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View Full Version : The way the student body acquires Men's BB tickets (Debate).



ZagFanInNC
01-24-2012, 06:48 PM
As we all know at Gonzaga acquiring Men's BB tickets is pretty tough, for students and fans alike. I graduated last year and am getting my MS in Sport Management right now. Our instructor for my Ticket Sales and Strategy course gave us this discussion question, and of course my answer is after the bolded question.

Let me know what you think, should GU impliment a point system, stay status quo. . . what do you think? There has to be an alternative to sleeping in a tent outside, new ideas never hurt anybody right?

PRIMER:
(To try and boost attendance at other sports Northwestern gives points to students who attend them. Then the students with the most point get first crack at the popular events)


If you were in charge of ticketing at a major University and instructed to develop a priority system for student ticket sales, what criteria do you think would be most valuable in determining how student priority access should be granted? and why? How would you structure this program?

The most valuable factor to determine priority access would be school involvement. I really liked the Northwestern example where student received points for attending other sporting events. This obviously improves the attendance of other events but I think this can be taken to another level.

I would give the students points for attending other sporting activities like Northwestern did with a sliding scale depending on the sport. I would also include points for the amount of credits taken at school, a student’s grade point average, their year attending and their involvement in other school sponsored activities such as young life. This will promote the school events that are not as popular and it will give students a reason to be proactive in them.

Here is an example of how the points system could be weighted.

Grade:

Senior- 10
Junior- 8
Sophomore-6
Freshman- 4


Credits:

1 point per semester credit taken.


Sports Attendance:

Mens Basketball- (-9)
Womens Basketball- 2
Any other sport- 4


Cumulative GPA:

3.8-4.0- 20
3.6-3.79- 15
3.4-59- 10
3.0-3.39- 6
2.5-2.99- 3


Sponsored School Activities:

Any activity- 4

This would be my model for Gonzaga University where tickets to basketball games are extremely hard to come by. The process of getting a ticket is elaborate for the students. It is fun for the alumni to see how serious the students are about basketball but it does nothing to promote other events at the school. The students with the most points would be first in line to get tickets. I have students losing points to go to Men’s Basketball because it will give other students a chance to attend as well. It will also encourage the students to stay involved and try to earn more points.

kclubfounder
01-24-2012, 06:55 PM
I think that is a great system.

I went to GU during a time when the athletic department practically bribed you to go the game so I can't relate very well to today's challenges, but I think your post makes very good sense.

Seatown
01-24-2012, 07:01 PM
I think the current system is fine. At ticket distribution, students only usually have to wait 2-3 hours max to guarantee tickets, even to the biggest games. All the tenting and everything else only determines who gets the best seating, and I think the way twitter is utilized should never be changed, because it's a lot of fun, and still remains fair.

awberke
01-24-2012, 07:52 PM
A 4.0 in the engineering program is much different than a 4.0 in the music program. You would be punishing more difficult majors (they do exist).

I really like points for going to other sporting events, like women's basketball.

willandi
01-24-2012, 08:02 PM
I think there should be max points for non-students, non alumni that are fervent Zag fans. I would love to be in the Kennel, and at 63 can still yell. I might have to be towards the back, in case I need to sit for a few, but that shouldn't be too bad.
Better still. make a list that starts with me!!!!! and go from there.

Actually, I think it is a good idea. Rewarding students for good grades, extra-curriclar activities and support of the other athletic events is nice.
Personally, I have attended many women's soccer matches, 'Head of the river" crew event and a baseball game, just haven't made it to a B'Ball game yet. It will happen, eventually, I'm sure, so GO ZAGS!!!

Vanzagger
01-24-2012, 08:08 PM
but don't over think it. Keep it fun! It's become the best game in town because of the KC.

What do you think has a bigger impact when recruits trip, video of the place about to blow it's lid, or Mark
Few flashing the playbook?

GoGU
01-24-2012, 11:23 PM
Great idea, and clearly well thought out. The only problem I have with it is that I think student attendance would actually drop as a result. While die-hard, bleed-blue Zag fans would make it work, the "socialite" fans would just stop showing up.

Juskickenit2
01-24-2012, 11:27 PM
You want tickets and your ready to get crazy in the kennel. All you have to do is read Ur book waiting in line for two to three hours on a Sunday, probably while watching football on the big screen. The point system is an accountants dream. I would have hated that. And what are you trying to do? Make the girls basketball games a waiting line for men's basketball? Does a student with a 4.0 cheerouder then a 3.0? I believe not. Young life as a point value? Gimme a break.... God wouldn't appreciate that....

Good try. But I don't see that working.

asoc
01-24-2012, 11:45 PM
I would be tempted to make it fairly simple.

Every sporting event attended is worth the same amount.
Or rather, each sport is worth 100 points divided by the number of games eligible for points(home games). So if a sport only plays 10 home games, its worth 10 points a game.

Each credit earned is worth the same amount.

And the same with sponsored school activities.
------------

You could also throw in a weighted measure for each sport. maybe x1.5

For instance, when trying to get men's basketball tickets your men's basketball score is worth more.

When trying to get women's basketball tickets your women's basketball score is worth more.

When trying to watch baseball your baseball score is worth more

etc.

That way people are less likely to be shut out of the sports they really care about. Even if the chances of that happening for the others are slim its still nice to know that you won't be shut out of your favored sport to watch if there is some huge game and all the sudden tons of students decide to jump on the bandwagon for a game.

I think the idea should be to get more people out to the other sporting events rather than trying to create a welfare system for Men's basketball tickets where you are simply trying to spread the wealth.
-----------
Guess I am not making this as simple as I initially planned.
Could also give a bonus for games when students are not in school. Like over the Christmas break. Could think about giving a bonus for "home games" attended at the Spokane Arena or other locations not on campus.

DCZag
01-25-2012, 02:42 AM
You'd have no freshmen at the game - they don't have points yet?

kitzbuel
01-25-2012, 03:04 AM
Points system is not a bad idea. Adding complexity means there has to be a system to manage all the points tracking and has to be constantly updated and becomes more expensive. Probably just sticking with the points for sports and activity attendance is the most feasible option.

zag944
01-25-2012, 08:19 AM
I guess I dont buy into the premise that acquiring tickets is tough. The people who want to go to basketball games stand in line. I never missed a ticket while at Gonzaga. It's an important part of the Gonzaga experience for anyone that wants it.

I wouldve been disgusted if I wasnt in place to get tickets because I was a freshmen engineering student pulling a 3.2. I met a lot of my best friends in those first few freshmen games.

JPtheBeasta
01-25-2012, 09:06 AM
You'd have no freshmen at the game - they don't have points yet?

I thought the same basic thing. Basketball is (I think) a big reason why students choose to come to Gonzaga. If you make it hard for your new customers to see a game you may be shooting yourself in the foot.

I do like the incentive program in general, though, as a way to get better attendance at other events. Maybe not weight things so heavily, or change the incentive a little bit, like make it for access to the best seats, and not seats in general?

KOB&Murph
01-25-2012, 09:10 AM
I think there are a couple fallacies in understanding the 'difficulty' in obtaining student tickets. The Kennel Club has come a very long way in just the last 4-5 years of ticket distributions. There used to be the days where people not only camped for seats, but they also camped an entire week JUST FOR TICKETS (depending on the game of course). This was pre-Twitter, in the days when the order that you received your tickets, could very well determine the order that you sat in the Kennel. (ie: the #1 person in line on Sunday for tickets in Martin immediately RAN to the front doors of McCarthy to save a tent space for him or her and their 6 closest friends.) Changing how the line is managed within Martin and implementing a no camping policy in front of the MAC until 24-48 hours before tip-off, with the help of Twitter to determine the order, has put students back in class rooms during basketball season, kept students healthier with less soar throats on game day by allowing them to sleep in their own beds instead of on the frozen tundra, maintains excitement all week leading up to games, reduces a camping or fan fatigue for our most important league games, and has kept Athletics' phone ringing with calls from other schools wondering how we manage such a great system.

The next misconception is that the student section is a constant sell out (see USF 1/19/12). Indeed there are very few games where all 1200 student tickets are distributed Sunday afternoon. The Michigan State game was arguably the most coveted ticket on our schedule... yet a fistful of student tickets were still available Monday morning... Anyone who hauled their Economics book to the Martin Center for even a 20 minute sit in line on Sunday, received a ticket. I hope this isn't the case when SMC comes to visit, or ever again for that matter.

Finally, there's great leadership in place in Athletics and on the KC Board to address any new problem or hurdle that comes up regarding ticket distribution. KC leadership has evolved from a good ol' boys system (literally no girls were allowed until about three years ago and successors were hand picked based on friendship with the 1%) to a well oiled application system intended to select committed students who want to work for students. The Kennel Club will continue to evolve, line management will only get better, and K2 will always be full of the most dedicated fans in the WCC, the West, and the country.

Less camping, a plentiful amount of tickets, and great leadership means that getting a student ticket to the best show on the west coast has NEVER BEEN EASIER. Gonzaga's system works, and yes, it has room to get even better. However, improvement comes not in a major overhaul, but with thoughtful, intentional tweaks here and there. As in life, half the battle is just showing up, and we need 1200 to do that every night. If we'd like to be mentioned in the same sentence as the Cameron Crazies, the Izzone, or the Orange Crush, we need to be selling out student tickets at EVERY distribution and scaring the pants off EVERY team that dares to steal a glance in the direction of Zombie Nation. In a perfect world, this would happen at every sporting event held on campus. And although my heart is occasionally warmed when I hear about the occasional student who didn't attend GU to watch basketball, we cannot call the Kennel Club the best in the nation, if we're not the best every game.

I have both feet in your camp when we talk about focusing on how to get more students in the volleyball, soccer, and WBB bleachers. However, having MBB tickets as the ultimate incentive will only sour the ###.

My apologies if I strayed from answering your question. If I was in "in charge of ticketing at a major University and instructed to develop a priority system for student ticket sales...." what would I do?
.
.
.
I'd call Gonzaga.

Go Zags.

former1dog
01-25-2012, 09:43 AM
I feel bad for the current students.

When I was a student, I would get to a game literally 5 minutes before tip off, flash my student id (most of the time) and sit anywhere I wanted in the "old" kennel.

McZag
01-25-2012, 10:35 AM
I have always thought that 6000 seats was not enough. They should have built an 8000 seat arena knowing that the increased enrollment was due to the basketball program and that those kids would all want a seat at the games. The intimacy would still be there.

The kids paying the tuition increases need not wait in line, camp out, stand on their head or deal with any other red tape.

The kids have made their committment to Gonzaga. Gonzaga should have made a committment to them.

ZagFanInNC
01-25-2012, 11:06 AM
Points system is not a bad idea. Adding complexity means there has to be a system to manage all the points tracking and has to be constantly updated and becomes more expensive. Probably just sticking with the points for sports and activity attendance is the most feasible option.

At the alternate events at Northwestern a representative has a scanner. They scan the student id card and it would give points to their student account. The system isn't as complex as you might think.

I agree that getting students to other school events is probably the biggest goal of the points system.

To solve the freshman problem the points could just be used to determine the order that the students enter (airline style maybe, group 1-7 or something). Then the incentive will be to have a better seat as opposed to being able to get in.

ZagNut08
01-25-2012, 11:12 AM
Enter door, swipe card, exit door...easy point.

I graduated in 2008, and except for the huge games, there was more often than not tickets left over after the sunday distribution. Waiting to get good seats is a whole other issue. I am glad when I graduated we didn't do the whole tent thing, with maybe the exception of Stanford Game Day and UW...I got front couple rows every game and never had to sleep outside.

I had a friend go to Villanova and said he put his name in for tickets every game and got to go to 2 games his entire 4 years...that would suck.

I wonder how many students who want tickets do not get them on average bc they run out, I would guess the number isn't very high.

DixieZag
01-25-2012, 11:27 AM
I am one of those who would "tweak" the system more than overhaul it. I never had to camp out - 88-92 we walked in 5 minutes and sat in the middle.

I almost relish the idea of camping out with my friends, but being an adult, I don't like the idea of the students having to do so. One never knows what the weather will be like for the "big games" and it could actually become dangerous. The major "tweak" I would use would be to get rid of the tents.

I would not award GPAs. Some majors are less demanding, true, but more b/c a student who studies 30hrs a week and is doing the absolute best of their abilities and is proud of their 3.3 is more deserving than someone who is less committed but just a little more able and on auto-pilot gets a 3.6 where if that person put one quarter of the work the 3.3 student did he/she would have a 3.9 - 4.0 Therefore, I don't like any reward for grades except for those on academic probation or failing.

I like the idea of rewarding ALL campus participation, including all sports, but also theatre, music programs and volunteerism. I agree it would not be as hard as it sounds, scanning can do a lot these days. There should be no delineation between Freshmen and Seniors, they are all Zags.

I realize that I have not really solved the problem of camping that really does concern me but that is one aspect that I think truly needs to go. I would like to hear fair alternatives to camping, while still being fair to the hardest core of fans - the helmet heads and blue men. Its a tough conundrum.

bullzag23
01-25-2012, 12:40 PM
I have always thought that 6000 seats was not enough. They should have built an 8000 seat arena knowing that the increased enrollment was due to the basketball program and that those kids would all want a seat at the games. The intimacy would still be there.

The kids paying the tuition increases need not wait in line, camp out, stand on their head or deal with any other red tape.

The kids have made their committment to Gonzaga. Gonzaga should have made a committment to them.

When the MAC was completed this was debated ad nauseum. The reason they left it at 6k seats was due to the astronomical increase in cost for the extra 2k seats(as in several million $$$s). The costs for those extra seats vastly outweighed the benefits in this instance because those added seats wouldn't provide much additional revenue since all of them would be further away from the court than any current seat.

In any case 6,000 seats are plenty. As we've seen this season the student section doesn't sell out every game, so clearly we have plenty of student seating. The students that truly want to be there on game day will be there on game day.

a13coach
01-25-2012, 01:43 PM
When the MAC was completed this was debated ad nauseum. The reason they left it at 6k seats was due to the astronomical increase in cost for the extra 2k seats(as in several million $$$s). The costs for those extra seats vastly outweighed the benefits in this instance because those added seats wouldn't provide much additional revenue since all of them would be further away from the court than any current seat.

In any case 6,000 seats are plenty. As we've seen this season the student section doesn't sell out every game, so clearly we have plenty of student seating. The students that truly want to be there on game day will be there on game day.

Correct. Here is a blurb (http://www.kxly.com/news/22706876/detail.html) about the increased cost and space required to build it bigger.

"To go from 6,000 to 8,000 at that time was going to be at least 10 million more dollars because the footprint would have had to get much bigger," explains Roth. "The overall size of the building, the number of restrooms, the number of parking places... the whole footprint would have to be much larger."
That $10 million dollars would have been a challenge. Already, the project cost $25 million - and, because Gonzaga is a private school, no state money was available. Then-president Fr. Robert Spitzer also told the athletic department they needed to raise 80% of the funds before breaking ground.

Martin Centre Mad Man
01-25-2012, 01:58 PM
I feel bad for the current students.

When I was a student, I would get to a game literally 5 minutes before tip off, flash my student id (most of the time) and sit anywhere I wanted in the "old" kennel.

Or borrow someone else's student ID to smuggle in friends and family, because the rowing team guys who were "checking" the IDs didn't actually look at the pictures. My very blond brother borrowed an ID from a very African exchange student and was able to wander into the student section without a problem. Those were some fun times.

GoGU
01-25-2012, 02:18 PM
There is something of a system in place to allow students to fill the seats. If not all the student tickets are distributed on Sunday, students can go into the ticket office at McCarthey and get their card swiped on Monday morning. At some point during the week, this extra period closes, and the extras are sold to the Bulldog club. If all 1200 tickets are distributed, they start a waiting list. If a student receives a student ticket and does not attend the game, they must notify the ticket office ahead of time. The ticket office will notify the next student on the waiting list. There is a "three strike" system. The first time they miss a game, they are sent a warning. 2nd offense is a loss of privileges to obtain tickets for the next 2 games. 3rd offense is a season ban. There are a lot of incentives to go to games. If there are empty spaces in the student section, it's because nobody in the Bulldog Club purchased them.

illinigrad08
01-25-2012, 02:28 PM
Hello everyone,

I'd like to start by saying it is probably a bad idea to emulate anything Northwestern does in athletics. They advertise that they are "Chicago's Big Ten Team", yet somehow every time you watch a basketball game on their home court, there sure seems to be a lot of fans from the other team there. I don't think it is unusual for my Illini to have more fans at a game in Evanston than Northwestern does.

I think the system you have come up with is probably too complicated to be practical, and freshman may not get a chance at tickets.

Our system, I believe, is quite unique. Students have to get pledges (based on 3 point shots made) that are to be donated to the Orange Krush charitable organization. Different tiers of amounts get different perks, with the highest tier being at $3 total for each 3 point shot made (which would have been $3 x 232 = $696 last year). The money is then donated to different causes in the area.

If you had seating based on tiers, then things like your major or year in school don't affect your ability to watch great basketball. Not to mention the students that truly want it the most would get more money and have the prime seats. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Krush

Just another way Illinois is better than Northwestern :P Haha.

PS: I like your forum and I read it about once a week at work, I just never post :)

BobZag
01-25-2012, 02:38 PM
I'd keep the tents. I know it gets downright icy cold sometimes, and perhaps some standards could be set to address dangerous weather, but college is about the experience. Duke has KchevskiVille (well, you know, Coach K-Ville) and UNC has their tent city. I'm not sure but I'd bet some Big Ten schools do to for big games, ie, UM-MSU. And it's freezing cold in those states. So I'd keep the tents.

I sit on the mezzanine level and love my seat, so I guess getting a lower rw courtside seat isn't a priority to me. I can better see plays develop and an overall better view, though I realize my voice isn't heard as loudly as those down low.

Zagnut08 brings up a way to cheat the attendance system, so remedying that would be necessary. Perhaps getting their tickets "time stamped" in some way, ie, stamp it pregame, stamp it postgame, say tipoff is 7:00 so game would end at 9:00ish. One ticket per student, that would be enforced.

Other sporting events are a good idea, but be sure no cheating can take place at soccer or baseball or v-ball games...

Also, if there's 1200 seats, put a quota on # of seniors, juniors, sophs, frosh, so the underclassmen don't get shut out.

450 seniors
350 juniors
250 sophs
150 frosh

Something like that.

I go with Dixie on the grade level thing. Hell, I'd a never seen a game! :)

Lots of good ideas on here to draw from.

ZagNut08
01-25-2012, 03:12 PM
Not sure how WCC tourney tickets are distributed now, but when I was it was a comination of grade/games attended. For example, 15 home games, priority was:

Sr 15 Games
Jr 15
So 15
Fr 15
Sr 14
Jr 14
etc etc

A lot of students would get tickets to games they had no intention of attending and would often swipe in and leave to ensure they had priority for tourney games, that was something that needed(needs) to be corrected. Perhaps swiping out as BZ mentioned is a solution. Or just microchip all the students so we can track them at all times, seams easy enough.

CB4
01-25-2012, 05:42 PM
1600 student tickets dumped in a mud puddle in the middle of Foley Field. Go.

bullzag23
01-26-2012, 06:23 AM
1600 student tickets dumped in a mud puddle in the middle of Foley Field. Go.

This. Just imagine the media attention it would garner. Think of the recruiting possibilities!

:lmao:

raise the zag
01-26-2012, 06:30 AM
1600 student tickets dumped in a mud puddle in the middle of Foley Field. Go.

All for it!

Or find the tallest hill on- or off-campus, stick all available student tickets in a large mound of cheese and roll it...first one who captures the rolling cheese gets to 1.) keep it and 2.) distribute all 1200 tickets as they see fit.

kinda like these guys & gals: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOyQBSMeIhM

Zagobserver
01-26-2012, 07:29 AM
LSU does something similar with alumni tickets. When you're s student, you accrue points that can be used to get fball tickets later as an alum. Consequently, they sell out a ton of other sports' games. You also get a modified number of points for going as an alum (not sure the details). I'm fairly certain they don't attache GPA to it.

I'm an ND grad who has to put up with our completely random football ticket lottery now. I've often wished they could not only find a way to reward those of us who actually like the game, but also those that know a bit. I've long been in favor of a test about fball and bball history before giving tickets out :).

DixieZag
01-26-2012, 08:07 AM
Leave it to BZ to solve my tent conundrum. As I said in my comment, a part of me relishes the experience that I never got. But as BZ noted, if there was a forecast of dangerous weather (Wind Chill below 15? or just open to the discretion of President McCulloh or his proxy. He or she could simply walk out and announce that the tents that have been erected are noted w/names and respected would do. If the day the tents went up was forecasted to be a dangerous day or week (very seldom) there could simply be a time to show up somewhere indoors with two hours notice.

kitzbuel
01-26-2012, 08:44 AM
hello everyone,

i'd like to start by saying it is probably a bad idea to emulate anything northwestern does in athletics.

lol

awberke
01-26-2012, 09:26 AM
Hello everyone,

I'd like to start by saying it is probably a bad idea to emulate anything Northwestern does in athletics.

Touche salesman.

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/50275_273661609890_4349486_n.jpg

Colbyspapa
01-26-2012, 09:47 AM
I would not reward grades with priority. Not if we wanted to provide the best home court advantage possible. I think back to the craziest fans in the KC when I was in school.... We were not the most scholastic students at GU, but we were the loudest, loved the team and were willing to drive to Santa Clara for the WCC tournament. (not one dean's list student in the bunch) Strange, most of us are very successful careerwise... but that is a totally different thread.

I like the current system. The diehard fans are in the first few rows because they want it more. Frankly, I don't care if they are seniors or all freshman, those who will be the loudest, nastiest and most creative are who I want the opposing team to hear all game.

Zagdawg
01-26-2012, 09:52 AM
+1 Colbyspapa

We want the loudest/wildest fans in the seats -- I don't care if they get A's or B's and are freshman or seniors.