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View Full Version : Find one flaw with next years team



thespywhozaggedme
12-21-2011, 11:31 AM
PG: Pangos, Stockton, Sarbaugh
SG: GBJ, Drangs, Kieta
SF: Guy, Hart, MM
PF: Elias, Spangs
C: Kelly, Sam

Scoring? Check
Rebounding? Check
Depth? Check
3 point shooting? Check
Defense? Check

I honestly can not find one weakness with next years roster, provided it is the same or quite similar to the one above. I think this year we go Sweet 16, possibly EE and next season, we finally breakthrough. The future and present is quite bright.

primal23
12-21-2011, 11:32 AM
Probably wont have Keita or MM, or at least not Keita.

Zag4Hire
12-21-2011, 11:37 AM
3 point defense. Just a hunch.

thespywhozaggedme
12-21-2011, 11:39 AM
Probably wont have Keita or MM, or at least not Keita.

Yeah, I was thinking about that possibility, but with Quise graduating, that opens some minutes for him. I was at the Wake Forest game last year and Kieta had 13 points and was great, still have hope in him. But even if he leaves, next years team will be loaded. Imagine KP and GBJ with one year of seasoning under their respective belts? Dare I say, best backcourt in the country? Yeah, I'm drinking the Kool-Aid. :D

thespywhozaggedme
12-21-2011, 11:40 AM
3 point defense. Just a hunch.

Not with KP, Guy, Hart and GPJ. This isn't those Zags.

Zag4Hire
12-21-2011, 11:40 AM
that's just a cop-out, we always have that as our weakness....

:p

Haha fair enough. Free throw shooting. Of course relatively speaking when compared to some teams.

thespywhozaggedme
12-21-2011, 11:41 AM
Haha fair enough. Free throw shooting.

Nope. That will be great as well.

Zagdawg
12-21-2011, 11:42 AM
I'm thinking that Elias may be leaving if he keeps up at the current level he is playing.

I am a bit worried about rebounding if we lose both Sacre and Elias.

GoZags
12-21-2011, 11:43 AM
All this team would need is one of the Board's many "experts" to take over the helm and the Zags would be set.

jbslicer
12-21-2011, 11:43 AM
No Sacre in the post.

thespywhozaggedme
12-21-2011, 11:44 AM
I'm thinking that Elias may be leaving if he keeps up at the current level he is playing.

I am a bit worried about rebounding if we lose both Sacre and Elias.

Where's he gonna go? He's an NBA tweener, and not projected to be drafted in the first round. Believe it or not, Kelly was statistically the teams best rebounder last season when adjust as rpm.

Zag4Hire
12-21-2011, 11:45 AM
Not with KP, Guy, Hart and GPJ. This isn't those Zags.

You are going against many years of historical evidence. I know GBJ is lock-down but I am not entierly 100% confident in the rest of the team. The defensive scheme plays a huge role as well. Gray was always highly touted on the defensive side and did a great job for the most part. However, he was prone to fouling the shooter and didn't exactly ice some guys who ended up burning Gonzaga.

thespywhozaggedme
12-21-2011, 11:46 AM
No Sacre in the post.

Sam and Kelly will more than make up for that. In fact, I'll wager that Kelly will put up very comparable stats to Robs current ones, and Kelly won't fumble one outta every four passes.

DixieZag
12-21-2011, 11:47 AM
No Rob Sacre.

I think we are going to miss him more than we think. I am just re-watching the game now, in the first half, during the spurt where we got separation, Sacre pulled down 2 big D boards in a row, he scored on the lay-up, he took a great charge (same as a steal) and had a massive blocked shot.

All this occurred while the Zags got the separation that they would maintain all game, AND it all occurred during what we consider Rob's "worst game" of the season.

I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer, but we will miss having the 7 footer with the smile and the game FT shooting, but I agree with your premise, we will be very good next year, how good? Maybe depends upon how Kelly can fill those big shoes and whether Harris stays.

FlyZag
12-21-2011, 11:47 AM
Post Defense.

SWZag
12-21-2011, 11:47 AM
....and what do you think about the starting lineup for the 2016 team?

Sorry to rain on the parade, but I guess I'm living in the here and now with this team! :)

SWZag

Angelo Roncalli
12-21-2011, 11:48 AM
Put me in the camp of those who'd rather focus on the the next game than next year.

Zag4Hire
12-21-2011, 11:49 AM
Sam and Kelly will more than make up for that. In fact, I'll wager that Kelly will put up very comparable stats to Robs current ones, and Kelly won't fumble one outta every four passes.

What would you like to wager sir? Although 'very comparable' is filled with loopholes, how about same or better? Not so much doubting KO but I think you are underselling Sacre's production.

thespywhozaggedme
12-21-2011, 11:51 AM
You are going against many years of historical evidence. I know GBJ is lock-down but I am not entierly 100% confident in the rest of the team. The defensive scheme plays a huge role as well. Gray was always highly touted on the defensive side and did a great job for the most part. However, he was prone to fouling the shooter and didn't exactly ice some guys who ended up burning Gonzaga.

Don't you think it's been much better this year so far?

thespywhozaggedme
12-21-2011, 11:53 AM
Put me in the camp of those who'd rather focus on the the next game than next year.

Yes, because what I write on a message board has major impact on the court. Debbie Downers, the whole lot of you. :p

Zag4Hire
12-21-2011, 11:53 AM
....and what do you think about the starting lineup for the 2016 team?

Hard to say with the tough OOC. A lot more scrutiny on the team now that they won a NCAA championship but I think getting enough shots to go around will be a concern. :o

thespywhozaggedme
12-21-2011, 11:55 AM
What would you like to wager sir? Although 'very comparable' is filled with loopholes, how about same or better? Not so much doubting KO but I think you are underselling Sacre's production.

I love Rob, and do think we will miss his "post presence", but I just think that Kelly, Sam, Elias and Ryan will make up for it.

thespywhozaggedme
12-21-2011, 11:57 AM
What would you like to wager sir? Although 'very comparable' is filled with loopholes, how about same or better? Not so much doubting KO but I think you are underselling Sacre's production.

I think 12/7 is very realistic for Kelly next season.

hooter73
12-21-2011, 11:58 AM
Post is the unknown. Dower's D, Kelly playing Center... just unknown.

Zag4Hire
12-21-2011, 12:01 PM
I love Rob, and do think we will miss his "post presence", but I just think that Kelly, Sam, Elias and Ryan will make up for it.

Those four can't play at the same time and Sacre's whole is not the sum of all those parts. Hard to say with Spangs but he looks like a good one and I could see him making the jump his junior year (I would hope for next year like you though). However the size and frame that Sacre presents vs KO, Harris, and Dower is not comparable. His FT also makes him deadly.

allnet59
12-21-2011, 12:03 PM
I like your thought process but let's get through this season and hope for the best. My thinking is we will lose a player or two to either the nba or jumping ship to another program due to lack of playing time.

Zag4Hire
12-21-2011, 12:04 PM
Don't you think it's been much better this year so far?

Ranked 288 out of 338. Plus we haven't faced a good 3 point shooting team so no.

Baldwinzag
12-21-2011, 12:11 PM
As much pre-season hype E received, combined with him shooting 50% from 3pt this season, his 14 ppg & 8.5 rpg is more than enough for him to still be a Top-20 pick.

If he hears this as well, it may be tough to keep him around another year -- he's the key to this team performing well in March and beating elite teams such as Xavier, BYU, etc.

CaliforniaZaggin'
12-21-2011, 12:15 PM
Post is the unknown. Dower's D, Kelly playing Center... just unknown.

This. We'll have a PF playing center.

Zag4Hire
12-21-2011, 12:16 PM
Nope. That will be great as well.

2010-11 13 of 336 76.2%
2011-12 (so far) 109 70.2%

Hasn't hurt them in the last two games but could have used it against Illinois.

hooter73
12-21-2011, 12:19 PM
This. We'll have a PF playing center.

Which we've seen before in Josh H. and while he was very effective we always wondered what if...

23dpg
12-21-2011, 12:19 PM
Post defense without a doubt.

Rob struggles offensively at times with catching the ball and jumping ability. But defensively he is very good. He blocks shots with timing and length, plus he is a decent two foot jumper, if you know what I mean. And he is strong, very strong.

I like Sam and Kelly, but I don't think either of them are strong enough to play the post against a quality big man.

I hope I'm wrong, or maybe it just won't be that detrimental, but the post D will be my main concern next year.

ZagsAddictionPrescription
12-21-2011, 12:23 PM
Our biggest strength is also one of our biggest weaknesses...

IF we play the IF game... Sacre will be gone, Carter will be gone (defense) and keeping with his current level of play Harris may go to the NBA, while MM and Keita may just leave. While we have a great base, I feel some of our success next year will need to come from another incoming PF freshman...

That area is my only current worry. Otherwise, I am the most excited about Gonzagas potential this year.

ZagsAddictionPrescription
12-21-2011, 12:30 PM
Agreed!

cjm720
12-21-2011, 12:38 PM
Losing Sacre will be huge. A big concern of mine. His FTs, shot-blocking, big big body...there's not a player on our team that will be able to replace all of his attributes. That said, a Harris Dower KO post combo sounds pretty darn good.

04ZagFan
12-21-2011, 12:45 PM
Losing Sacre will be huge. A big concern of mine. His FTs, shot-blocking, big big body...there's not a player on our team that will be able to replace all of his attributes. That said, a Harris Dower KO post combo sounds pretty darn good.

Offensively, Dower will probably be better than Rob... But a HUGE drop off on defense. That's my #1 concern when losing Rob. He's defense is very underrated. Sam really struggles on D. Hope he works on it.

thespywhozaggedme
12-21-2011, 12:52 PM
I don't ever see Kelly being a low post threat.. That's just not who he is.

As for those worried about losing the Mathis'... If they aren't playing, we obviously don't need them. If they want to leave, see ya.

Didn't watch any of the Canadian men's national team games then, huh? Kelly was exclusively used as a center and was fantastic.

jazzdelmar
12-21-2011, 01:00 PM
no one has mentioned dranginis' debut nxt yr. getting him and kelly is equivalent to signing two 4 star players, imo; maybe 4 and a half. i see drangs as that great change of pace at guard as a sub for the two stars to be.

zag67
12-21-2011, 01:34 PM
First I would like to say, I also agree that spending my old brain thinking, must spend most of it on this year. I really have enjoyed watching all of the games and the effort that our team puts out.

But, I do agree with Jazz, both of those players are going to add a big lift onto this team. With Sacre and Carter gone for sure, the big question will be Harris. If he stays we will have a solid set of four players to control the middle. Instant offense - Dower, KO - all around solid 7 ft player, Harris - we all know and Spangler which to me could be the big swinger. When he is in the game, I have been watching and be boxes out and seems to know where the ball is going off of the boards. He also has a nice jump shot from the free throw line.

Drangs is going to give us a 3 pt shooter to merge in with the rest of all of our shooters. Having one year in the system will mean that he knows the system and therefore will be acting more reflexive, right from the start.

kitzbuel
12-21-2011, 01:48 PM
PG: Pangos, Stockton, Sarbaugh
SG: GBJ, Drangs, Kieta
SF: Guy, Hart, MM
PF: Elias, Spangs
C: Kelly, Sam

Scoring? Check
Rebounding? Check
Depth? Check
3 point shooting? Check
Defense? Check

I honestly can not find one weakness with next years roster, provided it is the same or quite similar to the one above. I think this year we go Sweet 16, possibly EE and next season, we finally breakthrough. The future and present is quite bright.

FT shooting. Those of that group that are playing this year are shooting 67%

hooter73
12-21-2011, 02:02 PM
Yikes, didnt even think about KD! Yes he will be a player for sure. All I can hope for is the KO and Dower use every spare minute learning low post/center offense and defense.Dower needs it NOW and KO needs to be able to come out day one and drop jaws at how he has transformed.

zag944
12-21-2011, 02:29 PM
Sacre brings a lot of toughness, attitude, and leadership to this team, and that's in addition to his terrific statistics.

I like Sam and Kelly a lot but they have some big shoes to fill, and not just in the stat columns. Count me among those that dont think itll be all that easy to replace him.

OZZY
12-21-2011, 02:38 PM
From what I hear KO is working very hard on becoming more of a low post threat in Few's system. One of the main reasons he redshirted was to get more time with the coaching staff in this area. Going up against Rob, Sam and Spangler every practice with Coach Daniels in his ear should help, having another year adjusting to his height and body will also.

Spy is correct in that KO has played centre before, and against NBA calibre players (his duel with Villenueva was fan to watch). Kelly won't be Rob, but he will be the KO that can pass out of double teams, pull his man away from the basket allowing for drives by guards and play Hi/lo effectively. His free throw shooting might not be as good as Rob's (remember Rob averaged 63% for his first three years) right now, but I expect him to improve with more p/t and attempts.

Kelly is still quite young, as a big man he will improve as he goes.

One final note, you have all seen him on the sidelines, even redshirting he is still very passionate about the team, and I believe he will do anything he can to help the team get as far as it can. IMHO he will end up being a better 5 than Josh.

Hogan
12-21-2011, 03:06 PM
Ditto Flyzag. Post defense

gamagin
12-21-2011, 03:09 PM
All this team would need is one of the Board's many "experts" to take over the helm and the Zags would be set.

one good night. a jerry-rigged flux capacitor, and it's back to the future.

webspinnre
12-21-2011, 03:25 PM
Find one flaw with next years team

The most glaring flaw I see is that it isn't next year yet.

ZagMan
12-21-2011, 03:30 PM
No Rob Sacre.

I think we are going to miss him more than we think. I am just re-watching the game now, in the first half, during the spurt where we got separation, Sacre pulled down 2 big D boards in a row, he scored on the lay-up, he took a great charge (same as a steal) and had a massive blocked shot.

All this occurred while the Zags got the separation that they would maintain all game, AND it all occurred during what we consider Rob's "worst game" of the season.

I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer, but we will miss having the 7 footer with the smile and the game FT shooting, but I agree with your premise, we will be very good next year, how good? Maybe depends upon how Kelly can fill those big shoes and whether Harris stays.

+1, No Big man in the middle. Sacre will be missed more than you think. He is a solid brick wall down there that other teams double/triple team, freeing up other players. Kelly will be fine, but he just does not have the build and strength of Rob. Neither does Dower.

Malastein
12-21-2011, 04:24 PM
Sam and Kelly will more than make up for that. In fact, I'll wager that Kelly will put up very comparable stats to Robs current ones, and Kelly won't fumble one outta every four passes.

Pretty sure post defense will be dramatically worse without Sacre. None of the other bigs have shown the prowess Sacre has in the post. The other team just play differently when Rob isn't in the game.

OK-ZagFan
12-21-2011, 05:04 PM
While we have a great base, I feel some of our success next year will need to come from another incoming PF freshman...

That area is my only current worry. Otherwise, I am the most excited about Gonzagas potential this year.

You should have Spangler back as a PF

OK-ZagFan
12-21-2011, 05:08 PM
As for those worried about losing the Mathis'... If they aren't playing, we obviously don't need them. If they want to leave, see ya.

Is this the Northwest hospitality towards athletes? Wow

WallaWallaZag
12-21-2011, 06:48 PM
Is this the Northwest hospitality towards athletes? Wow

agreed...not so much the content of 04's post as it contains some truth, but the wording and apparent attitude doesn't represent gonzaga well. also, having very good players to practice against and scout opponents is more valuable than most realize, especially at the d1 level. bell won't go up against many defenders better than keita, even on bcs teams.

Zagdawg
12-21-2011, 06:48 PM
Fortunately we all do not feel that way about our team--we are one family.

He has some time to think about how he views our team--we'll see if it changes any over the next 2 months.

CaliforniaZaggin'
12-21-2011, 06:56 PM
Once a Zag, always a Zag.

OK-ZagFan
12-21-2011, 07:00 PM
agreed...not so much the content of 04's post as it contains some truth, but the wording and apparent attitude doesn't represent gonzaga well. also, having very good players to practice against and scout opponents is more valuable than most realize, especially at the d1 level. bell won't go up against many defenders better than keita, even on bcs teams.

I agree 100%, people do not realize the importance of the people who are on the bench and how much they do contribute. That is the reason they have a team and everyone contributes something. I know here in Oklahoma we hate it when someone transfers because the word gets out and it actually hurts recruiting and it hurts the team. I know I have read about the transfers that Gonzaga has had over the last few years and I would not think a premier program would want to have a reputation of alot of players continuing to leave, in my opinion hurts the program.

webspinnre
12-21-2011, 07:19 PM
The other thing people don't realize (or maybe don't care?) is how many parents, family and friends read this board. I've been contacted by at least one parent after saying something friendly welcoming the student. How we behave here represents the Gonzaga community.

ID ZAGFAN
12-21-2011, 07:30 PM
The other thing people don't realize (or maybe don't care?) is how many parents, family and friends read this board. I've been contacted by at least one parent after saying something friendly welcoming the student. How we behave here represents the Gonzaga community.

When I was talking to Mrs. Olynyk, I asked her if she read the board, and she said no and that this was deliberate, but that one of her daughters read it, and would say "Here's one you might want to read, Mom." but screened other posts out.

So---I am very careful what I say about the players. Of course, I am also a bit of a pollyanna, and don't say negative things very much, if at all. :p

ZaGranny

MDABE80
12-21-2011, 07:31 PM
An athletic big man solidifies FF chances....Something tells me Few's got an eye on someone.

WallaWallaZag
12-21-2011, 10:05 PM
An athletic big man solidifies FF chances....Something tells me Few's got an eye on someone.

we need someone to replace sacre's "intimidation" factor...our defense is noticeably weaker w/o sacre in games this year. with the firepower we should have, we just need someone to be physical, block shots, rebound, and dunk.

GoGU
12-21-2011, 10:34 PM
we need someone to replace sacre's "intimidation" factor...our defense is noticeably weaker w/o sacre in games this year. with the firepower we should have, we just need someone to be physical, block shots, rebound, and dunk.

You are so right about intimidation factor. The first time I ever saw Rob up close was before Kraziness this year. I was in the tunnel helping the band get set up and I turned around a blind corner and almost ran into him. I almost s*** myself. He's just SO BIG. I think his size and energy on the court play a big psychological role in the effectiveness of our defense, not to mention his physical skill.

SWZag
12-22-2011, 01:43 AM
When I was talking to Mrs. Olynyk, I asked her if she read the board, and she said no and that this was deliberate, but that one of her daughters read it, and would say "Here's one you might want to read, Mom." but screened other posts out.

So---I am very careful what I say about the players. Of course, I am also a bit of a pollyanna, and don't say negative things very much, if at all. :p

ZaGranny

Goes back to my motto, "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all." People hide behind the name they've chosen for the board, and it can have a detrimental impact, whether they know it or not.

SWZag

bostonzagfan
12-22-2011, 08:17 AM
a flaw would be no true senior leader. harris might be gone. edie will be a senior, but like with marquise this year, not really a senior leader because of the whole juco thing. rob's leadership is valuable and that is something we will lose next year.

McZag
12-22-2011, 10:04 AM
PG: Pangos, Stockton, Sarbaugh
SG: GBJ, Drangs, Kieta
SF: Guy, Hart, MM
PF: Elias, Spangs
C: Kelly, Sam

Scoring? Check
Rebounding? Check
Depth? Check
3 point shooting? Check
Defense? Check

I honestly can not find one weakness with next years roster, provided it is the same or quite similar to the one above. I think this year we go Sweet 16, possibly EE and next season, we finally breakthrough. The future and present is quite bright.

Leadership.

If Pangos and Stock beome the leaders Stepp and Dickau were together, I agree with the rest of your analysis.

I don't see anyone else outside those two being able to provide the leadership chemistry needed to fully realize the team's potential.