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View Full Version : FANTASY BOARDS: Josh WCC Player of the Year



Zags-Bsee
07-12-2007, 03:18 PM
In WCC play with Stanford game mixed in for 10 games total, he averaged

2007 16 points, 9 boards and 2.4 blocks.
2008 20 points, 11 boards and 4 blocks my guess.

The 4 blocks a game in WCC play will focus on his defensive efforts to slighty beat out Pargo's 7 assists up from 5 assists a year ago. Of course if Pargo has 8 assists a game/20 points and Josh only has 3 blocks a game, I'll go with Pargo. But I still think Josh's rebounds and defensive focus will win out.

Of course in fantasy land, I also want Downs and Daye to battle for national scoring title, Matt to have 11 assists a game, Foster to lead the nation in blocked shots, Ira-LG-Davis-Gray-Sorenson remind us of Errol Knight, Sacre-Huge (http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?t=3732) to have JP's form by year end, Pendo to take the final game winning shot of the season after a tenacious rebound by Kuso. That isn't too much to ask, is it?

I couldn't figure out how to get this like a table in columns. Is it possible on this board?

JOSH'S NUMBERS
DATE OPP RESULT MIN PTS REB BLK
6-Jan Loyola-Mary W 97-62 21 10 8 0
9-Jan Pepperdine W 69-52 27 18 7 3
13-Jan @Santa Clara W 77-69 21 12 7 1
16-Jan @St Mary's L 80-75 31 20 8 3
23-Jan @Portland W 80-68 22 14 5 1
27-Jan USF W 72-56 28 16 9 3
30-Jan San Diego W 91-82 25 15 5 1
31-Jan @Stanford W 90-86 39 12 12 3
3-Feb @Pepperdine W 82-57 28 27 22 6
6-Feb @Loyola-Mary L 67-61 33 18 4 3
275 162 87 24
MIN PTS REB BLK
27.5 16.2 8.7 2.4

Nevtelen
07-12-2007, 04:46 PM
I think it'll be hard for anyone to be a 20 ppg scorer on this team - there are just waaaayyyy too many weapons ready to go... If Josh keeps the same numbers he had last year, it'll be an improvement to his skill level, I'd think. With Sacre and Theo and Kuso all grabbing time and boards at 4 or 5 (along with our board-tastic guard corps) and with Sacre, Theo, Kuso, Daye, and Downs along with Josh throwing up some blocks... High #s in any statistic could be hard to come by. Pargo might go up in assists, though, simply because just about any pass he throws could probably end up in a bucket...

Zags-Bsee
07-12-2007, 05:30 PM
I think it'll be hard for anyone to be a 20 ppg scorer on this team -

I tend to agree with you, unless Josh becomes dominant like Adam was. If Josh is our best scorer, rebounder and shot blocker, I think he will get a lot of playing time. And if we are going to go far in March, I think he needs the minutes to develop those skills.

Then again, if he doesn't have the desire to dominate, I agree with a lot of people here that Pargo will take that role in scoring, assists and steals.

Somewhere I think a little birdy is whispering, "you can be a millionaire next year if you dominate your opponent". I think they both can do it.

ZagNut08
07-12-2007, 05:50 PM
this year will have games where a player gets hot and puts up 22+pts, and then 8 the next night. Not neccesarily because they can't buy a basket, but because there are so many scoring options, and any of the guys can get hot on any given night

if we have 5+ guys averageing 10+ppg thats fine with me

Zags-Bsee
07-12-2007, 06:21 PM
this year will have games where a player gets hot and puts up 22+pts, and then 8 the next night. Not neccesarily because they can't buy a basket, but because there are so many scoring options, and any of the guys can get hot on any given night

It could well be that way offensively, but I think Josh will dominate the boards and defensively.

Most everyone on the team can score, but no one else can
score,
rebound, and
block shots
like Josh did against UNC. 33 minutes of playing time.

HEYTVELT FEELING IT (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InqJS6ONXPE)

If he plays like this, the others won't be getting many minutes to score. And when they do, they had better be Morrison good, to keep up with Josh's rebounds and blocked shots. If Josh has some consistent games early like he played at Pepperdine with
27 points
22 rebounds and
6 blocked shots.
Well, ..... he will be a rock star like Adam (http://gozags.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/012906aaa.html). :)

deathchina
07-12-2007, 06:31 PM
I'm thinking closer to 16 points, 8 rebounds, and 2 blocks a game for Josh.

Zags-Bsee
07-12-2007, 07:09 PM
I'm thinking closer to 16 points, 8 rebounds, and 2 blocks a game for Josh.

So are you figuring less minutes or not being any better then last year. From what we hear, he will be better then last year and probably much more focused. If I was coaching, I think balanced playing time, meaning just a little less minutes is best for egos. But, I remember how Adam shot and thought, WOW, gotta play him. He's really good.

Josh was at times really good last year. He will likely create a notieable overall difference between him and anyone who is taking minutes from him this year.

Personally, I hope that it works out the best so Josh has long term happiness, and who knows what will lead to that besides probably great character.

From a team standpoint, I would like 27 points, 22 boards and 6 blocks a night, rock star status and national title talk. Give him Kevin McHales moves and I think he is a lottery pick, but I don't see any JP Batista in Josh. He seems to play more like Tim Duncan. Tim is not a rock star, just a rock. I hope Josh is rock we build on this year.

mendiant
07-12-2007, 07:11 PM
Cough...

Pepperdine??? All do respect to Russell...but undersized out gunned Pepperdine????

Oh and thanks for showing up for UNC.

DO NOT EVEN BEGIN TO COMPARE JOSH TO ADAM!!!!

DAMN, am I tired of the Josh man crushes on this board.

THIS BOY NEEDS TO BE CHALLENGED TO BECOME A MAN.

HE IS NOT GREAT UNTIL HE PROVES HIS DESIRE, CONSISTANCY, AND LOVE FOR HIS TEAM OVER HIMSELF.

LEAVE THE DAMN FLASH ON THE PLAYGROUND. BE A MAN AND THINK OF YOUR TEAM.

if you listen to the man crushes, Josh, you will fail. They think you have arrived.

The sooner Josh recognizes he is PART OF A TEAM, the better for THE TEAM.

Let me ask you this Josh man crushers...are the coaches planning for the post Josh era as they did after ADAM freshman year???? HELL NO!!!!

Quit feeding this kids ego...you are NOT helping!!!

all in the team's (and Josh's) best interest,

mendiant







love,
mendiant

MickMick
07-12-2007, 07:53 PM
With respect to how I personally think, it is certainly not about a "man crush"

Josh passes my "eye test".

There is no amount of discussion (positive or negative) that will change that. I know what I see, and I see NBA caliber potential. The real deal. Now I would hope that much more of it translates to his play at Gonzaga. It has been a frustrating wait to be sure. But I absolutely believe that the team is much better with him, than without him. And I absolutely believe he will be in the NBA draft next year.

Further, I doubt this message board is the sole diet of any player's well fed ego. All the players hear a lot of things from a lot of sources. To cease heaping praise on Josh here will have no impact on his play. I really believe that.

J-Mac Zag Forever
07-12-2007, 08:26 PM
Mendiant, Me thinks you have your own problems when you so vehemently attack. You speak of the team! Most of us are support the team, the whole team. What is said here is read by team members and your attitude has to have a negative impact on the entire team. We want these players to pull together and have a great year.
If Josh fails to honor his role as a Zag, I will join you in your condemnation. Lets as Fans become team players and support the whole TEAM. Its just not Josh that needs to be a team player.

bigparb
07-12-2007, 08:30 PM
I don't see any JP Batista in Josh. He seems to play more like Tim Duncan.

There is no doubt that the first part of this statement is true; HOWEVER, Tim Duncan?? I almost fell out of my chair when I read this one.

Tim Duncan-like he is not; and since I am being critical, I feel compelled to make my own like-sized NBA superstar comparision (sorry mendiant, I'm in the moment right now), which is difficult because Josh does have a unique skill-set.

Drum roll---there's noone that Josh is like....he's a hybrid......Part KG, Part Rashard Lewis.

KG has a much better block game, handles the ball better and is longer, but even now, he doesn't have Josh's outside shooting ability.

Rashard Lewis, a 6'10" athlete is probably the closest thing in the league I could match with Josh. If Josh works very hard on his ballhandling, this could be it, with Josh being slightly more focused on the interior game with his rebounding/shot blocking ability and Rashard being a better 3pt bomber. Rashard may be a bit faster/quicker than Josh, but they are very similar athletes.

:boxing:

deathchina
07-12-2007, 10:55 PM
"So are you figuring less minutes or not being any better then last year."


I don't see his scoring output increasing because next year's team will have so many offensive weapons....shots will be spread around a bit more.

As for rebounding....Whoever is playing in the frontcourt next to Josh will be a much better rebounder than Mallon was.....less rebounds to be had.

And outside of some nice highlights (UNC), I don't think Josh is a great shot blocker.

Nevtelen
07-12-2007, 11:12 PM
I gotta agree with dc on everything except (maybe) the shot-blocking. You might see Josh play and think... "Wow, gotta play him" - but it'll be the same with Pargo perhaps or Downs or Daye or other players. There are just so many pts to be had in a game and we have tons of scoring punch and more rebounding, too. If Josh maintains his stats from last season, I think we could see it as a pretty good indication that his skill-level has improved from last year.

As for the blocks - Josh isn't yet a great shot-blocker, but he could be. He just needs to work on the little things like keeping it in play and jumping second (why he didn't do that all the time I will never know). If he shows more of that, he'll be a tremendous shot-blocker.

MickMick
07-13-2007, 04:02 AM
If the Zags are going to lead the nation in scoring (http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/stats/teamsort/NCAAB/SCORING/culm?&_1:col_1=4), there is plenty of room for Josh (as well as other Zags) to score more points. ;)

Hmmm...nice team 3pt percentage!

gamagin
07-13-2007, 06:45 AM
and I cringe.

we have plenty (read 3-4 at a time) really good outside shooters.

the worst memory of mine re JH is seeing him drift out to the top of the key and shoot, leaving the high percentage put back begging because the man shooting is the one I was hoping would be there, under the basket, in case the shot missed.

this happened over and over.

we don't need his outside shot. we need his inside shot, imo. his intensity underneath. His banging and dominating. underneath. in the pit.

Zags-Bsee
07-13-2007, 08:33 AM
The facts are the facts. Josh averaged really good numbers last year as a sophmore. 16 points, 7 rebounds and 2 blocked shots a game with a 3 point % .404 almost identical to Dereks .409. If he would have finished out the season, he would have to be considered for WCC player of the year, last year.

No crush, just the facts.

He played very inconsistent last year and that may change. Combined with a growth in his abilities, and any Zag fan will enjoy that.

My main point is that Josh's rebounds and defense in the paint will make for strong points in the WCC player of the year choice. The Carolina game showed against a strong team his ability to dominate. Simply put, if he plays like that all this year, he will garner national player of the year consideration.

Our team played great without him last year, but I do hope they play better with him as a team player this year. Every season ends with a very painful loss. I hope that changes. I hope Josh is a big part of that. The basketball world clearly knows he has that potential.

zaguarxj
07-13-2007, 08:37 AM
So are you figuring less minutes or not being any better then last year.

There's another possibility. If Josh starts drawing double teams whenever he touches the ball, it could be more difficult for him to score big numbers consistently. Remember that DR was the defensive focus for most of the Zags' opponents last year. It wouldn't be a terrible thing if other teams had to double down low and open things up for the shooters outside.

Zags-Bsee
07-13-2007, 08:47 AM
and I cringe.

we have plenty (read 3-4 at a time) really good outside shooters.

Heh, It not Josh's fault that his 3pt % is as good as Dereks or that we didn't have any other huge men ready to go. For all I care, play Foster and Sacre-huge as center with Kuso all year long for rebounds. Let Josh shoot all the equivalent 60% 3 pointers he wants to take with others to put back the misses. Of course it won't hurt to have a 6'11" guy to help on the boards as well.

we don't need his outside shot. we need his inside shot, imo. his intensity underneath. His banging and dominating. underneath. in the pit.

I wish Josh played that way, but I don't think it is going to happen. Put him on any great college team as a 3 or a 4 and they will feel love all day long with his all around game. Our problem, not his.

But I suppose we are going to start asking Austin Daye to play center.

If we played Foster as Center, Sacre as power forward, Josh as small forward, Downs as shooting gaurd, and Jeremy as point, I would be happy watching that for awhile.

Josh would have a guy 5" shorter then him gaurding his 3 point attempts which might go in at a 50% clip in that scenerio. His misses would be well cared for.

So tell me how that is different from depending on DR's 3 point game. That's it, make Josh the shooting gaurd.

Zags-Bsee
07-13-2007, 08:57 AM
Tim Duncan-like he is not;

So averaging 20 points, 10 boards and 2 blocks like Tim isn't close.

Or Josh's bank shot from the exact same position as Tim's.

Or Josh's interior defense.

Or Josh being the same height, same weight.

He doesn't have the same discipline..... or maybe he will.

My guess is with the extra weight, strenght and experience, Josh will look a lot like Tim this year in the paint.

But I have a new campaign to make Josh our shooting gaurd, focusing on his 3 point game and getting 10 rebounds and 4 blocks from the shooting gaurd position.

If Josh can average 50% 3 point shooting with a lot of shots, he will make me look really good as a coach. It's not Josh's problem that we play him like a center, when he would truely dominate as a shooting gaurd.

Defensively as shooting gaurd he would be an animal with Kuso, Foster, and Sacre to back him up.

sonuvazag
07-13-2007, 09:04 AM
Or Josh's bank shot from the exact same position as Tim's.

I'm going to back you up here, BSEE. Josh's 12-15 foot post moves intimate Duncan for me too. And, don't forget, Tim buries 19-footers all the time for 2 points in the NBA.

I think Josh would do well for himself to look at Tim's game the way Morrison borrowed Bird's tricks. Maybe he already does.

You can take offense that we breathe these names in the same sentence. In terms of accomplishment, there is no comparison.

Hopefully, in terms of work ethic and skill set, Josh dedicates himself and goes further in the direction of Tim. Not a bad role model.

Zags-Bsee
07-13-2007, 04:30 PM
5th Scoring
2nd Rebounding
3rd Field Goal %
3rd Blocked Shots
1st Defensive Rebounding

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/west/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/mbbrelease-3-14-07.pdf

Most of those that finished ahead of him are now gone.

These game averages include the tough schedule that Gonzaga had.

Josh would have been competitive for WCC player of the year last year. This year, he is probably the one to beat. Of course, I thought he was a lock last year, the way things started. Things change.

Nevtelen
07-13-2007, 05:46 PM
There are other considerations than just stats, too, as we saw last season. I think it'll be hard for Josh to win it because of his past issues. I think politics comes into it at that point. Not that he can't win it, but if there's anyone else even close to him, I wonder if the conference wouldn't choose the other player as WCC POY. Just a thought.

mendiant
07-13-2007, 06:06 PM
Mendiant, Me thinks you have your own problems when you so vehemently attack. You speak of the team! Most of us are support the team, the whole team. What is said here is read by team members and your attitude has to have a negative impact on the entire team. We want these players to pull together and have a great year.
If Josh fails to honor his role as a Zag, I will join you in your condemnation. Lets as Fans become team players and support the whole TEAM. Its just not Josh that needs to be a team player.


Thanks for your input, but let me clarify without so much passion...

I worry about Josh...

Yes, he has potential. He CANNOT ride on potential. This is the time for learning, honing improvement, if he is to make it to the next level.

I AM PULLING FOR JOSH 100%!!! I AM PULLING FOR THIS TEAM TO GET TOGETHER 100%. I AM A ZAG FAN BEFORE I AM A FAN OF ANY INDIVIDUAL PLAYER.

I become concerned when some fans think Josh is it for the team, when any single player is spotlighted without concern for the team.

Even the attention paid to Adam was somewhat discomforting to me.

I apologize if my rant was taken as a rant against Josh...not intended...at all.

It's a team sport...and as yet, Josh is far from hero material...but he has GREAT potential...for the team, for his future.

I just want him to focus on the task at hand and NOT on the starry eyes of many on this board...

I hope this clarifies my way too impassioned post.

thanks,
mendiant

Zags-Bsee
07-13-2007, 06:37 PM
I become concerned when some fans think Josh is it for the team, when any single player is spotlighted without concern for the team.

Even the attention paid to Adam was somewhat discomforting to me.

I apologize if my rant was taken as a rant against Josh...not intended...at all.

It's a team sport...and as yet, Josh is far from hero material...but he has GREAT potential...for the team, for his future.

I just want him to focus on the task at hand and NOT on the starry eyes of many on this board...

I struggled with the attention paid to Adam, he was very good, but I sensed it took away from team defense.

I think you are taking some posts out of context of a person's overall posts and comments. Factually, it is pretty clear that Josh is one of our top players statistically and should be the leading contenter for POY. If you think someone else has better odds at this point, let me know.

This is a message board, not the coaching staff. We are just discussing Zag stuff like a bunch of friends over a beer. If I have starry eyes for Josh, then I am not alone.

That being said, I would be happy to have the team with or without Josh playing aggresive team defense.

The problem is almost every comment can seem like it is saying something, somebody isn't going to like. It wouldn't be much of a message board without some interesting thoughts being thrown out their for comments.

But I still think Josh's rebounds and defensive focus will win out.

That is the focus of how I started this thread and I stand by it. If you are going to evaluate the Zags as a team, a big man that can play defense is right at the top of the list with a point gaurd that can lead the team.

Josh is a top 5 big man talent that plays great defense.

If minutes were handed out by defensive effort, he would probably get the most minutes.

I don't care about all the politics of Josh. I care for his long term happiness and I hope nothing I ever say has a negative effect on him or the team.

When I posted that, I hoped for comments agreeing or disagree and some great links. Which I got. I'm happy. The only thing better is the season starting.

Thanks to all for the zag appetizers we enjoy here.

If Josh has a great season with nothing bad happening, I think it will be a national comeback story as Gonzaga will be a national story. I hope for the best. Certainly the press owes him the same intensity on the positive side if succeeds.

bigparb
07-14-2007, 12:16 AM
So averaging 20 points, 10 boards and 2 blocks like Tim isn't close.

Or Josh's bank shot from the exact same position as Tim's.

Or Josh's interior defense.

Or Josh being the same height, same weight.

He doesn't have the same discipline..... or maybe he will.

My guess is with the extra weight, strenght and experience, Josh will look a lot like Tim this year in the paint.

Not to get into a nit-picky war of words or opinions here but Bsee, come on bro, this is a joke, right? Josh's game is NOTHING like TD's (aside for the the kiss of the glass from the 15'). Here's something I posted about Josh in a previous thread, which IMO, is a bit more of reality based evaluation of Josh. Feel free to sub "TD" in place of "JP" for effect.


2) Heytvelt--21-52-40.4%...again not a 3pt bomber by trade......I actually can appreciate Josh for what he is, which is a highly skilled face up PF who can step out and stroke the 3. What a weapon!! Let's not get hung up on what he isn't, which is a back to the back, low block force a la JP, and let's not get too worried about turning him into "that guy". Don't get me wrong though, I'd love to see Josh round out his game and develop a pet move or two on the block, but his footwork needs A LOT of work. Can we send him to the Pete Newell Big Man Camp or see if we can get JP to take him in for a month??

Let Josh be who he is....we've got Theo, Kuso and Sacre to bang with the opposing teams Center.

:starwars:

Zag79
07-14-2007, 01:35 AM
great posts Zags-Bsee, especially the NC clips of Josh. face it people, the guy is a special talent. there is no "man crush" on him, he is flat out good. look at his numbers. too many of you let the arrest play down his game. he is paying his dues, and you will be typing about how good he is and how far he has come mid season, i can see it now. NBA. say it with me, N-B-A. thats where he will be. a player that can get there on this roster is OK by me.

Zags-Bsee
07-14-2007, 02:02 PM
Not to get into a nit-picky war of words or opinions here but Bsee, come on bro, this is a joke, right? Josh's game is NOTHING like TD's (aside for the the kiss of the glass from the 15').

Let Josh be who he is....we've got Theo, Kuso and Sacre to bang with the opposing teams Center.


Okay I re-watched the highlights from UNC where Josh blocked Tyler at least 2 times and I think his game looks exactly like Tim Duncans. It doesn't look like KG or Lewis.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InqJS6ONXPE

I think this year with extra weight and strength we will see Josh with a low post game not because of footwork or skills, just sheer strength and athletic ability.

Personally I would let Josh play whatever position he is most productive at and let other fill in the gaps throughout the season to develop their skills. I hope Foster and Sacre become solid centers. I think if you include rebounds, blocked shots and garbage buckets - they will do well.

Most of all, I believe Josh hasn't found his comforts zone for scoring yet. Thus the inconsistent play. If he hit his outside shots he can score a lot with the garbage buckets around the hoop. But I wouldn't feel confortable yet with him as the go to person, especially if the other team knows it.

With our shooters and drivers that we have, I wouldn't run many plays to Josh, I would simply get him to focus on knowing where the rebounds will be for each type of shot and do screen and rolls.

But I hope this season he develops a smooth high percentage inside game like JP with his extra weight and strength. Against most teams, he could be dominant. Until then, pick and roll and throw it in his general direction. I think that is good for 60% shooting.

I don't remember Josh ever feeling very confortable dribbling the ball.