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Baldwinzag
12-22-2011, 08:37 PM
we don't create post-game threads nearly enough -- we have the pre-game predictions, game thread, and various random ones following the game.

Rarely do we have specific threads discussing the game immediately afterwards.

We learned Sacre was playing with a thumb that had been recently reduced via a dislocation in practice. They go hard, eh? Coach Few just said, "He probably shouldn't have played tonight."

Another interesting statistic was both Monninghoff and Spangler logged more minutes than Guy-Landry. Thoughts? Reasons? I saw him have one defensive lapse.

We talked about how well Pangos played in the first half and Dower in the second, which was our ticket tonight, yet our man-to-man defense was scorched on nearly every possession. Air Force shot 53% FG for the game and seemed to break us down whenever they wanted until we switched to a 3-2 Zone 10 mins in the 2nd half, and should have been earlier.

Nice to see the effort pick up considerably down the stretch, which was to be expected playing our 4th game in 7 days and figuring out the Princeton "spread" offense.

DixieZag
12-22-2011, 09:10 PM
I think AFA was just an extremely tough match-up for us tonight. We were pretty dead (exception being Pangos' shooting) and we would have been behind had Pangos not lit it up. AFA is a very disciplined team that is not going to beat itself and - though they were not highly regarded coming in - they were 5-2 so they know how to win and I suspect they are going to win quite a few games in their conference.

The good news is that this team really responded to the challenge, they found themselves down by 4 in the second half, coach changed up the defense and they challenged themselves. I thought they played tough, smart ball for a good stretch and won a game (4 in 7 days!) that last year's team may have lost.

I am so happy with our guard play. We have 3 guys that are just gamers, Bell does so many little things that are not as obvious as Pangos but pop up EVERY game, steals, timely shots, great defense. I think that Harris would have been a much bigger part of the game w/o the bizarre fouls and I like that he seems to have found himself again.

I want to see a little more GLE - he just gets to the ball and has too much upside and I would like to see a little more Spangler, for the same reasons.

We need to beat X - difference between being ranked and not.

btzag
12-22-2011, 09:16 PM
Xavier just got crushed by LBSU....at Xavier. Frease and Tu were playing so not sure what to think. Hope Sacre can sit out the UP game and come back strong for X as Frease is a BIG body.

Oregonzagnut
12-22-2011, 09:20 PM
Xavier just got crushed by LBSU....at Xavier. Frease and Tu were playing so not sure what to think. Hope Sacre can sit out the UP game and come back strong for X as Frease is a BIG body.

The game was in Hawaii, but none the less got their lunch handed to them by Monsons team. The Beach is a great team. Xavier may not even be ranked by the time we play them.

btzag
12-22-2011, 09:23 PM
Ah, thanks Oregon...

Still. LBSU crushed Xavier and Frease and Tu were playing. Don't care where the game is, that team has some issues.

zaguarxj
12-22-2011, 09:25 PM
Pangos' contributions are obvious but I'm loving Gary Bell Jr. He doesn't have the gaudy stats but he's doing so many good things.

Johnnygu
12-22-2011, 09:26 PM
I still don't see why Few feels the need to get every guy minutes, every game. It's like when they try to play every player on the squad for the MLB all star game instead of focusing on winning the game. It doesn't help the team, it hurts it. Yes, all of the players are deserving and talented. Doesn't mean they should play. There is a lot of areas where Mark Few is brilliant, but to me his strategy on rotation is a weakness of his. Keep it to a seven man rotation the zags performance would be that much better.

HillBillyZag
12-22-2011, 09:55 PM
We beat a damn good basketball TEAM tonight, This Zag fan is quite satisfied.

caduceus
12-22-2011, 11:52 PM
This was a good win, and was one of those potential "trap games" coming from an opponent that emphasizes a low possession game and unorthodox (but well refined) play style. I remember a few really frustrating losses against teams like this in the past (Butler, WSU a few years ago). It wasn't pretty, but we took care of the ball, rebounded really well on the offensive end, and we made our FT's.

Pangos played 38 minutes and had another zero turnover game. That's huge (not to mention his 18 points from behind the arc). Our guards in total had 3 TO's.

Sacre was off tonight, but I think he was impeded by the brace on his hand, and probably the finger as well. Get healthy bro! Dower took over in the second half, which also opened up our backcourt guys to get a few open looks. AFA really shut down our interior in the first half, so Dower's no-dribble one handers were a big factor and AFA didn't have an answer.

Four game win streak...feels good, especially for December. The two teams we lost to are now a combined 22-4, and ranked.

Now take care of UP and X!!!

http://i.imgur.com/2Hxrk.gif

ltcpilot
12-23-2011, 07:25 AM
We beat a damn good basketball TEAM tonight, This Zag fan is quite satisfied.


Wow...tough game. Congrats to your team and good luck the rest of the year. Most of you don't realize that Mike Lyons, AF player hurt at the 3min mark, is our leading scorer and the current MWC leading scorer at 18ppg. Wish we could have played you straight up with our whole team. I'm proud of the effort of our guys and I believe we had a few of you squirming in your seats. Hate to see such a disparity in PF's but that's life. Fouls called on us were pretty good calls...PFs not called on the other end...ah...oh well (kinda like coal in our stockings:cheers: )

Pagos had a really good game and we knew we had to pick our poisen either guarding the lane and hoping to get out for the 3's or the opposite. Dower's really made a difference in the second half...these two guys will really help you out down the stretch.

Thanks for letting me stop by and discuss a little on your forum. Take care and Merry Christmas....our team needs to grow up quick without Mike Lyons as we play 1st round at Santa Clara tourney on the 29th and, win that, play Santa Clara the next night.

MickMick
12-23-2011, 08:48 AM
We beat a damn good basketball TEAM tonight, This Zag fan is quite satisfied.

I agree. Air Force is good.

Respect.......

Baldwinzag
12-23-2011, 08:54 AM
I agree. Air Force is good.

Respect.......

And class acts from top to bottom. After Lyons was hurt on a loose ball attempt by Mike Hart, AFU players could have had a vindictive attitude towards him and didn't in the least. Matter of fact, I noticed several Air Force players helping Hart and Pangos up off the floor after a hard plays throughout the game. It was a sight to see -- very nice, respectful kids all 40 minutes. Could you imagine if Hart's hustle play accidentally led to an injury of the other Lyons kid from Xavier? All hell & riots would break loose...

DixieZag
12-23-2011, 08:57 AM
I have been lurking over on the BYU site and they (ok, a couple of writers) were amazed that we "struggled" with AF b/c "they are really not any good this year" and then commented upon how dismal the rest of the conference was last night.

I truly wonder if the actual BYU program will overlook the non GU/SMC games or think of them as "easy" and wander into say - Santa Clara, who beat Villanova and New Mexico and lost to Houston Baptist and think a trip to the Leavy Center will be a practice game, and then be surprised when the gym is full and loud and SCU puts a big effort into it. I will watch, with interest, how BYU handles the "other" WCC games, especially USF and SCU.

I wonder how BYU would have played AF last night if they had played the identical schedule - simply being down at one point and winning by 11 wouldn't be a bad showing.

MickMick
12-23-2011, 09:00 AM
I have been lurking over on the BYU site and they (ok, a couple of writers) were amazed that we "struggled" with AF b/c "they are really not any good this year" and then commented upon how dismal the rest of the conference was last night.

I truly wonder if the actual BYU program will overlook the non GU/SMC games or think of them as "easy" and wander into say - Santa Clara, who beat Villanova and New Mexico and lost to Houston Baptist and think a trip to the Leavy Center will be a practice game, and then be surprised when the gym is full and loud and SCU puts a big effort into it. I will watch, with interest, how BYU handles the "other" WCC games, especially USF and SCU.

I wonder how BYU would have played AF last night if they had played the identical schedule - simply being down at one point and winning by 11 wouldn't be a bad showing.

No worrys.

BYU fans will soon be educated on WCC road games.

bballbeachbum
12-23-2011, 09:07 AM
I still don't see why Few feels the need to get every guy minutes, every game. It's like when they try to play every player on the squad for the MLB all star game instead of focusing on winning the game. It doesn't help the team, it hurts it. Yes, all of the players are deserving and talented. Doesn't mean they should play. There is a lot of areas where Mark Few is brilliant, but to me his strategy on rotation is a weakness of his. Keep it to a seven man rotation the zags performance would be that much better.

While understanding your point, I'll disagree.

Agree that the rotation can be nice when short, but the idea now is to use players and expose them so IF they are needed, like IF a guy gets injured or fuol troubled, others are more ready. And how about helping to keep guys fresh for March by using the depth now, too? Remember Matt in March his senior year, beaten up and worn down...there are other examples of this.

In February and March your take on a shorter rotation makes more sense to me, but ONLY if the depth says not to trust it. If the depth is there, use it! Some teams don't have it, and they will get worn down.

zag67
12-23-2011, 09:27 AM
I also understand Johnny but agree with BBALL. As the season goes on, we need to get players like Pangos more rest. Our bigs are doing it from fouls (2 in the first half) and injuries. Landry did because the NCAA made him. Now the injury to Sacre, should shut him down for a couple of weeks So if we can get Panos and Harris some down time, this will help in tournament time. Come on guys, role up some scores during the first part of league. To me Bell is being brought along slowly and this will really help later on. Remember most of these young players (even though they played AAU) need down time also.

So actually I am hoping that the rotation even gets bigger during most of the league schedule. Then tapers down in tournament time.

BobZag
12-23-2011, 09:27 AM
It was a tricky, complex offense and defense, something Guy may not have been ready for this early vis-a-vis Mathis and Spangler. Anyway, that's my theory.

Liked how Dower came to life in 2nd-half. Noticed how the two frosh guards were carrying the team at the half, something like 20 of the 30-something points.

Watched Sacre in warm-ups and he was shooting the ball crooked and way off target, figured something was amiss. Also watched Spangler during drills and, believe me, Ryan is going to be every bit as good as Dower in his own way when he starts getting more PT. He will be very good.

Sat next to the cutest girl...bought her some Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream...I think that makes us boyfriend/girlfriend...er...uh...nevermind... :D

9-2 ooc with X and Looonnngwood to go.

gamagin
12-23-2011, 09:29 AM
While understanding your point, I'll disagree.

Agree that the rotation can be nice when short, but the idea now is to use players and expose them so IF they are needed, like IF a guy gets injured or fuol troubled, others are more ready. And how about helping to keep guys fresh for March by using the depth now, too? Remember Matt in March his senior year, beaten up and worn down...there are other examples of this.

In February and March your take on a shorter rotation makes more sense to me, but ONLY if the depth says not to trust it. If the depth is there, use it! Some teams don't have it, and they will get worn down.

spot on.

fedwayzag
12-23-2011, 09:38 AM
Bobzag, agree about spangler. I watched him closely during warm ups at the battle in Seattle. He looked very good to me shooting the ball out past the 3 pt line.

Did anyone notice the interaction between dower and harris in the second half. dower was at the line and Harris is saying something to him. Looks like harris is telling him to do something different. Dower reaction is negative, like he is mad at harris. There is a timeout. They again show harris and dower talking before the free throw. this time Dower is shaking his head in agreement. Love the leadership of Harris and Dower willing to admit to a mistake. Says a lot about this team in my opinion.

cjm720
12-23-2011, 09:52 AM
Airforce is experience and disciplined. We knew it wasn't going to be an easy matchup. I was thrilled that we pushed on the gas at the end to extend the lead. We showed a lot of heart. Way to go Dower and Pangos. And kudos for coach going to a zone defense...the game changer IMO.

maynard g krebs
12-23-2011, 09:55 AM
While understanding your point, I'll disagree.

Agree that the rotation can be nice when short, but the idea now is to use players and expose them so IF they are needed, like IF a guy gets injured or fuol troubled, others are more ready. And how about helping to keep guys fresh for March by using the depth now, too? Remember Matt in March his senior year, beaten up and worn down...there are other examples of this.

In February and March your take on a shorter rotation makes more sense to me, but ONLY if the depth says not to trust it. If the depth is there, use it! Some teams don't have it, and they will get worn down.

Great post. I think getting the guys down the bench a few minutes when possible keeps them more mentally/emotionally engaged too. Easy to say that they should be anyway, but it's human nature to be more upbeat when you're part of the action.

aflac4life
12-23-2011, 10:01 AM
Missed the beginning of the game, Did we win the opening tip?

Reborn
12-23-2011, 10:08 AM
I like your idea, Baldwin of having one main thread for post game comments. Good job, and take it upon yourself to start this thread after each game.

I thought Few coached poorly for the majority of the game. He stayed in the man to man defense way too long. Did you hear the cheer from the fans when he switched to the zone. I think it was perhaps the loudest cheer of the night. It was like Few was the last one to realize that Air Force was killing our man to man defense. The zone worked, and maybe one of his brillilnat assistants finally convinced him to switch the defenses. I think that that was one of the keys to victory. If he had switched sooner the Zags would have won by 20+.

The other decision that took him way too long to figure out was how Sacre was killing the team. Not only on offense, but on defense and rebounding as well. He had NO LIVE in him at all, and all I saw him doing was standing around watching guys shoot 3's on him and then driving on him to score on lay-ups. Robert can not defend smaller players. Dower is slowly becoming our best center. Especially when playing teams with smaller players.

I also felt Stockton's man to man defense really hurt the Zags. He was watching his man score one three pointer after another. Maybe he was sagging off to help Rob?

I was completely confused by Few not playing Landry-Edi. I hope Guy is not getting into the doghouse like Arop did, because Arop never got out. I thought Carter got all of Landry's minutes, and imo, Carter continues to hurt the Zags whenever he's in. He just doesn't do anything positive in my opinion, and last night his defense was horrible, and Edi's was NOT. Edi can help the team tremendously, and last night would have been a night to get him some playing time. The Zags needed his defense. I'm feeling that he's in Few's doghouse, and that really concerns me because the Zags are much better with him playing, imo. But I learned that one thing you don't want to do is get into Few's dog house. Landry had better learn that quickly. Oh I also felt the same about Hart. I did not see what he contributed last night at all.

I am so impressed with Pangos. What an awesome game. He was one guy who definitely came to play last night. When everyone else was lifeless out on the court, he was full of life on offense and defense. His defense while in the zone was just incredible. In our zone the toughest place to play is on the wing, which is where Kevin played, and he covered a LOT of ground with just pure hustle. Sam Dower also really hustled and played great defense and was a stud on the boards. I am really, really liking what I'm seeing from Sam in the last three games, and NOT liking what I see from Sacre.

Thank God Elias finally woke up in the second half. He was so confused by Air Forces double teaming. Dang that Air Force plays D. But once Sam came into the game in the second half, Elias, as well as many others, seemed to wake up. I really liked what Fox had to say about how the Zags would need to create their own energy in the Kennel now that the students are gone. Sam was the one, along with Kevin and Gary Bell who did create it.

Yes, it is a great win because for much of the night it looked like Air Force would upset us. I will always look back at this game as a great moment in the season because somehow these guys found a way to win. And as I have said about these guys a few times, I think they are winners and will sometimes find a way to win when I think a few teams in the past couldn't do. And Kevin Pangos is a big part of it. He's a winner, man. He refused to lose last night, as did Sam.

sittingon50
12-23-2011, 10:11 AM
Nope. Though AF coughed it up pretty quick.

aflac4life
12-23-2011, 10:16 AM
Bummer, maybe he has a bad leg and hand?

Reborn
12-23-2011, 10:17 AM
Bummer, maybe he has a bad leg and hand?

He will heal better if he doesn't play for awhile. TheZags have plenty down low in Dower and Spangler. A healthy Spangler is bettter thaa wounded Sacre.

titopoet
12-23-2011, 10:20 AM
Xavier just got crushed by LBSU....at Xavier. Frease and Tu were playing so not sure what to think.

It was actually in Hawaii, part of the diamond classic. They were still missing two other starters and their a major bench player. We learn more as they play Hawaii today with Lyons back in the line up.

Baldwinzag
12-23-2011, 10:24 AM
I was completely confused by Few not playing Landry-Edi. I hope Guy is not getting into the doghouse like Arop did, because Arop never got out. I thought Carter got all of Landry's minutes, and imo, Carter continues to hurt the Zags whenever he's in. He just doesn't do anything positive in my opinion, and last night his defense was horrible, and Edi's was NOT. Edi can help the team tremendously, and last night would have been a night to get him some playing time. The Zags needed his defense. I'm feeling that he's in Few's doghouse, and that really concerns me because the Zags are much better with him playing, imo.


My intent is not to pile on Carter here, yet there is an aspect to his game this season I cannot get over. I gave him the benefit of the doubt 3 wks ago, yet he continues to play out-of-control. How many times have we watched him dribble-drive into the lane with no exit strategy/pass/or shot attempt. He literally continues to drive aggressively and either turns it over, gets bailed out by an official, or commits a charge. Its getting old b/c he's not learning from his mistakes and proceeds to do this every game. It hurts us big time. Notice when Pangos drives he has a lane to score and/or pass to a teammate. He's always looking for 3 options -- 1. lay-up 2. pass to a big or guard along the baseline 3. definitively draw the shooting foul. Carter doesn't even look, puts his head down, flies into the lane, and falls down every time. Its forced. Personally, I have nearly lost all faith b/c he's committing the exact same error every single opportunity he gets to play. MC's minutes to GLE may be more beneficial come March.

+1 on Guy Landry, yet feel Bobzag is right in that the Air Force offensive sets were a bit unfamiliar to him as he was lost on 2 defensive possessions. While it didn't lead to any points, he was causing others to miss their assignments.

I also support a Pangos/Stockton lineup, yet felt we went to this lineup a bit to early in the 2nd half as Stocks was getting smoked at the top of the perimeter, giving up several open looks(albeit misses) and drives into the lane for easy looks.

BobZag
12-23-2011, 10:24 AM
thanks for the ice cream by the way, bob!

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!! :doh:

JPtheBeasta
12-23-2011, 10:27 AM
Reborn, not to be a contrarian but to be more of a grain of salt here, it is probably not fair to throw Few under the bus so quickly re Sacre, Landry and the zone.

Rob, hand or not, was still our anchor on the defensive end going into the game and can still keep guys off the boards with his big body. This didn't pan out so well, but I don't blame Few for trying. Rob didn't play the majority of the second half, if my recollection is right. Dower is notoriously bad on defense and will not surpass a healthy Sacre, IMO.

Board members were talking about Landry's leg wrap last game. Maybe his lack of PT was again injury-related. Hart was flying around and causing havoc per usual and Air Force isn't the most athletic team, so Landry's presence/absence wasn't necessarily a game-changer. Maybe Few wanted to reward the Hoff for his hard work. Who knows.

The zone worked great, and I'm really glad they went to it toward the end, but zones sometimes work best as a change of pace. If we played zone the whole game they probably would have figured it out eventually. I thought the timing of it was perfect and helped GU put the nail in the coffin, but I really thought we had gained the momentum already at that stage of the game.

titopoet
12-23-2011, 10:33 AM
GU struggled for a couple of reasons, 3 game since Sat. Air Force had almost a week to prepare. GU had one day. First time the Young pups played against the Princeton Offense, and caught overplaying, (Pangos and GBJ were dreaming back cuts after the night. ) But all and all a good showing. I saw Few threw in a few more sets. He seem to add more and more set each game.

Also, he sees to favor the 3-2 zone with this group rather that 2-3. Any thoughts about the change. I know 3-2 Match up requires more Basketball IQ to run successfully. I see it as a good sign.

maynard g krebs
12-23-2011, 10:38 AM
Reborn, I like your posts and learn a lot from reading them, but I think you might be reaching with the comments about Landry being in Few's doghouse. Couldn't it just be that he doesn't yet have the game experience to be at peak effectiveness against a smart, disciplined team like AFA?

titopoet
12-23-2011, 01:10 PM
I was completely confused by Few not playing Landry-Edi. I hope Guy is not getting into the doghouse like Arop did, because Arop never got out. I thought Carter got all of Landry's minutes, and imo, Carter continues to hurt the Zags whenever he's in. He just doesn't do anything positive in my opinion, and last night his defense was horrible, and Edi's was NOT. Edi can help the team tremendously, and last night would have been a night to get him some playing time. The Zags needed his defense. I'm feeling that he's in Few's doghouse, and that really concerns me because the Zags are much better with him playing, imo. But I learned that one thing you don't want to do is get into Few's dog house. Landry had better learn that quickly. Oh I also felt the same about Hart. I did not see what he contributed last night at all.


I think Edi is still getting his legs and learning to play at this level, just like any JC transfer. I don't think he suffers from the problems that Arop had. Arop never seem to get that being out of position was unacceptable. I think most board though Few was being tough on Arop because he did not practice well, while the truth was better understood by seeing Meech, Gray, Bouldin, Stockton, Harris, Sacre and almost everyone else always waving Arop to where he was suppose to be. After every time out, there was a player going to Arop to tell him where he needed to be. I remember a couple of times Gray drive turning to dish out, only to have to take a difficult shot, because Arop was not where he was suppose to be. Then Arop apologizing on the way back. That is why Arop was in the doghouse. I see none of this, from Edi. Edi has been a bit too gungho and taken some ill advise shots, but that comes with getting the rust out.

Reborn
12-23-2011, 01:29 PM
Thanks for your insights regarding Landry-Edi. I feel alot better. I really like Landry-Edi for some reason. I just like skill level, and nautral talents/gifts. I don't want him in the doghouse, and Im glad you guys don't think he is. I guess I just got concerned because I don't think he played in the second half and Few used Carter instead. I just continue to understand why Few uses Carter and in this game a lot in my opinion, and in times that he could have given to Edi. Again thanks!!!!

maynard g krebs
12-23-2011, 02:11 PM
Thanks for your insights regarding Landry-Edi. I feel alot better. I really like Landry-Edi for some reason. I just like skill level, and nautral talents/gifts. I don't want him in the doghouse, and Im glad you guys don't think he is. I guess I just got concerned because I don't think he played in the second half and Few used Carter instead. I just continue to understand why Few uses Carter and in this game a lot in my opinion, and in times that he could have given to Edi. Again thanks!!!!

Carter is still, and always will be, a guy who went for 24-6-6 in an NCAA tournament game against a quality opponent that blew out Duke last year. He still has that within him. Getting it back will make this team a lot better. He has played minimal minutes lately, and rightly so. But bench him completely now, and you lose him.

A few games ago, there was all kinds of negative stuff being written about Dower, and not without some justification. Carter is capable of the same kind of turnaround. He's missing his shot now, and has lost confidence in it. Consequently, he's forcing it on drives, trying to make something happen and contribute, and the result isn't good.

I think the coaches will keep trying to get him on track till Feb, and not give up on him unless he's still playing bad then.

Baseline
12-23-2011, 02:13 PM
Air Force is a good team, if they had a real big they would be very tough. Very class act!
I was real glad to see Harris finally figure out the double teams, but having Dower in action helped that tremendously. Dower looked great, just wish he could go right once in a while. The inability to go right will be a big issue at some point.
Wish Spangler would have seen more time as I like what I see. I think the AF office was bothering him too.

VinnyZag
12-23-2011, 07:46 PM
Carter seems to be trying to force everything. He started that way, one would assume because he figured he was the senior in the backcourt and he was supposed to make things happen. He's still doing it, presumably because he's trying to play his way back into the rotation.

He'd get better results playing like he did last year -- letting the game come to him.

I respect him, though. You never see him with his head down on the sideline. He congratulates his teammates, cheers for them. I follow him on Twitter and he's staying positive. He's a good teammate.

Johnnygu
12-24-2011, 10:44 AM
While understanding your point, I'll disagree.

Agree that the rotation can be nice when short, but the idea now is to use players and expose them so IF they are needed, like IF a guy gets injured or fuol troubled, others are more ready. And how about helping to keep guys fresh for March by using the depth now, too? Remember Matt in March his senior year, beaten up and worn down...there are other examples of this.

In February and March your take on a shorter rotation makes more sense to me, but ONLY if the depth says not to trust it. If the depth is there, use it! Some teams don't have it, and they will get worn down.

Ok, well as long as the Zags know who they are come March and are one cohesive unit.

I think Stockton is a good player, but to me he's a poor man's Pangos. He doesn't bring much that Pangos doesn't already bring. I believe Edi and Carter should get Stockton's minutes (Carter's senior season is being wasted to this point). Stockton should be a practice player, helping gonzaga become a better team outside the games. Again, addition by subtraction. I don't think Stockton deserves that, but the success of the team is not about what people deserve, it's about what's best for the team.

Carter's struggles noted by other posts in this thread to me are for one reason-he doesn't get in the game enough.

MickMick
12-24-2011, 11:50 AM
Ok, well as long as the Zags know who they are come March and are one cohesive unit.

I think Stockton is a good player, but to me he's a poor man's Pangos. He doesn't bring much that Pangos doesn't already bring. I believe Edi and Carter should get Stockton's minutes (Carter's senior season is being wasted to this point). Stockton should be a practice player, helping gonzaga become a better team outside the games. Again, addition by subtraction. I don't think Stockton deserves that, but the success of the team is not about what people deserve, it's about what's best for the team.

Carter's struggles noted by other posts in this thread to me are for one reason-he doesn't get in the game enough.

Stockton has played much better than Carter to this point.

zag buddy
12-24-2011, 02:01 PM
He's is leading the team in 3 point percentage. somewhere around 56%.

john montana
12-24-2011, 02:12 PM
More carter and less stockton? Seriously? Wow, you are seeing something I don't. I get the idea of letting carter play through this slump but we still need to win games and it is awfully tough for us to win with the current version of carter on the floor.

Johnnygu
12-25-2011, 09:29 AM
He's is leading the team in 3 point percentage. somewhere around 56%.

He also only usually attempts two threes a game (with the exception of the MSU game-he hit four).


When the Zags have Carter playing at his best he is a better defender and can score in a variety of ways. The zags should be focused on getting him back on track, give him more minutes, let him get in a rhythm. To me, this means Stockton's minutes. Even if Few didn't give Stockton's minutes to Carter, I still think Stockton's minutes would be better invested in Edi.

Would you rather have Carter the way he played in the WCC tourney last year, or Stockton as Stockton has played his entire career? Stockton is capable, but limited. To me, this log jam at point guard is going to be a huge factor in how deep a run Gonzaga will make this year.

If Carter receives the proper minutes, I envision him a consistent 17 ppg guy for the Zags.

JPtheBeasta
12-25-2011, 10:10 AM
The fundamental ideological question is who the onus is on to get Carter better, Few or Carter? This is bigtime D1 athletics, and I am of the opinion that it is Carter's job to get his own head screwed on right. I pull for Carter and he has the talent, but he had the opportunity early in the season and he lost it.

Johnnygu
12-25-2011, 01:47 PM
What a bummer of a thread. If we beat Xavier, then I am going to view Nov-Dec as one of the best ever and we be blessed to have Bell and Pangos!

That is all.

I'm interested in people's opinion about the team, not just just the positive ones. But yours is a good Christmas post.