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View Full Version : Kevin Pangos > Matthew Dellavedova



tobizag
12-22-2011, 08:15 PM
there, i said it. we have the better point guard. can't wait to see kevin against mouthguard.

plus, that kid is soooo ugly.

http://nationalhoopsreport.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/KevinPangosJedConklin.jpg

VS

http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_ncaab_experts__14/ept_sports_ncaab_experts-942055209-1269895547.jpg?ym7Vq5CDQGkebp5D

case closed

surfmonkey89
12-22-2011, 08:35 PM
He's probably not ugly. He just doesn't bathe or shave.

BULLDOG#1
12-22-2011, 08:47 PM
Delly is a pretty damn good player, but I gotta say that Pangos is probably better.

The threes tonight were vital to the win, but how about some of the passes? He only recorded a couple of assists, but would have had a lot more if not for ham-hands and air force fouls...

He's so damn steady on the floor. Nothing seems to shake him. Total confidence in his shot -- even after a couple of misses.

How lucky are we that we've got him and Bell?

LynetteG
12-22-2011, 08:51 PM
Delly played all 40 minutes tonight and only scored 9 points. We will have to watch and learn how Baylor shut him down.

FlyZag
12-22-2011, 08:53 PM
Delly is a VERY good player. Not sure I would say Pangos is better yet.

He is definitely on his way but at this point I'd give the nod to Delly.

Johnnygu
12-22-2011, 08:58 PM
AT THIS POINT, meaning dellavedova as a senior and pangos as a freshmen, the call is an easy one, st mary's point guard is better and means so much more to his team

FlyZag
12-22-2011, 09:06 PM
uhhhhh....pangos is better, and his face doesn't look like an infected foot.

Good point. I change my answer.

btzag
12-22-2011, 09:12 PM
Well Delly is a junior but is definitely a good player.

Pangos is putting up stats on par with Dellevadova's soph year and they are surprisingly even. He is a very active and passionate player and creates many more assists but also many more to's. Their assist to to ratio is very close at roughly 2-1. Delly is bigger by three inches or so and pulls down more boards but the GU system does not require the PG to rebound much at all. Both shoot it well overall but I'm curious to see if Pangos has a big jump his next two years to become lights out from 3. He has the potential.

Should be fun to watch especially because Pangos has a fiery side...

Mantua
12-22-2011, 10:00 PM
AT THIS POINT, meaning dellavedova as a senior and pangos as a freshmen, the call is an easy one, st mary's point guard is better and means so much more to his team


I'm sure they love him, but it's hard to quantify a comparison of what Pangos, and for that matter Pangos, Stocks, and Bell mean to the our team right now. Time doesn't always make the difference. SMC has been guard strong for awhile. Maybe they take that for granted now, whereas maybe the Zags are grateful for this years's guard depth.

UberZagFan
12-22-2011, 10:50 PM
uhhhhh....pangos is better, and his face doesn't look like an infected foot.

ditto

72Prep
12-23-2011, 12:13 AM
Pangos is my fav current Zag because he is tough as nails. Not unlike Della

But some posts on this thread are classless. OMG, his hair, his hygiene. He's Ammo (my all time fav Zag) with less talent. The horror. He doesn't shave for games and wears a mouth guard. What a dumb A$$.

WallaWallaZag
12-23-2011, 04:25 AM
mouthpiece has the size advantage, so it will be interesting to see if it makes a difference in their match up...right now i'd call it about even. that carlino kid from byu is also one to keep an eye on...can see why byu fans were hyping him up endlessly.

Dirt McGirt
12-23-2011, 07:27 AM
I think Pangos is a better natural shooter, but Delly runs a better offense (I've seen three of your games,) is craftier, and at 6'4" can post up and pass over the top. Don't get me wrong, Pangos is great and has a lot of upside, but right now I'd say Delly would start over Pangos if on the same team competing for the same spot. The thing about Delly for me is that he seems to be the exact same player he was as a freshman. I haven't seen a lot of progression between 2 seasons ago and now. He is more of a coach on the court, but that's about it.

And I completely understand the Delly hatred. If he was on any other team than mine I would hate his guts. Same with Samhan. For Gonzaga, that player is Sacre (at least for me.) But guys like that make the rivalry better. When you can say "ahhhh I hate that guy. But he's good. But I hate him."

Dirt McGirt
12-23-2011, 07:38 AM
Dirt, you are my favorite SMC fan.

But you have to admit, Delly is one ugly dood.

I agree he looks like the Geico caveman. Luckily basketball isn't a looks contest. I'm sure you all remember Adam Morrison. He looked like a kid toucher.

primal23
12-23-2011, 07:45 AM
I think Pangos is a better natural shooter, but Delly runs a better offense (I've seen three of your games,) is craftier, and at 6'4" can post up and pass over the top. Don't get me wrong, Pangos is great and has a lot of upside, but right now I'd say Delly would start over Pangos if on the same team competing for the same spot. The thing about Delly for me is that he seems to be the exact same player he was as a freshman. I haven't seen a lot of progression between 2 seasons ago and now. He is more of a coach on the court, but that's about it.

And I completely understand the Delly hatred. If he was on any other team than mine I would hate his guts. Same with Samhan. For Gonzaga, that player is Sacre (at least for me.) But guys like that make the rivalry better. When you can say "ahhhh I hate that guy. But he's good. But I hate him."

Good point, would we dislike him as much if he played for a different team? He would still be ugly, but maybe not feel the dislike.

U Zig, I Zag
12-23-2011, 07:50 AM
They are different players with different styles of play. DellaMcDova is a heck of a player, I would take him. I think when it's all said and done Pangos might be recognized as better player overall, but Delly is no slouch.

3XaZag
12-23-2011, 08:11 AM
I am not sure Della is that ugly....we have just never seen him without that trademark deforming mouthpiece. Let's face it, fresh faced young guards have a problem (any player could have this problem, but especially the smaller guards). They can look like they just got out of eigth grade...and intimidation can be a factor in college hoops. I think Della chooses the ugliest mothpiece on the planet as his way of trying to morp his image into something more intense than what first meets the eye...kind of like getting tatted up.

Thats one thing I like about Pangos and Stocks, they look like they are about to walk your grandmother accross the street, and then they just kill ya. Refreshing these days.

Dirt McGirt
12-23-2011, 08:41 AM
The way to look at it is this: Delly is the Jay-Z of the WCC. Sure he looks like Joe Camel, but he's got Beyonce.

Dirt McGirt
12-23-2011, 08:43 AM
here's Delly in a suit without the mouthguard. I think he really is a shave away from acceptability.

http://image.cdnl3.xosnetwork.com/pics32/800/KU/KUTTNQCRZQWHYXU.20111023235123.jpg

john montana
12-23-2011, 09:05 AM
I won't comment on Delly's looks or mouthpiece, but I can't let the whole Pangos > Delly thing go. One for one, playing for the same spot RIGHT NOW...delly is better. Pangos as a junior vs. Delly as a junior, i'd bet cash money on Pangos for sure. time will tell of course. I love pangos, but delly is tough as nails too.

bballbeachbum
12-23-2011, 09:10 AM
I won't comment on Delly's looks or mouthpiece, but I can't let the whole Pangos > Delly thing go. One for one, playing for the same spot RIGHT NOW...delly is better. Pangos as a junior vs. Delly as a junior, i'd bet cash money on Pangos for sure. time will tell of course. I love pangos, but delly is tough as nails too.

Cannot wait for this matchup. I hope to be in Moraga for it! Steven used to give Delly some problems, I wonder if Edi will get some reps covering him, you know?

zagademic
12-23-2011, 09:15 AM
here's Delly in a suit without the mouthguard. I think he really is a shave away from acceptability.

http://image.cdnl3.xosnetwork.com/pics32/800/KU/KUTTNQCRZQWHYXU.20111023235123.jpg

What he looks like is irrelevant, but in terms of attractiveness, anyone on our team, past or present, is way better looking. Sorry, but that's just true.

sittingon50
12-23-2011, 10:02 AM
Saw the picture of Delly in a suit over on the SMC board some time ago. As someone there pointed out it must have been a pretty new suit 'cause he didn't have time to remove the label from the sleeve. ;)

BTW folks, this isn't a Miss America Pageant. The Zags have had some pretty good player's that definately had a face made for radio.

I would take Delly in a heartbeat.

americasteam
12-23-2011, 10:03 AM
Coach Jim Hayford commented after EWU loss to St Mary's that he thought Dellavedova was playing dirty and that he's such a good player he doesn't need to do that. What do you guys know or have seen about him? Does he play dirty?

JPtheBeasta
12-23-2011, 10:10 AM
This thread has turned into a Joan Rivers E! fashion report. If we are voting for home coming king I would vote Pangos all the way.

There's a reason why everyone here picks on Delly, and it's because he's really good. I have much respect for his game, but the gamesmanship in me wells up whenever he is brought up. I'm not into dudes, so I don't really care what he looks like, just like I didn't really care how incredibly fat Samhan was (I'm a little worried about his cholesterol, though:] ). But it is fun as a fan to turn these guys into villains.

I do think Delladova is better than Pangos right now. I wouldn't trade Pangos for Delly, though, because of Pangos' upside, as he may have only scratched the surface of what he can do here.

JPtheBeasta
12-23-2011, 10:11 AM
Saw the picture of Delly in a suit over on the SMC board some time ago. As someone there pointed out it must have been a pretty new suit 'cause he didn't have time to remove the label from the sleeve. ;)



Too funny, didn't notice that before.

CaliforniaZaggin'
12-23-2011, 10:17 AM
I think it's the mixture of sweat, too baggy jersey & that mouthpiece. It's like a trifecta of ugly.

And circle gets the square.

Dirt McGirt
12-23-2011, 10:45 AM
Coach Jim Hayford commented after EWU loss to St Mary's that he thought Dellavedova was playing dirty and that he's such a good player he doesn't need to do that. What do you guys know or have seen about him? Does he play dirty?

Delly is the king of doing anything to give himself an advantage. If you watch him closely when he doesn't have the ball and on defense, you'll see a lot of jersey pulls and pushes to get himself into a better position. When he has the ball, he finds very clever ways to generate contact. It is definitely dirty, but not dirty like he is trying to hurt someone. Usually you'll see an opposing player get a frustration foul or two towards the end of the game because Delly has been giving him the business all game. That's the main reason I wouldn't like him if he was on any other team. He's just a grimy kind of player. Very cerebral, though.

maynard g krebs
12-23-2011, 10:48 AM
When an internet poster discusses a male college basketball player's looks, I assume that poster falls into one of 3 categories:

1) Teenage girl
2) Sorority sister
3) Cougar

As players, fairly even as of now. But KP will surpass Delly, and soon. And be much better over his career.

U Zig, I Zag
12-23-2011, 10:51 AM
The way to look at it is this: Delly is the Jay-Z of the WCC. Sure he looks like Joe Camel, but he's got Beyonce.

Then who is Kanye?

Dirt McGirt
12-23-2011, 10:58 AM
Then who is Kanye?

That's tough. Who in the league comes off the most conceited, but backs it up? Foster from Santa Clara?

primal23
12-23-2011, 11:01 AM
That's tough. Who in the league comes off the most conceited, but backs it up? Foster from Santa Clara?

Sounds about right

MDABE80
12-23-2011, 11:17 AM
Not just yet. Let's see how they do head to head.

ZagNut08
12-23-2011, 11:23 AM
That's tough. Who in the league comes off the most conceited, but backs it up? Foster from Santa Clara?

Depends, does Foster like fish sticks?

Zaglaw
12-23-2011, 11:29 AM
I think it's the mixture of sweat, too baggy jersey & that mouthpiece.

This brings up a question I've been wanting to ask for a long time: Can St. Mary's not afford new uni's? It seems like all their jerseys are too big. Did they get a deal on off sizes?

Dirt McGirt
12-23-2011, 11:34 AM
This brings up a question I've been wanting to ask for a long time: Can St. Mary's not afford new uni's? It seems like all their jerseys are too big. Did they get a deal on off sizes?

Delly's jersey this year fits better than the nip slip jersey he once wore. I hear that was because he was playing in Australia while the rest of the team was getting measured and they just guessed at his size. I for one am thankful that we don't have to see his puffies any more.

Zag4Hire
12-23-2011, 11:48 AM
Delly is the king of doing anything to give himself an advantage. If you watch him closely when he doesn't have the ball and on defense, you'll see a lot of jersey pulls and pushes to get himself into a better position. When he has the ball, he finds very clever ways to generate contact. It is definitely dirty, but not dirty like he is trying to hurt someone. Usually you'll see an opposing player get a frustration foul or two towards the end of the game because Delly has been giving him the business all game. That's the main reason I wouldn't like him if he was on any other team. He's just a grimy kind of player. Very cerebral, though.

Along with footage of last year's WCC Final, I believe Mr. Dower would disagree with your assertion that Dellavedova intends no malice to his opponent. Also if you don't particularly care for a player on another team doesn't always mean deep down that you would secretly want him on your team. I wouldn't trade any GU guard for Dellavedova and I was definitely more of fan of the gameplay by GU's frontcourt when compared to Samhan. However, I rooted against or didn't particuarly like players like JJ Reddick, Tyler Hansbrough, Derrick Low, or Andy Rautins but I would definitely say that they can play for GU any time. It would be easy to argue that Pangos has considerable upside that would allow him to surpass to Dellavedova but let's just compare apples to apples.

MD VS PANGS Frosh Stats

MPG 36.4 31.5
FG% 39.0 43.7
3PT% 39.8 40.6
FT% 85.0 84.0
REBPG 3.5 2.7
APG 4.5 3.4
TO 2.0 1.5
SPG 1.2 1.0
PPG 12.1 14.5

Looks like the nod goes to Pangs in my book.

Zag4Hire
12-23-2011, 11:49 AM
Depends, does Foster like fish sticks?

+1 Well played sir!

tobizag
12-23-2011, 11:50 AM
fwiw, hollinger on espn runs PER stats for college players...here's the link for the players in the wcc...

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/hollinger/statistics/_/group/29

you'll notice pangos has the 8th highest PER in the league, at 22.52. for reference, in NBA terms that's between (closest guards) deron williams at 21.19 and derrick rose (MVP) at 23.62.

mouthguard is 27th in the wcc, at 16.82, which is 1 spot above none other than david stockton. 16.82 in NBA terms is between (closest guards) kyle lowry at 16.51 and baron davis at 17.05.

now, none of this is to suggest that kevin pangos is as good, or ever will be as good, as deron williams or derrick rose. but it does give you some idea of the difference in caliber of player at the NBA level when comparing player efficiency ratings, against each league's respective competition.


food for thought.

gamagin
12-23-2011, 12:35 PM
Delly is the king of doing anything to give himself an advantage. If you watch him closely when he doesn't have the ball and on defense, you'll see a lot of jersey pulls and pushes to get himself into a better position. When he has the ball, he finds very clever ways to generate contact. It is definitely dirty, but not dirty like he is trying to hurt someone. Usually you'll see an opposing player get a frustration foul or two towards the end of the game because Delly has been giving him the business all game. That's the main reason I wouldn't like him if he was on any other team. He's just a grimy kind of player. Very cerebral, though.

Delli reminds me of a fellow who used to play handball at the old Elks Club. He would wear an ill-fitting, seldom laundered shirt that poked out where it had hung in his locker. He never showered the day of the game. Nor brushed his hair or teeth.

His formerly white (now yellowish) sox clearly had been sweated in, worn, again and again and rested like potato sacks above his battered high-top Chuck Taylor's.

A dirty pair of Elk's Club boxers and a jockstrap that hung down below the shorts and looked more like a sling made out of old oily rags, rounded out the uniform.

He wore ordinary leather work gloves instead of handball gloves, and sported a pair of glasses instead of safety goggles in order to barely meet that rule.

He was rumored to eat beans & onions for breakfast before every tournament so he could "discourage and deny" his opponents breathable air. He would cut loose often, reducing the already smelly, sweaty air, inside the court, to a pungent flavor only he could enjoy.

He usually came in late and warmed up until well after the game should have begun. And when when the game finally began, he would call fouls or shades and begin a running dialogue with you or the score keeper about the rule book and what it says about this and that, but mostly contending he was right and everyone else was wrong.

It was ALL designed to piss off the opponent. And win.

He was a good, not great, handball player and often won anyway at his level. But his extra advantage was to piss off the opponent to the point that it was good from anywhere to 4 to 10 frustration points.

When I watch this young man, that is what he reminds me of. Plus he's a banger.

sittingon50
12-23-2011, 12:44 PM
Someone is going to come along soon & say KP is better than Derrick Rose (& believe it)!

TheGonzagaFactor
12-23-2011, 12:53 PM
The title of this thread is obvious. It's not like Dellavedova sucks or anything, but he was far over hyped in the preseason (CBS had him ranked above Hardaway and Siva, which is a JOKE) and he is not as good as GBJ or Pangos. Just look at his line against Baylor, who is the only legitimate opponent SMC has outside of us and BYU (don't feed me the "Northern Iowa and Denver are good" garbage, they aren't real tests), and Dellavedova sucked. 3-10 shooting in 40 minutes. 1-8 from 3. That's your offense? That's supposed to take over the WCC?

ZagDaddy
12-23-2011, 12:55 PM
With that mouth guard he looks like some 1970's era Soviet Bloc Olympic boxer to me. Like he could be some fighter from Czechoslovakia that Sugar Ray Leonard might have pounded on for 3 rounds but still manages to be scored the winner by the Russian judge...

FieldHouseFishHouse
12-23-2011, 12:58 PM
hilarious story gamagin.

WILLYMCG
12-23-2011, 01:52 PM
For effect and to help SMC with their image - maybe we should present Delly with a non-loaner suit at the Kennel, one with the store tags removed.

maynard g krebs
12-23-2011, 02:17 PM
Can i be the cougar? Please, please, please, puuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhlease?

Sure. As Seinfeld taught us, there's nothing wrong with that. I think Pangos could do better though, based on your picture. You might have a better shot w/ Delly.

Baseline
12-23-2011, 02:30 PM
Delly has a very good game and with his size he can do a few things Pangos can't inside, but I would still pick Pangos over Delly if I was picking.

Is Delly always off balance or does he just look that way.

DixieZag
12-23-2011, 03:08 PM
They are both gamers that get it done in completely different ways. I suspect that both are loved by their teamates and THAT is the real quality that separates the wheat from chaffe.

When I see Delly and his "look" coupled with how much game he has, it only gives me a HINT of how much opponents must have hated Morrison - who not only "looked" the part, he "acted" the part (he would tug, shove, whatever) and - unfortunately, "talk" the part and not always in a simple "gamesmanship way".

What is Mo up to nowadays? Did he get a contract in the league?

Birddog
12-23-2011, 03:09 PM
Gamagin, are you referring to "Twinkletoes Schultz"?

GoZags
12-23-2011, 04:32 PM
I'm just impressed that the guy can play against Baylor and on the same evening belt out a few tunes in the Fox Finale.

http://www.google.com/search?q=x+factor+josh+krajcik+photos&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=NEc&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvnsuo&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=Eyz1TvjlOo-ctwerttjQBg&ved=0CEMQsAQ&biw=1173&bih=561

WallaWallaZag
12-23-2011, 08:52 PM
Delly is the king of doing anything to give himself an advantage. If you watch him closely when he doesn't have the ball and on defense, you'll see a lot of jersey pulls and pushes to get himself into a better position. When he has the ball, he finds very clever ways to generate contact. It is definitely dirty, but not dirty like he is trying to hurt someone. Usually you'll see an opposing player get a frustration foul or two towards the end of the game because Delly has been giving him the business all game. That's the main reason I wouldn't like him if he was on any other team. He's just a grimy kind of player. Very cerebral, though.

this is the reason steven gray gave delly problems...it's not often that delly goes against guys that have a size/athletic advantage and at the same time are willing to play even more physical than him. mouthpiece is used to being the one that frustrates his opponent, not the other way around.