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SWZag
12-16-2011, 03:15 AM
Due to the fact that the "No Xavier Players Will Miss GU Game" has resorted to who hit who first, I'm starting a new thread.

Three players will indeed miss the Xavier-GU game, according to SWX.

Xavier trio will be unavailable for game against Gonzaga (http://www.swxrightnow.com/story/16332694/xavier-trio-will-be-unavailable-for-game-against-gonzaga)


Freshman Dez Wells and sophomore Landen Amos were suspended for four games for their part in the fight. Junior guard Mark Lyons was suspended for two games and guard Tu Holloway was suspended for one game. Frease received a six game suspension. In all, three players will not be available for the Dec. 31 game against Gonzaga.

SWZag

raise the zag
12-16-2011, 03:40 AM
If you just glance at their schedule posted on ESPN, it appears so, yet the OP is, indeed, accurate. What the schedule doesn't show is Xavier plays in a 3-game Tournament (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/33629/bracket-reveal-diamond-head-classic) prior to Christmas.

Xavier's maximum suspension is/was 4 games -- Dez Wells (10ppg, 5rpg) & walk-on Landen Amos (never played). The rest of the players, Lyons & Holloway, received 2 & 1, respectively. The Frease comment must be referring to Gates, who is the Cincy player who received a 6 game suspension. Frease didn't do anything besides receive a sucker-punch via Gates & attempt to restrain his out-of-control teammates. Frease is suspended for 0 games.

Prior to playing Gonzaga, the Muskateers play:

1 - Oral Roberts (Dec 17th) - minus 3 starters & 4 players
2 - Long Beach St in Hawaii (Dec 22nd) - minus 2 starters & 3 players
3 - Winner of Auburn/Hawaii (Dec 23) - minus 1 starter & 2 players
4 - Winner of K-State/Clemson/UTEP (Dec 25th) - minus 1 starter & 2 players

-------------------4 game suspension over-----------------------

5 - Gonzaga (Dec 31st) - ALL Xavier players eligible to play vs Zags.

Was it a coincidence Xavier administrators elected to suspend their players for only (4) games considering the Zags are the (5th) game? Hmmm...probably not.

Thus, the thread title, "No Xavier Players Will Miss GU Game" is correct.

bartruff1
12-16-2011, 04:31 AM
I doubt it has anything to do with Gonzaga. Gonzaga is the center of our basketball universe, not Xaiver's. They have bigger fish to fry. If we beat them there it will be a major upset reguardless who they play.

raise the zag
12-16-2011, 04:46 AM
I doubt it has anything to do with Gonzaga. Gonzaga is the center of our basketball universe, not Xaiver's. They have bigger fish to fry. If we beat them there it will be a major upset reguardless who they play.

I think it benefits Gonzaga -- win or lose -- for Xavier to have a complete roster(my hope is people/NCAA Committee won't assume they had players suspended for GU game). Our guards are going to have to shoot lights out & our bigs will need a double-double for us to have a chance. X doesn't lose at home and are a Top-10 team, honestly, one of the very few teams who have earned their ranking thus far. They look every bit as good & balanced as any other high ranking team I've seen play this season. . .

sittingon50
12-16-2011, 06:50 AM
Not to split hairs Bart. I'm sure the Zags will be the underdogs in Vegas but since they beat X last year, I wouldn't characterize a Zag win this time around as a "major" upset.

bartruff1
12-16-2011, 06:59 AM
Not to split hairs Bart. I'm sure the Zags will be the underdogs in Vegas but since they beat X last year, I wouldn't characterize a Zag win this time around as a "major" upset. For a young team to beat a top ten team on the road is a major upset for me. This Xavier team (IMHO) has a real shot at a FF and even a NC...if they can stick together and focus ...the fight might even be a positive for them as a team. The "us against the world" can motivate for a whole season...again, IMHO. If the word major upsets you....ignore it...

sittingon50
12-16-2011, 08:35 AM
The ignore feature sometimes works for posters.

Is there a way to ignore individual words?

bartruff1
12-16-2011, 08:43 AM
The ignore feature sometimes works for posters.

Is there a way to ignore individual words?....LOL...no, I think you just have to consider the source....

Coptrdr
12-16-2011, 09:13 AM
Just seems if your going to be in a dogfight and there will be scars..win or lose its hard to brag about a scar if the dog that gave it to you was missing a tooth! Anyone, anywhere...but bring your A game!

Xavier Fan
12-16-2011, 12:24 PM
Needless to say last Saturday was a terrible day for Xavier. I’d like the opportunity to apologize and clarify some things about Xavier and the incident.

Xavier is - and has for many years - been a model of student athletics - among the tops in the NCAA in graduating student athletes, including men’s basketball players. In fact, XU has graduated every men’s basketball player who has played here as a senior for over 25 years running: "A school with an 89% rate, Xavier University, has been singled out for special mention. While it cannot claim perfection, it can claim that since 1985 every single senior who has played on the Xavier team has graduated." Reference:http://www.openeducation.net/2010/03/23/mens-divison-i-basketball-called-out-for-poor-graduation-rates/. We, like Gonzaga, are a Jesuit school that honors that tradition. The players are not bad or dangerous people, and this is certainly not a program run amuck.

First, the XU-UC game has been a very intense rivalry for many years. http://www.crosstownshootout.com/. The local media has fed off of this and continued to increase the intensity over the years. Here’s an example of what leads up to this game: http://cincinnati.com/blogs/daugherty/2011/12/09/the-morning-line-129-3/ . My point is this wasn’t “just another game”. I’ll be the first to tell you that it does NOT justify what happened, but it at least helps provide some perspective.

Secondly, Tu Holloway is a good person who has conducted himself very well at XU for the last 3-plus years. From a personal experience, after XU clinched the A-10 title last year, he spent time talking and having his picture taken with the fans, instead of celebrating with his teammates. I agree his excessive trash talk was wrong, but like even a poster on this board said, this is part of the game (see post #52 of “No Xavier Players to Miss the GU Game” thread). Moreover, Tu did NOT punch anyone. This is not opinion, but fact after the A-10 and XU reviewed multiple videos: http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20111213/SPT0102/312140037 This is also the account of multiple eye-witnesses aligned with both schools. Yes, I saw the video cited in post #17 of the “No Xavier Players to Miss the GU Game”, and hope I don’t need to touch on the uncertain nature of a conclusion to the contrary based only on this. Regarding his “gangster” reference, there is a cultural difference in terminology that must be understood: http://halloftheblackdragon.com/reel/1004/the-difference-between-a-thug-and-a-gangster.html. He was NOT saying the XU team is a bunch of gang-bangers, as many perceive. Again, I’m not making excuses, and agree he handled himself poorly in the post-game press-conference, and understand why he was suspended for it.

Next, Kenny Frease absolutely did not “hit a woman in the stands”. The woman in question was a UC fan behind their bench that was taunting the XU players as they left the court, when he yelled and pointed to face “look what your players did to my eye”. Again, multiple eye-witnesses confirm this. The County Prosecutor (who I might add went to UC) looked at all aspects of the brawl, and had this to say: http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20111214/NEWS01/312130041/No-charges-Crosstown-Shootout-brawl.

I understand many feel the suspensions were too light. I will only say that the punishment was handed out in conjunction with the A-10. One thing I am sure of is I wish the NCAA handled suspensions, to remove doubt about fairness or intention.

I apologize for Xavier’s mistakes, and am sorry if you feel we’ve hurt the Jesuit name and tradition. I understand that. Please don’t jump to conclusions about the integrity of our program or the character of our players without examining all the facts. This was an anomaly, not the norm. The players, coaches, administration and fans have learned a lot from it and will do much better going forward. Here’s someone who can tell you much better than I: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFqBOM2DSko

TheGonzagaFactor
12-16-2011, 12:39 PM
I'm just glad Landry had a longer suspension than anyone involved in the Xavier/Cincy fight. Playing semi pro basketball at the age of 15/16 is unacceptable.

Zag 77
12-16-2011, 12:51 PM
Xavier Fan, I appreciate that XU has done some positive things in athletics and academics over the years. However, it can all be undone in an instant. What Tu Holloway did in instigating that fight and proudly announcing that he and his guys were "gangtas" who "zipped up" UC was unacceptable to any of us who value high Jesuit ideals. The idiot comments from him are really worse than the punches, and yet he gets a one game suspension. He really ought to do somewhere in the 10 game range. He sure as heck should do at least as much as the guys who got 4. Some of us who went to Jesuit schools think your President, Fr. Graham, wussed out. Have him talk to the Jesuits at USF about how a basketball program can go out of control and destroy a school's good name.

Fr. Graham can't hide behind the fact that the A-10 came up with those suspensions. Those are minimums and XU ought to look to higher standards.

ZagNut08
12-16-2011, 12:53 PM
I don't care to go read all the X message boards out there to see if what I'm seeing is representative of the fan base as a whole, but the people who come and post on our boards are doing nothing to help my perception of their fanbase.

The one game suspension is a joke, an absolute joke. I will now be able to watch X games because I will always have a team I adamantly want to watch lose.

Although I may be biased, because I my last two experiences playing pickup ball went something like this:
1) 24 Hour Fitness - "gangster" mentality ball led to constant trash talk by the other team. My bro blocks one of the guys shots and says he lets his game talk, get blindsided by a "gangster" and is sent to the hospital (and shockingly 4 of them pile on and kick while he is on the ground...that was a fun one to break up.)
2) Playing in a rec league hosted by a church and same thing happens, fight breaks out, gets very racists, etc.

hondo
12-16-2011, 01:39 PM
I understand that XU plans to drop the hammer on the Gym janitor's assistant. Somebody has to pay.

bartruff1
12-16-2011, 01:51 PM
Take up golf or tennis...

delhibearcat
12-16-2011, 02:01 PM
You have to understand these Xavier fans. They've been pushing the "Their $hit don't stink" BS for years.

Xavier Fan: "First, the XU-UC game has been a very intense rivalry for many years." ... Very true, going all the way back to the '50s when Oscar Robertson was struck in the head by a beer bottle thrown from the stands.

Xavier Fan: "Secondly, Tu Holloway is a good person who has conducted himself very well at XU for the last 3-plus years." ... Oh believe you me, he's been a real peach. From destroying the locker room after a loss at Butler to throwing a vicious elbow at UC's Irahima Thomas at last season's shootout (which drew a T, but no punishment from X).

Xavier Fan: Next, Kenny Frease absolutely did not “hit a woman in the stands”. The woman in question was a UC fan behind their bench that was taunting the XU players as they left the court" ... LOL!!! The Frease stuff has to be the best. Luckily I have the video from Cincinnati's Fox 19 that I'll leave a link to so you can view it... Xavier Fan must have forgot.

http://www.fox19.com/story/16279162/fight-ends-crosstown-shootout

1:16... What's the choir boy Gangsta Tu Halloway doing with his left hand? How come it appears to be moving in a swinging motion towards UC's #14?

1:20-1:32... The Xavier base has claimed Kenny Frease was an inocent victim attempting to break up the fight. Why's he bullrushing the UC bench then? If a guy was trying to break up a fight, he'd be holding back HIS TEAMMATES. Where's there a white jersey anywhere in the vacinity of where Frease is headed. X Fan really expects anyone to believe he was attempting to break up a brawl by bullrushing members of the other team? LOL... no one would do this. Where were the UC players running to hold Xavier players back? Oh that's right, anyone with any common sense knows you grab your guys and hold them back.

1:36-1:46... I stand corrected. Frease is clearly a cool headed individual attempting to defuse the situation. LOL!!! Remember he was only doing this because the women had taunted him leaving the floor. That clearly explains why he and his teammates are standing on the scorer's table taunting the UC fans... because they were leaving the floor...DUH! Real classy going after some elderly women Kenny. Thank God they pulled him away or Glass Joe probably would have had two black eyes. And for the record, no one ever said he hit the woman, the reports were he slapped a cell phone out of her hand. The woman is the wife of a UC assistant coach, and reportedly left a complaint with the XU Police on site... Think you'll ever hear about it again? I know one thing for sure, Kenny regrets that headbutt he hit Yancy Gates with two years ago now.

This unsportsmanlike behavior is nothing new for X either. Check out this Youtube clip from the '96 Shootout. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzcxKlivGno The X fan cut this one pretty well, but you can still tell. After X hits the winning shot, THEIR ENTIRE TEAM, COACHES, AND CHEERLEADERS run to the other end of the court to celebrate in front of UC's bench. It's hard to tell, but pause it at the :10 mark and you can see what they're doing. This was 15years ago... it's nothing new.

This photo came from earlier in that game.
http://assets.sbnation.com/imported_assets/78964/brown-huggs.jpg

I guess this just happens against UC though right Xavier Fan? I wonder what Purdue coach Matt Painter had to say about his team's trip to Cintas.

http://www.espn1530.com/pages/lancesBlog.html


On the Shootout and playing Xavier earlier this year:
"If you watched our game with Xavier it happened all the time (trash talking), and it continued to happened. And in neither game did they (officials) get control of the game."



On his frustration with Xavier:
Right away, from watching film, they (XU) talk. They talk a lot. It was one of the first thing we talked about in our scouting report, was tell our guys 'don't get caught up".
When we got into the game, the same thing happened. I'm talking to the officials about things happening in the game, about timeouts and their guys were hitting our players coming off the timeouts, and they are looking at me like I was crazy. If you watch the film it happened, it's easy to see and the refs just ignored it. To me it could have been handled. If it was handled in our game, it doesn't happen in the UC game."



On feedback he gave Rick Boyages (Big Ten Associate Commissioner) about Purdue's game vs Xavier:
Maybe I wasn't aggressive after the XU game, in terms of giving feedback because obvioulsy it's not our conference, but I gave him that feedback. I told him I was concerned that these things would continue and what would they lead to? I watched that game (UC-XU). I'm really not that smart a guy. But watching the first half I said, 'something is going to happen, there's going to be a fight'. I'm sitting there watching, getting ready for Oregon, and it's easy for me to see that. It's got to be real easy to see if you are working the game to see it."

Xavier's had quite a few good Jesuit boys come through their program over the years... Guys like:

Maurice Brantley: http://mdocweb.state.mi.us/otis2/otis2pr...ber=295105 A convicted murderer with a Schedule 1 narcotics CONVICTION during his playing days at X. No punishment was ever given for the narcotics conviction while an active player.

Andre Smith: http://www.clevescene.com/cleveland/waking-up-bingo/Content?oid=1489886 WOW! How many other Jesuit programs with choir boy players can stake claim to having two convicted murderers play for them? Sad part... I'm pretty sure there was a third from awhile ago, but I can't remember his name.

Lloyd Price: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/27/sports/colleges-fdu-robbery-is-comedy-of-errors.html Another former Muskie. ''It's the dumbest crook I know,'' Patel said yesterday about the incident, which he said was the first armed robbery in the 17 years he has owned Rocklins. This genius robbed a place with a starter's pistol, dropped it, and exposed his face to find the gun... LOL!!!

The Xavier fans always like to point out this stuff happened after they left X, so I guess it's true that going to Xavier makes you a worse person then you were before. Clearly a good Jesuit program like X wouldn't take players capable of such actions... LOL!!!

Then in closing this little gem... just because it's so funny. http://deadspin.com/5867747/xavier-president-father-michael-graham-allegedly-threw-holy-water-on-rowdy-fans-as-the-crosstown-brawl-raged
(http://deadspin.com/5867747/xavier-president-father-michael-graham-allegedly-threw-holy-water-on-rowdy-fans-as-the-crosstown-brawl-raged) The President of Xavier University had to start throwing possibly holy water on the crowd to calm them down after the game. Not 19 year old students... 50 year old, big money donors. LOL!!!

The brawl at the end of the Crosstown Shootout was unexcusable, and should have never happened on either side. In honesty though, it's almost worth it. The BS "Good Jesuit Boys" crap they been shoveling for years has finally been exposed nationally. Unfortunately, we knew it around here all along. Good luck to your Bulldogs during their trip to Cintas, and I truly hope your players and any fans making the trip are able to make it out of that cage safely.

TheGonzagaFactor
12-16-2011, 02:33 PM
Do we have Xavier-Cincy smack talk in this thread? Really? I don't care. Just beat them 8 out of 9 times and they will cancel the series.

primal23
12-16-2011, 02:40 PM
All this BS is why GU needs to get out of this game, not worth putting our players into the "gangsters" lair. I would rather have a L then play these punks.

Bogozags
12-16-2011, 06:19 PM
Needless to say last Saturday was a terrible day for Xavier. I’d like the opportunity to apologize and clarify some things about Xavier and the incident.

Xavier is - and has for many years - been a model of student athletics - among the tops in the NCAA in graduating student athletes, including men’s basketball players. In fact, XU has graduated every men’s basketball player who has played here as a senior for over 25 years running: "A school with an 89% rate, Xavier University, has been singled out for special mention. While it cannot claim perfection, it can claim that since 1985 every single senior who has played on the Xavier team has graduated." Reference:http://www.openeducation.net/2010/03/23/mens-divison-i-basketball-called-out-for-poor-graduation-rates/. We, like Gonzaga, are a Jesuit school that honors that tradition. The players are not bad or dangerous people, and this is certainly not a program run amuck.

First, the XU-UC game has been a very intense rivalry for many years. http://www.crosstownshootout.com/. The local media has fed off of this and continued to increase the intensity over the years. Here’s an example of what leads up to this game: http://cincinnati.com/blogs/daugherty/2011/12/09/the-morning-line-129-3/ . My point is this wasn’t “just another game”. I’ll be the first to tell you that it does NOT justify what happened, but it at least helps provide some perspective.

Secondly, Tu Holloway is a good person who has conducted himself very well at XU for the last 3-plus years. From a personal experience, after XU clinched the A-10 title last year, he spent time talking and having his picture taken with the fans, instead of celebrating with his teammates. I agree his excessive trash talk was wrong, but like even a poster on this board said, this is part of the game (see post #52 of “No Xavier Players to Miss the GU Game” thread). Moreover, Tu did NOT punch anyone. This is not opinion, but fact after the A-10 and XU reviewed multiple videos: http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20111213/SPT0102/312140037 This is also the account of multiple eye-witnesses aligned with both schools. Yes, I saw the video cited in post #17 of the “No Xavier Players to Miss the GU Game”, and hope I don’t need to touch on the uncertain nature of a conclusion to the contrary based only on this. Regarding his “gangster” reference, there is a cultural difference in terminology that must be understood: http://halloftheblackdragon.com/reel/1004/the-difference-between-a-thug-and-a-gangster.html. He was NOT saying the XU team is a bunch of gang-bangers, as many perceive. Again, I’m not making excuses, and agree he handled himself poorly in the post-game press-conference, and understand why he was suspended for it.

Next, Kenny Frease absolutely did not “hit a woman in the stands”. The woman in question was a UC fan behind their bench that was taunting the XU players as they left the court, when he yelled and pointed to face “look what your players did to my eye”. Again, multiple eye-witnesses confirm this. The County Prosecutor (who I might add went to UC) looked at all aspects of the brawl, and had this to say: http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20111214/NEWS01/312130041/No-charges-Crosstown-Shootout-brawl.

I understand many feel the suspensions were too light. I will only say that the punishment was handed out in conjunction with the A-10. One thing I am sure of is I wish the NCAA handled suspensions, to remove doubt about fairness or intention.

I apologize for Xavier’s mistakes, and am sorry if you feel we’ve hurt the Jesuit name and tradition. I understand that. Please don’t jump to conclusions about the integrity of our program or the character of our players without examining all the facts. This was an anomaly, not the norm. The players, coaches, administration and fans have learned a lot from it and will do much better going forward. Here’s someone who can tell you much better than I: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFqBOM2DSko

First, thanks for posting...

Secondly, I always root for non-BCS teams, except when they play us.

Thirdly, I was truly disappointed in Xavier's coach/staff, because that was festering all game long. I also blame the officials for allowing the trash talking. It was a very bad day for college basketball much the same as the brawl in Detroit. Tu Holloway, as a senior, sure didn't display any leadership skills during the game or during the news conference. Didn't see any contrite remorse coming from those players and believe suspensions should have been longer BUT because CBB is high dollar entertainment, suspensions were kept to a minimum...imo.

In closing, Xavier is a fine academic institution and will survive this incident and grow as before. I think the "team" will have learned much as well and hope they continue to improve, win the A10, get a high seed (2-3) and play well, AFTER we beat you on your court...and we won't trash talk either!