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jazzdelmar
12-13-2011, 05:18 AM
Rx for the season: play the kids, take your lumps. Give Pangos, Bell, Spangler, Edi all the time they can handle; spot Stocks and maybe Keita amply; rely on Sacre for a steady 12-7 and hope Harris shows up every 3d or 4th game. Reap benefits next year.

VaBeachZAG
12-13-2011, 05:47 AM
It sounds like you have given up on this season already. Granted, the current version of the Zags is not looking too good at the moment, but I still remain hopeful for this season. Nevertheless, I agree that any upper classmen who are not performing (I will not mention names, but you can guess who I mean), should ride the pine and give the youngins' game experience. As a side note, given Dower's lackluster performance so far this year the coaching staff had better get a couple of very talented bigs from somewhere pronto, just in case Dower doesn't come around. Here's hoping we can manage to keep our conference and tournament streaks alive one more year, but its going to be very hard in a mildly resurgent WCC.

Reborn
12-13-2011, 06:26 AM
The good news is that the season is just beginning. And I'm not discouraged because the two games we lost were to really good teams. I think Michigan State is a top ten team and Illinois a top 15 (at least at home). Illinois has yet to be tested on the road so we will see. As Tom Izzo said, the Spartans had already played at Duke this year (and lost by 4) and had also played against UNC infront of the President of the USA and most of the sports world watching on TV. GU did not have the normal 7-10 point advantage that they would normally get at home.

Gonzaga is starting two Freshmen now, and although both of these guys are really good, they will get lots better this year. And the learning curve for them is going to be greater then it would be for new starters who are starters, like Leonard for Illinois and Appling for Michigan State who are both Sophomores. I've heard it said many times that Freshmen are not Freshmen by the end of the year.

And we must remember that we have been playing without Landry-Edi. Our losses have been very close, and I think it is a fair argument to say that we may have won them both with Landry-Edi. I like Mike Hart, and the kid gives it 100% every game, but he is not good enough to be a starter against teams like Michigan State and Illinois.

So I feel it's way to early to give a true assessment of the Zags so far. More than any other year since 2000 we should not assess the true quality of this team until late February-early March. We have two Freshmen and a JUCCO transfers. And we must also give Guy time to develop; so let's be patient with him too. I think that this team believes in themselves. I think the coaches believe in them. And we fans must continue to believe in them. I know I do. This ship is NOT even sinking. It's a ship that not completely built yet. We'll see the Zag ship sailing soon enough. So, keep the faith!

jazzdelmar
12-13-2011, 06:31 AM
not giving up on the season at all.....imo, if we play the kids theres a better chance the team will gell by march than if we cut and paste with underperforming returnees in the hope their lightbulbs will go off. the future isnt now, but it isnt 2012 either, its march. besides, i much more enjoy rooting for the kids, warts and all, than some of the older guys.

kclubfounder
12-13-2011, 06:34 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXYZsehtWOQ&feature=related

TacomaZAG
12-13-2011, 06:43 AM
It's all about March.

IMHO, after reading a lot of posts on this board and listening to talk from the players and staff, the success or failure of a season depends on winning the WCC and how far we go in the Dance. Obviously, we have to get there, and if we don't the season will be considered a huge failure, but the whole season comes down to the first weekend in the Dance. If we win two, get to the Sweet 16 and maybe beyond, the season is considered a success, if not, it is considered a failure. So, the season can realistically come down to a single possession, or a handful of them. Extremely small margin for error, but that's the way it is.

So, like Jazz and others have said, play the kids and hope for the best. Rise and fall as they kick it out of bounds and then follow it with a great play. I would add that Spangler could use some minutes as well, as there will come a time when we need his big body and rebounding.

November and December lessons bear fruit in March.............

Go ZAGS

bartruff1
12-13-2011, 06:48 AM
It is painfully obvious that trying to win the next game and build toward the future has not worked. Hell, anyone can get lucky and win 300 games over twelve seasons. He just never seems to learn what it takes to be successful ....

Reborn
12-13-2011, 07:18 AM
not giving up on the season at all.....imo, if we play the kids theres a better chance the team will gell by march than if we cut and paste with underperforming returnees in the hope their lightbulbs will go off. the future isnt now, but it isnt 2012 either, its march. besides, i much more enjoy rooting for the kids, warts and all, than some of the older guys.

Great Jazz! I'm glad you're hangin in there. I'm with ya. I'm still in favor of playing Dower a few more games, but if he doesn't show vast improvement I'm more infavor of bringing Olynyk back then I am in player Spangler. This is really a huge year for Gonzaga because it's the year that we can tie UCLA for the most consecutive years of winning the conference title. I am totally positive that Few knows that, and he is going to do whatever is needed to win that conference this year.

ZagMan in Philly
12-13-2011, 07:37 AM
Still too early to make any drastic change to the lineup, perhaps with Edi in the lineup, he will make everyone plays better, so we just have to wait and see. I am optimist that we could go 4-1 the next 5 games, and all will be good again in Zags land. Beat Oral Roberts will be the first step, and we must win. Go Zags!

gamagin
12-13-2011, 08:16 AM
Rx for the season: play the kids, take your lumps. Give Pangos, Bell, Spangler, Edi all the time they can handle; spot Stocks and maybe Keita amply; rely on Sacre for a steady 12-7 and hope Harris shows up every 3d or 4th game. Reap benefits next year.

when you can restart this campaign. your work, staying 6-8 months ahead of yourself, is complete. have a nice off season.

DADoZAG
12-13-2011, 09:11 AM
not giving up on the season at all.....imo, if we play the kids theres a better chance the team will gell by march than if we cut and paste with underperforming returnees in the hope their lightbulbs will go off. the future isnt now, but it isnt 2012 either, its march. besides, i much more enjoy rooting for the kids, warts and all, than some of the older guys.

While I just hate to agree with Jazz, ...I have to agree with Jazz.

Sure GL-E will likely have a positive impact, but Spangler already could have.

This type of concept isnít ďgiving up on the season.Ē Itís just a different tact, a tact used by some very good D1 coaches. Itís called team development. Look at what Butler has done the past few seasons, especially last year. Look at how Izzo operates. He knew what he had for a team when he agreed to play both Duke and NC to start the year. Wam bam, two losses. 0 and 2 to start the year.

Iíd rather lose to a decent Oral Roberts team, if it means the ZAGS are more than prepared for a good BYU team. Iíd rather get blown out by a good Arizona team, if it means that by the time the ZAGS get to San Diego, itís a blow out for the good guys.

What kills is bad losses. The kind of bad loses the ZAGS have had most years during the WCC season. The kind of bad loses that can be prevented by playing an inverted schedule and building a strong team using the players with the most upside even if it means a few losses to those good OOC teams.

Doing more with less built a program that weíre all proud of, a program that a good percentage of the nation envies. Doing more with more will not only sustain this program, but continue its growth, legitimize it, make it the envy of the WHOLE nation.

Coach Few has given ZAGS fans something that was unimaginable to most of us just a decade ago. Perhaps heís given Spokane more regional pride than any single individual. If nothing more ever comes from the ZAGS, Iím cool with that.

But itís obvious that Mark Few is not. He wants the final four. It seems that most posters on this board want the final four as well. Jazzís suggestion is to take the risk and change the system that built the program. Jazzís suggestion is to follow the lead of numerous D1 coaches and stop worrying about over all winning percentage. Jazzís suggestion is to worry about winning percentage in March not December.

Over all winning percentage is ego, winning in March is money, winning in April is nirvana.

ZAG UP!

Schmitty
12-13-2011, 09:57 AM
Rx for the season: play the kids, take your lumps. Give Pangos, Bell, Spangler, Edi all the time they can handle; spot Stocks and maybe Keita amply; rely on Sacre for a steady 12-7 and hope Harris shows up every 3d or 4th game. Reap benefits next year.

Something tells me we will see this play out in the near future.. like in the next 2 weeks.. Few will not tolerate lack of effort, not for a second, nor would I if I were the coach. This being said, my guess (and thats all it is) is that we just might see this come Thursday night, starting with a new rotation of post players... It wouldnt hurt, and it might just light a fire under the shorts of the guys that seem to need it right now.

jazzdelmar
12-13-2011, 10:26 AM
But itís obvious that Mark Few is not. He wants the final four. It seems that most posters on this board want the final four as well. Jazzís suggestion is to take the risk and change the system that built the program. Jazzís suggestion is to follow the lead of numerous D1 coaches and stop worrying about over all winning percentage. Jazzís suggestion is to worry about winning percentage in March not December.

Over all winning percentage is ego, winning in March is money, winning in April is nirvana.



its amazing how some posters get it and some just attack a comment out of habit and past grievances. sigh.

gu03alum
12-13-2011, 10:27 AM
But itís obvious that Mark Few is not. He wants the final four. It seems that most posters on this board want the final four as well. Jazzís suggestion is to take the risk and change the system that built the program. Jazzís suggestion is to follow the lead of numerous D1 coaches and stop worrying about over all winning percentage. Jazzís suggestion is to worry about winning percentage in March not December.

Over all winning percentage is ego, winning in March is money, winning in April is nirvana.



its amazing how some posters get it and some just attack a comment out of habit and past grievances. sigh.

gu03alum is surprised to see Jazz speaking in the third person.

jazzdelmar
12-13-2011, 10:30 AM
gu03alum is surprised to see Jazz speaking in the third person.



very funny, gu. i was hoping none of my most virulent critics would notice the change.....good catch....

BC1210is
12-13-2011, 10:46 AM
Haha, good stuff from both Jazz and his critics. It is amazing how much disrespect Jazz gets when he obviously has so much knowledge and experience around both GU and CBB in general.
Very hard to argue with Jazz most of the time. I still want to see Dower at times this season. How are players like Dower and Harris getting worse? I thought Daniels was to be the low post guru?

LongIslandZagFan
12-13-2011, 11:41 AM
not giving up on the season at all.....imo, if we play the kids theres a better chance the team will gell by march than if we cut and paste with underperforming returnees in the hope their lightbulbs will go off. the future isnt now, but it isnt 2012 either, its march. besides, i much more enjoy rooting for the kids, warts and all, than some of the older guys.

Based on your history Jazz... The OP came off exactly how people saw it. That's the problem with rampant negativity... People just assume you are being you and take things the way the expect you to be regardless of how you meant it.

hooter73
12-13-2011, 11:49 AM
You can want in one hand...

This is not the December freak out, people have been saying it for years, Few is at his limit. He is a very good mid level coach and what he did to create this program is amazing... but he is at his ceiling as far as coaching a team goes. Its the same stuff for ten years now always hoping for different results. Few will beat UCLAs record, no reason we cant, but as far as going farther than one or two games in the tourney its just not going to happen. The boosters, alumni and ticket holders will not allow this same level plateau to continue for another ten years if they indeed do want to see more.

LongIslandZagFan
12-13-2011, 12:01 PM
Really?

So what you are saying is Few isn't Coach K, Roy Wlliams, Izzo, etc that have achieved as many wins in the tourney over the last 10+ years. Thanks for your input. Not treating Few as God... But you are on drugs if you think that caliber of coach would come to GU with the facilities that they have and at Few's salary. Actually it borders on laughable.

webspinnre
12-13-2011, 12:08 PM
Really?

So what you are saying is Few isn't Coach K, Roy Wlliams, Izzo, etc that have achieved as many wins in the tourney over the last 10+ years. Thanks for your input. Not treating Few as God... But you are on drugs if you think that caliber of coach would come to GU with the facilities that they have and at Few's salary. Actually it borders on laughable.


This is the key point. I have no problem saying Few isn't K, Roy or Izzo, but none of those guys are coming here. The real question is if it would be possible to get coaches better than Few here, and I'm about 99.8% certain the answer to that is no. Yes, it can be frustrating at times, but its important to take a step back and be honest about what we are, and what we aren't.

DixieZag
12-13-2011, 12:34 PM
This is slightly hilarious. We have won 5 and lost two in a row. The two we have lost to are Illinois at their place (where we weren't exactly blown out) and we lost to Michigan State in the Kennel when a player who was shooting 20something% from the three went 11 for 13.

Sacre and Harris just had one of their worst games of the year - against a team that is notorious for playing physical, interior defense, the refs were calling NOTHING underneath, hence the bigger, more physical team was at an advantage and we lost by 7 when we turned it over 20 times.

OMGZ! Lets throw out 12 years of knowledge!!! I know that is not what you are really saying, you are saying let the young guys loose - who says that our young guys are better than E and G? I too want to see Spangler and I think we will. But, declaring that Few has a ceiling b/c we lost the last two is just absurd. Remember last year? We lost 3 straight in the WCC!!!!

Then, with a team that wasn't loaded with talent, we made a Big East team that beat UNC and Duke look like a high school team in the tournament. I was never prouder of our guys after that game. Then we got "Jimmered" - and the next game, "Jimmer" coughed up a hairball.

Look, I thought we got out game coached against MSU, I thought we needed to go outside instead of pounding the middle. But if Green picks up his 4 or 5 foul at the 10 minute mark, Few looks like a genius and maybe we win. All this is hindsight. The point is, why the panic after losing two straight to 2 very good teams? Both teams said they played their best game of the year against us?

BTW - WSU is playing really well of late, we blew them out of our gym (yes, then let them back in, but still - we beat em pretty bad), they are not nearly as bad as advertised.

maynard g krebs
12-13-2011, 12:49 PM
What no one has mentioned is that, in starting Bell and Pangos, Few is already fulfilling a large part of Jazz's rx. In the last decade and a half, how many fr have started early in the season? I can think of Stepp, Bouldin, Gray, and I think Gray alternated w/ Downs as a starter. Even Adam didn't start, and only played 20 min. For Few to start a pair of fr guards together is a major change. The fact that he is slow to change is both his strength and his weakness (Adam) but the record speaks for itself.

Few has said we'll see lots of Edi, and DS already plays a lot, so that fulfills at least 80% of the player minutes requested in the OP.

As to the play of some of the vets, i.e. Carter, Dower, Harris: playing with new guards is an adjustment that takes some time. The passes might be timed a bit differently or arrive in a slightly different spot that they're used to. Steven Gray didn't get near the respect that Bouldin did on this board, but his sr stats were just as good, and IMO the above players all benefited from his passing and the defensive attention he drew. Carter especially. Great as second fiddle, struggles as the lead guy. I, along with others, expected more from him early, but there's no reason he can't do what he did last year.

This team is a work in progress. For all its current warts, it is better than last year's at the same point, and when the new players are completely integrated, the ceiling for improvement is higher.

hooter73
12-13-2011, 12:59 PM
Nope, no way we get better than Few to come here and Im surprised he has stayed after his initial success. All Im saying is that he is at his limit of coaching, recruiting and/or inspiring players. If you dont like what we have now or have had up till now, dont get your hopes up for more to come.

LongIslandZagFan
12-13-2011, 01:02 PM
Nope, no way we get better than Few to come here and Im surprised he has stayed after his initial success. All Im saying is that he is at his limit of coaching, recruiting and/or inspiring players. If you dont like what we have now or have had up till now, dont get your hopes up for more to come.

Don't necessarily agree with that. The reality is that much of the tourney comes down to luck of the draw and individual matchups. There is no reason whatsoever that any zag team in the tourney couldn't make the deepest of runs depending on how the draw works out for them.

Once the first one is made... Doors open up... Big time.

jazzdelmar
12-13-2011, 01:07 PM
LIZF, you seem to be running my thread..:).....no prob, enjoy. hey, if the manhattan jaspers keep improving you may be rid of me yet....happy holidays, im flying to the apple thursday. see u around.....

sonuvazag
12-13-2011, 01:12 PM
The starting freshmen backcourt is already a reality. Many great college coaches struggled for 20 or more years to earn their first national championship.

One thing I have learned in my 33 years on this planet is you will probably be wrong if you set "realistic" limits on Gonzaga. From JS's unlikely rise to NBA HOFer, to the Elite 8, to the Sweet 16 streak, to Adam Morrison, to consistent top-100 recruits, to now.

Gonzaga is like Tebow--an anomaly. Don't peg me for a guy who sees a NC as realistic. I have no idea how to define realistic when it comes to Gonzaga.

bartruff1
12-13-2011, 01:14 PM
Jesus, if Few was the limiting factor, why do the BCS teams want him... get real, this is Spokane...this is Gonzaga...this is not a major media center...no one has ever accomplished what he has at a mid major and probably no one ever will.. I have been in some of the most remote places in the world and if I have a Gonzaga cap on....someone will come up and tell me what a great program we have and how we " do it right " and will ask why Few stays... so show just a little gratitude and enjoy a very special moment in sports .....

hooter73
12-13-2011, 01:15 PM
Don't necessarily agree with that. The reality is that much of the tourney comes down to luck of the draw and individual matchups. There is no reason whatsoever that any zag team in the tourney couldn't make the deepest of runs depending on how the draw works out for them.

Once the first one is made... Doors open up... Big time.

we dont get better seed in Tourney no matter who we play or if we win every out of conference game anyway :)

hooter73
12-13-2011, 01:17 PM
Jesus, if Few was the limiting factor, why do the BCS teams want him... get real, this is Spokane...this is Gonzaga...this is not a major media center...no one has ever accomplished what he has at a mid major and probably no one ever will.. I have been in some of the most remote places in the world and if I have a Gonzaga cap on....someone will come up and tell me what a great program we have and how we " do it right " and will ask why Few stays... so show just a little gratitude and enjoy a very special moment in sports .....
Who ya talkin at dude?

No one wants Few to go anywhere, All Im saying is that with 10 years of a trend, dont expect anything different.

04ZagFan
12-13-2011, 01:19 PM
Who ya talkin at dude?

No one wants Few to go anywhere, All Im saying is that with 10 years of a trend, dont expect anything different.

I tend to agree... We could get lucky and make a final four, but I don't count on it. Of course, this kind of talk gets us "ignored" and attacked on this board. God forbid you allow differing opinions on a message board.

DADoZAG
12-13-2011, 01:42 PM
This team is a work in progress. For all its current warts, it is better than last year's at the same point, and when the new players are completely integrated, the ceiling for improvement is higher.

Agreed MGK. For some of us, this is about a change of strategy, not a change in coaching personnel or even abandonment of any player.

Mark Few is a young man. He spent the first several years of his “sporting” life focused on a different game with a significant different strategy. Add that fact to all the other considerations, such as the size and location of the school, the public opinion of the league for recruiting purposes, and, maybe most important, the limited time as an assistant coach (relatively speaking) and this guy comes close to walking on water because of what he’s done. It’s amazing that some limit his future, the program’s future due to the factors he’s already overcome.

But, for some reason, it seems Coach Few feels he can’t afford to lose to anyone, anytime. Always more worried about winning early in the year than preparing a team to win late in the year (my interpretation).

Perhaps those around him do the same thing as many on this board after a loss? Perhaps he is under the impression that anything but maintaining the 80% winning percentage will be his demise? Is it simply he is afraid of losing, hates losing, fears falling off the mountain top he’s built?

Yes it’s early. Yes the team is a work in progress. That’s all understood by many of us. Perhaps the change you point out will continue but it seems some of what you post is more of an excuse than anything else. You yourself have posted that such change is needed (albeit not directly). Even the local press, normally somewhat a$$ kissing, is starting to mention it.

I’m not a D1 coach as has been posted by many, and I don’t have your or many other’s obvious expertise and knowledge. So perhaps Jazz and I are all wet. Perhaps there are too many times I use the word “Perhaps” in this post.

Perhaps I’ll have to print this and eat it at the end of the year.

That’ll be just fine by me.

ZAG UP!

bartruff1
12-13-2011, 02:25 PM
Who ya talkin at dude?

No one wants Few to go anywhere, All Im saying is that with 10 years of a trend, dont expect anything different. I am talking to you. I never suggested you wanted him to go...I read your post to say that the progam was stuck at this level because of him, if that is what you intended...I disagree. I think there are other factors. I will add that I don't expect anything different and will be damn happy for the program to stay at this level and just maybe...just maybe.... something real special might happen..but I am not expecting it to.... as it would require a great deal of luck..... considering the competition.

hooter73
12-13-2011, 03:15 PM
I am talking to you. I never suggested you wanted him to go...I read your post to say that the progam was stuck at this level because of him, if that is what you intended...I disagree. I think there are other factors. I will add that I don't expect anything different and will be damn happy for the program to stay at this level and just maybe...just maybe.... something real special might happen..but I am not expecting it to.... as it would require a great deal of luck..... considering the competition.

Cant disagree with a word you wrote. BTW didnt mean for the "who ya talkin to" to come off snarky. I get lost in these threads way too easily with whos who and side convos and all that lol.

maynard g krebs
12-13-2011, 04:05 PM
it seems some of what you post is more of an excuse than anything else.

ZAG UP!

One person's excuse is another person's explanation, I guess. Last year's team had veteran guards. This year's team has rookie guards. The rookies will be better than the previous veterans in time, hopefully by the end of the year. But, last year's veterans were more effective in running the system than this year's rookies are at this point. It looks to me like the team hasn't really meshed yet, in terms of making the instantaneous reads and reactions that lead to open shots. I don't believe that Carter, Harris, and Dower forgot how to play basketball since last year, or that they are lazy, indifferent, or unmotivated as has been suggested. I just think the team isn't in a good rhythm yet, because it is integrating new parts. If that's an excuse, so be it.

hooter73
12-14-2011, 07:05 AM
One person's excuse is another person's explanation, I guess. Last year's team had veteran guards. This year's team has rookie guards. The rookies will be better than the previous veterans in time, hopefully by the end of the year. But, last year's veterans were more effective in running the system than this year's rookies are at this point. It looks to me like the team hasn't really meshed yet, in terms of making the instantaneous reads and reactions that lead to open shots. I don't believe that Carter, Harris, and Dower forgot how to play basketball since last year, or that they are lazy, indifferent, or unmotivated as has been suggested. I just think the team isn't in a good rhythm yet, because it is integrating new parts. If that's an excuse, so be it.

I dont know, I remember yelling at the TV a lot last year about how our guards just couldnt score the dang ball. Gray, Goodson, Manny... they all went stupid cold at times too, then Stockton and Carter came on strong by the end. Of course by then Keita's butt cheeks were asleep in his chair from inactivity.

I'd give it to our crop of rookie guards this year over the veterans of last year if they were playing against each other.

Part of the frustration probably comes from each team peaking at a different time each year. With the flip flopped schedule where we play all the big games before our guys are even comfortable on the court yet they are set up for criticism by impatient fans.

bartruff1
12-14-2011, 07:19 AM
I have every reason to think it will turn out well. I hate to pick a favorite team, but IMHO, it is not what you accomplish, but what you overcome that is the measure of success . Last years team overcame a lot. They never quit.... they stuck together (far as I know) and they just persevered and I was very proud of them. I thought Steven just made a superhuman effort to keep the streaks alive...the refuse to lose....and he did...the win against St Johns was epic.

gamagin
12-14-2011, 08:29 AM
I have every reason to think it will turn out well. I hate to pick a favorite team, but IMHO, it is not what you accomplish, but what you overcome that is the measure of success . Last years team overcame a lot. They never quit.... they stuck together (far as I know) and they just persevered and I was very proud of them. I thought Steven just made a superhuman effort to keep the streaks alive...the refuse to lose....and he did...the win against St Johns was epic.

You are being a spoilsport, bart. Work ? earn p.t.? What kind of "prescription" is that ?

This is your chance to climb aboard the GU express and imagine with at least one great basketball mind. Think of the possibilities ?

I mean, think about it. When ET was at his most helpless, and the kids were crowding around him trying to protect and guard him, he suddenly perked up and could fly.

WE can do that, too. Just watch the movie for yourself if you don't believe me.

bartruff1
12-14-2011, 08:48 AM
And I suspect you , like me, are like the country song says " I'm not here for a long time, but for a good time, "....I read all the posts, but the one's I enjoy are the one's that are good natured and entertaining...I'll leave the coaching to Few....sorry about your puppy....:)

cjm720
12-14-2011, 09:51 AM
You can want in one hand...

This is not the December freak out, people have been saying it for years, Few is at his limit. He is a very good mid level coach and what he did to create this program is amazing... but he is at his ceiling as far as coaching a team goes. Its the same stuff for ten years now always hoping for different results. Few will beat UCLAs record, no reason we cant, but as far as going farther than one or two games in the tourney its just not going to happen. The boosters, alumni and ticket holders will not allow this same level plateau to continue for another ten years if they indeed do want to see more.

1) The UCLA record is by no way a given
2) "Few is at his limit" - wow, unbelievable. I'm guessing you thought Stockton couldn't play either. I have a feeling that 99% of coaches would love to be on his level.

hooter73
12-14-2011, 11:45 AM
1) The UCLA record is by no way a given
2) "Few is at his limit" - wow, unbelievable. I'm guessing you thought Stockton couldn't play either. I have a feeling that 99% of coaches would love to be on his level.

Not a"given" sure, but there is no reason our teams should not be able to keep wining the WCC even with BYU and the rise of the other teams levels... as that is Few's level :)

Oh and I was one of the first people two years ago to tell people to keep an eye on Stockton.