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View Full Version : What Did Hart Do to Few?



HRZag
02-02-2012, 09:06 PM
It is unbelievable.

From solid starter, solid contributor (D and O rebounds) to nada.

WTF?

Keita and Moonman, 0-4.

Unbelievable.

kclubfounder
02-02-2012, 09:07 PM
Good question.

What did he do?

The Mathis brothers certainly are not cutting it right now.

Bulldog
02-02-2012, 09:11 PM
Who could play worse than those that have, so far?

btzag
02-02-2012, 09:18 PM
Yeah bizarre... in a game where you need a solid, positive and hustling presence on the floor he sits and you put a couple frantic guys on the floor trying to prove themselves.

I dare a reporter to actually do their job and ask him why Hart has been benched.

Bombs over Zaghdad
02-02-2012, 09:20 PM
Maybe P-Mac knows.



Too soon?

Oregonzagnut
02-02-2012, 09:26 PM
Few needs no accountability and fans must be kept in the dark in order to keep the secret coaching philosophy intact.

Hart was given time in the OC schedule because it is part of Few experimenting. so now the experiment is over and Few is going back to the logical choices for minutes.

You can read that to mean "no logic".

Beer_Engineer
02-02-2012, 09:51 PM
Pff, is this really a thread? Let this sleeping dog lie already.

btzag
02-02-2012, 09:55 PM
Pff, is this really a thread? Let this sleeping dog lie already.

No you are wrong.

3's played terrible tonight and Few subbed in untested Keita and MM for important minutes instead of Hart who has put in solid minutes all year and was the starter at one point. This is a very valid topic and should be discussed.

Beer_Engineer
02-02-2012, 09:57 PM
No you are wrong.

We're getting beat in ways Hart would make no difference in.

Bulldog
02-02-2012, 10:00 PM
I thought we did a good job of hanging in against a better prepared team.

Martin Centre Mad Man
02-02-2012, 10:14 PM
No you are wrong.

We're getting beat in ways Hart would make no difference in.

He played solid D against Hartsock, rebounded well and didn't turn the ball over. That is more than I can say for just about anybody else out there.

Ezag
02-02-2012, 10:15 PM
He played solid D against Hartsock, rebounded well and didn't turn the ball over. That is more than I can say for just about anybody else out there.

+1. Hart should have been in much earlier

VinnyZag
02-02-2012, 10:17 PM
I think it's funny that we've gone from threads griping about Hart playing to threads griping about Hart not playing.

rawkmandale
02-02-2012, 10:19 PM
Mike Hart always settles things down when we are rattled. That is why I can't believe he wasn't in during that horrible stretch in the first half.

Same for Stockton, frankly. Those two guys are nails.

Birddog
02-02-2012, 10:20 PM
Hart plays better D than anybody but Bell. Watch his footwork. He makes few errors and plays solid minutes. He's not an offensive threat but he isn't a turnover liability either. Edi's athleticism is eye popping but Hart's plus minus is better I bet. The Mathis Bros experiment was laughable this game.

caduceus
02-02-2012, 10:21 PM
I think it's funny that we've gone from threads griping about Hart playing to threads griping about Hart not playing.

Agreed! He's as much a baller as anyone else on the team. I can name quite a few players that were far less solid than Hart tonight.

He shut down Hartsock to a significant degree. Had he played more minutes, the outcome could have very well been different (Hartsock had 24 pts tonight).

MDABE80
02-02-2012, 10:22 PM
Mike's a good player. Smart hardworking and his defense is the best on this team. His offense hasn't been great. I always figured what he did on defense, steals, rebounds, etc more than made up for his offense.

Few's got a severe love of offense and points. I say defense wins these games. Maybe he'll rethink his position on offense. Remeber, last year when we were in a terrible hole, it was the defense that won those games at the end...PLUS some help from LMU and USD.

I'd get Hart back to work. Edi a much better athlete but Mike knows how to play the game and win. Much better team guy.

Zag79
02-03-2012, 12:17 AM
Hart plays better D than anybody but Bell. Watch his footwork. He makes few errors and plays solid minutes. He's not an offensive threat but he isn't a turnover liability either. Edi's athleticism is eye popping but Hart's plus minus is better I bet. The Mathis Bros experiment was laughable this game.

I agree, Hart is a difference maker. His defense is better than GBJ if you ask me, and he rebounds alot more. Hart does everything better than almost every player but score. I would say a guy like that needs to be on the court, and it showed. Few seems lost at times, as if he doesnt even know what to tell the guys to do. Why did we settle for so many threes, instead of feeding the post until late in the game? How come Dower and Carter didnt play even more considering they were two of the best players tonight? The rotation is too big, and we need some consistency of who plays when. Tonight was poorly played, and poorly coached. I cant wait for Saturday so the fellas can rebound (and literally), theres some games to be win and its not over. We win out, and SMC drops another one.

raise the zag
02-03-2012, 12:24 AM
Few has been focused on developing his Freshman guards(maybe overdeveloped?), he's lost pulse of his veterans, imo.

Mike Hart should be playing as he did earlier in the season. Guy Edi played a total of 4 mins tonight. Hart knows the offense b4 it happens, in some ways looked like the best player in limited mins this game.

Elias & Rob stunk it up tonight(so did Coach Few, take some accountability!)

ONLY bright spot: Marquise Carter. Refreshing to see him do well.

Everyone else can shove it, including the Coaching staff who looked just as lost as rattled, frazzled, no poise and no composure as the players.

Worse than the St Mary's game, imo. Much worse.

Kevin Pangos has hit a wall.

Still need to allow Gary Bell to take-over, but more reactive than proactive at this juncture, obviously our best player/shooter/creator/etc.

Give GBJ the green light, Pangos the yellow, get on our vets arses, and make things happen...we seemed completely shocked, surprised, slighted in the 1st half -- no excuses, poor coaching, imo.

Baseline
02-03-2012, 12:39 AM
Hart has not played much for 3 games and we are playing our worst ball, coincidence, I think not.
Hartstock (sp) goes off and no one controls him, Hart comes in and his rein of terror comes to an end.
Hart doesn't score much, but he doesn't bounce it off his foot or jack up wild shots that miss by a mile. Carter keeps driving and has zero elevation and gets slapped down almost every time, that is killing us. I think I would rather have Harts rebounding, hustle and defense compared to what the others are showing.
Hart is a better rebounder than Sacrae.

raise the zag
02-03-2012, 12:45 AM
WE NEED ANSWERS!

this seems like the most obvious one -- why try to fix something when it ain't broke?

Mike Hart was working, our team was working, why pull him? We were on a roll with MH as a starter, even in limited mins or setting the tone for each half.

In his 4-5 mins, he played damn solid AGAIN tonight.

Enough BS, play the most effective & efficient players, even in limited mins.

Mike Hart was our identity early on -- both defensively and starting out offensively.

We've lost sight of that.

We need to get back on track and the coaches can certainly make this call.

Zag79
02-03-2012, 01:02 AM
Few has been focused on developing his Freshman guards(maybe overdeveloped?), he's lost pulse of his veterans, imo.

Mike Hart should be playing as he did earlier in the season. Guy Edi played a total of 4 mins tonight. Hart knows the offense b4 it happens, in some ways looked like the best player in limited mins this game.

Elias & Rob stunk it up tonight(so did Coach Few, take some accountability!)

ONLY bright spot: Marquise Carter. Refreshing to see him do well.

Everyone else can shove it, including the Coaching staff who looked just as lost as rattled, frazzled, no poise and no composure as the players.

Worse than the St Mary's game, imo. Much worse.

Kevin Pangos has hit a wall.

Still need to allow Gary Bell to take-over, but more reactive than proactive at this juncture, obviously our best player/shooter/creator/etc.

Give GBJ the green light, Pangos the yellow, get on our vets arses, and make things happen...we seemed completely shocked, surprised, slighted in the 1st half -- no excuses, poor coaching, imo.

Elias and Rob were 5 for 12, and 7 for 10 from the line. 11 rebounds. I would have liked to see them get the ball more when they were on the court, too much shooting from the outside. GBJ has the green light, and tonight it was too much. He took too many poor shots, and until late was the worst shooter. I agree about Carter, he was great and its fun to see. Hart needs more time, and our bench needs to tighten up.

Zag79
02-03-2012, 01:04 AM
Hart has not played much for 3 games and we are playing our worst ball, coincidence, I think not.
Hartstock (sp) goes off and no one controls him, Hart comes in and his rein of terror comes to an end.
Hart doesn't score much, but he doesn't bounce it off his foot or jack up wild shots that miss by a mile. Carter keeps driving and has zero elevation and gets slapped down almost every time, that is killing us. I think I would rather have Harts rebounding, hustle and defense compared to what the others are showing.
Hart is a better rebounder than Sacrae.

Carter was 3 for 6 from the floor, one was a three. He was 7 for 9 from the line. How is that killing us, considering he got to the line more than anyone else on the team? Carter made us go for the second time in two games, I love what im seeing out of him.

jim77
02-03-2012, 02:04 AM
Hart plays better D than anybody but Bell. Watch his footwork. He makes few errors and plays solid minutes. He's not an offensive threat but he isn't a turnover liability either. Edi's athleticism is eye popping but Hart's plus minus is better I bet. The Mathis Bros experiment was laughable this game.

Hart plays BETTER D than Bell. Oh, you mean the 30 second (Mathis)experiment....hey at least they can see over the guy guarding them. A turnover doesn't even produce a missed shot...it produces nothing. The Mathis's at least got to shoot it...and open at that. MK needs to drive the hole more..and he has the size to do it.

This 3 short guard lineup is a disaster...at least Heart can D somebody up. I like our guards but, the coach needs only 1 PG in the game at a time..not 3. Also, if you're gonna play 3 guards..at least give them a fighting chance by zoning. The reason why the offense is sputtering is because our point of attack has been disrupted. You simply can't make many good passes when the other guys are quicker AND longer. Our bigs are suffering because of it too....they either create or they are screwed. Like the Mathis's or not.(Heart Too) we had better get a longer lineup or this streak think is over.(both). I like EDI but his ballhandling is a bit weak. The coach needs to pick his point...MC is an OK 2...Kieta would be too if he got more than 30 seconds a game...Remember LMU? We won't beat any good teams bigger than us with or current lineup. ST. Mary's will eat us alive again with this current guard lovefest. Our guard playmaking is being shut down by good defenses...kudos to BYU.

We could have Really used Kelly this game......he can create and they had nobody to guard him. The guards at least can huck it up to Kelly .....who can see the floor and CAN pass.

jim77
02-03-2012, 02:44 AM
Few has been focused on developing his Freshman guards(maybe overdeveloped?), he's lost pulse of his veterans, imo.

Mike Hart should be playing as he did earlier in the season. Guy Edi played a total of 4 mins tonight. Hart knows the offense b4 it happens, in some ways looked like the best player in limited mins this game.

Elias & Rob stunk it up tonight(so did Coach Few, take some accountability!)

ONLY bright spot: Marquise Carter. Refreshing to see him do well.

Everyone else can shove it, including the Coaching staff who looked just as lost as rattled, frazzled, no poise and no composure as the players.

Worse than the St Mary's game, imo. Much worse.

Kevin Pangos has hit a wall.

Still need to allow Gary Bell to take-over, but more reactive than proactive at this juncture, obviously our best player/shooter/creator/etc.

Give GBJ the green light, Pangos the yellow, get on our vets arses, and make things happen...we seemed completely shocked, surprised, slighted in the 1st half -- no excuses, poor coaching, imo.

"Overdeveloped"...probably true. Theres just to much inexperience/lack of Size at the guard position. We can no longer afford to develop 2 at a time.....at least against tough foes.

jim77
02-03-2012, 02:52 AM
Carter was 3 for 6 from the floor, one was a three. He was 7 for 9 from the line. How is that killing us, considering he got to the line more than anyone else on the team? Carter made us go for the second time in two games, I love what im seeing out of him.

Agreed 79.....MC and a PG is good enough. When's the last time a big stepped out to the top of the key to screen for a guard? Its so predictable its rediculous. Also, more zone defense please...you're 3 guard offense needs the rest.

BMAN
02-03-2012, 07:02 AM
I understand that Hart is not starting because of Spanglers injury. Hart tends to get quick fouls. If Sacre, Harris and Dower get into foul trouble which are 3 have done in games this year Hart is now the back up guy. They don't want him to get any quick fouls. We might see more of Hart when Spangler is back.

kclubfounder
02-03-2012, 07:25 AM
Until recently I've been of the opinion that this is the strongest defensive and rebounding team in the Few era. Now I'm no longer of that opinion. What has changed? I think the answer is hidden in this thread.

And I don't think Hart is as weak offensively anymore. He seems to be finishing when given the chance, makes his free throws at a reasonable clip, and most importantly - extends numerous possessions by grabbing offensive rebounds and loose balls.

cjm720
02-03-2012, 07:28 AM
No you are wrong.

We're getting beat in ways Hart would make no difference in.

You can't deny our offensive flow and defensive tenacity has changed since he's been out of the lineup. As spazzy as he could play, he brought a certain calm to this team. I'd like to see him play more.

That said, if MM hits one of those 3s, the outcome of the game could have been different...Few knows best, but I'm very curious as to why Hart's not playing more...starter to hardly any minutes...head scratcher.

zag944
02-03-2012, 08:13 AM
We dont see the practices. The best players play. We cant question Mark Few because we arent division 1 coaches. :p Or so all Mike Hart's biggest fans told us. Perhaps now we can all admit that the rotations are about as bizarre as they can get?

I dont get it at all. If MM and MK are going to hang out on the bench all season that's fine with me, but to use them sparingly then put them in that pressure cooker of a situation is really odd. Worse for a players confidence than not playing is air balling a three in front of 20,000+

rennis
02-03-2012, 08:13 AM
You can't deny our offensive flow and defensive tenacity has changed since he's been out of the lineup. As spazzy as he could play, he brought a certain calm to this team. I'd like to see him play more.


I agree. I'm not sure I'd start MH, but I'd sure as hell sub him in sooner on Hartsock. He all but shut that guy down when he was on him. I have no doubt if Hart had defended him for ~15 minutes of that game, his stats would have been much less impressive.

milehighzagfan
02-03-2012, 08:36 AM
The Zags have looked really horrible since Hart got demoted. That is the truth. More Mike hart please!

Martin Centre Mad Man
02-03-2012, 09:17 AM
I understand that Hart is not starting because of Spanglers injury. Hart tends to get quick fouls. If Sacre, Harris and Dower get into foul trouble which are 3 have done in games this year Hart is now the back up guy. They don't want him to get any quick fouls. We might see more of Hart when Spangler is back.

I understand that logic, to an extent. He picked up some quick fouls in the limited minutes that he was no Hartsock at the end. I still wouldn't wait until the absolute closing minutes of a game to play him. Rotate him in and out over the course of a game and see if he doesn't provide some hustle plays to motivate the guys around him.

bartruff1
02-03-2012, 09:38 AM
Always has, always will. The best players always play. The best players are the ones that can make a positive contribution in the current game with consideration for investing in the future. Hart is a consumer staple... Edi is a IPO... Carter is a strong buy...Mark is a genius....but of course, he doesn't know as much as some of us....

jim77
02-03-2012, 11:13 AM
The other thing Hart brings(besides heart..pun intended) is a safety valve for the guards. If the guards got pressured before they could relie on him to bail them out....the guy will come to the ball when their in trouble. The guys stuff doesn't always show up in the scorers box. Heart should start all games in the future because it will discourage other teams from pressureing our young guards into turnovers....and keep us from such rough starts. I think he brings a calm to our guards to a point.