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View Full Version : My after Game thoughts I do.



Zags11
02-02-2012, 11:27 PM
We started sloppy, couldnt shoot from behind the arc at all in the 1st half or control the ball. We played much, much better in the 2nd half. We come like that in the 1st half, We walk outta BYU with a W. Missing 3s happen as its just part of basketball life. We had only 4 turnovers in the 2nd half and outscored them by 4. The main reason we lost was the turnovers imo. We shot terrible from 3, but 19 turnovers killed us.

I loved how carter played besides the 4 turnovers. He seemed really solid. DS had a good stat game. Sacre was EH, to me tonight and harris was non-showing on offense for whatever reason and hartsock beat him up on defensive side. Dower was tremendous in the 2nd half as was bell.

I believe the streak is done. I dont see SMC losing to anyone now but us. I see us winning the rest of our games even though it seems like the world is collapsing as a Zag fan.

Zag@LMU
02-03-2012, 12:11 AM
The streak was over the second we stepped off the floor in Moraga. SMC is going to run the table. We will beat BYU by 15 here.

zagfan1
02-03-2012, 12:25 AM
This loss was tough to swallow. It somewhat felt like they didn't care to win. They seemed timid and turned the ball over way too many times. 14 pts down at half was probably the worst that I have seen from a zags team in years. I cannot even begin to understand the rotations that hit the floor. I wish Sacre would show some more emotion and try to block some shots. He is watching from the floor way too much. I am hoping St Marys will lay an egg but they are doing such a great job. I wish we were like them this year. They are tough and running the WCC teams off the court.

GoGU
02-03-2012, 12:58 AM
I watched the game from a friend's room on campus. The first half made me feel sick. I felt better about the second half, but it was a classic case of "too little, too late." I have been disgusted this season by how inconsistent our players are. Elias, Sacre, and Dower are complete beasts some nights, and other nights, they shouldn't have even bothered suiting up. Pangos and Bell, while talented and smart, make freshman mistakes, and if we had more consistent contribution from the upperclassmen (and a real SF so we wouldn't have to run that god-awful 3-guard lineup), we wouldn't have to rely on them for "instant offense" all the time. Even though it's only 4 losses on the season, I can point to plenty of games that we could have lost (@LMU, @Portland, etc).

At this point, I do believe that the streak is over. I haven't been a Zag fan for half as long as some of you guys, but the thought of John Wooden's record slipping away (barring a catastrophic implosion on the part of St. Mary's) is hard to take. I don't believe we have a coaching problem. I believe that this year's team needed an attitude adjustment. It almost seems that St. Mary's success took them by surprise, and that they thought that the conference would come easy this year. They were wrong.

As a student, it's my job to be irrationally spirited about this team, even in the face of adversity, so I'm always going to hope for the best. I look to the future. I think with the kind of young talent we have developing (Pangos, Bell, Dower, Spangler, plus the experience of Olynyk and Stockton) plus whatever new recruits we pick up, I think that this could be a team that will run deep into the tournament a couple years down the road (dare I say elite eight or final four?).

Zag
02-03-2012, 06:52 AM
The zags beat themselves last night. At times they looked like a bad WNBA team dribbling the ball off their own feet and missing layups. I am thankful that BYU called off the dogs and let us crawl back into the game to make it look respectable.

Some good things came out of the late run though...

Mike Hart showed he can play D again. Maybe Few will be inspired to use him sooner as a shut down defender against St. Mary's.

Stockton showed leadership and poise down the stretch. Hopefully, Pangos learned something from how Stockton handled the show.

Earlier in the game I did think...
Sacre played solid post defense against Davies. While he seemed to struggle at times offensively, I did like how he handled the post defense in one on one situations. It looked like a heavyweight fight between those two at times.

rennis
02-03-2012, 06:55 AM
At times they looked like a bad WNBA team dribbling the ball off their own feet and missing layups.

LOL WUT?!

You must not watch much women's bball. I'm no flag waver for the WNBA, but even our women's team is probably more fundamentally sound on the average night than our men.

Reborn
02-03-2012, 07:00 AM
When the Zags play one-on-one basketball they lose. It's that simple. They did it against St. Mary's and they played that way last night against BYU. I thought Harris had learned his lesson against St. Mary's. He said he had. He played like he had after that game and was really passing the ball. But last night he relapsed into old habbits. Sam Dower was just as bad the first half. That guy NEVER passes. And Kevin Pagos did it too, time after time.

The offense last night was one pass and then go one on one. At times we passed it twice. The worst shot in basketball is when the player dribbles down the court at full speed and once he nears the 3 point line at his end of the court he pulls up and shoots a 3. We did that about 4 times last night and, of course, missed all 4 attempts. Pangos and his team probably showed the world the worst way ever to attack a zone. They looked like a team who has never been coached. I bet Few was really mad.

BYU clearly outhustled the Zags, especially on the defensive end. I think that's what bothers me the most about Sacre and Harris. In our last two losses neither of these guys showed up to play defense. And to most Gonzaga fans that is what's most embarrassing. In our two losses these guys acted as if they had no idea of what it means to be a Zag, and that falls on Robert's and Elias' shoulders.

The most disgusting thing for me last night was seeing Sacre, Harris and Pangos sitting on the bench, uninvolved in game and talking, while the bench players finally began to look like a Gonzaga basketball team. The play of these 3 guys last night was disgusting and unacceptable. I'm glad Few benched them and left them there. I felt the one mistake Few made last night was letting Sacre back into the game at the one minute mark. Sacre didn't deserve it. Harris played 21 minute and Pangos 24 and Sacre 27 in the most important game of the year. Oh, and by the way, none of these guys were on the bench because of foul trouble.

tarzanello
02-03-2012, 07:34 AM
I know the Zags play OOC games in some larger venues, but not conference games. Is this the largest crowd they've played in front of this season? I'm not one to overhype crowd effect, but do any of you think a 19,000+, sell-out Marriott Center was a big factor? As was mentioned in the Spokesman-Review article, that last play of the 1st half Few was screaming at your guys to get set up correctly, but nobody could hear him.
Then again, it was obviously a non-factor with St. Mary's. Just curious on your thoughts.

Zag
02-03-2012, 07:38 AM
No. Everyone but Pangos and Bell pretty much has played on a bigger stage then BYU/Provo. I felt the announcers overstated how difficult it is to play at BYU. Illinois is a much rougher environment in my opinion. Sacre et al have played there twice by my calculations.

ZagLawGrad
02-03-2012, 07:43 AM
If you didn't see this train wreck coming last night, you haven't been paying attention. Too many predictions based on loyalty and blind faith.

This team just isn't very good right now. And frankly, they may not pull out of it this season.

jazzdelmar
02-03-2012, 07:50 AM
If you didn't see this train wreck coming last night, you haven't been paying attention. Too many predictions based on loyalty and blind faith.

This team just isn't very good right now. And frankly, they may not pull out of it this season.

thank you. succinct and accurate, sadly.

Zag
02-03-2012, 07:54 AM
If you didn't see this train wreck coming last night, you haven't been paying attention. Too many predictions based on loyalty and blind faith.

This team just isn't very good right now. And frankly, they may not pull out of it this season.

I don't know about all that. They may not be playing great basketball right now, but they are still a pretty good team. Lets not write off the season because of one bad night. We can't all be Italian cruise ship captains who leave the ship right when it starts taking on water.

Zag@LMU
02-03-2012, 07:55 AM
I know the Zags play OOC games in some larger venues, but not conference games. Is this the largest crowd they've played in front of this season? I'm not one to overhype crowd effect, but do any of you think a 19,000+, sell-out Marriott Center was a big factor? As was mentioned in the Spokesman-Review article, that last play of the 1st half Few was screaming at your guys to get set up correctly, but nobody could hear him.
Then again, it was obviously a non-factor with St. Mary's. Just curious on your thoughts.
Im sure it doesnt help, but I would say out of all the teams in the WCC, were going to be the least affected by playing in front of a large away crowd.

Zag@LMU
02-03-2012, 07:55 AM
I don't know about all that. They may not be playing great basketball right now, but they are still a pretty good team. Lets not write off the season because of one bad night. We can't all be Italian cruise ship captains who leave the ship right when it starts taking on water.

Sorry skipper, but its been more than 1. Almost half the season to be exact.

LongIslandZagFan
02-03-2012, 07:58 AM
Sorry skipper, but its been more than 1. Almost half the season to be exact.

17-4 right? Just checking.. Because I could have sworn they were 17-4.

Zag@LMU
02-03-2012, 07:59 AM
17-4 right? Just checking.. Because I could have sworn they were 17-4.

Fortunate to be playing in the WCC to say the least.

LongIslandZagFan
02-03-2012, 08:05 AM
Fortunate to be playing in the WCC to say the least.

Again... What is the record? I guess they must be 9-12. My bad... Guess they do really suck.

Zag@LMU
02-03-2012, 08:07 AM
Again... What is the record? I guess they must be 9-12. My bad... Guess they do really suck.

When was the last time we had a good night against a team that a top 25 high school team wouldn't beat? Xavier? Notre Dame? Michigan State?

bartruff1
02-03-2012, 08:08 AM
Perhaps hyperbole....disgusting is a term I reserve for child molesters.... war criminals ..... Congressmen...not for youngsters playing games.... I give full credit to BYU, as Coach Rose said post game, it was the best defense they had played this year (at least in the first half)...I am proud of the fact that Gonzaga kept sawing wood in the second half. I also give credit to the BYU crowd that behaved so much better...there is a great month and a half of Gonzaga Basketball yet to play and I am so happy, I will get to see every minute of it...

LongIslandZagFan
02-03-2012, 08:11 AM
When was the last time we had a good night against a team that a top 25 high school team wouldn't beat? Xavier? Notre Dame? Michigan State?

Enjoy the view from the lifeboat Capt. Schettino.

Zag@LMU
02-03-2012, 08:20 AM
Enjoy the view from the lifeboat Capt. Schettino.

reality has hit for me. Maybe after Pepperdine it will hit for everyone else.

LongIslandZagFan
02-03-2012, 08:23 AM
reality has hit for me. Maybe after Pepperdine it will hit for everyone else.

Perhaps you should starting rooting for the Lions then. If they truly suck... Why do you bother? Hope the life boat is comfy Capt.

bartruff1
02-03-2012, 08:26 AM
reality has hit for me. Maybe after Pepperdine it will hit for everyone else. I hope that doesn't mean that you will stop posting in here...

Zag@LMU
02-03-2012, 08:27 AM
Perhaps you should starting rooting for the Lions then. If they truly suck... Why do you bother? Hope the life boat is comfy Capt.

How about even when I went to LMU I cheered for the Zags. And wore all my gonzaga gear right smack dab in the middle of the LMU student section. Do not question my support for this program. This loss has been a long time coming, and there will be more before the seasons over. Look at the teams we have left before seasons over.

@Pepperdine
St. Marys
LMU
@SCU
@USF
BYU

We will be lucky to escape that with only two losses the way things have been going since X. We are capable of running the table, but potential and actuality are two completely different animals.

Ezag
02-03-2012, 08:30 AM
With the exception of Bell, how is it that the team has regressed so much since November?

Zag@LMU
02-03-2012, 08:34 AM
With the exception of Bell, how is it that the team has regressed so much since November?

Our starting lineup is made up of 5 role players and 0 stars.

Elias needs to and should be our star, and he is not performing. Team play only goes so far, sometimes a team needs one player who can elevate his game and take over a game. And the 2011-2012 Zags do not have that player.

Zag
02-03-2012, 08:34 AM
Sorry skipper, but its been more than 1. Almost half the season to be exact.

Which season have you been watching? These major problems that you saw and say fans are oblivious to doesn't really meet the eye test or statistical test.

By the eye test...GU has only lost to Illinois(on the road where even Michigan St. just lost), Michigan State(high quality big 10 school), St. Mary's(Top 25 team on the road), and BYU(on the road). Where are all these tragic losses/problems in there? I don't see that.

Statistically...We are an above average team both offensively and defensively. Check any of the copious amounts of efficiency data out there and show me something that says different.

I agree we aren't a top 10 team this year pushing for a national title, but to say the season is lost and this team isn't any good is an overstatement.

Zag@LMU
02-03-2012, 08:38 AM
Which season have you been watching? These major problems that you saw and say fans are oblivious to doesn't really meet the eye test or statistical test.

By the eye test...GU has only lost to Illinois(on the road where even Michigan St. just lost), Michigan State(high quality big 10 school), St. Mary's(Top 25 team on the road), and BYU(on the road). Where are all these tragic losses/problems in there? I don't see that.

Statistically...We are an above average team both offensively and defensively. Check any of the copious amounts of efficiency data out there and show me something that says different.

I agree we aren't a top 10 team this year pushing for a national title, but to say the season is lost and this team isn't any good is an overstatement.
If above average, meaning 150th or better in a category, is all you expect out of this team, then sure, they pass the eye test.

Zag
02-03-2012, 08:42 AM
Our starting lineup is made up of 5 role players and 0 stars.

Elias needs to and should be our star, and he is not performing. Team play only goes so far, sometimes a team needs one player who can elevate his game and take over a game. And the 2011-2012 Zags do not have that player.

I don't think you had good expectations for this team to start the year. If you expected a national title push all season and a perfect WCC run, I think you were being too optomistic. I think most of us expected to potentially split both the BYU and St. Mary's series. If you didn't at least consider that potential, you were being really optomistic given that we start 2 Freshmen guards and have European style post scorers. The zags have room to get better. This bad game doesn't make this a bad team or even a failed season.

Zag
02-03-2012, 08:43 AM
If above average, meaning 150th or better in a category, is all you expect out of this team, then sure, they pass the eye test.

:link:

Do you have a source? I haven't seen any figures showing us 150th in offensive or defensive efficiency.

Zag@LMU
02-03-2012, 08:49 AM
:link:

Do you have a source? I haven't seen any figures showing us 150th in offensive or defensive efficiency.

This team has the talent to be a weekly top 20 team, and somewhere along the way, that potential is not translating into reality.

As far as statistics (national rank):

PPG 69
PA/G 88
FG% 77
Opp FG% 131
STL/G 104
TO/G 140

Definitely not at the level that we are capable of.

Zag
02-03-2012, 08:55 AM
This team has the talent to be a weekly top 20 team, and somewhere along the way, that potential is not translating into reality.


You've got to decide what you are arguing. Is this a top 20 team or is this not your earlier argument, "Our starting lineup is made up of 5 role players and 0 stars."

I agree there is room for improvement. It will come in time. Better to peak late.

Zag@LMU
02-03-2012, 08:58 AM
You've got to decide what you are arguing. Is this a top 20 team or is this not your earlier argument, "Our starting lineup is made up of 5 role players and 0 stars."

I agree there is room for improvement. It will come in time. Better to peak late.

My argument is that for a good 50% of the season or so, we have been playing way below our potential. I haven't swayed from that position the whole thread.

ezcure17
02-03-2012, 09:16 AM
Zag@Lmu is right. we are playing below our capability. So tired of watching us do our harlem globetrotter impersonation way outside the key, passing left to right, back and forth, while the bigs just stand there. We need to have more movement, both with the ball and the players. We hand off back and forth, then when we finally pass to the inside, it is SO telegraphed it is stolen and taken back for an uncontested lay up. not that anyone in the middle could even CATCH the ball .When is the last time you say any of US steal the ball and go for a lay up....not often enough. We need to learn the bounce pass, or maybe a drive in and dump off or kick out to an open shooter. How about learning to screen properly so our shooters can get on open look for a change. Our offense is so stale right now. I think that we need to go more up and down the court, open up our offense a bit, instead of slowing it down and trying to get it inside, which obviously isnt working, as our opponent knows exactly what we are going to do.. AND...how come we can't make adjustments DURING the game, instead of doing the same bad things until halftime....this needs to be fixed, and fast or like LMU said, more losses are coming.

Zag@LMU
02-03-2012, 10:36 AM
I agree with the above. While i support my position based on what I see, I really wish the team would prove me wrong.

I also definitely echo our lack I adjustments. For years we have been a second half team. Why can we not make adjustments on timeouts like we can at halftime?

coolhandzag
02-03-2012, 11:05 AM
True in the purest sense of the score, if the Zags hit five more three's it might have been enough, all other things being equal.

The problem is all other things are not equal, and the poor 3pt shooting is only one of many symptoms.

I understand that the team is 17-4. The crux of the problem lies within two of those losses, specifically the SMC and BYU games.

The team was not prepared mentally or emotionally in either of those loses.
Why? I cannot offer anymore than opinion and conjecture. Was (Is) Pangos just wiped out from the Cold/Flu? Maybe, but that only explains the smallest portion of what is going on. Watching last nightís game left me nonplussed in a way that no other Zag game has.

I know. I know, here comes the shellacking, youíre not a fan; you donít like Big Rob, youÖ.insert comment here. Iím a graduate and as big a supporter as you can expect, but that doesnít change the observation and belief that something is wrong with (in) the program.

You donít think so? Nothing a big win against Pepperdine wonít fix?

Could there possibly be an internal reason for the detachment, inconsistency and lack of interest sometimes displayed? During the SMC and BYU game I kept thinking how the team would perform with Arop at the three.

Food for thought.

jim77
02-03-2012, 11:16 AM
I don't think the team has regressed at all. I really don't. What I do think is folks have figured out how to disrput our offense. The defense has been pretty good all year.....the effort has been good. Basketball is a chessmatch and its time to do things a bit different so they can't keep disrupting our "O". Pepperdine is a nice place to try a few new things.

Do the same ol stuff tomorrow against Pepperdine might produce a victory but, it won't help against the better foes. I still love our guys and think they can get it done....we got the talent....we just need to tweak the plan a bit.


More Mathis's pleases...:)

Reborn
02-03-2012, 01:12 PM
You've got to decide what you are arguing. Is this a top 20 team or is this not your earlier argument, "Our starting lineup is made up of 5 role players and 0 stars."

I agree there is room for improvement. It will come in time. Better to peak late.

Right now I'd have to say we are not a top 20 team, but a top 30. I think that most of the teams this year in the top 25 have had up and down seasons. My God! Look at UCONN right now. Michigaan State has been losing on the road too. And there are plenty examples. Winning on the road is difficult. Give St. Mary's credit. They've been playing well. But, even for them the season is not over. The key will be for the Zags to beat them and then let's see how they deal with that loss.

I'm of the opinion that we are 17-4 with seven games left in conference and 2 or 3 in the conference championship. I wouldn't sell the Zags short by ruling them out right now. It's way too early to do that. I would rather be hitting our bottom now then later. The Zags have a game tomorrow night against Pepperdine and two big games at home next week against St. Mary's and LMU. If they win all of them then I think we all will be feeling much better. So let's wait and see what happens.