For those who can't see the forest through the trees

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  • LongIslandZagFan
    Moderator
    • Feb 2007
    • 13933

    For those who can't see the forest through the trees

    First half... 15 TOs resulting in 18 points for BYU
    7 BYU TOs resulting in 5 points for GU
    BYU +13 in points off TOs... +14 score in BYUs favor

    Second half... 4 TOs resulting in 4 points for BYU
    5 BYU TOs resulting in 6 points for GU

    GU +2 in points off TOs... +4 in score in GUs favor.

    Points to take away... Obviously Few made adjustments because second half was radically different.... But points off TOs differential is eerily close to final score differential. Btw the TO distribution was from almost everyone in the first half.

    Just food for thought. More food for thought... Team averages 13 TOs a game... They surpassed that in the first half.
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

    "Gonzaga is a special place, with special people!" - Dan Dickau #21

    Foo me once shame on you, Foo me twice shame on me.

    2012 Foostrodamus - Foothsayer of Death
  • Zag@LMU
    Zag for Life
    • Feb 2011
    • 1012

    #2
    Our 13 TO/G is also 140th in the nation.
    "Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither." - Benjamin Franklin

    Comment

    • raise the zag
      Zag for Life
      • May 2011
      • 3175

      #3
      Excellent post, LIZF.

      Thanks for the reminder & the stats.

      Interesting the "adjustments" were, once again, more Marquise Carter & David Stockton in clutch moments, pressure play, or road games.

      Pangos has been very mediocre away from Spokane, which is normal development for a Freshman. I'm fine with this...

      Love me some KP, yet in high-stakes games(Mich St, Illinois, @Portland, BYU) a dose of Carter and/or Stockton have been the more composed, poised, and confident guard. One or two or both have been our saving grace.

      I feel Coach Few is beginning to realize this...

      Also, Mike Hart made an appearance and played smart ball in limited mins, which is more than Edi can say in same amount of minutes.

      Anyway, just mentioning the adjustments Few made.

      Comment

      • Chicken Ball
        Kennel Club
        • Feb 2007
        • 339

        #4
        But here's why the second half isn't a big comfort: they played well only when Sacre, Pangos, and Harris were on the bench. If we can't play well with those guys in the game, we're in big trouble. And,f rankly, since St. Mary's Harris is the only one of the three who's been playing well. And even he was awful last night.

        Comment

        • 75Zag
          Zag for Life
          • Mar 2007
          • 2767

          #5
          Trees and Puppies

          Unfortunate loss, but "stuff" happens. My primary concern was how scared and rattled the younger/ newer GU players looked (excluding Stockton and Gary Bell). Still hoping for selfish reasons to see GU in Portland in March, but I do not see this team as ready to make a deep run in the Tournament.

          Go Bulldogs! Get Bigger!
          Do not go gentle into that good night,
          Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
          Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

          Comment

          • raise the zag
            Zag for Life
            • May 2011
            • 3175

            #6
            I thought our game plan vs BYU's zone was magnificent, yet our BIGS couldn't take advantage underneath.

            The play where we got the ball to Dower/Sacre just 2 feet from the hoop was outstanding, yet either Sacre couldn't hold on or Dower was fading away too much...it killed our momentum in 1st half. Two wide-open missed dunks by Big Rob, I mean really? Dower played well down the stretch, but this was a game he could have had 25 pts as they allowed him to go left and one-on-one most of the time. Same with Elias.

            We'd run a nice offensive set, get the ball to the right place, then miss & miss & miss again. Shooting around 20% in 1st half will do that to you.

            Dower said it best:

            “I don’t think we’re coming into these road games with the right mindset,” Dower said. “We’re being the hunted instead of being the hunters. We have to change our mindset.”

            Comment

            • LongIslandZagFan
              Moderator
              • Feb 2007
              • 13933

              #7
              Originally posted by Zag@LMU View Post
              Our 13 TO/G is also 140th in the nation.
              It's also lower than the usual 14 it has been over the last 10 years. In fact only 1 season has it very been less than 13. And bring down the average just one half of a turnover and the ranking jumps into the 50s.
              "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

              "Gonzaga is a special place, with special people!" - Dan Dickau #21

              Foo me once shame on you, Foo me twice shame on me.

              2012 Foostrodamus - Foothsayer of Death

              Comment

              • LongIslandZagFan
                Moderator
                • Feb 2007
                • 13933

                #8
                Originally posted by raise the zag View Post
                Excellent post, LIZF.

                Thanks for the reminder & the stats.

                Interesting the "adjustments" were, once again, more Marquise Carter & David Stockton in clutch moments, pressure play, or road games.

                Pangos has been very mediocre away from Spokane, which is normal development for a Freshman. I'm fine with this...

                Love me some KP, yet in high-stakes games(Mich St, Illinois, @Portland, BYU) a dose of Carter and/or Stockton have been the more composed, poised, and confident guard. One or two or both have been our saving grace.

                I feel Coach Few is beginning to realize this...

                Also, Mike Hart made an appearance and played smart ball in limited mins, which is more than Edi can say in same amount of minutes.

                Anyway, just mentioning the adjustments Few made.
                Btw for all the love Carter has gotten.. He contributed 4 of the 15 TOs in the first half.
                "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

                "Gonzaga is a special place, with special people!" - Dan Dickau #21

                Foo me once shame on you, Foo me twice shame on me.

                2012 Foostrodamus - Foothsayer of Death

                Comment

                • DZ
                  Zag for Life
                  • Sep 2007
                  • 18743

                  #9
                  I can't put any positive spin on this whatsoever, and I expected us to lose last night - predicted it, but the WAY we lost is highly disturbing.

                  In "big" games versus MSU, Illinois, UP - - Stockton and Carter saved our bacon??? We lost 2 of those and Portland has only beaten 7 teams this year.

                  What I see is stats like 15 TOs in the first half and 1/15 3 pt shooting and the change to a Zone defense paying dividends too late to do any good - as a pattern in each of our losses, a pattern getting worse in the last month even in games we have won and a pattern that seems far from being fixed.

                  -I think we were intimidated - just like at SMC.
                  -I think we are now a very poor 3 point shooting team and one dimensional offensively. Watch any other college BB game, teams are regularly making 5-8 3 pt shots, that would be a total barrage for us right now, and we are getting worse.


                  I think there are some real patterns that are emerging, which were in a pretty long thread last night, now attached to the Game Thread and the trash heap of history (pretty weak mods) and I think this team is going in the wrong direction.
                  Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
                  Mark Twain.

                  Comment

                  • IrishZagFan
                    Zag for Life
                    • Jul 2008
                    • 7523

                    #10
                    LIZF adding a touch of "the voice of reason" in his posts. Very nice, and always, always, appreciate the research done.
                    IZF
                    Keep out of the Foo, unless you know what you are fooing.......

                    Comment

                    • zag944
                      Zag for Life
                      • Feb 2007
                      • 1444

                      #11
                      Im glad Few stuck with Carter through most of the game, because he made some pretty putrid TOs early. Marquise seems to be the guy that finds us baskets when our scoring isnt happening. Never stopped hustling either. Im really impressed by how much of a leader he still plays like, despite being understandably frustrated with his shot.

                      Comment

                      • Zag79
                        Zag for Life
                        • Feb 2007
                        • 3992

                        #12
                        Originally posted by zag944 View Post
                        Im glad Few stuck with Carter through most of the game, because he made some pretty putrid TOs early. Marquise seems to be the guy that finds us baskets when our scoring isnt happening. Never stopped hustling either. Im really impressed by how much of a leader he still plays like, despite being understandably frustrated with his shot.
                        +1... Carter had 4 to's but was the only guy who wasn't afraid to just take the ball to the rack. Turnovers hurt, but a guy shooting 2 for 10 with no turnovers is just as detrimental. I like what MC brings to the table, and think his rise in PT is justified.

                        Comment

                        • cjm720
                          Zag for Life
                          • Nov 2007
                          • 6471

                          #13
                          Originally posted by zag944 View Post
                          Im glad Few stuck with Carter through most of the game, because he made some pretty putrid TOs early. Marquise seems to be the guy that finds us baskets when our scoring isnt happening. Never stopped hustling either. Im really impressed by how much of a leader he still plays like, despite being understandably frustrated with his shot.
                          +1
                          Go Zags!!!

                          Comment

                          • DZ
                            Zag for Life
                            • Sep 2007
                            • 18743

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Zag@LMU
                            Watch it with the mod criticizing, or a red square with a snarky comment might appear in your reputation section.
                            Mods are human too, treat them with the respect you would a person in line at the grocery store, they are grown-ups - a little questioning comment occassionally does not hurt anything. They do a tough job and have to maintain a decorum set by others (Spokesman) so, I feel fine with a gentle "huh?" from time to time.
                            Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
                            Mark Twain.

                            Comment

                            • ZagsObserver
                              Zag for Life
                              • Jan 2010
                              • 3003

                              #15
                              Carter averages nearly as many turnovers as he does assists. I hardly think he's the answer. He's also shooting a whopping 12% from three and 30-something overall. I'd like to be drinking the kool-aid, but the fact is we have a deficit at the three spot. I'd take hart over Keita and carter any day.

                              Comment

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