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Russell Bevan
07-10-2007, 07:11 AM
From Andy Katz:

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=2931302&name=katz_andy

Remember the name Ira Brown. The 6-4 JC transfer out of Phoenix College could be the type of rebounding player Gonzaga has been missing lately. GU point guard Jeremy Pargo is telling folks about Brown's effectiveness around the basket. And Brown could be the type of experienced power player the Zags need to go further in March. Brown is a 25-year old junior who played minor league baseball for three years, including a stint in Spokane.

BobZag
07-10-2007, 08:59 AM
I can't imagine this team being out-rebounded much, if at all--

Ira!
Sacre
Theo
Josh
Will
Kuso
Pendo
Daye

And Pargo, Matt and Micah are all good rebounding guards. I don't foresee a problem in this department. We can return to the lesson we learned against Michigan State in 2001: dominate the boards.

Russell Bevan
07-10-2007, 09:19 AM
Bob,

Let me play the play the devils advocate. Which among them rebounded consistently over the course of a full NCAA season? Only Kuso and his FT shooting is a liability at the end of a game. I am a little concerned.

As a side note, I am not sold on Josh. He is in year four at Gonzaga and has not played a major role except in a couple of high profile games that anyone would have gotten up for. Let him play a solid HALF season then tell me we can count on him. I know this sounds harsh, but if the shoe fits...

Russell

bayzag09
07-10-2007, 09:37 AM
As a side note, I am not sold on Josh. He is in year four at Gonzaga and has not played a major role except in a couple of high profile games that anyone would have gotten up for. Let him play a solid HALF season then tell me we can count on him. I know this sounds harsh, but if the shoe fits...

Russell

Well actually he has completed year 3. And he redshirted one of those years which leaves him as technically a junior when it comes to basketball. Oh and let me get this straight, having 27 and 22 against Pepperdine is a "couple of the high profile games"? Please....not only is it harsh, its dumb

cggonzaga
07-10-2007, 09:39 AM
15.5ppg and 7.7rpg in 26mpg isn't considered solid in your book Russell? He might be going into year four but last year was his first season as a full time starter. I think this all goes back to some of you out there having a problem with the person and not the player. No matter what he does from here on out some of you will not forgive him for his actions. He's a very good player with tons of upside. If he can turn his life around than I wish him the best and will cheer him on throughout the rest of his career.

BobZag
07-10-2007, 09:41 AM
Touche'.

Okay, alow me to rephrase...

The potential is there (toughness from Ira!, Kuso, Pendo and length in the others listed) to be a dominating rebounding squad. :)

kitzbuel
07-10-2007, 09:43 AM
Well actually he has completed year 3. And he redshirted one of those years which leaves him as technically a junior when it comes to basketball. Oh and let me get this straight, having 27 and 22 against Pepperdine is a "couple of the high profile games"? Please....not only is it harsh, its dumb

The point is that even during his redshirt year he was still with the program and should have been learning 'Gonzaga' basketball, learning the system, improving. His not playing the last 1/4 of last season did not help him establish himself as a dominant player. With his athleticism, size and the flashes of intensity we saw vs. UNC, Pepperdine, and a few other games, he should be able to take games over on a consistent basis. That is what he needs to work towards. Consistency is a must at the next level.

cggonzaga
07-10-2007, 09:51 AM
The point is that even during his redshirt year he was still with the program and should have been learning 'Gonzaga' basketball, learning the system, improving. His not playing the last 1/4 of last season did not help him establish himself as a dominant player. With his athleticism, size and the flashes of intensity we saw vs. UNC, Pepperdine, and a few other games, he should be able to take games over on a consistent basis. That is what he needs to work towards. Consistency is a must at the next level.

You think he didn't improve at all during his redshirt season? That's a ridiculous statement. Quite laughable. Everyone needs to work on consistency not just Josh. Yes, Josh can dominate and has. Do you recall the way he was playing before the incident? After being in Mr. Few's doghouse he turned it around quite nicely and was starting to consistently dominate games. And have you watched the NBA lately? Consistency is not a must. Potential and athleticism is!

sonuvazag
07-10-2007, 09:55 AM
I'm calling it right now. Another innocent thread turns into a 40-post Josh debate. j/k

Seriously, this team will be dominant in rebounding against almost anyone.

BobZag
07-10-2007, 10:01 AM
Well actually he has completed year 3. And he redshirted one of those years which leaves him as technically a junior when it comes to basketball. Oh and let me get this straight, having 27 and 22 against Pepperdine is a "couple of the high profile games"? Please....not only is it harsh, its dumb

Not "dumb" at all. Pepp had a bunch of undersized shorties out there clanking one bomb after another. Their shot count had to be abnormally high, and most clanked. Our 25+ turnovers helped them shoot a ton.

Zag509
07-10-2007, 10:11 AM
You think he didn't improve at all during his redshirt season? That's a ridiculous statement. Quite laughable. Everyone needs to work on consistency not just Josh. Yes, Josh can dominate and has.Do you recall the way he was playing before the incident? After being in Mr. Few's doghouse he turned it around quite nicely and was starting to consistently dominate games. And have you watched the NBA lately? Consistency is not a must. Potential and athleticism is!

I remember him throwing down a gawdy 0 at Virgina and then screwing his teammates when they needed him most towards the end of the season.

Josh showed glimpses of just how amazing he can be (@ Pepp, UNC, Stanford) and I fully expect him to dominate this year...but he has a ton yet to prove, and many in Zagville still feel betrayed in a way. With this rather large chip on his shoulders, I think Josh is going to tear it up like no other this year. I got him with 21 and 11.

bayzag09
07-10-2007, 10:48 AM
Not "dumb" at all. Pepp had a bunch of undersized shorties out there clanking one bomb after another. Their shot count had to be abnormally high, and most clanked. Our 25+ turnovers helped them shoot a ton.

Not dumb to his point, but more so that Josh only showed up in "high profile" games. Which a complete fallacy. His point that the only good games he had were against teams that "anyone could get up for". I think duke at MSG was a high profile game, and i guess he didn't get up for it.

eastsideballer
07-10-2007, 11:05 AM
It is well known in the circles that Josh is one of the most conceited and cocky players ever to have grace the hardwood at GU. I am of firm belief that in order to be the type of player that dominates games consistently you need to be of a different mindset. Granted most successful players are confident but Josh has a rep for being just plain self centered. I truly believe that Josh has the tools to be one of the premier players in the country but in order to get to that point he needs to become more team oriented and give 100% of himself to the game every night.

bayzag09
07-10-2007, 11:21 AM
They said all of that about Morrison too, just to let you know

sonuvazag
07-10-2007, 11:30 AM
It is well known in the circles that Josh is one of the most conceited and cocky players ever to have grace the hardwood at GU.
Interesting. I've noticed that most people who claim inside connections say the opposite. They usually say he is misunderstood and more committed to success than we would imagine.

What circles do you mean?

To the original topic, I'm glad to see Pargo speaking up and building excitement about new players like Brown.

kitzbuel
07-10-2007, 12:00 PM
Consistency is not a must. Potential and athleticism is!

Consistency has not been a must in the NBA, but players that are consistent top performers who work at staying there tend to win championships. The Spurs fit that bill well.

brasszag
07-10-2007, 12:56 PM
It is well known in the circles that Josh is one of the most conceited and cocky players ever to have grace the hardwood at GU. I am of firm belief that in order to be the type of player that dominates games consistently you need to be of a different mindset. Granted most successful players are confident but Josh has a rep for being just plain self centered.

Please be more specific - WHO is saying these things?

Few? Pendo? Ira? Or....

cggonzaga
07-10-2007, 01:26 PM
Please be more specific - WHO is saying these things?

Few? Pendo? Ira? Or....

The same self righteous people that have wanted him out of the University since his arrest. The same people that have never done anything wrong in their lives and look disgustingly down on those that have. The same people that don't believe in second chances, escpecially for those of a young age. Josh made a mistake and has paid for it more than anyone here knows. He's trying to turn it around so let him be. Please don't make up things because you heard from a friend who heard from a friend. And for those who think they're in the know, you're not!

bayzag09
07-10-2007, 01:38 PM
The same self righteous people that have wanted him out of the University since his arrest. The same people that have never done anything wrong in their lives and look disgustingly down on those that have. The same people that don't believe in second chances, escpecially for those of a young age. Josh made a mistake and has paid for it more than anyone here knows. He's trying to turn it around so let him be. Please don't make up things because you heard from a friend who heard from a friend. And for those who think they're in the know, you're not!

Amen

TheZagPhish
07-10-2007, 01:38 PM
...I'm glad to see Pargo speaking up and building excitement about new players like Brown.

Exactly. Pargo is an ambassador to the program and is already establishing himself as a leadership presence heading into the year. Pargo doesn't pull punches, at least that I'm aware of. If he's digging Ira today, we're in for a terrific season.

Am I the only one trying to justify a hi-def TV before season start? I have this feeling that this is the time. Well, that's what I'm telling myself.

brasszag
07-10-2007, 01:39 PM
The same self righteous people that have wanted him out of the University since his arrest. The same people that have never done anything wrong in their lives and look disgustingly down on those that have. The same people that don't believe in second chances, escpecially for those of a young age. Josh made a mistake and has paid for it more than anyone here knows. He's trying to turn it around so let him be. Please don't make up things because you heard from a friend who heard from a friend. And for those who think they're in the know, you're not!

Exactly!

Back to the main topic, how cool is it that our "1-star" JuCo guy is getting some mention in the national media - even if it's props from a team-mate.

I can't wait to see what sort of machine this year's team turns into.

brasszag
07-10-2007, 01:40 PM
Am I the only one trying to justify a hi-def TV before season start? I have this feeling that this is the time. Well, that's what I'm telling myself.

I hear you on that... since I'm still on my aging 19" CRT that I won on my high-school's grad night with only co-ax in and mono sound - and that sometimes the image wavers when images change too fast...

sonuvazag
07-10-2007, 01:42 PM
Am I the only one trying to justify a hi-def TV before season start? I have this feeling that this is the time. Well, that's what I'm telling myself.
:lmao:
I am on the same trip.

Larryzag
07-10-2007, 01:56 PM
Don't leave out Downs when talking about rebounds. I thought Downs was an aggressive rebounder and helped make up for the loss of Josh last year. I don't have the stats to back it up, but Down's rebounding sticks out in my mind.

BobZag
07-10-2007, 02:20 PM
What Ira will give this team, and next year's team, is toughness. Yes, he'll have some showtime moments and contribute in statistical ways, but the toughness he'll bring is perhaps most important.

Josh will be fine...and very good.

Zags-Bsee
07-10-2007, 03:57 PM
Don't leave out Downs when talking about rebounds. I thought Downs was an aggressive rebounder and helped make up for the loss of Josh last year. I don't have the stats to back it up, but Down's rebounding sticks out in my mind.

10 Rebounds, 2 of his last 3 games.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=27142

BETTER YET 6 OF OUR 7 TOP REBOUNDERS, http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/teamstats?teamId=2250&sort=avgRebounds

Adding height and leaping ability team wide. Replacing the vertical leap of a phone book (per announcers) with leaping (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N7aVtZb6fo)20 phone books or almost 1 man after blocking a shot to get fast break started.

And I hope I am watching the Zags in Hi-Def as well, cause this dunk in hi-def would have been something to see.

I hope Josh has the insight and drive to consistently play like he did against UNC. It would literally be worth millions of dollars. 8 for 13, 19 points, 8 rebounds and 4 blocked shots.

Russell Bevan
07-10-2007, 05:23 PM
Well actually he has completed year 3. And he redshirted one of those years which leaves him as technically a junior when it comes to basketball. Oh and let me get this straight, having 27 and 22 against Pepperdine is a "couple of the high profile games"? Please....not only is it harsh, its dumb

Dear Bayzag09,

He is only a Jr. in regards to basketball? He spent time with Cory, Blake, Ronny, JP and Kyle as a redshirt. He was coached by the staff and had significant amounts of one on one coaching. He also got to spent the whole year scrimmaging with the team and Adam.

I think most of the old timers consider Pepperdine and Santa Clara our biggest rivals in the WCC. St. Mary's has been a major factor, but only over the past five years, so they have a way to go, so yes I consider Pepperdine an important game.

Let me also say that when you start using words like "dumb", you lower the communities standards, I hope you become more courteous.

All the best,
Russell Bevan '88

MickMick
07-10-2007, 06:18 PM
One more season for Josh. The agents will be in his ear shortly after the basketball season.

Josh be a better pro than Hawes or Hansborough.

Russell Bevan
07-10-2007, 07:53 PM
One more season for Josh. The agents will be in his ear shortly after the basketball season.

Josh be a better pro than Hawes or Hansborough.

Mick,

I agree, he has all the tools. If he gains the maturity and drive he can be a force at any level.

Russell

MickMick
07-10-2007, 08:02 PM
Mick,

I agree, he has all the tools. If he gains the maturity and drive he can be a force at any level.

Russell

Stirring thePot (http://www.ncaabbs.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=240776)Russell?

I never do that :)

bayzag09
07-10-2007, 09:02 PM
Dear Bayzag09,

He is only a Jr. in regards to basketball? He spent time with Cory, Blake, Ronny, JP and Kyle as a redshirt. He was coached by the staff and had significant amounts of one on one coaching. He also got to spent the whole year scrimmaging with the team and Adam.

I think most of the old timers consider Pepperdine and Santa Clara our biggest rivals in the WCC. St. Mary's has been a major factor, but only over the past five years, so they have a way to go, so yes I consider Pepperdine an important game.

Let me also say that when you start using words like "dumb", you lower the communities standards, I hope you become more courteous.

All the best,
Russell Bevan '88

Haha. Look, my point was that you said that Josh only got up for some of the bigger games. If Pepperdine is one of those games then I don't think you can name a game during the whole season that doesn't fit that standard. And yes, in when it comes to basketball he has two whole years left...regardless of who he spent time with, you seem to forget how many games he has actually played in his two years. Peace

BoZarth
07-10-2007, 09:02 PM
Thanks for sticking up for Josh.

I for one appreciate it.

Possibly someday those who sit on their high horses will decide there's no longer a need to sit so high. Time will tell.

Go Zags!!!!

roxdoc
07-10-2007, 09:32 PM
Josh had some good games last year and we must acknowledge that he also had some not so good games. Certainly the latent talent is there. The answer is in Josh's head - will he concentrate this year or will he just try to get buy on his natural abilities? He undoubtedly will be given another chance with the team. Team talent levels are much higher next year. The need for TEAM play is greater. A deep run in the dance is possible. Millions of dollars in future pay are possible. Can Josh mentally handle the challenge? We are all pulling for him. Stay tuned!

Russell Bevan
07-10-2007, 10:22 PM
roxdoc,

You summed up what most of us are thinking perfectly.

My first hope is that Josh has his life heading in the right direction. As a parent he needs to have his priorities in order; his responsibilities to his daughter are, in my opinion, more important than that to anyone including himself. If he is meeting all of his personal obligations and goals then he is ready to be a member of the basketball team.

So when people talk about how he disappeared for this game and came up huge in another, it is all window dressing. I realize that if he makes it to the NBA it could benefit his child, but money is a surprisingly small piece of being a good parent.

All the best,
Russell

sittingon50
07-10-2007, 10:24 PM
Raivio had some not so good games...
Mallon had some not so good games...
Pargo had some not so good games...

Morrison had some not so good games...
Batista had some not so good games...
Turiaf had some not so good games
Stepp had some not so good games...
Dickau had some not so good games...
Calvary had some not so good games...

Stockton had some not so good games...

Oscar Robertson had some not so good games.........................................

Nevtelen
07-10-2007, 10:31 PM
I sense sittingon50 is trying to get a message across... If only I could grasp it... :p

RandomZagFan
07-10-2007, 10:45 PM
Stirring thePot (http://www.ncaabbs.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=240776)Russell?

I never do that :)


:lmao:

Lots of sensitve posters over there. I wonder what's in the water at Birmingham?

Zag79
07-11-2007, 12:40 AM
Raivio had some not so good games...
Mallon had some not so good games...
Pargo had some not so good games...

Morrison had some not so good games...
Batista had some not so good games...
Turiaf had some not so good games
Stepp had some not so good games...
Dickau had some not so good games...
Calvary had some not so good games...

Stockton had some not so good games...

Oscar Robertson had some not so good games.........................................

ding ding ding! we got a winner...i fully agree that most people who try and take a swipe at jhs game are the same people who wanted him out from day 1 after his ordeal. the kid is in class, hitting the books, practicing with the fellas, having a good start to his jr season and will explode this season into an AA calibur player. give it a rest.