will benefit when teams double.

The best pass to set up a three is a pass out from the post. The shooter has sight of the basket the whole time. Easy to be squared up. Just step into the pass as it comes and let the shot fly.

Passing out of the post when the double comes helps the post too. If you rarely pass out of the post, all of a sudden you’ve got the whole D collapsing into the paint.

Sound familiar?

Go ZAGS!

Dah, coach, ah tink ah cahn skoe, ah tink ah cahn skoe, ah tink ah cahn skoe. Dawn, tune obah.

gamagin
03-08-2012, 03:53 PM
Ronny and EH are very influential examples & ambassadors in this kid's decision-making process. That could be a real advantage not easily duplicated.

ZagNut08
03-08-2012, 03:54 PM
Fall of 2012.
On campus.
A Zag.

:clap:

Good enough for me. I have been a fan of him for a while, would welcome him to the mix.

doctorzag
03-08-2012, 03:57 PM
This is a huge get. He`ll be better as a freshman than Sacre as a 5th year senior. Big upgrade.

DADoZAG
03-08-2012, 04:04 PM
This is a huge get. He`ll be better as a freshman than Sacre as a 5th year senior. Big upgrade.


And so it begins...

I'm not arguin', but I ain't agreein' either. :D

Go ZAGS!

Goshzagit
03-08-2012, 04:07 PM
Interestingly enough, one of Sacre's primary weaknesses is his passing and handling of double-teams. Then, after reading the last three scouting reports on Karnowski, these happen to be his greatest strengths. Hmmm...

thespywhozaggedme
03-08-2012, 04:12 PM
This is a huge get. He`ll be better as a freshman than Sacre as a 5th year senior. Big upgrade.

Uh................while I lament the fact that Rob has canned hams where most of us have hands, to anoint a former very chubby, soft, reluctant rebounder to be better than him his freshman year is absurd hyperbole. I watched a lot of Karno the past few summers and was not impressed much at all, but by all accounts and much to his credit, he has improved a lot. Just let the kid be himself and be patient.

JPtheBeasta
03-08-2012, 05:11 PM
I wouldn't mind if we could somehow avoid the Sacre bashing. I think it is possible to exalt one player without denigrating the other. Sacre is a great Zag and provides a defensive presence (and leadership) that will be hard to replace. Just my opinion, but if Karnowski is better as a freshman than Sacre as a senior he is a one-and-done.

WallaWallaZag
03-08-2012, 05:15 PM
agreed...there's absolutely no evidence that he's better than sacre or even ever will be until he actually plays a div 1 game. having the hands is nice to know, but i doubt he's the athlete sacre is (aside from the hops anyways).

sittingon50
03-08-2012, 05:22 PM
Disappointed that the kid that is #2 in career blocked shots & #3 in FT's made can be dismissed by some so easily. He may not be the total package but he is certainly one of the all-time contributor's.

BobZag
03-08-2012, 05:29 PM
Sacre has been a great Zag. A lot like Ronny in some ways. A big personality around campus. A physical presence on the court. Karno is so different, one shouldn't be comparing the two. Who compares Bogut to Shaq? It's like that. Karno, if anything, is a taller, bigger Dower.

jbslicer
03-08-2012, 05:31 PM
BZ is 100% correct. Sacre has been a great Zag.

MDABE80
03-08-2012, 05:33 PM
Can he dunk!!???;) For those youngins on the board, that used to be a highly prevalent question.

Coach Crazy
03-08-2012, 08:59 PM
Can he dunk!!???;) For those youngins on the board, that used to be a highly prevalent question.

He looks like he is has become more fleet of foot over the past year or so. And in the footage that I was watching, he looked like he could get up just about as Rob, maybe a teeny bit more.

Also, while he seems to make some peculiar passing decisions from the post...he seems to have a passing mentality, which in this offense with guys like KP, GBJ, and Hoff can really be dangerous.

I'm still not sold on the kid, completely, but we don't have a line of big waiting to get in, and coordinated 7 footers that have D1 potential don't exactly grow on trees. So, I guess it is worth the risk.

hooter73
03-08-2012, 09:57 PM
I guess we get to see what a 5 man inside rotation is going to look like.

Better be hot in your first two minutes because there will be someone else to sub in for you... just ask Carter how that works.

I honestly dont mind if no one red shirts. Harris might still have a game or two that he goes cold. Fouls can rack up on Dower or KO. Its not a bad thing to have options.

CDC84
03-08-2012, 10:14 PM
Karno is stronger, more fleet of foot, more skilled and tougher than any old evaluation on the internet indicates. He's improved.

I agree....the comparison between Sacre and Karno ends with the fact that both are seven footers. I mean, being a seven footer is a good thing, but the two guys are just too different in style.

I am just glad Gonzaga will be replacing Sacre with a seven foot center who has shown a great deal of improvement and some intriguing skills. As Coach Few has always said, the most important thing with big men (especially the seven footers) is having a passion for the game. So many of them don't.

bostonzagfan
03-08-2012, 10:19 PM
bobzag, you seem sure he is coming.

what does that mean as far as redshirting - either spangs or karno would have to RS, am i correct?

Worthington
03-08-2012, 10:53 PM
I love Karnowski and really hope that he officially chooses us soon. I believe he is a top 50 recruit if he played in the states, maybe better. That fact that numerous NBA scouts are already on top of him is an extremely good indicator of his potential.

SWZag
03-09-2012, 04:00 AM
This is from July 2011, but a nice review (Pangos mention on page 1):

Breaking down the top international prospects at FIBA U19 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/luke_winn/07/07/FIBA.U19.prospects/1.html)


His ability to pass out of double-teams is Kevin Love or Brad Miller-like, and he knows how to use his size to seal off defenders on the block. Gonzaga is the first school Karnowski mentions in questions about his recruitment...

------

I'm guessing this article from September 2011 has been hashed and rehashed on the board, but I find it very informative.

Przemysław Karnowski's Dominant Look (http://thebasketballpost.com/2011/09/21/przemysław-karnowskis-dominant-look.aspx)


Having in memory examples of other Polish prospects, fans in Poland are disturbed because of Karnowski’s plan. The cases of Michał Ignerski, Adam Hrycaniuk and Paweł Malesa are more often pointed by the skeptics. After four years in college basketball, Neither of them had as big a career as their talent should have allowed them. It’s an eternal dilemma; which way of development is better: NCAA or pro in Europe.

But Karnowski’s case is unique, because he can be in the future, the Pole selected with the highest pick ever in the NBA Draft, so it’s natural that his goal is the NBA. It's not surprising that on the prestigious website Draftexpress.com, he is currently placed 31st in the 2013 Mock Draft. It is easy to observe that the best place to improve all his weakness is college basketball, especially with many midmajor schools interested in him. The Polish big guy has gotten offers from Cincinnati, Gonzaga, California, Utah and Washington State.


-------

Photo from Polishhoops.pl (http://www.polishhoops.pl/)

http://www.polishhoops.pl/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/2.jpg

SWZag

Goshzagit
03-09-2012, 05:29 AM
what does that mean as far as redshirting - either spangs or karno would have to RS, am i correct?

That is the 'elephant in the room' at the moment...

I just think with another off-season Spangler will be vastly improved and too much of a weapon to keep off the floor -- with Elias' rebounding gains, GLE's ability, and KO's knack for board, we'd be one of the best rebounding teams in the country (as long as Spangler plays).

You play the best players(Karnowski may or may not be), yet a 5-man rotation up front is killing me b/c I know one of our hardworking, talented guys is going to be left out. If Elias leaves, which he's currently projected as a 2nd-rounder, then the door opens a bit more; however, this doesn't seem to be the case. . .

The good news about next season is we won't be so front court dependent aka SLOW as we were to start the season...our offense will be so much more open and versatile its not even funny...

BJZags
03-09-2012, 07:35 AM
Is there any concern that he has "eligibility" problems due to violations for his playing in Europe and would have to sit some games a la Edi?

jim77
03-09-2012, 08:44 AM
Disappointed that the kid that is #2 in career blocked shots & #3 in FT's made can be dismissed by some so easily. He may not be the total package but he is certainly one of the all-time contributor's.

YUP.

Rob has done a really nice job....hes kinda spoiled us....which is exactly why I'd love to see Karnowski in a ZAG uniform.Its just nice to have a Big guy in the middle. He has nice coordination and a nice shooting touch....in some ways he reminds me of JP....smoooth kid. He wants minutes? I'd put him right in the middle....with Kelly to one side and "E" to the other side. KP and GBJ will have a field day with these guys.

Martin Centre Mad Man
03-09-2012, 09:57 AM
Disappointed that the kid that is #2 in career blocked shots & #3 in FT's made can be dismissed by some so easily. He may not be the total package but he is certainly one of the all-time contributor's.

Gonzaga won't completely replace Sacre's contributions. Gonzaga may not recruit a better defensive center for a long, long time.

I'm just excited that we have the ability to recruit a player with similar size to fill SOME of the void that he is going to leave when he's gone. Hopefully, Karnowski's other strengths will help to offset the loss of Sacre's strengths.

titopoet
03-09-2012, 10:08 AM
Is there any concern that he has "eligibility" problems due to violations for his playing in Europe and would have to sit some games a la Edi?

Nope, he more akin to E Harris. His parents were very careful with this.

Reborn
03-09-2012, 10:42 AM
Disappointed that the kid that is #2 in career blocked shots & #3 in FT's made can be dismissed by some so easily. He may not be the total package but he is certainly one of the all-time contributor's.

totally agree: Im tired of the Sacre bashing. After his game Monday, how could anyone criticize this great Zag. Show's how much some people know about basketball. That's all!

hooter73
03-09-2012, 10:42 AM
My only requirement for Karnowski to play here is that he grows an awesome fu-manchu mustache.

Reborn
03-09-2012, 10:45 AM
Sacre has been a great Zag. A lot like Ronny in some ways. A big personality around campus. A physical presence on the court. Karno is so different, one shouldn't be comparing the two. Who compares Bogut to Shaq? It's like that. Karno, if anything, is a taller, bigger Dower.

personally, I don't want another Sam Dower. I like Sam but he's a liability on defense. We do not need to revert back to a BAD defensive team. PLEASE.

Goshzagit
03-09-2012, 11:00 AM
personally, I don't want another Sam Dower. I like Sam but he's a liability on defense. We do not need to revert back to a BAD defensive team. PLEASE.

RB, I agree with 99% of the time, but here is the 1%.

Sure, Sam has some areas to improve on defensive technique and hustle(who doesn't?), but give me his scoring prowess any day and every day of the week 100 times over...

I'd take another Dower in a heartbeat, and don't forget, he's ONLY a Sophomore.

Difficult to compare Sam to Rob considering Sacre is one of the best defensive Center is all of College basketball -- which many take for granted on this board.

Sam saved us plenty this year and has a chance of being an all-time great before its all said and done.

Sam was a Top-100 type post player we don't always recruit around here, unless overseas, and had offers from Marquette, Minnesota, Cal, among others.

6'9", 245lb Centers who can knock down 3's and score with such ease doesn't grow on trees.

Dower would thrive even more if we weren't so hesitant in running the Pick 'n Pop like we used to do---Sam can hit that shot and for the life of me, why did we run it with Ronny and JP, but afraid to run with Rob or Sam. Very odd/sad change over the years and makes our offense more predictable. Anyway, I digress...

I'd just say, be careful what you wish for as we're VERY lucky to have a player of Sam's caliber/talents on this team.

maynard g krebs
03-09-2012, 12:38 PM
totally agree: Im tired of the Sacre bashing. After his game Monday, how could anyone criticize this great Zag. Show's how much some people know about basketball. That's all!

+2. A couple weeks ago, I looked up Rob's stats before, during, and after the hand injury. In the twenty games he was healthy, leaving out the Longwood scrimmage when he didn't play much, he averaged 14 pts, 7 boards, and shot 54+% from the floor.

Warts and all, he's still among the better centers in cbb.

CDC84
03-09-2012, 01:00 PM
Is there any concern that he has "eligibility" problems due to violations for his playing in Europe and would have to sit some games a la Edi?

Not that I am aware of. The NCAA has changed its rules regarding players playing alongside pros, and the only reason Guy got nailed was because the violations happened before the new rules went in place.

Virginia Zags Fan
03-10-2012, 04:57 AM
I will be thrilled if the Big K comes to Gonzaga and no doubt he will be a fantastic Zag if he does.

However, Robert Sacre has meant much more to this team than many realize. I know I will really miss him next year. In a program filled with greats, there is no doubt in my mind he will be remembered up there with many of the all time big guys. Every player is different and brings different things to the table. We often get sucked into trying to put the players in a box, "XXXX is like xxxxxxxx". For many years, Coach Few and his gang have done a good job of putting pieces together to form great teams. I am excited to see how they do in the NCAA's.