PDA

View Full Version : Nobody plays harder than Butler



BobZag
12-18-2011, 02:42 PM
No Kennel Club, just old farts. No band. And Butler is now believing in themselves after that gutsy comeback vs Purdue. Will the Zags play as hard as Butler? Can the Zags match Butler's energy and tenacity? Butler is the two-time National Championship Runners-Up, so they have a tough mindset that will be difficult to equal. Their bigs are darn good and they have nice guards. And Brad Stephens is a helluva coach.

jazzdelmar
12-18-2011, 02:45 PM
No Kennel Club, just old farts. No band. And Butler is now believing in themselves after that gutsy comeback vs Purdue. Will the Zags play as hard as Butler? Can the Zags match Butler's energy and tenacity? Butler is the two-time National Championship Runners-Up, so they have a tough mindset that will be difficult to equal. Their bigs are darn good and they have nice guards. And Brad Stephens is a helluva coach.

Dook does. Every game, every play. But ur point is well made, Beezer.

DixieZag
12-18-2011, 02:47 PM
I have the utmost respect for Butler and I am sure they will be tough and they could beat us.

However, I like the momentum going into the game - it seems to me like the guys were so happy with finding themselves in Seattle that they would be anxious to get back on the court again ASAP, just about everyone got minutes, just about everyone contributed, they all seem to really support and like each other.

I expect a battle but I also expect the Zags to come out with the same energy that they did against AZ b/c it was so rewarding.

gamagin
12-18-2011, 02:48 PM
No Kennel Club, just old farts. No band. And Butler is now believing in themselves after that gutsy comeback vs Purdue. Will the Zags play as hard as Butler? Can the Zags match Butler's energy and tenacity? Butler is the two-time National Championship Runners-Up, so they have a tough mindset that will be difficult to equal. Their bigs are darn good and they have nice guards. And Brad Stephens is a helluva coach.

And I believe the answer is yes. We can match and exceed Butler's intensity. And beat them in a battle of wills. Teamwork. 40 minutes.

JAGzag
12-18-2011, 02:53 PM
I'll be the Debbie Downer, but I don't think so. For the past few years Butler's had what GU had years ago - the swagger and desire to play the entire game like the last minute. I think we've missed that - just look at how we can't close games.

willandi
12-18-2011, 03:29 PM
I'll be the Debbie Downer, but I don't think so. For the past few years Butler's had what GU had years ago - the swagger and desire to play the entire game like the last minute. I think we've missed that - just look at how we can't close games.

That's true, but they lost their best players from last year. They still have great talent, but not their best. They did beat Purdue, but the Boilermakers missed a whole bunch of shots over the last 5+ minutes.
I know that the zags can go stretches without scoring from the field, but I think our bigs go to the line, our guards do a good job of driving, and I think we're just a little better...maybe just the homecourt points.

Zag365
12-18-2011, 03:51 PM
Will the Zags play as hard as Butler? Can the Zags match Butler's energy and tenacity?

The AZ game proved the Zags are able to play with great energy, tenacity, and physicality. I agree that the real question is "will they." I would be surprised if there was a let down. To my eye, this team has been consistent in playing hard and playing with poise. They have struggled to execute at times, but not for lack of effort. Also, as this season has progressed the coaches are finding out which set of starters is most willing to be aggressive inside and outside on the offensive end and that group has played well the last two games (for example, until MC regains his confidence, he's better coming off the bench). As we saw yesterday, a big key is how much Harris can contribute to the offensive flow when he's active and confident. If he is a threat each time down the court, we cut down on turnovers because don't need to depend as much on trying to get the ball into Rob while he's double- (and triple-) teamed.

BobZag
12-18-2011, 03:56 PM
I plan to be in attendance and will be my loudest for the Zags, but I think Butler will ultimately take down our Zags in a tight, close game.

MDABE80
12-18-2011, 04:15 PM
If we play Butler like we played the first half against Zona...we win. Anything short of that and we don't. Watch the ball zags...no turns, lots of rebounds and the two youngest guards must get better than 15% ( 3-20) from 3. Elias needs to continue his intensity. If he does that, things open up for the rest of the team.

Stache
12-18-2011, 04:17 PM
Doomed!

ZagMan in Philly
12-18-2011, 05:03 PM
I plan to be in attendance and will be my loudest for the Zags, but I think Butler will ultimately take down our Zags in a tight, close game.

Not so fast BZ...I say we will breakout and runaway with this one, even in the quite Kennel. Butler is good, but the Zags will win rather handily, about 10to 15 pts . I just feel we are just too deep for them, and will wear them down.

Worthington
12-18-2011, 05:14 PM
I'm not one to take any team lightly, but we should win this one easily if Butler's play so far this year is any evidence.

btzag
12-18-2011, 05:58 PM
Which team are we talking about? Is it the team that is 308th in FG % hitting on 39% for the year? Is it the team that has lost to Evansville, Valparaiso, Ball State and barely escaped Gardner-Webb? Is it the team that would have to have their frontcourt play the GU's wings (Hart and Edi) to have a fair matchup on the post?

I mean come on people...the psychological games are fun at times but could we have some serious Bball discussion?

Flat out if we lose at home to Butler we just better pack it in and call it a season. I put Butler on par with EWU or Hawaii and they definitely do not have the talent even of a WSU or ND though much better coaching. We have to win this game by 10+ and us fans should expect nothing less.

Therunner
12-18-2011, 06:09 PM
If the KC were in town, we win this game by 15+.

without KC, we win by 10, maybe less.

If Elias' maintains the same intensity, fire, and keeps flying around on defense/offense as he did vs 'Zona it could be blow-out city.

I expect a lower scoring game , yet win going away -- I think Oral Roberts would beat this particular Butler team by double-digits.

Butler is better/more talented than most teams we've played, yet we should win.

Hopefully, the guys are rested and focused following the terrific effort/hustle they displayed against Arizona -- exhaustion is my only concern.

Pangos is going to break-out of his shooting slump this game as well. KP has racked up 15 assists & only 2 TO's the past two outings.

bartruff1
12-18-2011, 06:24 PM
Talk about the team that nearly always comes back...talk about a team that is so well coached they can win butt ugly...talk about a team that plays defense for the whole game ...ect...no doubt they will be in the game. But we win at home...

CaliforniaZaggin'
12-18-2011, 06:33 PM
Butler looked great in the second half against Purdue, but they've had some real stinkers this year. I'll take the better team playing at home.

04ZagFan
12-18-2011, 06:45 PM
Which team are we talking about? Is it the team that is 308th in FG % hitting on 39% for the year? Is it the team that has lost to Evansville, Valparaiso, Ball State and barely escaped Gardner-Webb? Is it the team that would have to have their frontcourt play the GU's wings (Hart and Edi) to have a fair matchup on the post?

I mean come on people...the psychological games are fun at times but could we have some serious Bball discussion?

Flat out if we lose at home to Butler we just better pack it in and call it a season. I put Butler on par with EWU or Hawaii and they definitely do not have the talent even of a WSU or ND though much better coaching. We have to win this game by 10+ and us fans should expect nothing less.

+1

Butler has been amazing the previous 2 years.... But this team isn't. We can hype them up all we want, the 2011-2012 Butler squad is a below average basketball team. I'm sure the future will be bright for them, but as of now, anything less than a 10 point win, and I'd be disappointed.. Especially after what I saw in Seattle on Saturday.

maynard g krebs
12-18-2011, 07:19 PM
Anything can happen on a given day. Ask the Huskies. According to Pomeroy's page ZN showed in another thread, Butler is likely to win at GU one time in 7. If that happens, it sucks, but it's not the end of the season. Just an anomaly. In a 30 game season you'll lose a couple you shouldn't, just based on probability. You go cold, somebody gets hot- stuff happens.

A team with Butler's recent history is always dangerous, because they know how to win and expect to.

HillBillyZag
12-18-2011, 08:17 PM
BZ, what is the problem when us "old farts" who love the Zags and follow them just as closely as most of the "young pups"?, are actually able to get tickets and attend the games in person. For myself, I cheer long and loud either at McCarthey or at home on my couch. Many fans of our generation however,have physical limitations and/or just not inclined to encourage the team in the same manner that we did as immature kids.

Oregonzagnut
12-18-2011, 10:18 PM
I'll be the Debbie Downer, but I don't think so. For the past few years Butler's had what GU had years ago - the swagger and desire to play the entire game like the last minute. I think we've missed that - just look at how we can't close games.

...its just a harsh fact. And I agree with you. But here is an idea.

Something inside our team shuts down when we get 15 points ahead.

We seem to change our game when the team did not build the lead playing that way. Fact is, we get sloppy when we get a big lead. It has been a consistent problem since since the most horrible of all losses ever, to UCLA. How did we blow a 17 point lead with Adam in charge? Well, we should be able to answer that because it still happens regularly and consistently to this day. So much so, that I think we habitually give credit to the opponent when it is us who have a bad habit to break as a program. I can't put my finger on it but I think we lack a form of killer instinct or in game mental discipline to not let having a big lead change how we play. We beat ourselves more often then the other team beats us. I saw sloppy play and mental mistakes instead of Illinois and MSU teams that simply beat us. We lacked something that isn't shown in the stats. We had huge heart, effort, and pride. I was proud of our guys for NEVER QUITTING! But it goes deeper when we are winning. When we have a lead, we change somehow.

I consistently see the same collective mental habits that lost that UCLA game and cost us a Final Four appearance. It happens every time we are ahead by 15 or more points with 12-10 minutes to go. We need to resist the urge to run and gun if that is not how we built the lead. Likewise we need to resist slowing down and managing the clock if we were running the other team off the court. See how many times we have lost big leads over the last 4 years! It is predictable. When we get 15 points ahead we get sloppy or overly conservative. Sometimes even lazy. We give 2-3 steals, we miss a few easy shots, we get a few fouls and they score 6-10 points in the matter of 5 minutes. Then, as a collective team mentality, we find urgency again until we get back into the rhythm that got us the lead in the first place! Its like clockwork.

Here is another idea:

Before, Gonzaga created ROCK STARS. But now we bring in Rock Stars. Has our coaching philosophy changed accordingly. The program at Gonzaga is nothing like it was back in 1999. Why try to make our apples of today taste like the oranges of yesterday. For some reason, the higher overall talent level (on paper) is not translating into more wins or deeper tournament runs. Is our philosophy still that of coaching diamonds in the rough like we had in 1999? Are we maximizing the more cut and polished diamonds we bring in now. I think it comes down to "Ego Management" as a team and strict adherence to game plan regardless of how much of a lead we have. In fact I think we need to start changing our thinking to that of "If we are ahead we need to get even more ahead". No matter what, in every game and to all opponents we need to play to crush and dominate. If we want to have that killer instinct during the tournament when it matters, then we need to practice it during the rest of the season. We need to break the habit of stopping before the game is over regardless of the score. If we win by 40 then fine.

Am I wrong?

primal23
12-19-2011, 07:15 AM
Cant let the record fool you, Butler has come to town knowing they can/will win. We need to prove them wrong!

LongIslandZagFan
12-19-2011, 07:44 AM
It will be a tough game... But don't get all gushy over their win over Purdue. The Boilermakers are NOT a good team. Any team of substance that they have played... They have lost to. Butlers only win that they can hang a hat on... Purdue... Which IMHO isn't saying much. Would never take them lightly. But this ain't last years Butler.

bartruff1
12-19-2011, 08:15 AM
Anything can happen on a given day. Ask the Huskies. According to Pomeroy's page ZN showed in another thread, Butler is likely to win at GU one time in 7. If that happens, it sucks, but it's not the end of the season. Just an anomaly. In a 30 game season you'll lose a couple you shouldn't, just based on probability. You go cold, somebody gets hot- stuff happens.

A team with Butler's recent history is always dangerous, because they know how to win and expect to.....If one or both of the teams are hot from the perimeter...the hot team will win obviously...but IMHO is more likley to be a game in the 60's and ugly..... and Butler has the discipline and determination to persevere and win those kinds of games...they have the coaching and the confidence and character to come back from large deficits. So IMHO, it won't be over till it is over and no lead will be safe. I like ugly games........Ginger, I like nasty girls....

U Zig, I Zag
12-19-2011, 08:34 AM
Students or not, if we don't close this game up halfway through the 2nd half than we are not playing up to our full potential.

3-pt shooting has to get better for the Zags and our FT shooting needs to improve too (this game will be a low-scoring ugly affair).

Baldwinzag
12-19-2011, 09:04 AM
'cept for the Zags tomorrow night. . .

cjm720
12-19-2011, 09:15 AM
Which team are we talking about? Is it the team that is 308th in FG % hitting on 39% for the year? Is it the team that has lost to Evansville, Valparaiso, Ball State and barely escaped Gardner-Webb? Is it the team that would have to have their frontcourt play the GU's wings (Hart and Edi) to have a fair matchup on the post?

I mean come on people...the psychological games are fun at times but could we have some serious Bball discussion?

Flat out if we lose at home to Butler we just better pack it in and call it a season. I put Butler on par with EWU or Hawaii and they definitely do not have the talent even of a WSU or ND though much better coaching. We have to win this game by 10+ and us fans should expect nothing less.

This was one of the more entertaining posts in a while.

cjm720
12-19-2011, 09:18 AM
The Boilermakers are NOT a good team..

You are crazy. Completely disagree. They've had two debacles they should have one. Good coach, great defense and some offense. They play in the tougest league in the country, so the record may not be there but they'll be a dangerous team come March.

primal23
12-19-2011, 09:22 AM
Which team are we talking about? Is it the team that is 308th in FG % hitting on 39% for the year? Is it the team that has lost to Evansville, Valparaiso, Ball State and barely escaped Gardner-Webb? Is it the team that would have to have their frontcourt play the GU's wings (Hart and Edi) to have a fair matchup on the post?

I mean come on people...the psychological games are fun at times but could we have some serious Bball discussion?

Flat out if we lose at home to Butler we just better pack it in and call it a season. I put Butler on par with EWU or Hawaii and they definitely do not have the talent even of a WSU or ND though much better coaching. We have to win this game by 10+ and us fans should expect nothing less.

Butler is way better then those two teams. Brad Stevens is one hell of a coach. Are they down this year? Yeah but I could see GU lose this game if they don't bring the intensity, and without the students there stranger things have happened ala Portland St

Baldwinzag
12-19-2011, 09:25 AM
You are crazy. Completely disagree. They've had two debacles they should have one. Good coach, great defense and some offense. They play in the tougest league in the country, so the record may not be there but they'll be a dangerous team come March.

Tough to gauge, but I agree they look pretty solid in stretches. You're right, they should have won, but didn't.

Robbie Hummel is trying his best to put the team on his back, yet averaging over 15 shots per game to score 18 ppg, & just 40% FG. His "leadership" on the court is actually hurting them, imo. Seems to be forcing everything, especially vs good teams. They are much better team when they move the ball and allow their smart guards to create more.

Still can't believe they blew a 19 pt lead vs Xavier & 15 pt lead to Butler in consecutive weeks. Those type of losses can be difficult to bounce back from...they're a middle of the pack Big 10 team this year.

LongIslandZagFan
12-19-2011, 10:45 AM
You are crazy. Completely disagree. They've had two debacles they should have one. Good coach, great defense and some offense. They play in the tougest league in the country, so the record may not be there but they'll be a dangerous team come March.

They won't make it out of the B10 IMHO.

Larrylegend
12-19-2011, 12:03 PM
If you listen to Butler's Wunderkind coach, he harps and harps that each game he's looking for improvement. Butler IS improving and Butler will be the best defensive team GU has played all season.

If the game comes down to a coaching chess match, edge Butler.

RenoZag
12-19-2011, 12:19 PM
Izzo was bound and determined that Sacre wouldn't beat him. . .and it paid off becuase others couldn't make up the lost production and the Pepperidge Farm syndrome became contagious. . .Brad Stevens will face a similar decision: who will he be bound & determined to stop ? Harris ? Big Rob ? Pangos ? Whomever garners the lion's share of Butler's defensive attention has to have their points made up from elsewhere on the roster.

Who makes Butler pay ?

kitzbuel
12-19-2011, 12:37 PM
If I were an opposing coach, I would focus on Harris and Sacre. Don't let Harris get hot and don't let Sacre get the ball in the paint. Let somebody else bet me.

Echoing Reno, who is that somebody else?

bartruff1
12-19-2011, 12:37 PM
Is that if Bell and Pangos are hiting a few shots .....say 40%....they will make Butler Pay as Brad will sag and clog the middle and make Gonzaga prove they can score from the perimeter...MSU's guards are better than Butlers in my opinion.. but they won't beat themselves...it will be a game of limited possessions ...a ugly game of determination and little or no flow...slow tempo...half court....

maynard g krebs
12-19-2011, 12:42 PM
Ginger, I like nasty girls....

maynard g krebs has no idea who you're talking about. Now, if you're talking Thalia Meninger or Zelda Gilroy....well not much choice there.

True story, though, since you brought it up. Bob Denver (Gilligan) was caught in West Virginia with asterisk-asterisk-asterisk (or ###, as it is referred to on this site) in the late 90's. When asked by the cops where he got it, he said his friend Dawn Wells (Mary Jane) had mailed it to him from California. But in front of a judge, he refused to implicate her. So Gilligan was clearly a Mary Jane guy.

Zag4Hire
12-19-2011, 12:53 PM
I am not so concerned about the offensive end but the defensive end. Who is going to be on Stigall? GBJ? Both Illinois and MSU were shooting quite a bit better than 50% in the two losses. Butler's season stats are reflecting a sub 40% but they are Butler. They always play better than their paper numbers. If you think otherwise, they have been to the NCAA Championship game two times in a row. Keep drawing fouls and hustle for the 50/50 balls. They were great at both for BiS and I hope it continues.

primal23
12-19-2011, 02:29 PM
Hoping we get refs that let the players play.

RenoZag
12-19-2011, 03:06 PM
Dawn Wells was Mary Ann not Mary Jane. . .

bartruff1
12-19-2011, 03:30 PM
Dawn Wells was Mary Ann not Mary Jane. . ......but I still like Ginger.

btzag
12-19-2011, 08:17 PM
Butler is way better then those two teams. Brad Stevens is one hell of a coach. Are they down this year? Yeah but I could see GU lose this game if they don't bring the intensity, and without the students there stranger things have happened ala Portland St

Oh I agree we could lose because there are two teams competing and somebody has to lose... All I'm saying is that if you take the name off their jersey, look at the hard facts and statistics of that team, then look at their roster and their measurables and then finally look at their factual results on the court you will find a very mediocre team, even trending towards bad until the Purdue win. Again if we drop this game at home it is a TERRIBLE loss.

maynard g krebs
12-19-2011, 10:38 PM
Dawn Wells was Mary Ann not Mary Jane. . .

I used to know that. It's Bart's fault; he said it first.

ZagsGoZags
12-20-2011, 12:37 AM
They put EWU at 157 better than Butler

Also interesting, AP poll places us at 30 ranking, and no mention of St Mary's
while
Coaches poll places Saint Mary's ahead of us

This evidence would suggest BobZag might be wrong about Butler beating us

On the other hand, the other evidence, is that BobZag is almost always right.

Where or where to place your bets .....

bartruff1
12-20-2011, 03:51 AM
I used to know that. It's Bart's fault; he said it first. but the thing that always puzzled me about their situation was that really, once they were on th island, well, the captain was no longer in charge....

scott257
12-20-2011, 04:33 AM
Seems to me that Pangos, Stockton, or Carter (one of the three) need to become a consistent threat from outside. I was thinking that we were going to be off to the races this year after the Washington State game when Pangos went off, but to not even approach that in subsequent games is not good. It seems we always have an inside threat with Harris or Sacre but the outside threat is weak. Until we can get some balance, the Zags are going to struggle from game to game no matter who the opponent is.

Zagnailler
12-20-2011, 05:34 AM
Butler will sag the middle to protect against Sacre and Harris and then put Nored on Pangos until Bell torches 'em.

kitzbuel
12-20-2011, 05:53 AM
Butler will sag the middle to protect against Sacre and Harris and then put Nored on Pangos until Bell torches 'em.
Yup. And try to harass Pangos into TOs and beat Sacre and Harris to rebounds.

I think that Hart's hustle will be pretty important. We need to get rebounds, especially defensive rebounds IMO so that the Zag's 45% shooting really comes to bear against Butler's 42% shooting. Don't give Butler extra possessions.

primal23
12-20-2011, 08:05 AM
Yup. And try to harass Pangos into TOs and beat Sacre and Harris to rebounds.

I think that Hart's hustle will be pretty important. We need to get rebounds, especially defensive rebounds IMO so that the Zag's 45% shooting really comes to bear against Butler's 42% shooting. Don't give Butler extra possessions.

Edi will be a big help on the defensive end, and hopefully have a better more comfortable stroke in the Kennel!

U Zig, I Zag
12-20-2011, 09:37 AM
Butler will sag the middle to protect against Sacre and Harris and then put Nored on Pangos until Bell torches 'em.

Fast perimeter passing will be key, snap it around the 3pt line looking for the drop down pass. Hopefully we hit some open shots from deep (MM time?). Get ahead early and Butler will have to adjust on D - we then take it down low. Guards start the game and the bigs finish it going down the stretch.

Letting Hart go full speed for 5 mins at a time and then swapping out Edi will get the most out of those two. Sadly, Carter seems like a liability lately... :explode:

Baldwinzag
12-20-2011, 09:47 AM
Sadly, Carter seems like a liability lately... :explode:

It pains me to say it, yet he has been a liability. Its frustrating to watch, yet only b/c I feel for Carter. He's trying so hard, almost too hard. He wants the best for the team and the young guys look up to him.

He's better than his stats, I know it---

He's leading the team in total TO's(22), the lowest 3pt % (1 for 11 = .09%), and the lowest FG % of any guard (35%). Not to mention he has the same # of fouls as KP & GBJ, yet not as many minutes played.

Right now, it ain't pretty for him. He's his own worst critic as well.

However, it may be a slump/confidence issue and hopefully he'll find his game sooner rather than later this year. Either way, Gary Bell isn't going to be giving up his starting nod anytime soon...

zagfan24
12-20-2011, 09:54 AM
It pains me to say it, yet he has been a liability. Its frustrating to watch, yet only b/c I feel for Carter. He's trying so hard, almost too hard. He wants the best for the team and the young guys look up to him.

I feel the same way, Baldwin...when some players go through a slump it's easy to be frustrated at them for their poor play. With Carter, it's just kinda painful to watch. I admired his resilience last season and keep hoping he'll turn things around this year as well. At this point, he's really not doing much of anything to help the Zags on the court. If he doesn't turn things around fairly soon, I really wonder if Keita or Monninghoff would start getting some of his minutes.

U Zig, I Zag
12-20-2011, 10:02 AM
Last year early Carter looked like he was in slow motion and would make silly passes, charge into the lane (he doesn't elevate so it doesn't work, unlike Pargo) and just look out of it. THEN, out of the blue those same things worked. He hit open shots, inside the 3-pt line he would put up the floater or leave it for another player. His fouling wasn't as much of an issue.

This year: same thing all over again. Here's to hoping he turns it around.

Baldwinzag
12-20-2011, 10:13 AM
Last year early Carter looked like he was in slow motion and would make silly passes, charge into the lane (he doesn't elevate so it doesn't work, unlike Pargo) and just look out of it. THEN, out of the blue those same things worked. He hit open shots, inside the 3-pt line he would put up the floater or leave it for another player. His fouling wasn't as much of an issue.

This year: same thing all over again. Here's to hoping he turns it around.

Given how active 'Quise is on twitter & facebook, you get the sense his own worst enemy is his mind. He's a very intuitive, intrinsic, reflective kind of person. Once he settles down and plays his game, which he hasn't been, he should be fine. fwiw, the Zags haven't played one "dog" team this season to experiment with mistakes. This is good & bad, imo. No Howards, UNKSHFS, Jackson States, Military Academies, etc. I think Marquise needs this type of game/opponent to find himself on the court again. Every single one of our opponents is not a blow-out type of team for any one. For instance, UNC & Indian played no-name teams and both won by 50+ pts. If we played those teams, 'Quise, Spangler, Hoff, etc would all receive 20-30 mins to play through every mistake and gain confidence. While our schedule is the best I've ever seen and much to proud of, it'd be nice to have one 'gimme' game to get other young players or vets struggling up to speed.

btzag
12-20-2011, 07:04 PM
They put EWU at 157 better than Butler

Also interesting, AP poll places us at 30 ranking, and no mention of St Mary's
while
Coaches poll places Saint Mary's ahead of us

This evidence would suggest BobZag might be wrong about Butler beating us

On the other hand, the other evidence, is that BobZag is almost always right.

Where or where to place your bets .....

BobZag is almost always right when he is posting about insider info but not on "we are doomed" threads.

Listen, this Zags team is good. Period. We have tons of talent, tons of size and athleticism, and tons of desire. Half of the fans on this board seem to think this is a group of walk-ons at their tryout for freshman HS hoops! We all watch this team more closely than almost any media member in the whole country, trust your instincts!

We should have dominated Butler, we did dominate Butler, on to Air Force.

RenoZag
12-20-2011, 07:07 PM
Whomever garners the lion's share of Butler's defensive attention has to have their points made up from elsewhere on the roster.

Who makes Butler pay ?

Pangos, Harris, Dower. . .nice job fellahs !

bballguy
12-20-2011, 07:13 PM
Nobody plays harder than Butler?
Apparently we do!

gamagin
12-20-2011, 07:20 PM
Nobody plays harder than Butler?
Apparently we do!

Yes, we do. And better this year, too.

U Zig, I Zag
12-20-2011, 07:53 PM
Yes, we do. And better this year, too.

Have to agree. We looked better, but they have some players.

Deal is, if Pangos et al can get anything from outside then it changes it quite a bit.

A wounded Edi (leg wrapped thigh to calf) got more mins than Carter. This is prob few tightening the lineup.

Bogozags
12-20-2011, 08:23 PM
Yes, we do. And better this year, too.

I really liked our intensity and when they closed to within six, we just kept our cool...they are playing much better these last two games...

Our TEAM defense has IMO, really improved over the last three games and that is what we need to remain consistent and to continue playing at a very high level.

WallaWallaZag
12-21-2011, 12:58 AM
I really liked our intensity and when they closed to within six, we just kept our cool...they are playing much better these last two games...

Our TEAM defense has IMO, really improved over the last three games and that is what we need to remain consistent and to continue playing at a very high level.

it does look like our defense has improved the last two games, but both arizona and butler are pretty bad perimeter shooting teams, so i'm gonna hold off until we play a team that can really shoot it before i'm convinced.

zaguarxj
12-21-2011, 06:28 AM
I thought the Zags matched Butler's intensity pretty well. I loved the sequence in the 2nd half when the game went back-and-forth at full speed for about 5 possesions in a row. It wasn't pretty or very productive but neither coach would call a time-out or slow the kids down. It was like a test of wills between the teams/coaches and neither team backed down. I think they were saved by a TV timeout.

McZag
12-21-2011, 07:24 AM
I plan to be in attendance and will be my loudest for the Zags, but I think Butler will ultimately take down our Zags in a tight, close game.

DOOMED! Bob you got me again. Can't wait for your prediction against AF. Thanks for the chuckles as always!

zagco
12-21-2011, 08:13 AM
The other thing about Butler is that no one runs the weave faster than they do! Wow. That was dizzying to watch. They didn't do it a ton, but WOW! Looked like the Harlem Globetrotters.