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View Full Version : 3 questions after a GREAT win.



Goshzagit
12-20-2011, 07:13 PM
First and foremost, good win. We needed it. We did it. We made it happen. There were many props to go around and our young guards played really well vs tight defense throughout.

That said, I'm curious...

1. Does Guy Landry play with a limp and why? Is his knee not a 100%? Doesn't look to be, yet still a very good effort tonight.

2. Why no Spangler in the 2nd half when we couldn't rebound anything for a good 12 mins or more? We gave up 10 offensive rebounds in the 2nd half.

3. Sacre with 2 pts. What? He missed several easy lay-ups and seemed to be fading away on all his shots. He chose not to engage on several rebounds as well, especially on defense. Why?

Thanks in advance for your answers. Much needed.

gamagin
12-20-2011, 07:28 PM
on a thigh. I imagine he took a knee shot to it, or somesuch, recently. Haven't noticed it before.

Not sure why spang wasn't in there. I agree we could have used him. And his ability to make layups.

Both RS & EH missed some easy bunnies tonight. RS's guy played a really good game and managed not to get called despite a lot of pushing. Even so, RS should have muscled him much more, imo.

Instead, he tried finesse shots and that game was off a bit, too. It's ok. He maybe needed a night when others carried the load. And they did.

GrizZAG
12-20-2011, 07:29 PM
All good questions....especially # 3.
Seems RS plays better when he is P'd off at somebody (Samhan comes to mind). Where is that animal of late last year?? His hands seemed to have hardened and slowed or something. I hope he shows up as well as MC, we will need them.

Ezag
12-20-2011, 08:01 PM
Sacre seems to have slowed down. He's not aggressive, not getting to the line hardly at all, and getting out muscled by smaller guys. He has also been getting outplayed by opposing big men lately. I never thought that out of the 3 seniors, Hart would have the most solid game against Butler.

zaguarxj
12-20-2011, 08:11 PM
Sacre seems to have slowed down. He's not aggressive, not getting to the line hardly at all, and getting out muscled by smaller guys. He has also been getting outplayed by opposing big men lately. I never thought that out of the 3 seniors, Hart would have the most solid game against Butler.
Maybe opposing coaches are game-planning against Sacre? Even still, he's been a force defensively. I have no problem with Sacre's playing. It's good to have so many weapons that no one player has to carry the load every night.

zag buddy
12-20-2011, 08:17 PM
Mike Hart is a red shirt junior

zagabond
12-20-2011, 08:25 PM
Looked to me like Rob consistently worked hard to get open in the lane. However, not many passes to him. The last three games the TOs have been reduced primarily because fewer lazy passes inside. Speculation on my part but my guess is the coaches told players to be more selective on passes to the bigs down low.

04ZagFan
12-20-2011, 08:27 PM
Looked to me like Rob consistently worked hard to get open in the lane. However, not many passes to him. The last three games the TOs have been reduced primarily because fewer lazy passes inside. Speculation on my part but my guess is the coaches told players to be more selective on passes to the bigs down low.

+1 exactly my thoughts..

And there have been less touches for Rob, but he has some mental blockage going on... Missing some easy shots, and just isn't playing well... Thank God Sam Dower has stepped up.

bigblahla
12-20-2011, 08:35 PM
Maybe opposing coaches are game-planning against Sacre? Even still, he's been a force defensively. I have no problem with Sacre's playing. It's good to have so many weapons that no one player has to carry the load every night.

Stevens specifically tried to take Rob away and was effective at it but in doing so it opened up his defense. Remember the drive KP had down the middle to the hoop and scored it was open because they were keying on Rob.

Stevens has respect for Big Rob and game planned accordingly but he didn't have a chance with both KP and E going off and the team playing good "D" for the whole game with few lapses.

Well balanced offense, good defense now let's be consistent.

Just my opinion.

Go!! Zags!!!

Ezag
12-20-2011, 09:05 PM
Mike Hart is a red shirt junior

My bad.. Even better :)

Nevtelen
12-20-2011, 09:18 PM
RS's guy played a really good game and managed not to get called despite a lot of pushing. Even so, RS should have muscled him much more, imo.

Instead, he tried finesse shots and that game was off a bit, too. It's ok. He maybe needed a night when others carried the load. And they did.

That to me is the key. Recently, Rob has been getting called early for ticky-tack crap (like when his man flopped early on in the game tonight) and unlike last year, he lets it take him out of his game and goes away from his strength, which is... strength. Not sure the BS ticky-tack calls will get better, so I hope Rob gets better at dealing with them.

JPtheBeasta
12-20-2011, 09:34 PM
Rob only had 4 FG attempts this game and 6 against AZ. I had the pleasure of sitting behind the basket at the BIS and he was working very hard for the ball (it was great watching him battle down there, and it gave me a new perspective on the beating he gives and takes). I put the onus on the rest of the team to get him the ball. That said, I like that we have not been so one-dimensional of late and forcing things down low. Rob will be there when we need him.

CDC84
12-20-2011, 09:43 PM
Rob got gassed several times during the second half when the action kept going back and forth with turnovers and missed shots. At one point I thought Few was going to call a TO just to get him a rest. The last two games have featured a lot of crazy guard play...not Rob's kind of game.

The good thing is that Gonzaga's guards are good enough this year to where they can win games like this.

fedwayzag
12-20-2011, 09:50 PM
CDC, i was calling for a timeout when the guys were gassed. Still within striking distance for butler and we could have used a hoop. It all worked out fine. Nice to see we really never gave up the lead and extended late in the game.

I like butler's team. They are going to be really good next year. Hope they make the tournament this year and make some noise again.

willandi
12-21-2011, 06:59 AM
Fourth Question With Butler's best players not seeing action tonight (they graduated last year) does that make this win tainted?














intended as humor...laugh or not, it's up to you

zag67
12-21-2011, 07:08 AM
I think that question #3 has more to do with what the other team will give you or what they plan to take away. In the beginning of the year after Pangos had that great game against WSU, other teams would do everything to make sure he did not get open. In doing so, it left the center area "less cluttered" and Sacre could move around and people could get their passes into him easier. Then after he went off, now teams have decided that they must double and triple him, that leaves it open for someone else. That is the reason that one game it is Gary Bell, the next Harris and then games like last night Harris and Pangos.

That to me is what is so great with this team. There is always someone else stepping up when they take away one option. Now that is not to say we will not have our downers during the year, but when it happens it means that many options did not work. I would also like to say that our defense is probably the best that I have seen in years. The whole team gives 110 percent all the time and I think that they do a great job in understanding their roles.

cjm720
12-21-2011, 07:45 AM
I'll take big games from Pangos and Harris over Sacre any day of the week. Sacre's presence was certainly felt of the defensive end.

Spangs needs more reps, but can't fault coach with the way we've been playing.

hooter73
12-21-2011, 08:17 AM
Hart and Edi taking (and making) shots from the outside should help free up the middle and give Sacre some room to work but until then its double team every time on him.

zagzilla
12-21-2011, 08:24 AM
GLE had a soft brace on his knee Saturday as well and once or twice I thought I saw a slight limp. He looked quick though so hopefully nothing. You know we're not gonna hear anything official about from the team unless he has it amputated.

ZZ

rennis
12-21-2011, 08:45 AM
I'll take big games from Pangos and Harris over Sacre any day of the week. Sacre's presence was certainly felt of the defensive end.


Sacre's presence was on both ends. The attention he draws in the paint is a good reason Pangos and Harris CAN go off from the perimeter and also slash.

Harris is facing the ultimate challenge next year without Big Rob in the middle. Can he score without a dominant post drawing double teams? I sure hope he will.

Reborn
12-21-2011, 09:59 AM
I think that question #3 has more to do with what the other team will give you or what they plan to take away. In the beginning of the year after Pangos had that great game against WSU, other teams would do everything to make sure he did not get open. In doing so, it left the center area "less cluttered" and Sacre could move around and people could get their passes into him easier. Then after he went off, now teams have decided that they must double and triple him, that leaves it open for someone else. That is the reason that one game it is Gary Bell, the next Harris and then games like last night Harris and Pangos.

That to me is what is so great with this team. There is always someone else stepping up when they take away one option. Now that is not to say we will not have our downers during the year, but when it happens it means that many options did not work. I would also like to say that our defense is probably the best that I have seen in years. The whole team gives 110 percent all the time and I think that they do a great job in understanding their roles.

My thoughts too. Good post Zag67!

ZagsAddictionPrescription
12-21-2011, 10:05 AM
Robert Sacre sprained his neck in the Illinois game, same game that Bell hurt his knee. When you sprain you neck, it effects everything you do. His prescence alone creates better match-ups though. It would be concerning if he took huge amounts of shots and was in a slump, but he's not taking them which is why my conclusion is that he is still hurting right now. For evidence, look at his statics from the West Mich, Notre Dame, Illinois game to MSU. His shots cut from 15 down to 6 per game. That is not coincidence. Nor is the significant DECREASE in minutes in those games.

As a result of his neck, he is sort of being used as a decoy. With Robert Sacre in there, he takes up a double coverage and forces the other team to play different then someone like Spangler who can be bodied more easily. Also his height is a huge help along with his presence defensively. Therefore, it was mentioned he is playing finess and I agree because his neck is sprained and it will take sometime to recover.

Hope this helps all who were wondering!

gamagin
12-21-2011, 10:25 AM
Robert Sacre sprained his neck in the Illinois game, same game that Bell hurt his knee. When you sprain you neck, it effects everything you do. His prescence alone creates better match-ups though. It would be concerning if he took huge amounts of shots and was in a slump, but he's not taking them which is why my conclusion is that he is still hurting right now. For evidence, look at his statics from the West Mich, Notre Dame, Illinois game to MSU. His shots cut from 15 down to 6 per game. That is not coincidence. Nor is the significant DECREASE in minutes in those games.

As a result of his neck, he is sort of being used as a decoy. With Robert Sacre in there, he takes up a double coverage and forces the other team to play different then someone like Spangler who can be bodied more easily. Also his height is a huge help along with his presence defensively. Therefore, it was mentioned he is playing finess and I agree because his neck is sprained and it will take sometime to recover.

Hope this helps all who were wondering!

Unless you have some link to your assertion, I assume you are speculating it was RS's sore neck that was the cause of his below average game. I have no knowledge that was the case, nor did I hear anything about this on the pregame or post game analyses from anyone. Do you?

I did look at RS for signs early on and he didn't look like his neck bothered him. Not even during the opening tip off, though Butler got the tip. There were no signs in the game or on the bench that I saw when I checked. And I was looking for a sign out of concern for awhile.

Didn't see anything. Even when he was shooting fade aways, or pushing against a persistent, Butler big (or two) who did a very good job annoying the hell out of him while avoiding clear fouls that were seldom called, unfortunately.

I did see, and it has been noted by others, that he appeared to run out of gas with the pace of this particular game, but the neck never came up, except above, as a cause, or even a possibility. fwiw.

jim77
12-21-2011, 10:36 AM
I think that question #3 has more to do with what the other team will give you or what they plan to take away. In the beginning of the year after Pangos had that great game against WSU, other teams would do everything to make sure he did not get open. In doing so, it left the center area "less cluttered" and Sacre could move around and people could get their passes into him easier. Then after he went off, now teams have decided that they must double and triple him, that leaves it open for someone else. That is the reason that one game it is Gary Bell, the next Harris and then games like last night Harris and Pangos.

That to me is what is so great with this team. There is always someone else stepping up when they take away one option. Now that is not to say we will not have our downers during the year, but when it happens it means that many options did not work. I would also like to say that our defense is probably the best that I have seen in years. The whole team gives 110 percent all the time and I think that they do a great job in understanding their roles.

+++100

The Zags are getting better at being a multi-demensional team. You have to watch us on the inside or we'll kill you....better watch the 3 or we'll kill you...if you key too much on the first 2 scenarios...we'll take it to the hole and score.....Oh, and we'll put a nasty "D" on you too....and have plenty of talented bodies to keep it up on both ends.....this could be a scary team if this keeps up. We are an absolute nightmare to prepare for. Did I mention 2 of our bigs can bomb from 3....YIKES!!!

Don't worry about Rob...Rob does damage and draws attention even f he doesn't score....PRESENCE.

Great game last night...against a very good defensive team.....lets keep it sharp against Air Force. GO ZAGS.

gamagin
12-21-2011, 10:40 AM
I think that question #3 has more to do with what the other team will give you or what they plan to take away. In the beginning of the year after Pangos had that great game against WSU, other teams would do everything to make sure he did not get open. In doing so, it left the center area "less cluttered" and Sacre could move around and people could get their passes into him easier. Then after he went off, now teams have decided that they must double and triple him, that leaves it open for someone else. That is the reason that one game it is Gary Bell, the next Harris and then games like last night Harris and Pangos.

That to me is what is so great with this team. There is always someone else stepping up when they take away one option. Now that is not to say we will not have our downers during the year, but when it happens it means that many options did not work. I would also like to say that our defense is probably the best that I have seen in years. The whole team gives 110 percent all the time and I think that they do a great job in understanding their roles.

well said. we are now a quintuple threat.

zag67
12-21-2011, 11:23 AM
Gamagin, I also agree about the quintriple threat, but I even think it is more.

I think with the bench we have, we also wear them out. We have Pangos in there running their PG on offense and then tight on him on defense. Then we give him a rest and bring in Stockton. We have Hart doing his thing of picking up the garbage around the hoop, playing great defense and then taking the charge. Out he goes and now come Landry with what he will now offer. We have Bell and then in comes Carter. You can say what you want about how his offense is not there yet, but he attacks and attacks on defense. Then you have the bigs doing their thing and are replaced by the "instant" offense of Dower. Lastly after we get some games to give Spangler more experience we will have one more that when he is in there attacks the boards like Casey use to do and has already shown a soft touch from the key.

THE FUN has just begun and win or lose I have to say that they are fun to watch. The defense and how hard ALL of them work is unbelieveable. And many of us have to remember that (just like against us) the staff and the players have a plan and hope that another player does not go off and kill us because of that. But sometimes that will happen (Indiana against Kentucky).

ZagsAddictionPrescription
12-21-2011, 12:01 PM
Like I mentioned before in the majority of my last posting. Just look at his stats. Of course it's not in many reports because if it was then defenses wouldn't deem him as such a large threat. It's a psychological game. And most of the stuff on here is speculation, the stats and his actions lean toward confirming this belief though.

1) Fox Sports With his neck injury 5 paragraphs below Quotes/News ect. http://msn.foxsports.com/collegebasketball/team/gonzaga-bulldogs-basketball/teamreport/71913?q=gonzaga-bulldogs-basketball

2) Vegas people who don't bet without knowing everything. See Zags vrs MSU 2nd one down.
http://www.thespread.com/forum?task=topic&id=79690&p=252427

3) Scroll To Bottom
http://www.thenewstribune.com/2011/12/07/v-printerfriendly/1935485/ucla-star-nelson-in-hot-water.html

gamagin
12-21-2011, 01:49 PM
Like I mentioned before in the majority of my last posting. Just look at his stats. Of course it's not in many reports because if it was then defenses wouldn't deem him as such a large threat. It's a psychological game. And most of the stuff on here is speculation, the stats and his actions lean toward confirming this belief though.

1) Fox Sports With his neck injury 5 paragraphs below Quotes/News ect. http://msn.foxsports.com/collegebasketball/team/gonzaga-bulldogs-basketball/teamreport/71913?q=gonzaga-bulldogs-basketball

2) Vegas people who don't bet without knowing everything. See Zags vrs MSU 2nd one down.
http://www.thespread.com/forum?task=topic&id=79690&p=252427

3) Scroll To Bottom
http://www.thenewstribune.com/2011/12/07/v-printerfriendly/1935485/ucla-star-nelson-in-hot-water.html


I'm going to go ahead and consider your post on this matter pure conjecture. which is altogether okay. It's the conjecture offered as factual that doesn't appear to be backed up by your list. imo.

In #3 for e.g., it says RS tweaked his neck but was back practicing at full speed.