View Full Version : Who could rise and How, to provide the Missing Ingrediant?

01-27-2012, 04:05 PM
BZ put his finger right upon the personality of this team. We are so close to being great, but just not there yet. BZ's thread was regarding mostly whether people agreed. What I am hoping for this thread is that people post WHO and HOW might provide that special "thing" that we need We will take for granted that absent a complete meltdown, we'll make the tournament - we might (doubt it) win the conference and conference tourney grinding, w/o that "Special ingrediant" but we will not get past the first weekend in March without it - that we can nearly certain of:

My choice: One or both of the below:

Carter does what he did last year - becomes a go to guy, nails threes, hits FT at 80% and drives the lane to get to the FT line. If Carter can do this, we will never need the dreaded Pangos/Bell/Stockton line up. We will play good defense, and we will get more consistent scoring.

Second one may surprise - Pangos starts being both more aggressive AND hot from three. This may surprise some people. I think that generally, we are getting all we can get out of our bigs, good/bad they are playing at the highest level that they can consistently play (one game exceptions, i.e. SD last night don't count). But, I think Pangos CAN raise his play, he is that good. Bell has consistently gotten better. Pangos has that a great little tear drop, and is great getting guys great looks with his passing, but like it or not, his passing often meets stone hands. Where he could really raise the team up is looking for and being more aggressive from 3 and draining them. He is not far off, his misses versus SMC, LMU and UP. all on the road, were "almost" / "in and out" / "so close" - I think he can get hot and sustain it. That is why I think we could get that little extra something from Pangos, b/c he is so close.

My God, I know how lucky we are to have a kid playing as well as him as a Frosh. And I am not saying he isn't doing a million things to help us win. All that I am saying is, I don't think anyone other than the two above is likely to raise their game enough to really provide the "ingrediant" Bob was right to point out.

I would LOVE to hear your opinion, even if I get flamed - maybe I am dead wrong. I think we need more scoring, our defense is steady, but look at our totals the last 3 away games. What do you think?

01-27-2012, 04:33 PM
New Poster, old zag. I live in Chicago and have semi season tickets to the Bulls. This is my second year with the tickets and am now waking up to their opponents players, seeing them up close and personal. Can't tell you how impressed I am with two point guards I've seen, Derron Williams and Steve Nash. They can make your team look real bad. They shoot , they penetrate, they set up the play, oh yes they can dribble right through your entire team.

A good point guard goes a long way to making any team great. If Pangos can step it up this would go along way. He's a bit undersized but given some development this can be overcome. Stockton would have been good too, if he were about three to four inches taller. Probably his hands are a bit too small. If this occurs and GBJ develops as a shooter we should be real good in the next three years.

Was at the Illinois games here in Chicago and Notre Dame and am hungry to see a winner in person.

Go Zags,

PS My older son is an Illinois grad and an even bigger Zag fan!

maynard g krebs
01-27-2012, 05:26 PM
Carter is the guy you're talking about imo, simply because he's the one guy who has done it before. He took a big step forward last nite. Even if he doesn't get his shot back, he's making better decisions than earlier, and improving the offense as compared w/ the other options.

Pangos has a lot of weight on his shoulders, and is playing a lot for a fr and looks to me like he might be hitting the wall a little bit. Struggling w/ his shot lately; maybe a bit of mental fatigue? Just speculating, but I don't think any more should be placed on his shoulders.

To me, Bell is the other guy who can add more, and week by week, he seems to be doing that, but incrementally. If he starts hunting his shot the way he did in hs, shooting 4-6 3's a game like Pangos is, it would add another dimension to the offense. I think when this team reaches its potential (and I don't think that will happen this year), it will be Bell who is the leading scorer and Pangos concentrating on being the floor general/facilitator.

01-27-2012, 07:53 PM
:agreed: Agree on Carter, keep the playing time coming and it will benefit the team in the long run.

01-27-2012, 08:36 PM
Agreed in the short run its Carter. Seems that he blossoms in the second half of the season. Saw him at Notre Dame last year and he did exactly that.

01-27-2012, 08:39 PM
Consistent 3 point shooting. I believe this team is top 20 when they're hitting 6 or more 3's a game.

01-27-2012, 09:17 PM
Carter 20 minutes a game and push the transition game

01-27-2012, 09:27 PM
I see a pattern in that we have lost our outside 3pt prowess, and frankly, it really doesn't matter who is the one who can rise to do that. It was a big part of why we beat some teams early in the year, and it has been almost absent lately.

I would buy the argument that Pangos is up against the wall if it weren't for the fact that his backcourt mate is coming on stronger and stronger. But, Pangos was saddled with more responsbility earlier, and everyone is different.

Yes, Carter has done it before, but he started earlier and it is getting awefully late for that ship to arrive, true, he had a nice game last night, it is going to be exceedingly hard to string a few together with the difficult teams upcoming.

I actually think that Pangos is as likely as Carter to provide what we need. He might be fatigued, if so, one game in 12 days is a great time to renew yourself. I am pinning a lot of hope on the game continuing to slow down for him, he shot well early, but wasn't solely responsible for runnning the offense, perhaps now he is ready to do both. Not saying we need him to have 24 a game, but 16 - 20 as opposed to 11 (and half of them being FTs at the end) would help a lot.

01-28-2012, 06:19 AM
GBJ is our go to guy he just doesn't know it yet.

Gary has the ability to do it all and needs to enforce his will within the game flow. He can pull up from anywhere on the floor elevate and hit the"J", bomb from long range or finish at the glass.

If he elevates his game to the point he is worrisome to our opponents the rest of the team will prosper.

He would be my choice for the final shot over any Zag on the team.

Go!! Zags!!!

01-28-2012, 06:58 AM
is the 3-ball. whether it is KP, GBJ, or MC we need to make 6+ per game as a team to really be hitting on all cylinders. Making that number of 3's opens up the lane for driving plus gives the bigs more room to operate in the paint. GLE has shown some ability to hit from behind the arc, and MM can get hot as well.

It's a guard driven game in the Tourney and we have the guards to make a statement, both for this year and in the future. The next couple of weeks are the time for those guys to step up. They have been playing at a very high level this year (except for MC, so far) and if they can find that next gear for the stretch run we'll be in great shape.

We're not that far off. I agree that the bigs (especially EH) are playing as well as we are going to see.

The next couple of weeks will be fun to watch.


01-28-2012, 08:13 AM
The ingredients are all there. They just need to simmer a we-bit longer.

The guy who is Gonzaga the most right now is Sam Dower. Teams have figured out that he can't go right, and they overplay his left to force him right. Sam doesn't seem to care. He never passes the ball. I hope Spangler gets back to his old form because I think Zags really lack a back up low post player right now.

It's nice to see Rob back to his old self. He has played so well in the last 3 or 4 games. He does have the heart of a lion. I hope Sam does too.

Edi still needs to improve, but I believe he has enough time to do that, and now that Carter is playing much better I think the 3 will be ok the rest of the year.

What I like best about all this is that "our" team is Gonzaga University, and that is the BEST meal on the menu. Gonzaga prime rib is better than a St Mary's steak any day. Yes, yes, yes it's not tasting quite right yet. Let it marinate a little more. The Zags are getting ready to go into the second half of the season. I think thats the time when the ingredients all come together.

raise the zag
01-28-2012, 08:26 AM
The guy who is Gonzaga the most right now is Sam Dower. Teams have figured out that he can't go right, and they overplay his left to force him right. Sam doesn't seem to care. He never passes the ball. I hope Spangler gets back to his old form because I think Zags really lack a back up low post player right now.

Always feels like Sam is "trying to get his" while he's playing.

I'd tell him to shoot too, yet considering Sam is far-and-away the best at getting out of double-teams and isolating defenders, Elias Harris and/or Rob is usually open around the rim when Dower is making a move.

I agree, I'd like to see Sam pass a bit more. He's so good at making his 1st move, it freezes interior players and he could take advantage of them overplaying him.

Considering Sam could become a starter next season, he's going to have to learn to hit the open man more often than he currently does.

01-28-2012, 08:37 AM
different guys for different games...been like that all year.

01-28-2012, 08:43 AM
I think Pangos is giving the best w can expect for a Freshman. Bell is close to the freshmen ceiling also. Harris has elevated and won't go higher. Sacrae has bad hands and can not go higher. Dower seems to becoming one dimensional and needs a boat load of work in the off season to up his game for next year.

So what is left, yup, its the 3 issue. Carter had a good game the other night, but I'm not holding my breath. Edi is clumsy and not careful with the ball. Those things don't change much at his age. Hart is great on defense and hustle but non existent as a scorer. I have heard he can be a good shooter, he needs to be told to shoot the ball and see if he can deliver. I think he is on a very tight leash. You can't break out if you don't try. I think Keita offers hope, but Few obviously thinks different. To me the biggest potential is Spangler. He is heralded as a good rebounder and scored like mad in high school, yet he has been virtually untested so far. SMC can bring in a no name and turn him into a game changer. I would take Spangler over Waldo every day of the week. If we are looking to change our game and have a different look, I think Spangler is the best shot of making thing different, but he is hurt right now so I don't see things changing soon. I personaly think the conference will be settled by the end of the SMC game so we are at where we are. We can still win it, but it will take everyone giving there all in the next couple of big games.

01-28-2012, 12:53 PM
Even with all the ideas above, I still think that GU is missing a key ingrediant like BZ said.

Its probably the diminishing 3 pt consistency and a couple of other little things.

But, I do not see anything that is more likely than not to appear. IF wee have any chance of winning the conference, it probably has to be through grinding out games, playing incredible defense, getting other teams in foul trouble, hitting FTs and hoping our bigs are just too much to overcome by other teams. If all those come together perfectly, we at least will have a chance, but SMC has shown the ability to overcome all that.

I still think we need something special to arise, and be consistent to take our game to another level. Not very likely.

01-28-2012, 01:24 PM
Nobody has mentioned the coaches. Could they adjust the offensive scheme to take better advantage of what we have? Can they do any thing to change the terrible defense we had against SMC screens? I realize some of these problems are player driven, but not all. Or are the coaches at their ceiling too?

U Zig, I Zag
01-28-2012, 01:43 PM
What's missing is someone at the 3 that can create. Shifting GBJ over works, but that puts Stockton and Pangos as the 1,2 and that won't work against the best competition, IMHO. Stockton should be there to rest Pangos and vice versa.

Edi is doing OK, but he looks lost out there at times. I am a little disappointed in his ability to attack the rim. I was expecting more. His outside stroke is solid though and forcing the D to come out on him opens up the inside.

Moot point, but I wonder if Kyle would have been better contributor this year than MM or Edi.

Either Carter steps up (looking less likely to me) or Edi gets more comfortable with the the flow of the game. We are waiting on one or the other.

01-28-2012, 03:31 PM
great, great offensive coordinator as our head coach. Hey, it's been a good thing right.

So if you need a great D and a good game manager to have the best chance at a run, we might be waiting a while. Whether we have the talent or not.

So I will keep listening to "it's not our birthright" and "we lost(insert graduated senior)so we cannot expect the same results" speeches and try my best to just appreciate what we got......the most talent and an offense "system" that can be great most the time.

I will say this though. This morning on ESPN radio, they brought on Sean Farnham to do a whole segment on West Coast Hoops. No mention. As I said at the beginning of the year, I think we are at an inflection point.....go on a run or at least get some kids drafted. Otherwise we may run the risk of being passed over by even the diamonds in the ruff. And who is going to argue that if Capel and Tubby were doing their job from the beginning we probably would not have Sam and Big Bang Spang right now. Daye came here because he saw what Adam did. He could have left a year earlier. Did we utilize that opportunity? Are niche in Canada may not last forever. The state of WA has been B-ball rich the last 10 years. Did we get our share? Maybe. But if we don't get GBJ to the league how is that gonna look. Play kids in their right position. It's time to grow up.

01-28-2012, 05:17 PM
I really don't think that b/c this team has a "missing" ingrediant fortells the end of high level BB at GU, especially for a team with two top freshman guards who have already guided the team to a point where they have only 3 losses at this point of the season, none of them "bad" lossed.

Some consider the thought of a missing indrediant as far too negative, this outlook goes way beyond reality.