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maynard g krebs
12-23-2011, 05:57 PM
Woohoo's chart got me thinking about how KP compares to other fr pg's, so I looked at Scout's top 100 recruits. There were 21 pg's. One thing they had in common was that none were named Kevin Pangos. Of that group, 6 can be mentioned in the same sentence with KP so far- averaging dbl fig scoring, playing 25+ min etc.

#8 Marquis Teague, Ky.
11 Myck Kabongo, Tex
19 Tony Wroten UW
22 BJ Young Ark.
61 Chasson Randle Stan.
71 Ryan Boatwright UConn

Randle is playing mostly sg, and from stats it appears Young is too, but anyway, here are some of KP's stat rankings within this group. Most of the other top 21 pg's are not anywhere close to this group.

KP's 14.5 scoring average is third among the above. Top is Wroten 16.0, Young 15.1. KP"s 3.4 assists are fourth (Kabongo 5.6, Teague 4.5). His 1.5 to's are lowest, his 2.3 a/to 2nd. His 84% ft's is first. His .406 3pt% is 4th.

Kabongo, Wroten, and Teague all turn it over quite a bit (2.9 or more, 4+ for Wroten), and are poor ft and 3 pt shooters so far. Boatwright has the best overall stat line, but has only played in 5 games.

Sorry I don't know how to put it all in a chart. But the composite of these guys' stats say he's one of the top 4 offensive fr pg's in the country. BUt Zag fans probably knew that.

caduceus
12-23-2011, 06:42 PM
Thanks for taking the time to look these up. Remarkable stats, particularly the turnovers (wonder how many of these are starting PG's rather than off the bench). Even good frosh have a knack for giving up the rock (e.g., Bouldin. I think Raivio was an exception also).

It's a real testament to Few and Co.'s consistent ability to sniff out good talent and find that diamond in the rough (a la Morrison).

Nice work!

Ekrub
12-23-2011, 07:22 PM
Pangos and Bell Jr. Have both lived up to the hype, which is quite refreshing.

maynard g krebs
12-23-2011, 07:30 PM
All playing starter minutes. Assume all start, though not positive about a couple.

bostonzagfan
12-23-2011, 07:57 PM
good research. confirms what zag fans think - kevin is one of the best freshman in the country!

thespywhozaggedme
12-23-2011, 11:10 PM
Thanks Maynard, good stuff. Next year our starting backcourt will be one of, if not the very best one in the entire nation. Think about that for a sec.

Bogozags
12-24-2011, 07:12 AM
I wonder why Kabongo 5.6 apg and Teague 4.5 apt are higher than KP's apg? Could it be the type of offenses UT and UK are running or that their teammates finish better? I have seen UK play several times and they are just loaded with "thoroughbreds" that overmatch almost all other teams.

I have not seen UT play this season so do not have any ideas on the type of offense they run nor the skill level of Kabongo's teammates. KP has a better a/to ratio, which means he doesn't turn it over as much but then again, we play a lot of half-court offense while UK really an up tempo team, which presents more possessions per game for Teague to hand out assists.

KP is a seasoned international player and is very calm and focused. He makes very few mistakes and those that he does make are "freshman mistakes." I always thought that of the two (Kabongo and KP) I always thought KP would be the better overall player and am really glad KP came to GU...He will be a star and most probably, break all kinds of team records before he leaves.

maynard g krebs
12-24-2011, 10:26 AM
I wonder why Kabongo 5.6 apg and Teague 4.5 apt are higher than KP's apg?

My take is that a guy like Kabongo blows by people off the dribble a lot and dishes to an open big when the big's defender helps to stop penetration. Haven't seen Teague much but guessing he's similar. When a team moves the ball around the perimeter and looks for post entry passes (which often don't count as an assist if the post player dribbles or makes a couple of moves before scoring), assists tend to be more distributed among the roster and maybe lower in total.

A lot of times, players like KP and DS make a pass that leads to the guy they passed to making another pass and getting the assist. Stockton only averaged about 2 apg last year. Assist #s don't tell the whole story about how effective a pg is imo.

Bogozags
12-25-2011, 10:49 AM
My take is that a guy like Kabongo blows by people off the dribble a lot and dishes to an open big when the big's defender helps to stop penetration. Haven't seen Teague much but guessing he's similar. When a team moves the ball around the perimeter and looks for post entry passes (which often don't count as an assist if the post player dribbles or makes a couple of moves before scoring), assists tend to be more distributed among the roster and maybe lower in total.

A lot of times, players like KP and DS make a pass that leads to the guy they passed to making another pass and getting the assist. Stockton only averaged about 2 apg last year. Assist #s don't tell the whole story about how effective a pg is imo.

Yes, I agree with you, if the PG gets by his defensive player and is then picked up by the post's defender, leaving the "five" open for a pass and layup. This does happen frequently and yes, many those two PG's have much success in those scenarios. I also, agree that stats do not project the true value of a PG to a team and DS is a prime example, whose stats were misleading and didn't truly project his value to his team.

I also believe that both of those PGs may have more athletic/talented teammates, that finish better too! I still like having KP more than either of those two PG's, because he plays and thinks like a coaches' son! He is not as athletic as either of those two but he plays so much smarter and that is to me, the telling tale for GU success. Both of those PGs will more than likely get drafted but don't think they will have lengthy careers at the next level, where as KP (the good lord willing and the creek doesn't rise) will get drafted and play a lengthy/successful career in the NBA. I base that on his ability to observe and adjust to his opponents. He is successful now and will only continue to get better each game/year he plays. IMO he will, if he plays four years, own all GU guard records and I look forward to watching him tie/break those records.

titopoet
12-26-2011, 07:10 AM
Maynard,
Great work,

Currently, Kevin is ranking 17 in Rival's Freshman ranking. (http://collegebasketball.rivals.com/viewcbse.asp)

Echoing your work.

roxdoc
12-26-2011, 07:22 AM
Hard to believe that there are 16 uys out there that are doing better than Kevin.

maynard g krebs
12-26-2011, 11:29 AM
Hard to believe that there are 16 uys out there that are doing better than Kevin.

Top 25 are considered 5 star recruits. :)

LynetteG
12-26-2011, 11:42 AM
Maynard,
Great work,

Currently, Kevin is ranking 17 in Rival's Freshman ranking. (http://collegebasketball.rivals.com/viewcbse.asp)

Echoing your work.

SACRE is #7 on the list of centers
HARRIS is #11 on the list of power forwards

ps on the freshman list right above Pangos is Trey Burke, who is at Michigan. Michigan went after Burke once Pangos (a Michigan target) committed to GU. Not too shabby a replacement!

webspinnre
12-26-2011, 09:03 PM
re: Pangos, anyone see the thing on ESPN insider that mentioned him? If so, want to briefly summarize without necessarily quoting?

CDC84
12-27-2011, 08:43 AM
Teague is not that impressive to me. His teammates are, but not him. At least so far. He's a turnover machine, but unlike John Wall, he doesn't do enough other things to make up for his mistakes.

About Kabongo:

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/feed/2011-12/starting-5/story/starting-5-kabongo-putting-himself-in-tough-spot-at-texas



1. Freshman point guard Myck Kabongo, surprising many analysts, has not had much of an impact at Texas. What's going wrong for him?

DeCourcy: I’d disagree with the nature of that question. He has had an impact; it’s just that a lot of it has been negative.

Give Kabongo a pass for this much: He entered a situation where there is an awful lot of pressure to perform because the roster he expected to join disintegrated. Cory Joseph? Tristan Thompson? Gone to the NBA after middling freshman seasons. So Kabongo enters as the one elite talent on the roster, and he is averaging 10 points and 5.6 assists.

He deserves no slack, however, for declining to follow his coach’s orders. Coach Rick Barnes has been spending as much time tutoring Kabongo as any player he has coached, and yet when the Longhorns took the court Wednesday night at North Carolina, Kabongo fouled up the execution of the very first play.

“That’s discipline,” Barnes told reporters after the Horns lost by 19. “Four guys know it. One guy doesn’t.”

Barnes benched Kabongo for most of the second half against Carolina, saying afterward he is going to get players on the floor who want to play.

Kabongo is fast, strong and capable with the basketball. Few point guards can match his physical gifts. All of that is wasted, though, if you’re not running the team the way the coach wants.

JPtheBeasta
12-27-2011, 10:20 AM
So Few isn't the only coach to bench a very skilled and athletic player who won't play within the team concept? Weird.

Bogozags
12-27-2011, 06:36 PM
re: Pangos, anyone see the thing on ESPN insider that mentioned him? If so, want to briefly summarize without necessarily quoting?

It was a brief article and explained his value isn't necessarily his shooting but rather his ability to get to the FT line, where he excells.

webspinnre
12-28-2011, 12:58 PM
It was a brief article and explained his value isn't necessarily his shooting but rather his ability to get to the FT line, where he excells.

Lovely, thanks.