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View Full Version : RPI 13 and SOS 11 - Auto Bid?



DixieZag
12-24-2011, 02:10 PM
I am sorry if I am boring people with posting these changing figures but I find it fascinating how it all works. Hawaii had been our only real "bad" win b/c their RPI had been so low, but by beating X and the number of wins that Xavier brought into the game really helped us.

I know it is silly to pay much attention to this now, but it is nice to see our attempt at scheduling a tough OOC schedule being rewarded by the "system" that the committee uses. We will fall simply by playing Portland, but at least we will not fall quite as far, having climbed up to this point.

Another factor that will influence how many auto-bids will be awarded the WCC is that there will not be many (2?) from the Pac 12 and the committee (though they deny it) tends to try to fit in teams from all over. The lost bids to the Pac 12 can add an extra one to the WCC and the MWC or maybe go to LBSU if they don't win their tournament.

BayAreaZag
12-24-2011, 03:33 PM
The Pac-12 shouldn't get more than two bids but you never know with the committee. They may look at their collective resumes and write them off or they may look at past teams like (09-10) Washington who was 24-9 and went to the Sweet Sixteen or (10-11) Arizona who went 27-7 and went all the way to the Elite 8 as examples that they can still do damage.

Either way, if the Zags win the WCC regular season title, they should be among the favorites to get an at large bid.

Rangerzag
12-24-2011, 03:50 PM
"Shouldn't" isn't a very big word with the selection committee. It is more interested in terms like "power conference" and "big money" and "influence."

I have looked at the CBS RPI numbers for weeks now since the season got under way.
What I find most intriguing are the conference strength of schedule ranking numbers and how they are different for the teams in the conference. Those numbers just don't jive in my book. I can see the conference being ranked tougher for the Zags, Gaels and BYU, but how do the Toreros rank like that just now?



By win/loss
Gaels 248..... 11-2 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/MARYCA/st-marys-gaels)
Zags 337...... 9-2 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/GONZAG/gonzaga-bulldogs)
BYU 142....... 10-3 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/BYU/brigham-young-cougars)
Dons 266 .......8-4 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/USF/san-francisco-dons)
Broncos 211... 7-4 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/SNCLRA/santa-clara-broncos)
Waves 114 .... 6-5 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/PEPPER/pepperdine-waves)
LMU 267 ....... 6-6 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/LOYMRY/loyola-marymount-lions)
Toreros 314 ... 5-7 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/SDG/san-diego-toreros)
Pilots 257....... 3-10 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/PORT/portland-pilots)

By SOS
Zags 337 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/GONZAG/gonzaga-bulldogs)
Toreros 314 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/SDG/san-diego-toreros)
LMU 267 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/LOYMRY/loyola-marymount-lions)
Dons 266 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/USF/san-francisco-dons)
Pilots 257 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/PORT/portland-pilots)
Gaels 248 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/MARYCA/st-marys-gaels)
Broncos 211 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/SNCLRA/santa-clara-broncos)
BYU 142 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/BYU/brigham-young-cougars)
Waves 114 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/PEPPER/pepperdine-waves)

BayAreaZag
12-24-2011, 03:59 PM
Exactly, which is why I italicized it. You are right, a huge component is the title of the conference, money, fans traveling, influence, etc. Again, the NCAA can invite a fringe Pac-12 team for example, and the media will not how teams like Washington and Arizona have done the past few years.

I was at the Butler / Stanford game two nights ago, and although the Cardinal have a good record (10-2) they may not win the conference. These are the type of teams that the Zags (and other mid-majors) need to worry about. An 11 loss Stanford could look good to the committee on paper, but well see.


"Shouldn't" isn't a very big word with the selection committee. It is more interested in terms like "power conference" and "big money" and "influence."

I have looked at the CBS RPI numbers for weeks now since the season got under way.
What I find most intriguing are the conference strength of schedule ranking numbers and how they are different for the teams in the conference. Those numbers just don't jive in my book. I can see the conference being ranked tougher for the Zags, Gaels and BYU, but how do the Toreros rank like that just now?



By win/loss
Gaels 248..... 11-2 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/MARYCA/st-marys-gaels)
Zags 337...... 9-2 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/GONZAG/gonzaga-bulldogs)
BYU 142....... 10-3 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/BYU/brigham-young-cougars)
Dons 266 .......8-4 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/USF/san-francisco-dons)
Broncos 211... 7-4 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/SNCLRA/santa-clara-broncos)
Waves 114 .... 6-5 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/PEPPER/pepperdine-waves)
LMU 267 ....... 6-6 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/LOYMRY/loyola-marymount-lions)
Toreros 314 ... 5-7 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/SDG/san-diego-toreros)
Pilots 257....... 3-10 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/PORT/portland-pilots)

By SOS
Zags 337 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/GONZAG/gonzaga-bulldogs)
Toreros 314 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/SDG/san-diego-toreros)
LMU 267 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/LOYMRY/loyola-marymount-lions)
Dons 266 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/USF/san-francisco-dons)
Pilots 257 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/PORT/portland-pilots)
Gaels 248 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/MARYCA/st-marys-gaels)
Broncos 211 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/SNCLRA/santa-clara-broncos)
BYU 142 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/BYU/brigham-young-cougars)
Waves 114 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/PEPPER/pepperdine-waves)

Rangerzag
12-24-2011, 04:06 PM
What I find most intriguing are the conference strength of schedule ranking numbers and how they are different for the teams in the conference. Those numbers just don't jive in my book. I can see the conference being ranked EASIER for the Zags, Gaels and BYU, but how do the Toreros rank like that just now?


I should have written like this.



..

MDABE80
12-24-2011, 04:16 PM
It'll change multiple times when we hit the WCC teams. Always does. Doesn't mean much... we don't have the league to sustain the SOS....or the RPI. Mid Major leagues are frowned upon.

caduceus
12-24-2011, 04:25 PM
"Shouldn't" isn't a very big word with the selection committee. It is more interested in terms like "power conference" and "big money" and "influence."

I have looked at the CBS RPI numbers for weeks now since the season got under way.
What I find most intriguing are the conference strength of schedule ranking numbers and how they are different for the teams in the conference. Those numbers just don't jive in my book. I can see the conference being ranked tougher for the Zags, Gaels and BYU, but how do the Toreros rank like that just now?


I believe these conference SOS ranking numbers are completely meaningless. Note the SOS for all conference games is 0.000 for all the teams. The rank appears to be just a consequence of the programming in the database, I think. Probably something arbitrary -- it's not alphabetical, but probably something along those lines. I wouldn't pay any attention to those until conference games are underway. I'm no expert on this, but I'm pretty sure they don't mean anything.

DixieZag
12-24-2011, 05:06 PM
It'll change multiple times when we hit the WCC teams. Always does. Doesn't mean much... we don't have the league to sustain the SOS....or the RPI. Mid Major leagues are frowned upon.

Fully aware that it will fall, but logic seems to say that it "falls" from a position where it starts and at least it will start out higher than we might well have expected or, quite frankly, deserve.

It is interesting that Butler beat Stanford, they may well do what they did last year and start playing better and better and be well thought of by the end of the year.

I am simply hoping that we don't face a "must win conference tournament" scenario - a win against Xavier will go a long way with respect to that. Plus, no different than any other year, take care of business, finish strong, all that stuff. There IS the additional chance to win (or lose) 2 more "quality" games against BYU this year. I can assure you that their board is aware that they don't have a quality win and don't think that it will be very tough to win games in conference (GU and SMC excepted) - - I still think that they are in for a rude awakening if they think they simply have to show up at all the other venues.

Plus, I will be rooting for SMC Big time in their game against BYU - no reason a stranger should walk in and take the title.

FieldHouseFishHouse
12-24-2011, 05:20 PM
I know it is silly to pay much attention to this now, but it is nice to see our attempt at scheduling a tough OOC schedule being rewarded by the "system" that the committee uses. We will fall simply by playing Portland, but at least we will not fall quite as far, having climbed up to this point.


In general, the higher you are the farther you fall. While that can be true of the RPI itself, it's not really true of the RPI rank (as it's pretty much a bell-curve), which is what everyone pays attention to anyway.
Actually, our drop in RPI can be estimated based on our record and the Pilots record. I work it out to be around -0.0175. Which would drop is 10-12 spots. If we were ranked at #50, beating the Pilots would drop us more like 15 spots, or 20 spots if we started at #100.

BayAreaZag
12-24-2011, 06:22 PM
Speaking of that SMC / BYU tilt, I have tickets for it on the 29th and will be pulling for SMC.

Winning against teams like Xavier go a long way, especially if they can win their conference. Their signature wins are probably Vanderbilt and Purdue, they need this game as much as the Zags do.



Fully aware that it will fall, but logic seems to say that it "falls" from a position where it starts and at least it will start out higher than we might well have expected or, quite frankly, deserve.

It is interesting that Butler beat Stanford, they may well do what they did last year and start playing better and better and be well thought of by the end of the year.

I am simply hoping that we don't face a "must win conference tournament" scenario - a win against Xavier will go a long way with respect to that. Plus, no different than any other year, take care of business, finish strong, all that stuff. There IS the additional chance to win (or lose) 2 more "quality" games against BYU this year. I can assure you that their board is aware that they don't have a quality win and don't think that it will be very tough to win games in conference (GU and SMC excepted) - - I still think that they are in for a rude awakening if they think they simply have to show up at all the other venues.

Plus, I will be rooting for SMC Big time in their game against BYU - no reason a stranger should walk in and take the title.