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View Full Version : Post ORU - Feel better or worse?



DixieZag
12-15-2011, 08:23 PM
I was lucky enough to go to the game tonight, the Kennel was pretty dead b/c most of the students have gone home.

I was very interested in seeing how the guys would respond to 2 straight losses and a big game coming up v. AZ and playing an undermanned but game opponent in ORU. I have mixed emotions.

I was very happy to see that the game plan was not to pound the ball inside and draw fouls all game, I was happy to see Bell play almost the entire game, he got off to a good start and played extremely good defense. I thought that our guards did a good job of getting the bigs good looks for easy shots. The guards had a rough shooting night overall, but that is going to happen.

The turnovers continue to be a complete enigma. We will lose a lot of games that we should win if we continue this pattern. I love Carter, he is a great story and a great kid, but he is playing his way off the floor, I dearly hope that he can turn it around, he just has NO confidence, you could see that as he hesitated to take a wide open three, we simply are not the same team if Carter is not playing like he was at the end of last year.

Dower played well tonight offensively, he seemed to be able to get position better and picked his spots. I was happy to see Spangler get some minutes b/c he seems to be able to catch the ball on the move in space, he made a great lay-up through his off the ball movement and flushed a nice jumper at the elbow, I think he is earning more time. Rob still seems to struggle with the concept of simply going up strong immediately, if he gets the ball deep enough there is no reason for him to try to back his man down.

Overall, the game left a bad taste in the mouth b/c I think we should have handled that team fairly easily - BUT - I don't think there will be many nights where Pangos goes 2/9 and Bell goes 2/5 (though 2/5 from the three is not bad) and if some of those shots fell we would have felt a lot of momentum going into the big game on Saturday.

But the turnovers. . . Compared to yesterday, do you feel more or less confident going into Saturday?

TheGonzagaFactor
12-15-2011, 08:37 PM
BETTER.

ORU had the ball bouncing their way (I don't know if they had enough and-1's) and we found a way to win. I was pretty happy to see us perk up after that last timeout, the intensity would have been nice all game but good teams find ways to beat bad teams. Good work, guys.

LongIslandZagFan
12-15-2011, 08:38 PM
Gotta clean up the TOs, but liked the offensive balance tonight.

Minutely better... they gotta get a good grip on the rock.

RenoZag
12-15-2011, 08:43 PM
Compared to yesterday, do you feel more or less confident going into Saturday?

Less.

DixieZag
12-15-2011, 08:44 PM
Gotta clean up the TOs, but liked the offensive balance tonight.

Minutely better... they gotta get a good grip on the rock.

Pretty much where I am. I am surprised that we did not turn them over more, I thought our defensive intensity was pretty good all game. Bell is a flat gamer, he gives 100% on the defensive end - as good as any Zag that I remember.

Baldwinzag
12-15-2011, 08:46 PM
Gotta clean up the TOs, but liked the offensive balance tonight.

Minutely better... they gotta get a good grip on the rock.


Pretty much where I am. I am surprised that we did not turn them over more, I thought our defensive intensity was pretty good all game. Bell is a flat gamer, he gives 100% on the defensive end - as good as any Zag that I remember.

+2 no more, no less.

Section 116
12-15-2011, 08:47 PM
Two things Tommy Lloyd addressed on post game radio:

1. When we get those leads we have to build on them, not let the opponent back in the game.

2. Way too many turnovers which leads to number one!

Lloyd did give kudos to Spangler, said the kid practices too hard and too well to be sitting on the bench. And as he comes around Sacre and Dower can get some bench time instead of Sacre playing 16 minute stretches for instance.

NEC26
12-15-2011, 08:48 PM
Our guards have to stop the silly turnovers and forced passes. If they can manage that we can beat Arizona.

ZagNative
12-15-2011, 08:48 PM
Overall, the game left a bad taste in the mouth b/c I think we should have handled that team fairly easily - BUT - I don't think there will be many nights where Pangos goes 2/9 and Bell goes 2/5 (though 2/5 from the three is not bad) and if some of those shots fell we would have felt a lot of momentum going into the big game on Saturday.

But the turnovers. . . Compared to yesterday, do you feel more or less confident going into Saturday?
Probably less confident.

DixieZag
12-15-2011, 08:51 PM
Two things Tommy Lloyd addressed on post game radio:

1. When we get those leads we have to build on them, not let the opponent back in the game.

2. Way too many turnovers which leads to number one!

Lloyd did give kudos to Spangler, said the kid practices too hard and too well to be sitting on the bench. And as he comes around Sacre and Dower can get some bench time instead of Sacre playing 16 minute stretches for instance.

Love to hear that about Spangler. He has great hands. I see nothing but upside to him, if it is fatigue that is leading our bigs to turning it over, then by all means play the man 12 minutes a game.

JPtheBeasta
12-15-2011, 09:00 PM
I trust the bench less after this game. We looked lost defensively with Rob on the bench. Carter, MM, and Dower should all be playing more consistantly than the freshmen and walk-ons, not worse (Dower's offensive contribution, and block-called-foul notwithstanding).

The trap also worked too well against us. That scares me against a more athletic AZ team.

bartruff1
12-15-2011, 09:01 PM
I was mildly disappointed in the MSU loss....I expected this to be a contest but a win at home...and I always thought that a win over Arizona would be a huge upset...I really enjoy watching this team play...I like the press...I like the way they push the ball...I like they way they play together...something like 16 assists...I really like their shot selection...but Arizona will be tough to beat especially as they have had something like 6 days to practice and Few only has a day..Carter will come around ..

Bogozags
12-15-2011, 09:01 PM
Less.

Interesting that you feel that way as I concur. Don't see significant team improvement and UA has some good athletes on their team...believe a couple of their guards were on our wish list.

I feel as though our frosh are not making the step-up to a higher level as quickly as I would like and in time, they will make us a much better team but just don't think we are quite to that point.

Have not ruled out a victory this Saturday but it will be another challenging, nail-biting game.

Zag365
12-15-2011, 09:03 PM
I would have liked to see fewer turnovers and not let ORU make runs that kept the score close towards the end. But, all-in-all, another step forward by this team. Nothing flashy. Working hard on D. Being efficient on offense. Hitting our free throws, especially down the stretch. Out-rebounding the other guys. Winning by committee. Keep seasoning Pangos and Bell. Avoiding Rob getting in foul-trouble early. Getting the rotation set for conference play.

Can't worry about rankings for now. Need to give our best 8 plenty of experience.

I'll be there on Saturday looking for a solid game against AZ hoping that we can pull it out. Should be a close one.

The fact that Meech's offense did not progress to the customary high-level for a GU junior/senior guard created a gap in our level of guard play last year and this year that has been a real challenge.

Baseline
12-15-2011, 09:05 PM
I see a potential for a very good team if just a few things change. The obvious, turnovers and more consistent shooting. These are good shooters, but they are not making their numbers.
Pangos is turning into a true floor general and is expanding his game with his drives. He doesn't get beat much on defense and seems cool and slows things down when needed.
Bell continues to grow and plays great defense.
Harris is playing with energy he just needs to keep it up without his quiet spells.
Dower broke out tonight, lets hope it lasts.
Sacrae is solid, not his greatest game, but solid.
Carter needs to find his confidence or he won't be getting off the bench when WCC starts.
The 3 point defense is getting better!

Bocco
12-15-2011, 09:08 PM
turnovers, turnovers, and more turnovers - I won't feel better until they're gone.

DixieZag
12-15-2011, 09:11 PM
I would have liked to see fewer turnovers and not let ORU make runs that kept the score close towards the end. But, all-in-all, another step forward by this team. Nothing flashy. Working hard on D. Being efficient on offense. Hitting our free throws, especially down the stretch. Out-rebounding the other guys. Winning by committee. Keep seasoning Pangos and Bell. Avoiding Rob getting in foul-trouble early. Getting the rotation set for conference play.

Can't worry about rankings for now. Need to give our best 8 plenty of experience.

I'll be there on Saturday looking for a solid game against AZ hoping that we can pull it out. Should be a close one.

The fact that Meech's offense did not progress to the customary high-level for a GU junior/senior guard created a gap in our level of guard play last year and this year that has been a real challenge.

I thought that we saw some improvement in that area b/c our bigs got the best looks they have gotten all year tonight. I think that the guards are getting better at feeding the post, but I think that is more b/c they are now a scoring threat on their own so no one sags off of them. If the guards can keep hitting outside shots, it will help open up the middle for good looks.

I want to see more passes to big men moving through a screen, catch and shoot, one motion. That used to be our trademark, think Calvary, Turiaf and Violette.

04ZagFan
12-15-2011, 09:21 PM
WORSE. The turnovers are out of control and our offense is atrocious.

upan8th
12-15-2011, 09:21 PM
Saw the final score. Didn't see the game. We are DOOMED on Saturday. Unless, of course, Reborn says otherwise.

Ezag
12-15-2011, 09:22 PM
Interesting that you feel that way as I concur. Don't see significant team improvement and UA has some good athletes on their team...believe a couple of their guards were on our wish list.

I feel as though our frosh are not making the step-up to a higher level as quickly as I would like and in time, they will make us a much better team but just don't think we are quite to that point.

Have not ruled out a victory this Saturday but it will be another challenging, nail-biting game.

+1

gamagin
12-15-2011, 09:25 PM
past games.

I saw RS and EH (don't remember dower) actually kicking out the ball to the top of the key, to a shooter. many times. Don't believe I've seen that this year before this game.

I saw RS get a board and STAY upright (not bending down where others can steal it) and put the ball back. For two. More than once. He reverted back later on BUT this was different. A breakthrough.

I thought GB made two huge treys which were game makers and he had his best, complete, game so far, imo. Hart, too, canned a three when it was needed most. A game maker.

EH made some nice drives and boards. I expect more but I'm seeing more, too. That's good.

KP went 8-8 from the f.t. line with two critical makes near the end. He & GB turned in complete games against some wily veterans and held their own. DS played pretty good D, but had an off night on O. Two treys rimmed out, so he was close. Could have gone either way.

Spangler is one.tough.kid. We need him. I think we'll be seeing him more and more.

SD was either one board or one point from a double double. that's a long ways from the last few weeks. Hopefullly it's a good start for him & he can build on it.

Carter needs a huge shot of confidence. I'm beginning to think he's a second half (of the season) guy. And we'll need him. Meantime, he's likely going to do more watching than playing. Unless he catches fire. Which has happened.

As for how we do against Arizona, I have no idea. I hope the little things that we did right multiply, like tribbles, and we kick their butts. It's possible.

CDC84
12-15-2011, 09:41 PM
The offense is not atrocious when they don't turn it over. Gonzaga shot 51% tonight from the field, and they shot it well against Illinois. They didn't shoot it horribly against MSU when you consider that they nailed 7 three pointers at a 50% clip.

But the team is giving away way too many possessions with the stupid turnovers. And they are stupid...almost none of them are coming from outstanding defense.

This was not an ideal post-finals game. I would be surprised if ORU isn't a NCAA tournament team. They're the class of their league. This is the kind of game where you want to play UC-Riverside or Radford.

webspinnre
12-15-2011, 10:04 PM
Gotta clean up the TOs, but liked the offensive balance tonight.

Minutely better... they gotta get a good grip on the rock.

Yeah, pretty much this. The turnovers are what's driving me nuts.

roxdoc
12-15-2011, 10:17 PM
I for one was encouraged about tonight’s game. I was probably most impressed by the coaches choice not to go to so much of an inside game. It was great to see the coaches moving the team away from being a one trick pony.

Our starting guards played very well, which ultimately began to open up the inside. The starting bigs at least began to pass back out a bit. Dower and Spangler had very credible minutes. I thought our ability to repeatedly complete a feed to Dower was particularly telling.

The turnovers were not good, particularly for Bell, but these are correctable in a player of his obvious capability.

All in all we are still a work in progress but the players have shown what they can do under a different offensive scheme. The scheme will undoubtedly change depending upon our opponent, but I am excited about perhaps (?) now having some offensive versatility.

Big picture stuff

DixieZag
12-15-2011, 10:26 PM
I for one was encouraged about tonight’s game. I was probably most impressed by the coaches choice not to go to so much of an inside game. It was great to see the coaches moving the team away from being a one trick pony.

Our starting guards played very well, which ultimately began to open up the inside. The starting bigs at least began to pass back out a bit. Dower and Spangler had very credible minutes. I thought our ability to repeatedly complete a feed to Dower was particularly telling.

The turnovers were not good, particularly for Bell, but these are correctable in a player of his obvious capability.

All in all we are still a work in progress but the players have shown what they can do under a different offensive scheme. The scheme will undoubtedly change depending upon our opponent, but I am excited about perhaps (?) now having some offensive versatility.

Big picture stuff

Great post. I agree that we looked less predictable on offense - allowing our guards to do more offensively may be the key to getting the most out of our bigs.

Zag 77
12-15-2011, 10:44 PM
Got a win against an under-rated team with lots of experience. Dower seems to be coming out of his offensive funk (although he needs to improve on defense). Harris got a double-double. Nice shots by Hart and Bell in crunch time. Overall good defense and rebounding. Turnovers will gradually get better as the guards get some more experience. Sacre had a workman-like performance. FT shooting acceptable overall. Nice work off the bench by Spangler. Carter playing like the Carter of the first half of last season (maybe he needs 15-18 games to get warmed up).

2wiceright
12-15-2011, 10:47 PM
Two under classmen combine for half of our turnovers (even though they happen to be Bell and Stockton- one our most promising recruit in years who otherwise played great, and the other a key player who doesn't back down, and every game comes in and lifts the team with phenomenal play).

That's 8 turnovers out of 17, two key guys that usually protect the ball had a sloppy game. Then add Carter who had 3 more, that's 12 out of 17. And I really feel bad for Carter at this point as his confidence seems to have dropped to an all-time low. But the real anomaly was Bell and Stockton. They don't usually play like that (they protect the ball). So I don't feel bad about tonights game as a lot of others came out of their 'so called' funk - namely Dower and Harris(with 1 turnover between them!). Our point guard played great defense, took care of the ball (1 turnover) and took good shots, played great D and led the team in scoring.

Really good point guard play is what we have been missing and tonights game also shored up my confidence in that area too. So, yes, I feel a lot better after the game tonight. We beat a NCAA team tonight (picked to win their conference) and this could well have been a "trap" game. Our guys are ready for Sat. and I think the two key guards will go back to protecting the ball so we won't be hampered by turnovers... Enough said....

Sunday, after we beat Arizona, we'll find some other problem to focus on (we need to savor the wins!!!).

Zag@LMU
12-16-2011, 12:43 AM
Carter played his best game of the year

Birddog
12-16-2011, 02:25 AM
I feel slightly better. There were obviously too many TO's. Is it just me or does this team seem to dribble too much. I thought so last night.

ZagMan in Philly
12-16-2011, 03:00 AM
I feel a little better. There were some good stretches. ORU is a pretty solid team, they just don't quit. We played good defense when needed to keep the lead and won the game. Against Arizona, I will feel better if Rob will not get in foul trouble. We will need to score more than 70 to beat Arizona, hope we will drain them.

ZagsGoZags
12-16-2011, 03:03 AM
feel slightly better
would like to see Spangler get more minutes, he is already well rounded in his skills

I am rooting for Carter so much. He cares so much and gladly takes a beating to draw fouls and drive. But he chockes because he is trying so hard, it seems.

I think it would be nice for him to be on a lesser team and get to play many more minutes, I think it would calm him down.

a win is a win, and I thought we would win by more, but I feel a little better.

Imagine the alternative

DCZag
12-16-2011, 04:50 AM
We WON - so I obviously feel better than if we had lost. This team is a work in progress with an important part finally eligible this weekend, GLE.

Now, if we can fix the freakin' TOs....

raise the zag
12-16-2011, 05:02 AM
This team is a work in progress with an important part finally eligible this weekend, GLE.


does that make us GLEE for GLE?

btw, a quick side-note: Oral Roberts is, by far, the best team we've played this season, not named a Big10 school.

They would beat most teams we've faced, imo, especially with Bell-Holter(16pts, 5rebs) just returning to the lineup. We'll be seeing them in our office pools soon enough...not sure I'd pick against 'em either.

Reborn
12-16-2011, 05:41 AM
Better! Good to see Sam Dower have a really good game. I loved his attitude and hustle, We needed him last night badly. I was really amazed at how well Bell guarded Morrison. Good coaching job by Few to take Hart off os him and put Bell on him. I liked how the Zags passed the ball more and had a lot of assists. I think they're a better team when they play like that. I also love Elias' energy, hustle, and more of a team player attitude. I thought Spangler looked really good. And finally I will get to see Landry-Edi play on Saturday. :clap: WE have had to wait a long time.

The poor free throw shooting by Stockton and the turnovers really irritate me. Stockton's shooting technique at the foul line is horrendous. No follow through, and he is not shooting with his wrist and fingertips and legs. For a great shooter like Stockton to miss this many free throws the last two games just boggles my mind.

bigblahla
12-16-2011, 06:08 AM
We won an ugly game after two 7 point losses so we have to feel good about that. I still believe that this team is good enough not great but good enough to get the job done most of the time.

A win over Arizona in the Battle in Seattle would be a big boost. We can play with the Wildcats and beat them but as others have stated the TO's need to be drastically reduced.

Guy Landry Edi, we will now have a view of the team that will take us through the rest of the season. I think we just got better.

Just my opinion.

Go!! Zags!!!

SunDevilGolfZag
12-16-2011, 06:10 AM
The whole foundation of this successful program was the Fitz demand to "Play Hard, Play Smart." I pretty much only see the first half of this equation with this team, but I'm confident the "play smart" will come.

raise the zag
12-16-2011, 06:17 AM
I don't know what ya'll been smokin', yet I always feel better after a WIN. If you somehow feel 'worse', I feel sorry for you. While we displayed numerous 'areas of improvement', namely turnovers, I celebrated the win and now turning my mind to Arizona. If we lose the next one, then I'll feel 'worse', until then, no way. Victories are hard to come by in D1 hoops and none should be taken for granted. We only get to celebrate 20, maybe 25 times per season. Enjoy this win, albeit the warts, and have fun with fact we came out on top last night. I thought the ORU game was one of the most enjoyable/entertaining this season, my Wife said the same.

cjm720
12-16-2011, 06:57 AM
About the same...Few rotated players a lot tonight. Very concerned for Carter's confidence. TO's continue to be a problem. Offensive rebounding is attrocious. Glad to see more 3 point attempts by our guards. Glad Bell's getting a ton of minutes.

We'll only get stronger as the season progresses...glad it's not March now.

PS - can't wait to see how Guy can contribute!!!

U Zig, I Zag
12-16-2011, 07:35 AM
Less confident. The team we have seen the last 3 games won't be able to beat AZ.

I am dumbfounded by our inability to pass the ball. It's really pathetic. We had some good assists but so many passes go awry it's not even funny. Watch a few other games on TV this weekend, you WILL NOT see a team struggle with this concept as much as the Zags do.

WallaWallaZag
12-16-2011, 07:44 AM
happy with the win but was hoping to see a little better performance overall...especially some improvement in taking care of the ball. oral roberts is a good team, but i also watched a decent but not great oklahoma team beat them with ease about a week ago. their guards really are not that good or even super athletic, so for us to continue to struggle with turnovers was disappointing.

bartruff1
12-16-2011, 07:59 AM
I don't know what ya'll been smokin', yet I always feel better after a WIN. If you somehow feel 'worse', I feel sorry for you. While we displayed numerous 'areas of improvement', namely turnovers, I celebrated the win and now turning my mind to Arizona. If we lose the next one, then I'll feel 'worse', until then, no way. Victories are hard to come by in D1 hoops and none should be taken for granted. We only get to celebrate 20, maybe 25 times per season. Enjoy this win, albeit the warts, and have fun with fact we came out on top last night. I thought the ORU game was one of the most enjoyable/entertaining this season, my Wife said the same. but I think his question was about how this game affects your confidence toward the game on Sat...I don't smoke in any case, but most of us enjoy a win ...

raise the zag
12-16-2011, 08:15 AM
but I think his question was about how this game affects your confidence toward the game on Sat...I don't smoke in any case, but most of us enjoy a win ...

Well, if that's the case, I've stated numerous times over the past week I think we'll win on Saturday as well. While I realize we won't win every game, I'm always confident in the team to perform well.

Again, it doesn't always happen either, but in my neck of the woods, you must first have the confidence you will win to actually pull off the win.

This is a circular argument and not one way of thinking is necessarily better than the other.

I admit, and have posted several times -- even started a thread -- about our shortcomings or weaknesses, again TO's, yet the question of this thread was, "do you feel better or worse following last night's win?". I, for one, feel better until we lose and you also have an opinion in how you interpret this question.

I feel I answered the question fairly and maybe we could all use a shift in the way we think about the team sometimes. We could have turned the ball over 40 times and I'd still be confident we'll win the next game and to be honest with you, I hope the Coaches and Players feel the same way.

We should hopefully learn from our wins and our losses, imo.

bartruff1
12-16-2011, 08:20 AM
Raise the flag..you might go back and read his entire post ...not the title...some times I go ready ....shoot....aim.....moving on...no problem.

hooter73
12-16-2011, 08:45 AM
My Boss walked in the office this morning and said "even when they win, they stink." I dont believe that, they're learning and it might be ugly but we are seeing some area of improvement somewhere every game.

Tonight the guards were spreading the floor for the first time and I really liked seeing that.

Spangler learns every time he is on the floor and even just a few minutes a game go a long way in his development.

I dont think there is one person not rooting for Carter... but yikes.

Dower needs to brush off those last games and use this as his foundation to grow from.

Rob and Harris are playing ok but lots of lack luster for me anyway.

Over all yeah Im encouraged. Now if they dont regress against AZ.

04ZagFan
12-16-2011, 09:09 AM
For me, they still aren't passing the "Eye test." Hope it's because of youth, but man! I have to agree with Hooters boss....

bartruff1
12-16-2011, 09:12 AM
Hooter's boss is a dick....

Baldwinzag
12-16-2011, 09:13 AM
Hooter's boss is a dick....

:lmao:

hooter73
12-16-2011, 09:41 AM
:agreed:

He just told our employees Union this himself yesterday.

:)

BobZag
12-16-2011, 10:44 AM
Anymore I just roll with the perpetual shortcomings and be glad we win. I've given up harping on the same flaws year after year. Go Zags.

Hooter needs Jennifer Aniston as a Horrible Boss. :D

DixieZag
12-16-2011, 10:50 AM
Anymore I just roll with the perpetual shortcomings and be glad we win. I've given up harping on the same flaws year after year. Go Zags.

Hooter needs Jennifer Aniston as a Horrible Boss. :D

I was thrilled with the win, ORU was not USC-Upstate, I am just wondering if given the performance you are more or less confident going against AZ.

After a night to think about it, given that it was finals week, 2 days before AZ, dead crowd, bad shooting night, an opponent that played pretty smart and a win with points spread all over the floor, I think that I am feeling better about the AZ game. I really hope that the crowd in Seattle is a good one - any word on ticket sales?

Baldwinzag
12-16-2011, 10:52 AM
Hooter needs Jennifer Aniston as a Horrible Boss. :D

I've had to watch that movie at least 3 times to try & figure out what was so "horrible" about her managerial style ;). Still haven't found it...maybe another viewing?

Give me all the nitrous oxide you want -- I'll take my chances if she's my Dentist.

kitzbuel
12-16-2011, 10:59 AM
I still believe that this team is good enough not great but good enough to get the job done most of the time.



http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-UsRHPZ2vN38/TpxkBkqQUeI/AAAAAAAAAqo/TbY44SjQ1n4/s320/stuart_smalley-7943.gif

Bogozags
12-16-2011, 05:29 PM
Yeah, pretty much this. The turnovers are what's driving me nuts.

I was admitted to the local asylum, because of the TO's. We had 17 of them, eight more than ORU, which if we only scored on half of those possessions, equates to about 8-12 more points. It is so sad that we give away so many possessions...yes, we are young but if we cannot reduce these TOs sooner than later, it could carry into conference play...I'm keeping my fingers are crossed!

RenoZag
12-16-2011, 05:36 PM
Interesting that you feel that way as I concur. . .
Have not ruled out a victory this Saturday but it will be another challenging, nail-biting game.


The ORU game left me feeling things have regressed. . .TO's, Rob's inability to kick it out once he gets double or triple teamed. . .a whole host of stuff that seemed out of synch. . .I had the sense they were fatigued ( from finals ? ) and not making good choices. . .

Hope they bring their "A" game to Seattle Saturday. . .

BigTymeONIONS
12-16-2011, 06:28 PM
I was discouraged because, at times, I felt we were playing well and starting to pull away but we were only up 2 or 4. Just too many turnovers and empty possessions.

john montana
12-17-2011, 08:30 AM
I feel worse...didn't think they looked good at all. Carter....wow. Dower rested on the same stuff he feasted on last year, which no one in our league will give him. When rob leaves the floor the team looks lost.

That said, loving bell and pangos and what they will be in two years. I wish bell would be more aggressive in attacking the basket.

Zag79
12-17-2011, 09:38 AM
feel slightly better
would like to see Spangler get more minutes, he is already well rounded in his skills

I am rooting for Carter so much. He cares so much and gladly takes a beating to draw fouls and drive. But he chockes because he is trying so hard, it seems.

I think it would be nice for him to be on a lesser team and get to play many more minutes, I think it would calm him down.

a win is a win, and I thought we would win by more, but I feel a little better.

Imagine the alternative

Carter needs more minutes, period. You cant get back on track playing 10-15 minutes. Bell played 37 minutes against ORU, way too many for someone scoring 6 points even if they are playing good defense. Carter had as many points and rebounds in half the time, and we pulled away both times he came in. This team is so much better with a confident Carter than it is now, got to give him minutes and let him pick it up where he left off last year. The game itself was a plus to me. How is beating a team like ORU not a positive thing no matter how you spin it? What next, beating Arizona won't be good enough?

bballbeachbum
12-17-2011, 10:43 AM
Carter needs more minutes, period. You cant get back on track playing 10-15 minutes. Bell played 37 minutes against ORU, way too many for someone scoring 6 points even if they are playing good defense. Carter had as many points and rebounds in half the time, and we pulled away both times he came in. This team is so much better with a confident Carter than it is now, got to give him minutes and let him pick it up where he left off last year. The game itself was a plus to me. How is beating a team like ORU not a positive thing no matter how you spin it? What next, beating Arizona won't be good enough?

hope MC rhythms the first good look he sees today and drains it like he can, could do wonders. needs a turnaround game, breakthrough game, get himself into this season feeling right. it's interesting to me how he made open looks last year, which forced teams to gameplan that to take it away, and now he's being dared to make the open 3!

good points you make. GBJ has become a favorite already, no poke at him even kind of in any way, but believe having BOTH Bell and MC going is the way to go of course, not one or the other. Sam busted out last game. we'll see

GO ZAGS!!!

Zag79
12-18-2011, 12:10 AM
Today was a perfect example of needing Carter, I'm confused on the lack of playing time. He played well for the minimal time he was in, grabbed three boards and got to the line a couple times without a single TO. Yet, he sat the pine while I watched our freshman struggle almost to exhaustion. How much better could we be if the frosh rested a little more, considering it's a long season? Letting Carter ride the bench when he is playing better, while watching the youngsters struggle seems to be the least bit beneficial. A confident MC needs time to find his groove, freshman playing 35+ minutes and shooting 3 for 20 with 5 rebounds between them doesnt justify him not getting the chance. Then again I'm an arm chair coach. :) As for today, im really glad Elias was in beast mode! Sam looked good, Rob was strong, and we rebounded well. We almost blew a good Arizona team out of the gym so I'm impressed. The use of his bench (more Stockton and Carter) would have finished it off. On to Butler, go Zags!